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Finest Wheat Cent Known (w/pics)

Nice article here from About.com: Coins. Finest Wheat Known

Can anyone confirm this MS69 actually IS the finest known?

What do you think of the grade? Closer to a 68 or a 70?

Enjoy!
«1

Comments

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    STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    IMO - closer to a 68 obverse, but it has such a hammered strike that the 69 seems fine.

    No reverse image though image
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    Comments on CCF lean toward a 68 also.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, once again, the general commentariat (those who pass judgement without actually being professional graders or having the coin in hand) knows better than the PCGS graders. It simply astounds me, knowing that everyone is better than the graders, why everyone keeps sending coins in to those very same graders for their expert opinion. Which is it??? It cannot be both ways. Cheers, RickO
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    PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    Ricko -

    never ceases to astound me as well ; opinions are like pie hole's - everyone's got one !
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    Astounds me too. I've lived 44 years and I still can't believe people have opinions.

    It'd be great if we were all robots and just said YES to anything and everything anybody ever said or did.

    image
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    krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I think I read that the coin came out of an original roll, and not all that long ago.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

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    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    I think I'd rather have a nice XF45 example. More character. image
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    LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162
    Finest RD example graded. Call me strange, but I prefer a little color to my Lincolns: image


    image
    image
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    I don't know about you guys, but I am ready for some new pics of the 69RD 1919.
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    JohnMabenJohnMaben Posts: 957 ✭✭✭
    Judging only by the picture, this coin really isn't full red....... too subdued with hints of olive and mustard brown.

    John Maben
    Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
    ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
    800-381-2646

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    speetyspeety Posts: 5,424
    Here's where the pics come from. Click around for more pics, i've been admiring the coins on that site for some time... Maybe Stewart will chime in?
    Want to buy an auction catalog for the William Hesslein Sale (December 2, 1926). Thanks to all those who have helped us obtain the others!!!

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think I read that the coin came out of an original roll, and not all that long ago. >>



    And that roll also produced a bunch of MS68's.

    Russ, NCNE
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    ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Comments on CCF lean toward a 68 also.

    IMO - closer to a 68 obverse, but it has such a hammered strike that the 69 seems fine.

    Judging only by the picture, this coin really isn't full red....... too subdued with hints of olive and mustard brown. >>



    With comments like these, I wonder why anyone would ever post one of their own coins on this forum.
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    clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615


    << <i>Judging only by the picture, this coin really isn't full red....... too subdued with hints of olive and mustard brown. >>



    Are you looking at the same coin the rest of us are? That is mint fresh in color and is 100% red.
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    << <i>

    << <i>I think I read that the coin came out of an original roll, and not all that long ago. >>



    And that roll also produced a bunch of MS68's.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    That kind of sounds like a urban legend, Grand Nagus.
    Trustworthy BST sellers: cucamongacoin
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    FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977
    Too bad Stewart is one of the "old timers" who doesn't post here anymore. It would be great to hear his two cents since he is an expert on lincolns and the owner of the coin. It leaves me in wonder how someone can post an image of what is clearly an amazing coin and everyone starts screaming "overgraded" based upon an image.
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    JohnMabenJohnMaben Posts: 957 ✭✭✭
    hmmm... wasn't looking for an argument clackamas.... maybe its my dell inspiron 1420, but what I see,
    the picture of the obverse in the very post in this thread, isn't even close to full red.

    John Maben
    Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
    ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
    800-381-2646

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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,570 ✭✭✭✭✭
    looks nicer than any 2008 lincolns i've seen!!

    wow!
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    fcfc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So, once again, the general commentariat (those who pass judgement without actually being professional graders or having the coin in hand) knows better than the PCGS graders. It simply astounds me, knowing that everyone is better than the graders, why everyone keeps sending coins in to those very same graders for their expert opinion. Which is it??? It cannot be both ways. Cheers, RickO >>



    probably because one of the key lessons to learn is not to trust
    the tpgs because if you do you will get burned.

    professional grader is an oxymoron. a professional opinion giver should
    be the correct title.

    it astounds me that people here still think grading a darn coin is some
    magical skill.

    as for the wheat 68-69, who cares. hands down the nicest i have
    ever seen that old.

    the amount of worship that goes on for these professionals and "awesome" dealers is laughable.
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart does post here occasionally still. Russ is right about the roll, and I'm sure Stewart would be glad to tell you about it if you asked him. It's in an OGH, so it's not "freshly" graded.

    I agree with you CCU. It's tough to post your own coins here. It takes thick skin.
    Doug
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i><< I think I read that the coin came out of an original roll, and not all that long ago. >>

    And that roll also produced a bunch of MS68's.

    Russ, NCNE >>

    That kind of sounds like a urban legend, Grand Nagus >>



    Nope, it's the real deal.

    Russ, NCNE
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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    isn't this the one that lakesammman had, that shylock photographed?

    that thing is absolutely hammered
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    <<...professional grader is an oxymoron. a professional opinion giver should...>>

    image

    It's also just plain fun to grade them ourselves versus what the TPG assign.

    I've got so many PCGS slabbed wheaties people might think I'm crazy. And they might be right, but the day to day variability from all TPG can add to the excitement - as long it doesn't cost too much $$$.
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    lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I never thought that Abe has
    so much detail in his beard
    as on that 1919

    LCoopie = Les
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    BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    When we grade from a picture and take

    umbrage with the TPG, we are just having

    fun.Our opinion does not impact the coins grade

    or the price. No one loses money with OHOs and

    did I say ,we were just having a bit of fun?

    OHO means "Our Humble Opinions"! image

    Folks around here get a touch grumpy ,when

    their shorts ride up on a hot, muggy day.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
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    JcarneyJcarney Posts: 3,154


    << <i>Nice article here from About.com: Coins. Finest Wheat Known

    Can anyone confirm this MS69 actually IS the finest known?

    What do you think of the grade? Closer to a 68 or a 70?

    Enjoy! >>



    Let's put it this way: I knew what coin I'd be looking at before I even clicked the link. The grade is irrelevant. That coin is the finest wheat cent in existence.
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no doubt it's probably the finest early wheat cent in existence, whatever than means, but to assume that there are no finer wheat cents (1909-1958) to be found at any time in the future is quite a stretch. Finest certified is a different animal. Finest in existence bar none? Would this 1919 be considered "finer" than say a 98% struck 1943 cent that had absolutely no visible hits under 10X magnification? Certainly more valuable, but we're talking finest and not most valuable. Though maybe to the public at large they are one and the same.

    Great coin regardless. When I saw the title in the article I was already saying what criteria are they using for all those rolls and bags of unsearched BU cents still out there? Considering that 1 out of those top 15 1919 cents made a 69 grade (others were 68) why couldn't one out of the 200 MS68 1943 Steel cents be a MS69? Surely one of those must stand out from the rest? I'd almost expect it to be so. One of them must be flawless or nearly so. Or does it make a difference that the MS69 grade is no longer given out to wheat cents (ie lesson learned from the MS69 Indian cent that spotted and the PF70 1963 Lincoln cent that turned in the holder).

    roadrunner

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    fcfc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Or does it make a difference that the MS69 grade is no longer given out to wheat cents (ie lesson learned from MS69 Indian cents that spot and PF70 1964 Lincoln cents that turn in the holder).

    roadrunner >>



    great post but it is this last bit i find most interesting.
    a tpg will not grade a 69 wheat cent anymore because they are afraid
    they might have to pay out in the end?

    what good are they then for grading super high end copper if they
    are already biased to begin with due to their not wanted to honor
    their guarantee?

    only in coins folks. only in coins.
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    ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>a tpg will not grade a 69 wheat cent anymore because they are afraid they might have to pay out in the end? >>



    Excellent. Another numismatic Urban Legend.
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    fcfc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>a tpg will not grade a 69 wheat cent anymore because they are afraid they might have to pay out in the end? >>



    Excellent. Another numismatic Urban Legend. >>



    if a legend what events brought it about.. that folks would think that
    a tpg would be leery to grade a coin 69-70 in fear of it turning?

    modern zinc lincolns that are superb and perfect getting 68-69s
    instead of what the bullion coins get of 69-70s?
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, it will have to remain an urban legend until they grade another MS69 pre-1959 Lincoln or Indian cent. Interesting that there can be 80 MS68FB 1939-d Mercs graded and even 14 of that date in MS69, but not a single MS69 steel cent out of 200 pieces?. I find that very odd. And not a single MS69 silver Rosy dime. Not a single MS69 silver Washington quarter or Walker half. It's all very odd indeed.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, it will have to remain an urban legend until they grade another MS69 pre-1959 Lincoln or Indian cent. Interesting that there can be 80 MS68FB 1939-d Mercs graded and even 14 of that date in MS69, but not a single MS69 steel cent out of 200 piece?. I find that very odd. And not a single MS69 silver Rosy dime. Not a single MS69 silver Washington quarter or Walker half. It's all very odd indeed. Urban legends indeed.

    roadrunner >>



    Don't forget, Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.

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    GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 18,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never seen Lincoln's beard look so bushy!!! image

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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, but the car Kennedy was travelling in when he was shot was a Ford Lincoln. Lincoln was shot in Ford's Theatre.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>the car Kennedy was travelling in when he was shot was a Ford Lincoln

    roadrunner >>



    A Ford Lincoln? Is that sort of like a Chevrolet Cadillac?
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Show me where I can find an auto-maker named Lincoln. What's the stock symbol? Probably can find it close to Cadillac.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I, for one, think it's absolutely gorgeous. I would be happy to buy that coin as a 69. Can't afford it, though...
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    PCGS Price Guide lists $10,500 for a 1919 Lincoln in MS68RD.

    Would that make this a $50,000 wheatie?

    image
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    veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    A spectacular Lincoln cent.

    Question for the experts:
    Aside from the smooth, mark-free surfaces and great color, is the strike exceptional for this date, or do many 1919s display this crisp detail?
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Somebody show us another pre-59 Lincoln that would merit a 69. Talk is cheap.
    Doug
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    robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WOW !!! What would you guys think this coin would fetch if it came up in an auction ???
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the mean time, enjoy this chance to see the Lincoln Cent the way that the coin's designer, Victor David Brenner, surely envisioned his design to look like!

    I think a supurb 1909 VDB MPL was what ol' Vic had in mind.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like this:

    imageimage
    Doug
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    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Exactly! The 1919, although a beauty, is a mere two-dimentional copy with added beard hairs compared to the real deal from 1909.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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    fcfc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Somebody show us another pre-59 Lincoln that would merit a 69. Talk is cheap. >>



    the pcgs registry set it a good place to start. after browsing that
    a bit i can see lincolns that are just as amazing and pristine.

    67-68 68-69... the differences are so minute you need a pie plate
    picture to pick out the differences...
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    MowgliMowgli Posts: 1,219


    << <i>With comments like these, I wonder why anyone would ever post one of their own coins on this forum. >>



    The very reason I have never and will never post a picture of my coins. It would be fun to share but as to getting anything valuable from people's "objective" opinions as to a coin's grade, I already know if it is between AU 50 and MS 63 or between VF 20 and XF 45. I already know that someone will think it has a rub or questionable toning. If the 1919 cent had not been declared an MS 69 at the beginning I'm pretty sure that someone would have it as low as an MS 65. I see no upside in asking this forum's opinion on an MS 69 coin
    In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
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    droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭
    Had someone other than Mr. Blay submitted this coin -- and don't tell me the graders had no clue whatsoever that the submitter was a big wheel at the very least, if not specifically identified by name -- would it have graded as high?
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
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    ambro51ambro51 Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To call that coin anything other than an MS69 just means that one has not looked at enough high grade Lincolns....or they have an element of prejudice in their thoughts.

    The only coin I can compare that to is my 2006 SF MS70RD. Though seperated by many decades, the grade standards still apply. You can admire the portrait, but you grade the fields. Im sure the graders did pick out the minute 'spot' or nick...or perhaps an element of discoloration from perfect mint state...but DAMN it is one good solid coin.++

    You wont find the best beard on a 1909 coin. You wil find it on both the 1915 and the 1916. The Matte Proofs show this up to the greatest degree, probably a function of the high pressure hydraulic press they were coined with, though the business strikes can look nearly as good. A lot of factors went into getting the high quality strike. The coining press must be set at a specific precise distance and the planchets must be made from quality metal that is annealed to the proper degree of hardness (softness). Its certainly possible some of these super strikes were done as the operator calibrated the press, maybe ran off some and then backed her off a little. Getting it to show up this detailed on a photo is partly the quality of the strike, and partly the quality of the photograph (and the angle of the light).

    But one would have to be IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIInsane to ever crack this out of that sainted OGH plastic, with the 69 on it.
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    STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    THIS MS 69 RED 1919 WILL BE ON EXHIBIT AT THE ANA ALONGSIDE AN MS 68 1919 MS68 RED AS WELL AS AN MS 67 RED 1919 LINCOLN CENT.I WILL ALSO BE THERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN COIN GRADES FOR YOURSELF.

    JOHN MABEN - YOUR COMMENT THAT THIS COIN IS NOT RED IS THE MOST A$$ANININE COMMENT THATEVER CAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH

    I PURCHASED THREE SHOTGUN ROLLS OF 1919 LINCOLN CENTS.THERE WERE ABOUT 70 COINS IN TOTAL.I BELIEVE ABOUT 35 COINS GRADED MS 67 RED, 13 COINS GRADED MS 68 RED, ANDTHE REST GRADED MS 66 RED.THERE HAD NEVER BEFORE BEEN AN MS 68 RED LINCOLN CENT GRADED BY PCGS.I RESUBMITTED FOUR MS 68 RED COINS ALONGSIDE THIS COIN AND IT CAME BACK AS MS 69 RED.

    MY FULL LINCOLN CENT COLLECTION AS WELL AS MY 1909 VDB MATTE PROOF LINCOLN GRADED PROOF 67 RED WILL BE ON EXHIBIT

    STEWART BLAY
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    seanqseanq Posts: 8,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>
    JOHN MABEN - YOUR COMMENT THAT THIS COIN IS NOT RED IS THE MOST A$$ANININE COMMENT THATEVER CAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH
    >>




    If you read his subsequent comment, John was looking at the photo of the 1909 cent posted to the thread, not the 1919 69RD (emphasis mine):

    maybe its my dell inspiron 1420, but what I see, the picture of the obverse in the very post in this thread, isn't even close to full red.


    Sean Reynolds

    (Edited to add the actual quote from John's post)
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor

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