I am going to recant my previous statement. Of all of the outlandish things I have posted here over the years, I would have never guessed that I would be called to the carpet for something I said about buffalo nickels...nearly 15 years later.
@bigtonydallas said:
Why not have the albums just have the dates with no mintmarks. That way you can say you have a complete set. The P mintmarks are easier and cheaper as well. I BELIEVE MAJOR VARIETIES/ERRORS SHOULD BE INCLUDED!!!!!
That's the way I collect 'em. Same with Merc 10c; Standing Lib 25c; Peace dollars; and Indian Head $2.50. I do have the major varieties for the Buffs.
As far as Dansco it could be worse-at least they didn't add a space for the 16/16. Or the '35 DDR-001. Those along with the 18/17 and 3 legged are the four major varieties for the series.
@bigtonydallas said:
Why not have the albums just have the dates with no mintmarks. That way you can say you have a complete set. The P mintmarks are easier and cheaper as well. I BELIEVE MAJOR VARIETIES/ERRORS SHOULD BE INCLUDED!!!!!
Why not have albums with just dates/mintmarks for people who don't think varieties are needed to complete the set? Maybe other people don't care about what you believe should be included?
@RYK said:
I am going to recant my previous statement. Of all of the outlandish things I have posted here over the years, I would have never guessed that I would be called to the carpet for something I said about buffalo nickels...nearly 15 years later.
@MasonG said:
The 1949 peso wasn't released for circulation.
It should even be easier to obtain then.
You mean like 1964 Peace dollars?
Actually, regarding the 1949 peso... due to devaluation (the coin's fineness was reduced from 0.500 to 0.300 in 1950), virtually the entire mintage in 1949 was melted. A few hundred are suspected to exist.
In addition to the mainstream varieties I have several other esoteric but significant varieties, such as the 1913 Var 1 3 1/2 legged, 1930 DDO-006, 1936 DDO-001, 1936 DDR-001, and the 1936-D 3 1/2 legged. I get a nickels, plain album and pages and label and collect them the way I want to do it.
Dansco Album for Large Cents is pretty undoable to the above average collector - I bought a Whitman Album and still have 2 unobtainable coin slots. The 1793 is a proof repro, the 1796 "Forget about it" ...
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@MasonG said:
The 1949 peso wasn't released for circulation.
It should even be easier to obtain then.
You mean like 1964 Peace dollars?
Actually, regarding the 1949 peso... due to devaluation (the coin's fineness was reduced from 0.500 to 0.300 in 1950), virtually the entire mintage in 1949 was melted. A few hundred are suspected to exist.
The collector has it within his or her power to Just say no to the errors. Who cares if the album has one or two unfilled holes where the errors would go? Slab won't fit into the album hole anyway.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
I just obtained a Lincoln Cent Dansco, which has a hole for 1922 no D, even though it is an error and not an intentional US mint issue. I think I'll just put in a very weak D and make a note on the album along the lines of " "1922 Plain" is a weak D, do not sell it as a 1922 Plain" or something like that.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
@mr1874 said:
The collector has it within his or her power to Just say no to the errors. Who cares if the album has one or two unfilled holes where the errors would go? Slab won't fit into the album hole anyway.
Not errors. Varieties. None of the albums have error slots.
@Omegaraptor said:
Collect however you want to collect.
I just obtained a Lincoln Cent Dansco, which has a hole for 1922 no D, even though it is an error and not an intentional US mint issue. I think I'll just put in a very weak D and make a note on the album along the lines of " "1922 Plain" is a weak D, do not sell it as a 1922 Plain" or something like that.
Not errors. Varieties. None of the albums have error slots.
My Whitman penny album 1941-1974 has a hole for 1955 DDO. Is that one not an error?
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
Briefly, errors are a result of irregularities / problems with the planchet and/ or striking process, and the coins are unique individuals.
Varieties are the result of die preparation, and result in a population of normally struck coins that all show the features of that specific die and or die pair.
Of course, a coin can be both.
Such as a 3 legged nickel struck off center, or from a clipped planchet.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
@Omegaraptor said:
Collect however you want to collect.
I just obtained a Lincoln Cent Dansco, which has a hole for 1922 no D, even though it is an error and not an intentional US mint issue. I think I'll just put in a very weak D and make a note on the album along the lines of " "1922 Plain" is a weak D, do not sell it as a 1922 Plain" or something like that.
Again, this is a variety not an error. > @mr1874 said:
Not errors. Varieties. None of the albums have error slots.
My Whitman penny album 1941-1974 has a hole for 1955 DDO. Is that one not an error?
No. Variety.
Errors are one off mistakes. Varieties are multiples struck by non-standard dies.
Errors are one off mistakes. Varieties are multiples struck by non-standard dies
Well, I learn something new almost every day. That's what keeps me coming back here.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
I see a new definition forming. Maybe something like - varieties are coins made with unique dies that have an atypical readily identifiable characteristic that makes them different than normal that was deliberately or accidentally created and multiple examples of the variety were made until the die was retired. Error coins are made improperly and accidentally with normal dies that produce unique characteristics that aren’t present on previous or subsequent coins made with the same dies. And yes, it is possible to have a variety coin that also is a unique error coin (like the clipped coin that also is a double die variety).
It’s still not perfect, but closer and solves the some varieties are errors dilemma. Only the error happened to the dies and not to an individual coin when an error is the cause of a variety.
@RYK said:
I wish that Dansco had not included these holes. Both are unintentional, and, IMO, do not belong in the album for the basic set. If one is an advanced collector of buffalo nickels, then one can decide whether to include these and the other overdates and varieties.
If it's unintentional, how did they get there? Are they in the Red Book?
yes, they are in the Red Book.
And technically, not errors.
They are varieties.
I agree they are varieties, not errors.
As varieties, they are much more suited for set collecting than errors.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
Most of those are "varieties", for the most part. Whenever they are not one offs, they are designated varieties which is why most every one of those things are VAMs or Overton varieties or Sheldon varieties etc.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
You cant please everybody. Dansco included the most popular varieties that most everyone could afford. I don't know if they still do this, but there was a time when Dansco would custom make an album for you. Very costly though, I once saw an a Dansco album that was custom made for Liberty $20 gold pieces. It's too bad that custom made albums are so costly. I like to fill all the holes in albums, some people do not mind the extra holes and just ignore them or fill them with whatever they desire.
Whitman was just as bad.
Yes, those Whitman folders with the pop-out for the 1913 V-nickels are annoying for some reason, and your set seems incomplete without one.
I would consider the die polishing errors such as the 3 legged buffalo to be a die stage error as it wasn't present when the die started striking coins, as a doubled die is. Doubled dies are true varieties, as are RPMs and OMMs, which are present right when the die started striking coins. All the coins from that die, from the first to the last, will show the anomaly.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
Most of those are "varieties", for the most part. Whenever they are not one offs, they are designated varieties which is why most every one of those things are VAMs or Overton varieties or Sheldon varieties etc.
Ha! Thanks for all the links!
I don’t mind eating crow. I think the conclusion is that they can be an error and a variety at the same time.
But, and I know this is getting the topic even further off, there may be a not-so-clear market distinction, based on whether the coin is a classic or modern.
Classic varieties are almost always identified based on these die anomalies, like those I described above. Most modern coins are not collected by die pair and die state (the variety), so when they have anomalies like those I described, they are generally marketed, sold, and collected as error coins.
@GoldenEgg said:
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
Most of those are "varieties", for the most part. Whenever they are not one offs, they are designated varieties which is why most every one of those things are VAMs or Overton varieties or Sheldon varieties etc.
Ha! Thanks for all the links!
I don’t mind eating crow. I think the conclusion is that they can be an error and a variety at the same time.
But, and I know this is getting the topic even further off, there may be a not-so-clear market distinction, based on whether the coin is a classic or modern.
Classic varieties are almost always identified based on these die anomalies, like those I described above. Most modern coins are not collected by die pair and die state (the variety), so when they have anomalies like those I described, they are generally marketed, sold, and collected as error coins.
I think that's true, at least for now. Until someone catalogs the die variety, the market may see it as more of an error.
@rec78 said:
Yes, those Whitman folders with the pop-out for the 1913 V-nickels are annoying for some reason, and your set seems incomplete without one.
Technically, is the set incomplete without one? Does it come down to whether one wants to be reminded of it?
Since the 1913 wasn't an official issue I would think the set is complete without that date. That's aside from the fact that most collectors can't afford it. Why they even bothered to put a space for it in any album is beyond me. Tat shouldn't have been done at all.
And that's why the space in the album or folder (with ☆Rare☆ plug) is there on the 1913 Lib nickel, 1894S dime, and to lesser extent, 1856 FE cent;
To not ignore that it exists, but to communicate that no one expects you to get one-- the book is "complete" without it.
The suggestion for fans of Dansco and other albums, but not the ultra rare or otherwise Not Liking Them holes, is to fill them with a problem coin, different date or whatever, or a picture, or a replica, or a note that days "rare" or "in my opinion this coin not wanted" or just leave it empty.
Other collectors will understand.
@koynekwest said:
Since the 1913 wasn't an official issue I would think the set is complete without that date. That's aside from the fact that most collectors can't afford it. Why they even bothered to put a space for it in any album is beyond me. Tat shouldn't have been done at all.
It probably goes back to when Mehl (and others?) were advertising to buy them for $50 back in the 1920s. I don't think the limited nature of the issue was fully known until later.
Although they now have the 58 DD in the Lincoln registry set which also kind of makes no sense.
But, in the end, collect what you want and to hell with the empty holes.
I just saw a fully complete, vf/xf Dansco complete except for the 3 leg and 8/7 which had RARE stickers in place of coins!
One thing I thought of doing with my album was to pick up a couple hobo nickels to fill those two spots since they're great talking pieces to a non collector who isn't gonna care what 8/7 means.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Comments
To make it a little harder to complete.
I am going to recant my previous statement. Of all of the outlandish things I have posted here over the years, I would have never guessed that I would be called to the carpet for something I said about buffalo nickels...nearly 15 years later.
@Nic FYI, my opinion of trimes remains unchanged.
The 1949 peso wasn't released for circulation.
That's the way I collect 'em. Same with Merc 10c; Standing Lib 25c; Peace dollars; and Indian Head $2.50. I do have the major varieties for the Buffs.
As far as Dansco it could be worse-at least they didn't add a space for the 16/16. Or the '35 DDR-001. Those along with the 18/17 and 3 legged are the four major varieties for the series.
They have them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/182102726274?hash=item2a662b1682:g:YNkAAOSw8VNcXL8b
Why not have albums with just dates/mintmarks for people who don't think varieties are needed to complete the set? Maybe other people don't care about what you believe should be included?
Just askin'.
I label my own Danscos with labels I make using Word. Works pretty well.
Glad I didn't say anything about Buff's.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
This is the way to do it if you want to be in charge of your own set.
Asking the world to bend to personal whim as some seem to be suggesting is a little arrogant.
Not if I'm right.
It should even be easier to obtain then.
peacockcoins
You mean like 1964 Peace dollars?
Actually, regarding the 1949 peso... due to devaluation (the coin's fineness was reduced from 0.500 to 0.300 in 1950), virtually the entire mintage in 1949 was melted. A few hundred are suspected to exist.
The answer to all of these examples is "hobby/industry consensus"
I doubt that there are any of those kinds of decisions that we all agree on.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In addition to the mainstream varieties I have several other esoteric but significant varieties, such as the 1913 Var 1 3 1/2 legged, 1930 DDO-006, 1936 DDO-001, 1936 DDR-001, and the 1936-D 3 1/2 legged. I get a nickels, plain album and pages and label and collect them the way I want to do it.
Dansco Album for Large Cents is pretty undoable to the above average collector - I bought a Whitman Album and still have 2 unobtainable coin slots. The 1793 is a proof repro, the 1796 "Forget about it" ...
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
That makes sense!
peacockcoins
That's the average market value.
The collector has it within his or her power to Just say no to the errors. Who cares if the album has one or two unfilled holes where the errors would go? Slab won't fit into the album hole anyway.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
Collect however you want to collect.
I just obtained a Lincoln Cent Dansco, which has a hole for 1922 no D, even though it is an error and not an intentional US mint issue. I think I'll just put in a very weak D and make a note on the album along the lines of " "1922 Plain" is a weak D, do not sell it as a 1922 Plain" or something like that.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
Not errors. Varieties. None of the albums have error slots.
Again, this is a variety not an error.
VAMs are varieties, not errors, yet albums don't have spaces for all of them.
Not errors. Varieties. None of the albums have error slots.
My Whitman penny album 1941-1974 has a hole for 1955 DDO. Is that one not an error?
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
Briefly, errors are a result of irregularities / problems with the planchet and/ or striking process, and the coins are unique individuals.
Varieties are the result of die preparation, and result in a population of normally struck coins that all show the features of that specific die and or die pair.
Of course, a coin can be both.
Such as a 3 legged nickel struck off center, or from a clipped planchet.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Not sure why album makers put slots for varieties, though I am glad they did. When I find them , they're removed and put in better holders.
Who is digging up the old threads ?
Those are nice pieces TwoSides.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
Again, this is a variety not an error. > @mr1874 said:
No. Variety.
Errors are one off mistakes. Varieties are multiples struck by non-standard dies.
No. Variety.
Errors are one off mistakes. Varieties are multiples struck by non-standard dies
Well, I learn something new almost every day. That's what keeps me coming back here.
Albert Einstein himself stated "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist ... I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings".
There are many die anomalies that are largely considered errors rather than varieties. So excluding die anomalies from the definition of an error or using words such as “one off” in the definition of an error, is not entirely accurate.
Thank you for the correction. Made my post a little too fast.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
If there are indeed many, can you name any examples?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The VAM guys seem to care.
I see a new definition forming. Maybe something like - varieties are coins made with unique dies that have an atypical readily identifiable characteristic that makes them different than normal that was deliberately or accidentally created and multiple examples of the variety were made until the die was retired. Error coins are made improperly and accidentally with normal dies that produce unique characteristics that aren’t present on previous or subsequent coins made with the same dies. And yes, it is possible to have a variety coin that also is a unique error coin (like the clipped coin that also is a double die variety).
It’s still not perfect, but closer and solves the some varieties are errors dilemma. Only the error happened to the dies and not to an individual coin when an error is the cause of a variety.
It’s something like that, sort of, probably.
Mr_Spud
I agree they are varieties, not errors.
As varieties, they are much more suited for set collecting than errors.
And yet, they're totally irrelevant to many who are putting together date/mint sets.
But are they also relevant to many others?
Does the PCGS Registry Set include them?
Die clash, collar clash, cud, split die, die bulge, sunken die, die dent.
Edit: I would also add excessive die polishing to this list, which would include the 3-legged Buffalo that many consider to be a “variety”.
I searched for and found a Dansco that did not include the 18/7 and 3-legged. It is now a complete set.
Always made me mad the Dansco had a spot for an 1895 Morgan as well. That spot was never filled in the set.
Most of those are "varieties", for the most part. Whenever they are not one offs, they are designated varieties which is why most every one of those things are VAMs or Overton varieties or Sheldon varieties etc.
https://www.currencyandcoin.com/rare-coin-report/varieties-vs-errors-whats-the-difference/
https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/us-coin-errors-and-varieties/
https://www.pcgs.com/news/coin-error-or-variety
You cant please everybody. Dansco included the most popular varieties that most everyone could afford. I don't know if they still do this, but there was a time when Dansco would custom make an album for you. Very costly though, I once saw an a Dansco album that was custom made for Liberty $20 gold pieces. It's too bad that custom made albums are so costly. I like to fill all the holes in albums, some people do not mind the extra holes and just ignore them or fill them with whatever they desire.
Whitman was just as bad.
Yes, those Whitman folders with the pop-out for the 1913 V-nickels are annoying for some reason, and your set seems incomplete without one.
I would consider the die polishing errors such as the 3 legged buffalo to be a die stage error as it wasn't present when the die started striking coins, as a doubled die is. Doubled dies are true varieties, as are RPMs and OMMs, which are present right when the die started striking coins. All the coins from that die, from the first to the last, will show the anomaly.
Ha! Thanks for all the links!
I don’t mind eating crow. I think the conclusion is that they can be an error and a variety at the same time.
But, and I know this is getting the topic even further off, there may be a not-so-clear market distinction, based on whether the coin is a classic or modern.
Classic varieties are almost always identified based on these die anomalies, like those I described above. Most modern coins are not collected by die pair and die state (the variety), so when they have anomalies like those I described, they are generally marketed, sold, and collected as error coins.
I think that's true, at least for now. Until someone catalogs the die variety, the market may see it as more of an error.
Actually, anyone who has the 2 coins really doesn't care. Problem is, most of the 18/7 and 3-Legs are slabbed, and couldn't fit in the book anyway.
Now.........the 1916/16 is waiting in the wings..........................
Pete
Technically, is the set incomplete without one? Does it come down to whether one wants to be reminded of it?
Since the 1913 wasn't an official issue I would think the set is complete without that date. That's aside from the fact that most collectors can't afford it. Why they even bothered to put a space for it in any album is beyond me. Tat shouldn't have been done at all.
And that's why the space in the album or folder (with ☆Rare☆ plug) is there on the 1913 Lib nickel, 1894S dime, and to lesser extent, 1856 FE cent;
To not ignore that it exists, but to communicate that no one expects you to get one-- the book is "complete" without it.
The suggestion for fans of Dansco and other albums, but not the ultra rare or otherwise Not Liking Them holes, is to fill them with a problem coin, different date or whatever, or a picture, or a replica, or a note that days "rare" or "in my opinion this coin not wanted" or just leave it empty.
Other collectors will understand.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It probably goes back to when Mehl (and others?) were advertising to buy them for $50 back in the 1920s. I don't think the limited nature of the issue was fully known until later.
Although they now have the 58 DD in the Lincoln registry set which also kind of makes no sense.
But, in the end, collect what you want and to hell with the empty holes.
I just saw a fully complete, vf/xf Dansco complete except for the 3 leg and 8/7 which had RARE stickers in place of coins!
One thing I thought of doing with my album was to pick up a couple hobo nickels to fill those two spots since they're great talking pieces to a non collector who isn't gonna care what 8/7 means.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.