Jim – it appears your Ben & Jerry’s contained a double-dose of caffeine.
OK… my new thread rules! Each and every post MUST contain at least one worthy, meaningful, thoughtful, supportive, complimentary, and/or informative comment pertaining to this coin collection. None of this silly banter only – which adds nothing to the initial topic!
For instance – under my new rules, I would first respond to:
Mark – Thanks for the thoughts on grading, and great comments suggesting only a professional remove the proof coins from the black cases.
SanctionII – Thanks again. As far as I know, I have not been contacted (unless via alternative ID/user) by anyone from PCGS or other TPG. But it seems that maybe it’s time for us to at least make a phone call…
Now... at this point - I would be free to say something like:
Barndog – who’s REAL name happens to be James Barned – did in fact star in his biggest hit:
For Your Eyes Only
I hear he’s working on several more… From Dusty With Love You Only Grade Twice Live and Let Die-Clash The Man with the Golden Coin Commemoratives are Forever
See? Now play by the rules! Don’t make me delete this thread! Lol!
(As Grampy would say… “Hey… hey… you kids settle-down…” )
Nice coins! Too bad the commems were stored in 2x2's ... if in envelopes or a cardboard holder they would have acquired color. A case of where good storage went bad ; money wise. Don't play with the proof sets for photo's. The old black boards are well known and understood. Not a negative or positive. The carbon on the copper and nick's is nothing unusual.
Cladiator – thanks for the “Gadzooks” grading opinion! (Seriously – I look forward and value your comments.)
Tbar – again, thanks for the grade guess on the Norfolk!
Tonedbuff – Thanks for the “wow.”
It’s interesting how my ’07 Redbook only goes to MS-65, and a 2006 Guide to U.S. Coins only goes to MS-66. ($800 “value” for the Norfolk.) What would the value be at MS-67??? ZOINKs!
Nic – well. From the reading I’ve done – it appears it’s possible these Commemoratives may actually be in the 2x2s they came in when ordered! ?? Toning or not - pretty cool... I think it’s possible that these have been sitting (untouched) since the 30s – like the proofs – ordered by my grandfather! And about the proof pics. Well – I don’t believe I would be able to send these off for grading and possible sale – without snapping some pics. I must…
Barndog – all joking aside. Thanks again for your help – and really for getting this “coin” rolling. I have a feeling that no matter what happens with the coins – we cousins will be closer than ever.
Coin Roulette: It’s labeled: “1852 Liberty Dollar.” Hope it’s not fake! If I remember correctly - this is a small coin - maybe 1/2" in diameter.
OK… my new thread rules! Each and every post MUST contain at least one worthy, meaningful, thoughtful, supportive, complimentary, and/or informative comment pertaining to this coin collection. None of this silly banter only – which adds nothing to the initial topic!
I do think the Ben & Jerry's had plenty of Caffeine. I just got in from tearing down our old backyard shed.
Sorry Mark. Cladiator and I had a moment. He's got a few more posts than I; so I thought it was apropos. I personally enjoyed reading it again if it's of any consequence. Yet, again I digress.
<< <i>Norfolk #1 "WOW" MS67. What a phenominal coin. Did I mention WOW? #2 is a nice 65. >>
Norfolks don't jump until 68. A 66 typically goes for $550, a 67 for $600, unless they're really nice coins. A 68 is going to be $1200+. The PCGS+NGC population in 67 is over 8% of the original mintage.
And James Barned speaks!!! It's good to hear form you Barndog! OK. According to the new "Thread Rules" set forth by the eldest male cousin, I have to say something pertinent. Here goes...
HOW 'BOUT THOSE COMMEMS??? If any of you could be/were privy to the endless personal e-mails sent to eachother, you would truly know the flavor of the 'Cousin Humor.'
<< <i>Sorry Mark. Cladiator and I had a moment. >>
Jim – sorry, but Grampy told me on several occasions to, “keep the boys in line.” I guess it rubbed off! Glad the caffeine wore off!
John – OK. I guess my books are a little off with the floating market. Doesn’t matter – still a great coin to look at! Thanks!
Tbar – after some reading I found the difficulty I’m having taking pics of gold is not unique. Don’t know what it is, but for some reason the glare is much worse… At this point it’s fitting to say, a gardener has a “green thumb”, but I don’t seem to have a “Goldfinger”… For that picture, I nominate myself for the “you suck” award (to be taken literally.)
OK – one more before night’s end. A “single” (slightly out of alphabetical sequence from the green book.) Not sure if this one compares to mirabela’s??
I can hear Grampy now saying, "OK Mark you get Jim in private message and set him straight!!! We'll have none of that foolishness on this Forum. UNDERSTOOD!!!"
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!! JIM >>
Jimmynew,
To keep with Mark's new rules: Nice commems Darth!
I found a terrific website for distinguishing the 1972 Ike types Linky.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
'Preciate that DieClash!!! I'll add that to my ever growing list of links for which I have made a folder called "Coins" in my Favorites list.
I'm so grateful my Grandfather gave me the ones I have. And to have a Peg Leg among them just blows me away. Too bad I had (had, being the operative word) them shuffling around in my keepsake box.
The 1972 peg leg I have is from Denver or 'D.' It's pretty worn on both sides. So from the link you provided I have answered my question and thus have a 'Type 1 / Low relief'
Tbar just chimed in with yet another estimated 65+ gem on the Vermont. On that spreadsheet you're compiling, how many are there in the G & G collection that were given a gem status by the guys/gals here on the Forum? What category are the majority of gems in? (i.e. The Commems is my guess.)
Oh, and of course, "Thanks Tbar!!!" You're up early this morning. Me too. Mark PM'd me last night saying that I am hooked. I have to admit the collector gene has definitely re-emerged.
Vermont = PQ65 or maybe a 66. I can't recall if I've mentioned how much I like the look of these coins? Just the perfect amount of natural tone and a nice original skin.
DieClash – You provided an “informative” link for Jim – so no “compliment” was needed. Speaking of which, I first told you guys the 3 Ikes we had did not appear to be peg-legs. Then edited that comment saying it looks like we did indeed have one. Now I’m being told it seems we have two!
Jim – realize that I’m marking the spreadsheet with “ranges” (especially when more than one grader posts.) Some have guessed at the gold pieces, but that’s very difficult with the quality (or lack there of) of those pictures, so I’m only including the commemoratives for this post. At any rate, here’s what we have to date:
<< <i>Is the PQ (proof quality) grade considered a step up from the MS grade? >>
Darth,
PQ (Premium Quality) is an informal term used to describe a very eye appealing coin...proof or mint state doesn't matter. It just means it's a damn nice coin. PR (Proof) and MS (Mint State) are the terms used to differentiate between the two manufacturing processes and these abbreviations are put before the number grade. Ex. PR69, MS69
Like Clad said... to me, a PQ coin is one that truly deserves the grade given it due to great eye appeal and technical quality. Many coins may grade a 65, but are mediocre for the grade, or perhaps would grade 64 20% of the time on regrade. A nice PQ coin is going to consistently grade at or occassionally above the stated grade if it were resubmitted a number of times. I always strive to find coins that I believe are PQ for the grade and then DONT RESUBMIT THEM INTO MEDIOCRITY! But... that's just me.
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!! JIM >>
For the 1972 business strike coins:
A basic summary amounts to the fact that the Cupro-Nickel composition planchets were much harder than their 90% Silver alloy counter parts and after the design for the IKE Dollar was approved and dies cut, the mint found out that getting good quality coins was a difficult task. Dies were breaking and the flat low relief of the design did nothing to promote the beauty of this coin. Good quality coins are very difficult to obtain for the 1971 thru 1972 time frame. To date, only 18 have been graded MS67 and all 18 were from the Denver Mint.
As you may or may not know, proof dies are different from production dies. Proof coins are struck with much higher pressures than production coins and each coin gets struck twice to bring up the full relief of the design.
At some point in time and for whatever reason, the mint somehow ended up with a Proof Reverse Die in the regular production run during 1972. The reverse of the 1971-S and 1972-S 40% Silver Proof coins were different than the regular business strike in that the relief was higher and the Earth in the background had a different design. Instead of hard raised area's to show North America, incuses lines were used. This is most noticeable on the Eastern Seaboard and the islands off the coast of Florida. Both design elements represented but with incused lines which in the case of the islands and later die states, made it appear that there were no islands.
To make a long story short, when the Proof reverse went into the production floor it produced what is known as the Type 2 reverse IKE. US Mint officials stated that 130,000 coins could be produced with a single die. Since the Proof Reverse was of a different alloy than the regular production die, estimates range between 130,000 and 230,000 Type 2 coins produced during the run.
At the same time all this was happening, new high relief designs were being developed because the mint had begun testing and using a much harder steele alloy for die production. This allowed a design change which resulted in the higher relief Type 3 coin being produced.
In addition to the different reverse dies, there were also different obverse dies which is where the PegLeg comes in. Close study of the coins shows that thwere were significant difference between one die and its successor. The R in LIBERTY is most notable especially with the design of the serifs. For 1971 and 1972 Business coins, the serifs were blended up into the the R. For 1973 and on, the serifs were hard cut almost like an appendage on the base of the R.
All 1972-S Proof and Business Strike coins are straight peglegs. All 1976 Type 1 business and 40% Silver coins are Straight Peglegs.
In a nutshell:
Type 1 reverse = 3 Islands centered and to the East of Florida Type 2 reverse = 3 Incused Islands pointing in a NW to SE arrangement. Islands are grouped tightly together. Type 3 reverse = 3 Islands centered under Florida
The easiest method of seeing the different types is by comparing the reverses of the 1971-S, 1972-S, and 1973-S 40% Silver Clad Business strike reverses.
1971-S = Type 1 Reverse 1972-S = Type 2 Reverse 1973-S = Type 3 Reverse
There, I hope I've confused you enough to start studying these coins. A small production run in years produced a whole bunch of different coins.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Thanks for that astounding lesson on Ikes - 19Lyds, and yes you have given me enough to want to learn more about them.
Getting back to this Pegleg thing: If... All 1972-S Proof and Business Strike coins are straight peglegs. All 1976 Type 1 business and 40% Silver coins are Straight Peglegs.
then what makes them desirable, or are the S minted coins not rare? I guess what I'm asking, "Which pegleged Ikes are rare, and is the 1972 D that was given to me a candidate?"
Ah, Rhode Islands... not my fav commem - Each of these has something different going on... the first is the best strike, but has too many digs to hit 65 IMO, so MS64. The second is a little bit cleaner, but not a solid enough strike for a 65 when combined with the hits, so another 64. That last one looks to be suffering from PVC! The first coin I've seen in this collection that may have this issue (luckily). It could be something else, but that looks like PVC. Other than that, it is another 64. Taking another look, the second one may have PVC too, as you point out. Take those to a coin dealer and get another opinion. Then, give them an acetone bath as needed. The PVC (if it is) will only get worse and do damage to the coins... it has to go).
<< <i>Next coin: I like this one also, except I'm not real crazy about the R.O.U.S. (rodent of unusual size) on the flip-side... Thanks for looking... >>
I wonder how many people get the movie reference! My wife can't believe that I call that a classic movie.
It seems like your grandfather frequently purchased more that one of a given commemorative design. Do you have any idea why he did so? Also, I haven't been keeping track, so you might already have answered this question, but I'll ask it anyway: Did your grandfather acquire a complete set of commemoratives? If not, I wonder once more why he purchased more than one of a type.....
Bobafett – uncalled for! As Musky pointed out …it’s a badger. BTW – your caged R.O.U.S is one killa’ chinchilla.
tmott99 – since we were on the movie theme… yes. One of the greatest comedies of all time! And for all ages!
Mark – no, there is not a complete run of the classic commemoratives. (I guess I need to sit down and see exactly how many are missing.) I’ll do some family inquiry, but I don’t know the reason my grandfather would have bought duplicates??
<< <i>OK. Since we’re quoting movie lines, my spreadsheet is all, “marked and membered...” (Thanks to the graders out there!)
19Lyds – I’m now calling-on another one of the “6” to check on the Peg-leg Ike! Interesting… so interesting!
Tonedbuff – your grades on the Maryland’s agree with JimmyJoe. Thanks! And again – leaning the lingo – what’s the definition of a “top pop quality coin.” (Best of the bunch?)
tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right?? Thanks for all the info!
Next Commemorative(s) in line…
Grade at will! >>
My guess - both 64s: first for fingerprints (otherwise 65) the second 64 for a couple of distracting marks.
To answer the duplicate purchase question. Grampy made comments to me that he had several of each keeping the Grandkids in mind. He also said he was trying to complete the collection and it was important to him that he find the right ones. When he found a condidate he usually bought them in pairs because, during that time frame there were only two Grandkids to think about. He originally wanted to give a complete set to each one of us until he realized there were six to think about. (Imagine that.)
Mark:
If you look at the collection in its enterity, he has duplicates of almost everything, and only several triplicates and even fewer quads. I'm assuming that when I came along he went back and started trying to get 3 of everything, but then a windfall of 3 more Grandkids came all at once. It's my opinion that he turned his sights on spending time and money on us in the present when we visited them in Carlsbad. Therefore, he only dabbled in the hobby during the 70's.
As far as I know, he stopped purchasing coins in the early 80's.
Wisconsins: First = MS65, obverse on that coin looks 67... rats been nibbled though... the second also looks 65, but may have a shot at 66. As always, nice coins.
i would get a pcgs membership ($200) that allows you to send in 8 coins for "free" for certification...pcgs is the best and i would not consider any other grading agency...pick the best most valuable 8 coins that you have and send them in...then try to sell them yourself on e-bay...there are many sharks/snakes here and i would stay away from them...
you can find out how your coins have sold at an auction house during the past 12 months...open up an e-bay store ($15 per month) and put your coins there...add 20-50+% to the value of the coin and when you list them make sure to check the box that allows buyers to submit best offers...tell the sharks here about your e-bay store...don't accept paypal or ask the buyer to pay for the paypal fee...the ebay fee to add a coin to your store is only 10 cents per month...you can keep this store open for a year for about $180 and that would give you a very good idea of the public interest in your coins...use this opportunity to sell some of the junk you have in the basement :-)
once you've become a pcgs member, you have up to 2 years to send in your other coins for grading...economy grading is $18 per coin...send the rest of the coins in at your own pace...btw, opening up an ebay store sounds complicated...but believe me, it will be the easiest thing in this whole process...
JimmyJoe – I updated my spreadsheet to reflect your note on fingerprints. Thanks!
Jim – interesting. I was thinking Grampy bought most of the commemoratives way before any of us came along. ?? Wish we could talk to him…
Tonedbuff – as always… (Thanks)
bengals – Thanks for the info on PCGS and eBay. It’s going to take us a bit longer to make decisions because we have to discuss (and “vote”) on matters. We’re starting to talk/plan our next steps…
I have been following this thread from the start and I haven't seen anyone ask you about your photo methods. The images are super and I was wondering what type of camera you are using and what your light source is.
I apologize if this has been hashed over and I missed it.
Pete - that's top-secret info... jk. I actually had someone PM about this, so I'll just copy from the PM... Here it is! Thanks for the compliment.
------------------------------------------------------------------ OK - here's my "setup".
- No scanner - but a Fuji S5100 digital (semi-compact) camera.
- Most important IMO - put the camera on a tripod...
- I've found the full-auto setting to work best. (Most say adjust the white balance settings under florecent lighting, but I did mess with it for a while and didn't get anywhere with it...)
- In my kitchen, under a 4-bulb florecent light - with the plastic "diffuser"
- 9 times out of 10 the non-flash pics come out best.
Lastly on settings and setup. (This Fuji has a 10x optical zoom.) I put a black cloth or whatever on a book or board, and then prop it a shallow angle. I mess/adjust that in an attempt to reduce glare you get if the light hits the coin exactly perpendicular. It also means the camera is not directly over the coin – blocking the above light. (Maybe a 20 or 25-degree angle.) I’ve found it’s best to not zoom too much on the coin. What works best for me is to have the lens maybe 6 or 8” from the coin – put the setting on “Flower” which is for closeup/macro – and start shooting pics. I take about 8 – slightly adjusting the zoom for each pic to make the camera focus a little different on each one. Usually, 5 or 6 come out OK – I just pic the best of the bunch.
I can take a picture, of how I take a picture next time I shoot some coins.
I hope those are not your Proof nickels lying on that sachel!!!!
I've been trying to take pics for 6 months now and have NEVER gotten a pic as good as the WORST of yours! That just burns me up. I guess it's the cruddy camera I'm using.
But I don't think I'll spend several hundred dollars to take pics of my $20 coins! Just don't make sense does it??
Hope everything's going well!.................wes
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
We in the movie business call those, “stunt nickels”… lol.
I hit your BST link – and see gold. I learned quickly taking pictures of gold – even if fake – is very difficult… Case in point: Fake California tokens?
He really started buying coins when he retired from the railroad. When was that?
I may be wrong. If so, then I'll defer to your Dad on that one. But I had a conversation with Grampy when we sat down with the coins when I was about 9 or 10. That was a long time ago, but like the tea cups Grammy had, Grampy wanted a complete set to go to us.
Comments
<< <i>Cladiator:
<< Oh Crap:
Hope he's not pissed... >>
Oh man, you know what happens when BD gets mad!
No. Do I have reason 2B worried?
If I were you I'd lock up my children, bar the doors and start praying!
If I were you I'd lock up my children, bar the doors and start praying!
The second coming it sounds like. I've started singin', "Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints come marching in..."
I don't know if I'd love to be in THAT number...
I also hope he heeds the advice I got on another Forum thread to have thick skin...
<< <i>Cladiator:
If I were you I'd lock up my children, bar the doors and start praying!
The second coming it sounds like. I've started singin', "Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints come marching in..."
Now you're catchin' on.
If I were you I'd lock up my children, bar the doors and start praying!
The second coming it sounds like. I've started singin', "Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints come marching in..." >>
Now you're catchin' on.
Hopefully I won't be incommunicado from this point forward.
<< <i><< Cladiator:
If I were you I'd lock up my children, bar the doors and start praying!
The second coming it sounds like. I've started singin', "Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints, Oh when the Saints come marching in..." >>
Now you're catchin' on.
Hopefully 'catchin on' will gain favor here on the Forum, and I won't be incommunicado from this point forward. >>
I think your safe. Just be carefull around the BD in the future...that was a close one.
OK… my new thread rules! Each and every post MUST contain at least one worthy, meaningful, thoughtful, supportive, complimentary, and/or informative comment pertaining to this coin collection. None of this silly banter only – which adds nothing to the initial topic!
For instance – under my new rules,
Mark – Thanks for the thoughts on grading, and great comments suggesting only a professional remove the proof coins from the black cases.
SanctionII – Thanks again. As far as I know, I have not been contacted (unless via alternative ID/user) by anyone from PCGS or other TPG. But it seems that maybe it’s time for us to at least make a phone call…
Now... at this point - I would be free to say something like:
Barndog – who’s REAL name happens to be James Barned – did in fact star in his biggest hit:
For Your Eyes Only
I hear he’s working on several more…
From Dusty With Love
You Only Grade Twice
Live and Let Die-Clash
The Man with the Golden Coin
Commemoratives are Forever
See? Now play by the rules! Don’t make me delete this thread! Lol!
(As Grampy would say… “Hey… hey… you kids settle-down…” )
#2 is a nice 65.
Don't play with the proof sets for photo's. The old black boards are well known and understood. Not a negative or positive. The carbon on the copper and nick's is nothing unusual.
K
Edit spelling
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Tbar – again, thanks for the grade guess on the Norfolk!
Tonedbuff – Thanks for the “wow.”
It’s interesting how my ’07 Redbook only goes to MS-65, and a 2006 Guide to U.S. Coins only goes to MS-66. ($800 “value” for the Norfolk.) What would the value be at MS-67??? ZOINKs!
Nic – well. From the reading I’ve done – it appears it’s possible these Commemoratives may actually be in the 2x2s they came in when ordered! ?? Toning or not - pretty cool... I think it’s possible that these have been sitting (untouched) since the 30s – like the proofs – ordered by my grandfather! And about the proof pics. Well – I don’t believe I would be able to send these off for grading and possible sale – without snapping some pics. I must…
Barndog – all joking aside. Thanks again for your help – and really for getting this “coin” rolling. I have a feeling that no matter what happens with the coins – we cousins will be closer than ever.
Coin Roulette: It’s labeled: “1852 Liberty Dollar.” Hope it’s not fake! If I remember correctly - this is a small coin - maybe 1/2" in diameter.
Darth Vader has spoken:
OK… my new thread rules! Each and every post MUST contain at least one worthy, meaningful, thoughtful, supportive, complimentary, and/or informative comment pertaining to this coin collection. None of this silly banter only – which adds nothing to the initial topic!
I do think the Ben & Jerry's had plenty of Caffeine. I just got in from tearing down our old backyard shed.
Sorry Mark. Cladiator and I had a moment. He's got a few more posts than I; so I thought it was apropos. I personally enjoyed reading it again if it's of any consequence. Yet, again I digress.
Ok. More pics!!! I'm back on topic now.
Luv,
JIM
<< <i>Norfolk #1 "WOW" MS67. What a phenominal coin. Did I mention WOW?
#2 is a nice 65. >>
Norfolks don't jump until 68. A 66 typically goes for $550, a 67 for $600, unless they're really nice coins. A 68 is going to be $1200+. The PCGS+NGC population in 67 is over 8% of the original mintage.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
And James Barned speaks!!! It's good to hear form you Barndog! OK. According to the new "Thread Rules" set forth by the eldest male cousin, I have to say something pertinent. Here goes...
HOW 'BOUT THOSE COMMEMS??? If any of you could be/were privy to the endless personal e-mails sent to eachother, you would truly know the flavor of the 'Cousin Humor.'
When is Freak-a-Bullet going to chime in???
Hard to get a good read from the pics.
Just a fantastic collection to inherit...top to bottom.
Congratulations once again.
<< <i>Sorry Mark. Cladiator and I had a moment. >>
Jim – sorry, but Grampy told me on several occasions to, “keep the boys in line.” I guess it rubbed off! Glad the caffeine wore off!
John – OK. I guess my books are a little off with the floating market. Doesn’t matter – still a great coin to look at! Thanks!
Tbar – after some reading I found the difficulty I’m having taking pics of gold is not unique. Don’t know what it is, but for some reason the glare is much worse… At this point it’s fitting to say, a gardener has a “green thumb”, but I don’t seem to have a “Goldfinger”… For that picture, I nominate myself for the “you suck” award (to be taken literally.)
OK – one more before night’s end. A “single” (slightly out of alphabetical sequence from the green book.) Not sure if this one compares to mirabela’s??
I can hear Grampy now saying, "OK Mark you get Jim in private message and set him straight!!! We'll have none of that foolishness on this Forum. UNDERSTOOD!!!"
<< <i>19Lyds:
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!!
JIM >>
Jimmynew,
To keep with Mark's new rules: Nice commems Darth!
I found a terrific website for distinguishing the 1972 Ike types Linky.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I'm so grateful my Grandfather gave me the ones I have. And to have a Peg Leg among them just blows me away. Too bad I had (had, being the operative word) them shuffling around in my keepsake box.
The 1972 peg leg I have is from Denver or 'D.' It's pretty worn on both sides. So from the link you provided I have answered my question and thus have a 'Type 1 / Low relief'
Thanks!!!
JIM
So Darth(Mark):
Tbar just chimed in with yet another estimated 65+ gem on the Vermont. On that spreadsheet you're compiling, how many are there in the G & G collection that were given a gem status by the guys/gals here on the Forum? What category are the majority of gems in? (i.e. The Commems is my guess.)
Oh, and of course, "Thanks Tbar!!!" You're up early this morning. Me too. Mark PM'd me last night saying that I am hooked. I have to admit the collector gene has definitely re-emerged.
What a gift. Who'd-a thunk it?
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Jim – realize that I’m marking the spreadsheet with “ranges” (especially when more than one grader posts.) Some have guessed at the gold pieces, but that’s very difficult with the quality (or lack there of) of those pictures, so I’m only including the commemoratives for this post. At any rate, here’s what we have to date:
Total Commemoratives “graded” – 36
VF/XF: 3
MS-63: 3
MS-63/64: 3
MS-64: 5
MS-64/65: 2
MS-65: 9
MS-65/66: 7
MS-66: 3
MS-66+/67: 1
Tonedbuff – I don’t have any books in front of me. Is the PQ (proof quality) grade considered a step up from the MS grade?
Fastrudy - thanks!
<< <i>Is the PQ (proof quality) grade considered a step up from the MS grade? >>
Darth,
PQ (Premium Quality) is an informal term used to describe a very eye appealing coin...proof or mint state doesn't matter. It just means it's a damn nice coin. PR (Proof) and MS (Mint State) are the terms used to differentiate between the two manufacturing processes and these abbreviations are put before the number grade. Ex. PR69, MS69
Thanks for the update Mark:
To coin an everlasting jingle provided by GM's brand, Pontiac, "You build ex cite ment..."
JIM
<< <i>19Lyds:
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!!
JIM >>
For the 1972 business strike coins:
A basic summary amounts to the fact that the Cupro-Nickel composition planchets were much harder than their 90% Silver alloy counter parts and after the design for the IKE Dollar was approved and dies cut, the mint found out that getting good quality coins was a difficult task. Dies were breaking and the flat low relief of the design did nothing to promote the beauty of this coin. Good quality coins are very difficult to obtain for the 1971 thru 1972 time frame. To date, only 18 have been graded MS67 and all 18 were from the Denver Mint.
As you may or may not know, proof dies are different from production dies. Proof coins are struck with much higher pressures than production coins and each coin gets struck twice to bring up the full relief of the design.
At some point in time and for whatever reason, the mint somehow ended up with a Proof Reverse Die in the regular production run during 1972. The reverse of the 1971-S and 1972-S 40% Silver Proof coins were different than the regular business strike in that the relief was higher and the Earth in the background had a different design. Instead of hard raised area's to show North America, incuses lines were used. This is most noticeable on the Eastern Seaboard and the islands off the coast of Florida. Both design elements represented but with incused lines which in the case of the islands and later die states, made it appear that there were no islands.
To make a long story short, when the Proof reverse went into the production floor it produced what is known as the Type 2 reverse IKE. US Mint officials stated that 130,000 coins could be produced with a single die. Since the Proof Reverse was of a different alloy than the regular production die, estimates range between 130,000 and 230,000 Type 2 coins produced during the run.
At the same time all this was happening, new high relief designs were being developed because the mint had begun testing and using a much harder steele alloy for die production. This allowed a design change which resulted in the higher relief Type 3 coin being produced.
In addition to the different reverse dies, there were also different obverse dies which is where the PegLeg comes in. Close study of the coins shows that thwere were significant difference between one die and its successor. The R in LIBERTY is most notable especially with the design of the serifs. For 1971 and 1972 Business coins, the serifs were blended up into the the R. For 1973 and on, the serifs were hard cut almost like an appendage on the base of the R.
All 1972-S Proof and Business Strike coins are straight peglegs. All 1976 Type 1 business and 40% Silver coins are Straight Peglegs.
In a nutshell:
Type 1 reverse = 3 Islands centered and to the East of Florida
Type 2 reverse = 3 Incused Islands pointing in a NW to SE arrangement. Islands are grouped tightly together.
Type 3 reverse = 3 Islands centered under Florida
The easiest method of seeing the different types is by comparing the reverses of the 1971-S, 1972-S, and 1973-S 40% Silver Clad Business strike reverses.
1971-S = Type 1 Reverse
1972-S = Type 2 Reverse
1973-S = Type 3 Reverse
There, I hope I've confused you enough to start studying these coins. A small production run in years produced a whole bunch of different coins.
The name is LEE!
Jim – just postin’ pics like I said I would…
Lee – a staggering display of knowledge and information. (I assign this topic to Jim…)
Next coin set. Rhode Islands
S Mint
Hairline-like mark next to the book is in the cellophane (I believe.) These coins do have some “dings.”
P Mint
D Mint (Not sure about that green spot in "Island"?? Hmmm - also just noticed in the shield above... PVC? )
Thanks for that astounding lesson on Ikes - 19Lyds, and yes you have given me enough to want to learn more about them.
Getting back to this Pegleg thing: If...
All 1972-S Proof and Business Strike coins are straight peglegs. All 1976 Type 1 business and 40% Silver coins are Straight Peglegs.
then what makes them desirable, or are the S minted coins not rare? I guess what I'm asking, "Which pegleged Ikes are rare, and is the 1972 D that was given to me a candidate?"
JIM
Taking another look, the second one may have PVC too, as you point out. Take those to a coin dealer and get another opinion. Then, give them an acetone bath as needed. The PVC (if it is) will only get worse and do damage to the coins... it has to go).
Next coin: I like this one also, except I'm not real crazy about the R.O.U.S. (rodent of unusual size) on the flip-side...
Thanks for looking...
If so...Nice beaver
otherwise, we don't need no stinkin' Badgers! (pun intended)
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
<< <i>Next coin: I like this one also, except I'm not real crazy about the R.O.U.S. (rodent of unusual size) on the flip-side...
Thanks for looking... >>
It seems like your grandfather frequently purchased more that one of a given commemorative design. Do you have any idea why he did so? Also, I haven't been keeping track, so you might already have answered this question, but I'll ask it anyway: Did your grandfather acquire a complete set of commemoratives? If not, I wonder once more why he purchased more than one of a type.....
tmott99 – since we were on the movie theme… yes. One of the greatest comedies of all time! And for all ages!
Mark – no, there is not a complete run of the classic commemoratives. (I guess I need to sit down and see exactly how many are missing.) I’ll do some family inquiry, but I don’t know the reason my grandfather would have bought duplicates??
<< <i>OK. Since we’re quoting movie lines, my spreadsheet is all, “marked and membered...” (Thanks to the graders out there!)
19Lyds – I’m now calling-on another one of the “6” to check on the Peg-leg Ike! Interesting… so interesting!
Tonedbuff – your grades on the Maryland’s agree with JimmyJoe. Thanks! And again – leaning the lingo – what’s the definition of a “top pop quality coin.” (Best of the bunch?)
tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right??
Thanks for all the info!
Next Commemorative(s) in line…
Grade at will! >>
My guess - both 64s: first for fingerprints (otherwise 65) the second 64 for a couple of distracting marks.
Jim
To answer the duplicate purchase question. Grampy made comments to me that he had several of each keeping the Grandkids in mind. He also said he was trying to complete the collection and it was important to him that he find the right ones. When he found a condidate he usually bought them in pairs because, during that time frame there were only two Grandkids to think about. He originally wanted to give a complete set to each one of us until he realized there were six to think about. (Imagine that.)
Mark:
If you look at the collection in its enterity, he has duplicates of almost everything, and only several triplicates and even fewer quads. I'm assuming that when I came along he went back and started trying to get 3 of everything, but then a windfall of 3 more Grandkids came all at once. It's my opinion that he turned his sights on spending time and money on us in the present when we visited them in Carlsbad. Therefore, he only dabbled in the hobby during the 70's.
As far as I know, he stopped purchasing coins in the early 80's.
JIM
i would get a pcgs membership ($200) that allows you to send in 8 coins for "free" for certification...pcgs is the best and i would not consider any other grading agency...pick the best most valuable 8 coins that you have and send them in...then try to sell them yourself on e-bay...there are many sharks/snakes here and i would stay away from them...
you can find out how your coins have sold at an auction house during the past 12 months...open up an e-bay store ($15 per month) and put your coins there...add 20-50+% to the value of the coin and when you list them make sure to check the box that allows buyers to submit best offers...tell the sharks here about your e-bay store...don't accept paypal or ask the buyer to pay for the paypal fee...the ebay fee to add a coin to your store is only 10 cents per month...you can keep this store open for a year for about $180 and that would give you a very good idea of the public interest in your coins...use this opportunity to sell some of the junk you have in the basement :-)
once you've become a pcgs member, you have up to 2 years to send in your other coins for grading...economy grading is $18 per coin...send the rest of the coins in at your own pace...btw, opening up an ebay store sounds complicated...but believe me, it will be the easiest thing in this whole process...
Jim – interesting. I was thinking Grampy bought most of the commemoratives way before any of us came along. ?? Wish we could talk to him…
Tonedbuff – as always… (Thanks)
bengals – Thanks for the info on PCGS and eBay. It’s going to take us a bit longer to make decisions because we have to discuss (and “vote”) on matters. We’re starting to talk/plan our next steps…
The first York was in the first thread...
I have been following this thread from the start and I haven't seen anyone ask you about your photo methods. The images are super and I was wondering what type of camera you are using and what your light source is.
I apologize if this has been hashed over and I missed it.
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OK - here's my "setup".
- No scanner - but a Fuji S5100 digital (semi-compact) camera.
- Most important IMO - put the camera on a tripod...
- I've found the full-auto setting to work best. (Most say adjust the white balance settings under florecent lighting, but I did mess with it for a while and didn't get anywhere with it...)
- In my kitchen, under a 4-bulb florecent light - with the plastic "diffuser"
- 9 times out of 10 the non-flash pics come out best.
Lastly on settings and setup. (This Fuji has a 10x optical zoom.) I put a black cloth or whatever on a book or board, and then prop it a shallow angle. I mess/adjust that in an attempt to reduce glare you get if the light hits the coin exactly perpendicular. It also means the camera is not directly over the coin – blocking the above light. (Maybe a 20 or 25-degree angle.) I’ve found it’s best to not zoom too much on the coin. What works best for me is to have the lens maybe 6 or 8” from the coin – put the setting on “Flower” which is for closeup/macro – and start shooting pics. I take about 8 – slightly adjusting the zoom for each pic to make the camera focus a little different on each one. Usually, 5 or 6 come out OK – I just pic the best of the bunch.
I can take a picture, of how I take a picture next time I shoot some coins.
Good luck!
I hope those are not your Proof nickels lying on that sachel!!!!
I've been trying to take pics for 6 months now and have NEVER gotten a pic as good as the WORST of yours!
That just burns me up. I guess it's the cruddy camera I'm using.
But I don't think I'll spend several hundred dollars to take pics of my $20 coins! Just don't make sense does it??
Hope everything's going well!.................wes
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>I hope those are not your Proof nickels lying on that sachel!!!!
Hope everything's going well!.................wes >>
Going fine, Wes. Thanks!
We in the movie business call those, “stunt nickels”… lol.
I hit your BST link – and see gold. I learned quickly taking pictures of gold – even if fake – is very difficult… Case in point: Fake California tokens?
I may be wrong. If so, then I'll defer to your Dad on that one. But I had a conversation with Grampy when we sat down with the coins when I was about 9 or 10. That was a long time ago, but like the tea cups Grammy had, Grampy wanted a complete set to go to us.
JIM
nice photos.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards