Why did they add errors to the Dansco Buffalo album?!
ecichlid
Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭
Why did they add errors to the Dansco Buffalo album?!
I bought a new Buffalo album today to replace my old one. For some reason the slides turned color to a milky-white. My local dealer thought the slides were not original and he thought the best thing to do was to not use that album at all (PVC). I think I may have bought that album when it first came out. I'm still trying to figure out why this happend.
Anyway, I kept the old album and threw out the slides. I still transferred my coins to the new album and what do ya' know, the new album has a spot for the 3-legs and the 1918-D 8/7. I tell my dealer "They shouldn't have done that, errors should never be part of a set". he replies "Those are two very well known errors and it's not the complete set without them!".
In F-12 condition, the red book lists the 8/7 at $2,700. That's more then the whole rest of the set COMBINED. So, I guess if you purchase the 8/7 first, then your more than half-way done collecting the set.
Before, I felt like I was starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel trying to complete this set. Now, I feel like the lights have been turned out.
I bought a new Buffalo album today to replace my old one. For some reason the slides turned color to a milky-white. My local dealer thought the slides were not original and he thought the best thing to do was to not use that album at all (PVC). I think I may have bought that album when it first came out. I'm still trying to figure out why this happend.
Anyway, I kept the old album and threw out the slides. I still transferred my coins to the new album and what do ya' know, the new album has a spot for the 3-legs and the 1918-D 8/7. I tell my dealer "They shouldn't have done that, errors should never be part of a set". he replies "Those are two very well known errors and it's not the complete set without them!".
In F-12 condition, the red book lists the 8/7 at $2,700. That's more then the whole rest of the set COMBINED. So, I guess if you purchase the 8/7 first, then your more than half-way done collecting the set.
Before, I felt like I was starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel trying to complete this set. Now, I feel like the lights have been turned out.
There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
5
Comments
Also, most try to collect them to complete the set. Especially the 3 legger. Usually you have to stick it in one of the unmarked holes at the end.
Nonetheless, I wish that Dansco had not included these holes. Both are unintentional, and, IMO, do not belong in the album for the basic set. If one is an advanced collector of buffalo nickels, then one can decide whether to include these and the other overdates and varieties.
I wouldn't do it.
I like the Wisconsin extra leaf quarters but I wouldn't expect them to be part of the normal complete set. Same for the 55/55 lincoln.
All it is is some collectors/dealers whining to dansco that they should be there and dansco trying to say they are the premiere holding by having them.
I like the dansco holders but that would keep me from the buff one, if I collected buffs, just like their politicalness for the presidential album has kept me from getting that for my son.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
/ed
The Maddy Rae Collection
CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
Also, both of those dates are better off being in a slab than a dansco. I do have the three legger in NGC AU55, but there's no way I'd crack such a coin out to put in a dansco album. I have NO desire to get the 18/7-D either. But if I did, that sucker would be in a slab as long as I owned it.
I've been working on a buffalo nickel set now for about three years. For the bulk of that time, I had them in a newer model Dansco with the error ports. It bugged me to no end. I searched everywhere for a used older no-error dansco. I gave up. I even had a couple of dealers on the look out for one. I had a buy-price of $50 for a lightly used no-damage one. I finally happened across one at a show about four months ago. I bought it for a buck. The slides in it were crap, but the pages were as new as could be. I threw the slides away and replaced them with the slides from my old album. Problem solved.
-David
Just for fun. :-D
Edited to add: When I was using the album with the over date slot, I stuck in a nice semi-key in the 18/7-D slot. To designate that it wasnt the over date, I put it in backwards.
A long tradition -- The dealers that sell albums and also sell what used to be called "freaks" know that
collectors don't like looking at an album with empty holes, thus keeping the demand and prices high
for these varieties.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? >>
Very unfair question. By that logic, the Barber dime book should have a hole for the '94-s then. And the Morgan book a spot for the '95-p. How about a spot in the $20 libs for the 1849? As stated before, the Dansco books should have holes for the basic date/mm set, and any errors or overdates should be added at the discretion of the owner.
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? >>
Very unfair question. By that logic, the Barber dime book should have a hole for the '94-s then. And the Morgan book a spot for the '95-p. How about a spot in the $20 libs for the 1849? As stated before, the Dansco books should have holes for the basic date/mm set, and any errors or overdates should be added at the discretion of the owner. >>
Valid question. Overdates are not always rare. For example, the 1909/8 Saint is more common than the 1909 and only brings a small premium over the more common dates. The 1803/2 half eagle is a common date for the type. Also, your examples include a special coin made for friends of the mint director (1894-S dime), a coin that doesn't exist (business strike 1895 Morgan), and a pattern (1849 Lib double eagle). Overdate coins were mass produced and entered circulation for use in commerce.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? >>
Very unfair question. By that logic, the Barber dime book should have a hole for the '94-s then. And the Morgan book a spot for the '95-p. How about a spot in the $20 libs for the 1849? As stated before, the Dansco books should have holes for the basic date/mm set, and any errors or overdates should be added at the discretion of the owner. >>
Valid question. Overdates are not always rare. For example, the 1909/8 Saint is more common than the 1909 and only brings a small premium over the more common dates. The 1803/2 half eagle is a common date for the type. Also, your examples include a special coin made for friends of the mint director (1894-S dime), a coin that doesn't exist (business strike 1895 Morgan), and a pattern (1849 Lib double eagle). Overdate coins were mass produced and entered circulation for use in commerce. >>
How can you say that overdates were "mass produced"? There are no specific mintage numbers anywhere to back up that claim. If you could show me where it says XX,XXX amount of overdates were minted, I'll be happy to show you where it shows that indeed 12,000 1895 Morgan BUSINESS STRIKES were recorded as being minted. Also, millions of '64-d Peace dollars were minted, as were '73 Aluminum cents. Should we include those in Dansco books also?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? >>
Very unfair question. By that logic, the Barber dime book should have a hole for the '94-s then. And the Morgan book a spot for the '95-p. How about a spot in the $20 libs for the 1849? As stated before, the Dansco books should have holes for the basic date/mm set, and any errors or overdates should be added at the discretion of the owner. >>
Valid question. Overdates are not always rare. For example, the 1909/8 Saint is more common than the 1909 and only brings a small premium over the more common dates. The 1803/2 half eagle is a common date for the type. Also, your examples include a special coin made for friends of the mint director (1894-S dime), a coin that doesn't exist (business strike 1895 Morgan), and a pattern (1849 Lib double eagle). Overdate coins were mass produced and entered circulation for use in commerce. >>
How can you say that overdates were "mass produced"? There are no specific mintage numbers anywhere to back up that claim. If you could show me where it says XX,XXX amount of overdates were minted, I'll be happy to show you where it shows that indeed 12,000 1895 Morgan BUSINESS STRIKES were recorded as being minted. Also, millions of '64-d Peace dollars were minted, as were '73 Aluminum cents. Should we include those in Dansco books also? >>
When I said mass produced, I meant they were regular production dies and they were used until they wore out or broke or otherwise retired. Also, please show me an 1895 business strike Morgan dollar. It is believed that they were all melted under the Pittman act so it wouldn't make sense to include them in an album. As far as the 1964 peace dollar, I'll let you figure that one out yourself.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? >>
If you intend for your collection to include one each of every date/mint combination of a particular series minted for circulation, overdates are irrelevant regardless of how common or scarce they might be.
I don't consider varieties to be part of *my* sets, and I don't include any, even the easy ones like the 1960 small date Lincolns. But then, that's just me- determining what's complete for *your* sets is up to you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>My point is that obscure coins definately should NOT be included in basic DATE/MM sets. >>
I agree. But major varieties should be included. Some day they may put out a Top 100 VAM album which would make sense as long as there is sufficient demand for Dansco to make a profit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I know that if I were buying someone's complete set of buffalos that I would not expect the 18/7 or 3-leg to be included, would you? If you would, why not the 16/16 which, to me, is one of the neatest overdates you'll ever see?
Bottom line for me is that I don't like the overdates in the Danscos in such a way that it makes it look like you don't have a complete set. I prefer they put these slots on a separate page or at the end where they are an option.
<< <i>If you would, why not the 16/16 which, to me, is one of the neatest overdates you'll ever see? >>
Not an overdate. It's a doubled die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>If you would, why not the 16/16 which, to me, is one of the neatest overdates you'll ever see? >>
Not an overdate. It's a doubled die. >>
Unlike my previous responses to you Perry, this is not sarcastic. But are DD's considered "varieties" just like overdates? Afterall, arent they just both reworked dies anyway?
A basic date/MM set should not include unintentional errors and varieties like the 3-legged and the overdate. These spaces should be put at the end of the set, or better yet, on a separate page so the page could be removed if the collector doesn't want it. I can see including the intentional varieties, like the T-1 and T-2 1913s (or the No-Cents nickels, or the T-1 and T-2 Standing Liberty quarters) but not errors. Get them out!
Do you have a clue what you are talking about. Doubled dies are varieties and they are not reworked dies. There are several types of doubling, I think you need to read a book. Maybe cherrypickers.
<< <i>Unlike my previous responses to you Perry, this is not sarcastic. But are DD's considered "varieties" just like overdates? Afterall, arent they just both reworked dies anyway?
Do you have a clue what you are talking about. Doubled dies are varieties and they are not reworked dies. There are several types of doubling, I think you need to read a book. Maybe cherrypickers. >>
Please tell me what a doubled die is then if its not a reworked die.
Also, www.google.com
Not real hard to get answers these days.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you would, why not the 16/16 which, to me, is one of the neatest overdates you'll ever see? >>
Not an overdate. It's a doubled die. >>
I stand corrected. Hopefully my point is still valid.
The argument that has ensued is the problem itself. Where do YOU draw the line? Once you go beyond the coins that were intended to be produced by the U.S. Mint, the line gets quite blurry. Who has the right to say what errors get included in the album? What's his or her name? Is it Perry? Is it some middle manager at Dansco? Is it me? Is it you? You, Lt. Weinberg?!
A very clear line can be drawn - keep errors out of the books. As others have stated, there are blank slots in the book. I don't want to put a coin that is an error next to a bunch that were produced to mint specifications. If you want to, go ahead, it's your collection, not mine. Just don't push it upon my collection through a labeled slot.
Perry asked a good question, Would you guys still be complaining if the overdates were easy to get and relatively inexpensive? I think so, but maybe not enough to complain here. If the error coins were $5 each, then I would purchase them, put them in my set and maybe grudgingly move on. But when one error coin in the set costs 540 times more than other good coins in the set, well now you got me irked. It also prevents me from letting my six year old son, who is more passionate about coins than many of us are, from taking out the album and looking at it without my strict supervision. (Think you are more passionate? Do you literally jump up and down and yell "Yahoooo" when you make a decision to go to the local coins shop? LOL)
If the price of the coin did not come into play here, I would not be collecting Buffalos in F-12 condition or better in the first place. I would be collecting beautifully toned Buffalos in MS-65 or better. I would also have a custom-made lit display case that would contain no slots for the errors and guys like Perry could pay me $5 to come view them and then go home. (<- Cheap shot, sorry!
Now, someone can start picking what I wrote apart. like a good attorney would. But in the end, this is how I feel. It's good to see I'm not alone.
I am reading this 14 years later and it still makes me mad that the album makers include coins NOT intended for circulation!
@Russell12.... Welcome aboard. It seems the album makers listened to a lot of collectors who wanted those slots. Cheers, RickO
Why not have the albums just have the dates with no mintmarks. That way you can say you have a complete set. The P mintmarks are easier and cheaper as well. I BELIEVE MAJOR VARIETIES/ERRORS SHOULD BE INCLUDED!!!!!
If it's unintentional, how did they get there? Are they in the Red Book?
Maybe Dansco can make a white album that only includes coins for circulation.
Maybe Dansco could make a red album for cherrypickers guide coins only to satisfy the cherrypickers needs.
yes, they are in the Red Book.
And technically, not errors.
They are varieties.
BHNC #203
If the mint's preference would be that they did not happen, they are errors. If the mint doesn't care one way or the other, they're varieties.
To me they aren’t errors. They are major varieties. Nobody made an error when they polished the dies which resulted in a 3 legged, they intentionally kept using them instead of throwing them away. Errors are one offs, like if they didn’t set up the machine right and struck just one off center. Or if they used a dime planchet and made a cent with it by mistake. Same with overdates, they aren’t errors. They deliberately recycled dies from a different year.
That said, album makers should offer albums as basic sets and also basic sets plus varieties and also basic sets with proofs, etc..
But they couldn’t make a Dansco album for errors, because an off center is unique in shape. That sort of thing.
Mr_Spud
On the other hand, I was disappointed when the Dansco I bought new several years ago didn't have slots for the OD and 3-leg, since I had the legger and was planning to acquire the OD. I've since transferred my set to an unmarked Capital holder that had also room for several other major variety Buffs I've acquired. To each his own.
The overdate and three-legged were intended for circulation.
I, too, believe they should be included.
Does anyone remember when the various manufacturers of these albums would list the date yet also include a pop-out? For example, the V Nickel album I have has a spot for 1913 and calls this spot rare with a pop-out.
peacockcoins
Dansco has a feature where they perforate the hole for a rare piece but leave the perforation in place and label it something like 'rare'. They should do this for all the stuff that under normal circumstances would not find their way into a Dansco, like the 1895 $1 and errors like the 1922 no-D and doubled dies.
They're varieties, not errors.
Including coins struck by some dies but not others is rather arbitrary, is it not?
Who knew the 1949 was Rare?!
peacockcoins
This is from a Mexican Un Peso Dansco.
4 million is rare?
peacockcoins