<< <i>About the Maine; actually I don't think that's a sign of cleaning. It looks very much to me as though the lines are raised on the surface of the coin, and sneaking behind the wreath. In other words, a bit of wayward die polish gone amuck, and on the coin as part of the manufacturing process. The remainder of the surfaces appear fine and unmolested, which leads me to think "die polish". Seeing the coin in hand would be best (as usual.) >>
I have seen several Maine Commemoratives with the same "scratches". I believe you will find out that they are die polish marks.
<< <i>About the Maine; actually I don't think that's a sign of cleaning. It looks very much to me as though the lines are raised on the surface of the coin, and sneaking behind the wreath. In other words, a bit of wayward die polish gone amuck, and on the coin as part of the manufacturing process. The remainder of the surfaces appear fine and unmolested, which leads me to think "die polish". Seeing the coin in hand would be best (as usual.) >>
I have seen several Maine Commemoratives with the same "scratches". I believe you will find out that they are die polish marks. >>
A good way to help see if they are cleaning lines or die polish lines:
The lines are going to be in the fields of the coin (part of the coin with no design) in either case. The difference is, with cleaning, the lines usually will cover both the fields and devices (the actual design element) of the coin. With die polish lines they will only be in the fields. You will be able to plainly see die polish lines abruptly stop where the devices begin.
Do you have the halogen lamp and loupe or magnifying glass yet? The Maine has what looks like evidence of a die clash on the obverse. The reverse could be die polish. The dies could be well used and at the end of their lifespan. The coin is a bit white compared to the others in this collection.
Personally I'd send almost all the Commems to PCGS. They will tell you if some are cleaned. You might want to talk to a customer service person and point to this thread and ask for a pedigree. Assuming that doesn't work you can enter all the commems in the PCGS registry and see if they grade high enough to enable you to pedigree the coins. If not someone here with pull might have a talk with David Hall and get them Pedigreed anyway.
WOW!!! Thanks Carl. The primary reason for us to have them pedigreed, is to honor our Grandparents name; so no matter what happens to the coins/collection, they will/can be traced back to them.
I do have a question about the bust halves you have. You posted a 1835 half, if you have a picture of the 1832 half I would love to see it. I am a collector of that year. Thanks in advance.
I look forward to seeing more pictures and posts. God Bless you all. >>
OK – so I leave work – go eat with the family – and I missed my opportunity to post, 200! (jk) Man – I may have to break-up my posts here in an attempt to answer everyone!
Omega - Ahhh… hel-lewwww!! Look up 7 posts from yours! I SO beat you to that movie answer! lol!
Original – thanks once again! And yes – no doubt this is the “vehicle”!
Rodius – Hey! Glad to see you post! (Though your new avitar threw me!) We do in fact have a several-year “run” of bust halves. I think I’ll just stop here for now – post the coin – and answer the rest a little later. God’s blessings to you!
BTW if Darth5oh continues to favor us with pics of the coins in Grandfather's collection, I suspect that this thread may exceed the 500+ posts to the original "Recently Acquired Coin Collection" thread posted in January.
Both threads get my vote for the best and most entertaining/enjoyable threads of 2007 (and the best since I 8-2004 when I joined and started posting). Thanks again to Darth and his extended family for letting us live vicariously through them. Wish my ancestors had collected and that the fruits of their collecting efforts passed down to moi. Oh well, I guess I will have to be satisfied with being the "Grandfather" in my family.
Wow! I need to do some reading on die-clash, die polish, polish lines, etc. Excellent information! And what feedback on one coin! OK – I am going to start the process of copying this thread. This wealth of information you guys are providing will be (and is) invaluable to us!
Carl – well, I don’t think I have a “good” halogen lamp, but I do still have Barndog’s 5x loupe. Problem is – coins are not that easy to access… Also – interesting note on a dies lifespan. Again – just HUGE amounts of info!
Jim – I second your “WOW”…
SanctionII – I’ll continue to post pics, just at a bit slower pace than the last thread. And… I promise I’ll post up a few on a ’38 proof set by tomorrow evening at the latest. (I’ve got family stuff today!) Oh – and I’m sure being a grandfather has it’s perks!
Here’s the next coin(s) on my list – I’ll check in later this evening! Thanks to everyone for all the nice comments – once again!
The first Maryland is at least an MS65, and really nice strike with no die abrasion on Lord Calvert. Could go higher. The second has claims to MS65 as well, but not as eye appealing in my opinion with some die abrasion (precludes I would think anything higher than 65). Both shields exhibit the usuall slight weakness.
About the 1832 half, Darth, that is certainly a cleaned coin - but it was cleaned when placed in an album years ago, and has toned up not unattractively around the rims. You won't be able to convince anyone experienced that it's "never" been cleaned, but it looks about as good as you would hope a cleaned coin can look. It might or might not be slabbed by one of the 3 main services - once upon a time they wouldn't slab cleaned pieces, they still don't mostly, but some are deemed "acceptable" enough. ANYWAY, kind of a moot point here, as this 1832 probably doesn't warrant slabbing - at least not in the way your commems and proofs of the '30s and '40s do.
Darth, Your family has inherited quite a beautiful collection...lots of variety...your grandfather obviously enjoyed the beauty of coins and made choice selections. I'm just wondering though, are there any Barber half dollars (minted 1892-1915) in the collection? If there are none then that may corroborate other writings that Barber halves, especially circulated Barbers, were not widely collected during that period. Some consider the Barber half, the working man's coin, hence their scarcity in certain dates and in the mid-grades...and the lack of appeal for collectors during that period. Anyway, great collection...I've enjoyed the threads...good luck to you and your family!
Rodius – Thanks, but I don’t understand your statement, “but I cannot find the die marriage in my Overton Book. “ Please explain. Thanks!
Mustang – yes, a ’67 (my wife’s actually.) Cars are definitely my passion/hobby. I (myself) painted the car back in ’93 – picture (taken by a co-worker) at a 2006 car show…. Thanks again for your comments!
Originalisbest – right. There are a BUNCH of loose coins. I’m currently getting “assistance” with cataloging these! I know many are not “gems”, but at this point it’s just great we have the variety.
Newbarberguy – thanks for the comments! I’m checking on the Barber halves. If memory serves – I don’t think so, but I’ll let you know if we find any!
Coin Roulette! Probably of little consequence – but a least a pic! (Jim – Ring a bell?)
Great Maryland's: I'd give the first a 66 and the second a 65, mostly due to lacking eye appeal and a bit of chatter on the cheek.
I am still eagerly awaiting the icing on the cake pic of the Spanish Trail! Anyone who has not seen that is going to fall over dead... I still think, from the first pics, that you could have a top pop quality coin in that one.
OK. I know I'm new, and Mark you've had the benefit of looking at each piece to see what the Forum guys are saying, but what the heck are 'serifs?' I did go to Dictionary.com B4 writing this; so what I'm guessing - serifs are the little dash marks at the end of a letter - right?
Like carrying the stroke of a capital D around beyond the vertical line???
Jimmynew I think will be my name for the Forum's sake.
Newbarberguy- I logged in to your Pelican Collection. Nice write up on your parents born in the period!!! So is yours pedegreed or just named 'The Pelican Collection?'
We're trying to do exactly what you've done; so we can honor our Grandparents and the seriously awesome memories they provided all the cousins.
<< <i>Rodius – Thanks, but I don’t understand your statement, “but I cannot find the die marriage in my Overton Book. “ Please explain. >>
A guy by the name of Overton wrote a book cataloging all of the different dies used to make the bust halves. He also documented die marriages which is the combination of an obverse die and a reverse die. Let's just simplify it for sake of conversation. In 1823, they made Obverse A, B, and C as well as Reverse 1,2, and 3. Some of the die marriages could be Obverse A with Reverse 1 or they could have used Obverse A with Reverse 2. Those are just two different die marriages. These marriages are cataloged in the Overton book and are called Overton numbers.
And Jim, yes, serifs are the extra fancy stuff on fonts. The foot and heel if you will of letters. Peg leg Ikes don't have serifs on the R.
OK. Since we’re quoting movie lines, my spreadsheet is all, “marked and membered...” (Thanks to the graders out there!)
19Lyds – I’m now calling-on another one of the “6” to check on the Peg-leg Ike! Interesting… so interesting!
Tonedbuff – your grades on the Maryland’s agree with JimmyJoe. Thanks! And again – leaning the lingo – what’s the definition of a “top pop quality coin.” (Best of the bunch?)
tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right?? Thanks for all the info!
OK… first picture is one I posted in the first thread, just a little better resolution. It’s the 3 proof sets that are in these aftermarket holders. (’36, ’37, ’38) Unfortunately on two sets, you can’t see the reverse – no “rear window”… I’ll be posting-up better/detailed pics of the ’38 set in just a bit…
<< <i>tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right?? >>
Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense?
<< <i>Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense? >>
Yes... except to me a Obv-A / Rev-1 would be O-101, and your example *should* be O-102 ?? But I guess that's really not the point. What's the significance of a certain marriage? Is it that a certain one produced the best or worst strike? In other words, maybe a 1832 Bust half with a O-202 marriage is the most desired coin to have?? Thanks for taking the time to explain!
OK - these next pictures go out to SanctionII - a few better pictures of the '38 set.
What's with the spots?
A Washington quarter never did much for me - but this one seems to have pretty nice eye-appeal.
Yes - I'd like to bust them out and photo the reverse...
<< <i>Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense? >>
Yes... except to me a Obv-A / Rev-1 would be O-101, and your example *should* be O-102 ?? But I guess that's really not the point. What's the significance of a certain marriage? Is it that a certain one produced the best or worst strike? In other words, maybe a 1832 Bust half with a O-202 marriage is the most desired coin to have?? Thanks for taking the time to explain! >>
I was just using numbers as an example. There could be many (20 or more) die marriages for any given year. Some collectors collect by die marriage and therefore, if you have a rarer die marriage, it could make it more valuable to those collectors. If the die marriage isn't listed in the major reference book by Overton, then it could be considered a discovery coin and could then again, bring more money. In some cases, the dies on the bust halves were really abused. It seemed that many times, the dies would come together without a blank coin in between. The dies would leave an impression on each other that would then be part of the next coins being struck. This is called a die clash. There are many interesting die clashes within the bust half series. On one, I can't remember exactly which one, you can see the entire reverse on the obverse and the entire obverse on the reverse. Die clashes can be found on any denomination, not just the bust half series.
<< <i>OK. I know I'm new, and Mark you've had the benefit of looking at each piece to see what the Forum guys are saying, but what the heck are 'serifs?' I did go to Dictionary.com B4 writing this; so what I'm guessing - serifs are the little dash marks at the end of a letter - right?
Like carrying the stroke of a capital D around beyond the vertical line???
Jimmynew I think will be my name for the Forum's sake.
>>
Pretty much.
Serifs are the little tick marks the distinguish some letter types from others. A good example is the diffeence between Ariel and Times Roman.
On the Silver IKE, the serifs are made by sloping the left and right edge of the R so that its base is wider than the middle of the left vertical. Specifically:
Side by side, they look like this:
Pegleg R on the left ...................................................................... Regular R on the right.
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Okay: 38 proof set is nice, and I agree that the spots on the nickel are carbon. Don't even bother trying to remove, they are with you for life. The Nickel is not the most valuable coin in that group anyhow, so I would not sweat it too much. Carbon spots happen on nickel. The New Rochelle's are nice, I'd go MS65 on the first, 64 on the second. Nice coins all around. Top pop is a coin that is of a matching grade to the highest a grading service has ever graded. So, if they have grated 8 MS67's of something, and you send a coin that grades out as MS67, it is a top pop coin, 8 graded the same, none higher. For the registry collectors, top pop coins are the promised land, and they attract very high bidding since they are the 'best that can be found'.
Ok, it looks like O-113 or O-113a neither are exceptionally rare. There is only one rare die marriage for this date and this isn't it. BUT, I'm not 100% convinced it's 113. Can anyone else lend assistance? I'm fairly certain of reverse J but not obverse 9.
Darth, Jim, and family, don't need to worry about the stuff I just mentioned unless someone comes back and agrees that this isn't obverse die 9.
<< <i>The spots on the 38 proof nickel are probably carbon spots. Difficult if not impossible to remove.
The silver coins have toned up. I would be tempted to remove the toning if it is negative or neutral. >>
Agree on the cent and nickel. They will probably grade 64 at best due to the spots. Pity, because the nickel is rather nicely toned on the obverse. If the reverses of the silver coins look like the obverses, then by no means remove the toning. Removing the proofs from those holders is going to have to be a surgical operation. The last thing you want is for the the plastic sleeve to slide across any of the coins. Those are some high ticket coins, especially the '36 set, and slide marks could do some high ticket damage.
Cousin 2-- Re: question on pedigree...my set is not pedigreed nor will it ever likely be pedigreed. The Pelican Collection is just a name I tagged it with--it fits the theme of my family's background. To qualify for pedigree, one of the rules (as I understand from the PCGS web page) is the collection must qualify as one of the top five collections. My collection and several others in that category in the registry will never make it that far because we're focusing on mid-grade Barber halves so the weighted GPA of our collection will never out-compete the upper level mint grade coins. If they ever create a category for best ever mid-grade Barber halves we may stand a chance of getting into the top five and qualify for a pedigree. However, getting into the top five is not my goal--nor am I attempting to compete with my other colleagues--I just admire that particular coin and grade and what the collection means to me personally. I think your desire to have your inherited collection pedigreed is a great idea to honor your grandfather, particularly since he was an avid collector and had such a sharp eye for beautiful coins--I would recommend you do an inventory of the whole collection, have the coins certified by PCGS, document your justification for desiring a pediree and appeal to the PCGS board of directors for a decision. They've been know to allow exceptions under special circumstances...and if they approve it, you've added more value and a legacy to the collection. I don't know how many commemoratives you have but if you have a complete collection for a designated period you might be able to quality as "all time finest" in the commemorative series...something to research and ponder.
Even if you don't qualify for a pedigree and you want to honor your grandfather, you can have all the coins graded by PCGS and create a composite collection in the Registry and name it whatever title you desire. That way, it's available for all to see and admire and you've added some validation to his efforts. Of course, if at some point you sell all the coins you'll have to "retire" the collection but you will still have a documented record (with photos) of all your grandfather's efforts. Just an idea. I'm really a new guy in all of this but I'm sure there are numerous other veteran coin collectors out there that can shed some expert insight into all of this...they might like to chime in with their sage advice. Good luck...I wish you much success in this noble effort.
19Lyds – just verified the 3 Ikes we have are “normal” – no peg-legs…
Tonedbuff – thanks again for the (Rochelle) grades, and for the explanation of a “top pop” coin. (Certainly would be exciting if we had one!) Also on the proof set comments. Carbon spots it is, I guess…
Tmot99 – this is interesting on the Bust halves. In addition to the posted ’32 and ’35, we have a ’31, ’33, ’34, and ’36 (all in about the same “shape”.) I’d be interested to know if any of these could possible have a unique die marriage. I have pictures of these others too, and will post if someone says, “Let me see the 1834!” Thanks for taking the time to explain all this!
Athena – Thanks for the compliment!
John(messydesk) and SanctionII – OK, thanks for the comments on the proof set. I’m thinking that those black holders are going to have to be destroyed in order to get those coins out. On one of the larger coin boards (holding some halves) – I’ve removed a few of those sliding windows in order to get decent pictures. I used a small pair of tweezers to grab the end of the “window” at the edge of the cardboard to start it out. (No pushing down on the plastic (window) over the coin.) I attempted to do the same on one of those proof sets – but the “window” would not move. The proof coins appear to fit very snugly in those holes – like they were pressed in – and I can’t tell, but the coins may actually be in contact with the “window”.
Newbarberguy – wow! I need to re-read your post several more times to digest all that! Thanks for taking the time! Even if we can’t/don’t pedigree – having a “registered” name would seem to be the next best thing to honor our grandparents. I’m going to take a look at your Pelican Collection later this evening. Thanks again!
OK – next Commemorative(s.) I like these – nice design and they appear (to me) to be in great shape.
After seeing your fantastic explanation via photo ("A pic is worth a thous...") on what serifs are: I got my trusty loupe out and looked at the Lyds Grampy gave me. I do in fact have one myself...
This is my day!!!
And Nerbarberguy:
Again, WOW!!! You put some time and thought into your answer, and gave us cousins some valuable insight and ideas. Naming the collection may be our "Plan B." should the pedegree plan fall through, but once the PCGS sees the set of Commems maybe we will have a shot.
Norfolks come pretty but the first is especially nice. MS68s are not too terribly rare for that particular coin, so I suspect your coin will be at least a 67 or a 68.
Re the proof coins in the black holder: Personally, I strongly urge you to keep the coins in the holder and not try to remove them. Wait until you at the auction house and/or with experienced sellers. I don't think there is a "trick" to removing the coins, but I'd sure hate to damage one out of my ignorance. I think that if there is some best method for remving the coins, the experienced sellers will know it so I'd let them remove the coins. Plus I'd also hate to remove a coin and then harm it when it is loose. It's generally safer to work with your MS coins but your proof coins appear to be very nice and they tend to be more delicate.
Crap!!! Reading all this got me so excited that I just ate a whole pint of Ben & Jerry's Coffee Heath Bar Crunch!!!
tmot99 You know your 'Busts' don't you?
I spent a lot of time researching while in college, but you guys here are incredible!!! Hats off 2-ya. One could spend a lifetime apparently just learning about the inferences/nuances on Bust Halves.
Has anyone heard from 'Barndog' (our resident Mission Impossible guy) who helped Mark in the beginning authenticate that this collection is real from the last thread?
Hey, For grins & giggles, when we make the movie, can Tom Cruise play Barndog?
The pictures of the silver Commemorative coins are fantastic. The coins themselves are even better.
If the family decides to submit the Commems for grading, it will be a real treat to see what grades are assigned to the coins. Definitely a large number of GEMS (65 grade or better) in the collection, plus probably some SUPER GEMS (67 or better grade if I recall).
I am sure this thread and the first thread are being read by persons at PCGS (they probably are fascinated with this story also). It would be interesting to have HRH or other higher ups post their own reply(ies) to this thread giving their own thoughts on Grandfather's collection and the fun/excitement it has generated.
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!! JIM
Comments
Cladiator: We cousins certainly hope so. I can hear him chuckling right now - doing the soft shoe on the tiled kitchen floor.
<< <i>About the Maine; actually I don't think that's a sign of cleaning. It looks very much to me as though the lines are raised on the surface of the coin, and sneaking behind the wreath. In other words, a bit of wayward die polish gone amuck, and on the coin as part of the manufacturing process. The remainder of the surfaces appear fine and unmolested, which leads me to think "die polish". Seeing the coin in hand would be best (as usual.) >>
I have seen several Maine Commemoratives with the same "scratches". I believe you will find out that they are die polish marks.
<< <i>200
Cheater
Our Grandfather (Grampy) was a 32nd degree Mason. I noticed your Call-Sign pic. Thanks for your thoughts/input.
Dan: I can appreciate the cheating.
<< <i>
<< <i>About the Maine; actually I don't think that's a sign of cleaning. It looks very much to me as though the lines are raised on the surface of the coin, and sneaking behind the wreath. In other words, a bit of wayward die polish gone amuck, and on the coin as part of the manufacturing process. The remainder of the surfaces appear fine and unmolested, which leads me to think "die polish". Seeing the coin in hand would be best (as usual.) >>
I have seen several Maine Commemoratives with the same "scratches". I believe you will find out that they are die polish marks.
A good way to help see if they are cleaning lines or die polish lines:
The lines are going to be in the fields of the coin (part of the coin with no design) in either case. The difference is, with cleaning, the lines usually will cover both the fields and devices (the actual design element) of the coin. With die polish lines they will only be in the fields. You will be able to plainly see die polish lines abruptly stop where the devices begin.
Personally I'd send almost all the Commems to PCGS. They will tell you if some are cleaned. You might want to talk to a customer service person and point to this thread and ask for a pedigree. Assuming that doesn't work you can enter all the commems in the PCGS registry and see if they grade high enough to enable you to pedigree the coins. If not someone here with pull might have a talk with David Hall and get them Pedigreed anyway.
WOW!!! Thanks Carl. The primary reason for us to have them pedigreed, is to honor our Grandparents name; so no matter what happens to the coins/collection, they will/can be traced back to them.
JIM
P.S. How's your 'Pull?' LOL
<< <i>Darth and the cousins,
I do have a question about the bust halves you have. You posted a 1835 half, if you have a picture of the 1832 half I would love to see it. I am a collector of that year. Thanks in advance.
I look forward to seeing more pictures and posts. God Bless you all. >>
OK – so I leave work – go eat with the family – and I missed my opportunity to post, 200! (jk) Man – I may have to break-up my posts here in an attempt to answer everyone!
Omega - Ahhh… hel-lewwww!! Look up 7 posts from yours! I SO beat you to that movie answer! lol!
Original – thanks once again! And yes – no doubt this is the “vehicle”!
Rodius – Hey! Glad to see you post! (Though your new avitar threw me!) We do in fact have a several-year “run” of bust halves. I think I’ll just stop here for now – post the coin – and answer the rest a little later. God’s blessings to you!
(Coin looks very similar to the '35.)
BTW if Darth5oh continues to favor us with pics of the coins in Grandfather's collection, I suspect that this thread may exceed the 500+ posts to the original "Recently Acquired Coin Collection" thread posted in January.
Both threads get my vote for the best and most entertaining/enjoyable threads of 2007 (and the best since I 8-2004 when I joined and started posting). Thanks again to Darth and his extended family for letting us live vicariously through them. Wish my ancestors had collected and that the fruits of their collecting efforts passed down to moi. Oh well, I guess I will have to be satisfied with being the "Grandfather" in my family.
Wow! I need to do some reading on die-clash, die polish, polish lines, etc. Excellent information! And what feedback on one coin! OK – I am going to start the process of copying this thread. This wealth of information you guys are providing will be (and is) invaluable to us!
Carl – well, I don’t think I have a “good” halogen lamp, but I do still have Barndog’s 5x loupe. Problem is – coins are not that easy to access… Also – interesting note on a dies lifespan. Again – just HUGE amounts of info!
Jim – I second your “WOW”…
SanctionII – I’ll continue to post pics, just at a bit slower pace than the last thread. And… I promise I’ll post up a few on a ’38 proof set by tomorrow evening at the latest. (I’ve got family stuff today!) Oh – and I’m sure being a grandfather has it’s perks!
Here’s the next coin(s) on my list – I’ll check in later this evening! Thanks to everyone for all the nice comments – once again!
Very nice, original high grade coins.
And a really nice Mustang...is that a '67?????
Good Luch to you and your family with the sales. But best to all of you as a family and your Grampy's legecy.
Your family has inherited quite a beautiful collection...lots of variety...your grandfather obviously enjoyed the beauty of coins and made choice selections. I'm just wondering though, are there any Barber half dollars (minted 1892-1915) in the collection? If there are none then that may corroborate other writings that Barber halves, especially circulated Barbers, were not widely collected during that period. Some consider the Barber half, the working man's coin, hence their scarcity in certain dates and in the mid-grades...and the lack of appeal for collectors during that period. Anyway, great collection...I've enjoyed the threads...good luck to you and your family!
Rodius – Thanks, but I don’t understand your statement, “but I cannot find the die marriage in my Overton Book. “ Please explain. Thanks!
Mustang – yes, a ’67 (my wife’s actually.) Cars are definitely my passion/hobby. I (myself) painted the car back in ’93 – picture (taken by a co-worker) at a 2006 car show…. Thanks again for your comments!
Originalisbest – right. There are a BUNCH of loose coins. I’m currently getting “assistance” with cataloging these! I know many are not “gems”, but at this point it’s just great we have the variety.
Newbarberguy – thanks for the comments! I’m checking on the Barber halves. If memory serves – I don’t think so, but I’ll let you know if we find any!
Coin Roulette! Probably of little consequence – but a least a pic! (Jim – Ring a bell?)
Check out your 1971-S 40% Blue Pack IKEs for Peglegs!
In the R in LIBERTY, the left leg of the R has no serifs.
The name is LEE!
I am still eagerly awaiting the icing on the cake pic of the Spanish Trail! Anyone who has not seen that is going to fall over dead... I still think, from the first pics, that you could have a top pop quality coin in that one.
OK. I know I'm new, and Mark you've had the benefit of looking at each piece to see what the Forum guys are saying, but what the heck are 'serifs?' I did go to Dictionary.com B4 writing this; so what I'm guessing - serifs are the little dash marks at the end of a letter - right?
Like carrying the stroke of a capital D around beyond the vertical line???
Jimmynew
I think will be my name for the Forum's sake.
Newbarberguy- I logged in to your Pelican Collection. Nice write up on your parents born in the period!!! So is yours pedegreed or just named 'The Pelican Collection?'
We're trying to do exactly what you've done; so we can honor our Grandparents and the seriously awesome memories they provided all the cousins.
Any thoughts???
<< <i>Rodius – Thanks, but I don’t understand your statement, “but I cannot find the die marriage in my Overton Book. “ Please explain. >>
A guy by the name of Overton wrote a book cataloging all of the different dies used to make the bust halves. He also documented die marriages which is the combination of an obverse die and a reverse die. Let's just simplify it for sake of conversation. In 1823, they made Obverse A, B, and C as well as Reverse 1,2, and 3. Some of the die marriages could be Obverse A with Reverse 1 or they could have used Obverse A with Reverse 2. Those are just two different die marriages. These marriages are cataloged in the Overton book and are called Overton numbers.
And Jim, yes, serifs are the extra fancy stuff on fonts. The foot and heel if you will of letters. Peg leg Ikes don't have serifs on the R.
19Lyds – I’m now calling-on another one of the “6” to check on the Peg-leg Ike! Interesting… so interesting!
Tonedbuff – your grades on the Maryland’s agree with JimmyJoe. Thanks! And again – leaning the lingo – what’s the definition of a “top pop quality coin.” (Best of the bunch?)
tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right??
Thanks for all the info!
OK… first picture is one I posted in the first thread, just a little better resolution. It’s the 3 proof sets that are in these aftermarket holders. (’36, ’37, ’38) Unfortunately on two sets, you can’t see the reverse – no “rear window”… I’ll be posting-up better/detailed pics of the ’38 set in just a bit…
Next Commemorative(s) in line…
Grade at will!
<< <i>tmot99 – great info… and your explanation of a die marriage makes perfect sense. (It would be very interesting to see the minting process first-hand.) But I wonder what Rodius was trying to “attribute” on that ’32 coin? Something must not look right?? >>
Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense?
<< <i>Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense? >>
Yes... except to me a Obv-A / Rev-1 would be O-101, and your example *should* be O-102 ?? But I guess that's really not the point. What's the significance of a certain marriage? Is it that a certain one produced the best or worst strike? In other words, maybe a 1832 Bust half with a O-202 marriage is the most desired coin to have?? Thanks for taking the time to explain!
OK - these next pictures go out to SanctionII - a few better pictures of the '38 set.
What's with the spots?
A Washington quarter never did much for me - but this one seems to have pretty nice eye-appeal.
Yes - I'd like to bust them out and photo the reverse...
<< <i>
<< <i>Attribution is the process of identifying the correct reference. For example if you have the Obverse A Reverse 2 combination and that marriage is called an O-101 for Overton-101, then the attribution would be O-101. Does that make sense? >>
Yes... except to me a Obv-A / Rev-1 would be O-101, and your example *should* be O-102 ?? But I guess that's really not the point. What's the significance of a certain marriage? Is it that a certain one produced the best or worst strike? In other words, maybe a 1832 Bust half with a O-202 marriage is the most desired coin to have?? Thanks for taking the time to explain! >>
I was just using numbers as an example. There could be many (20 or more) die marriages for any given year. Some collectors collect by die marriage and therefore, if you have a rarer die marriage, it could make it more valuable to those collectors. If the die marriage isn't listed in the major reference book by Overton, then it could be considered a discovery coin and could then again, bring more money. In some cases, the dies on the bust halves were really abused. It seemed that many times, the dies would come together without a blank coin in between. The dies would leave an impression on each other that would then be part of the next coins being struck. This is called a die clash. There are many interesting die clashes within the bust half series. On one, I can't remember exactly which one, you can see the entire reverse on the obverse and the entire obverse on the reverse. Die clashes can be found on any denomination, not just the bust half series.
The silver coins have toned up. I would be tempted to remove the toning if it is negative or neutral.
<< <i>OK. I know I'm new, and Mark you've had the benefit of looking at each piece to see what the Forum guys are saying, but what the heck are 'serifs?' I did go to Dictionary.com B4 writing this; so what I'm guessing - serifs are the little dash marks at the end of a letter - right?
Like carrying the stroke of a capital D around beyond the vertical line???
Jimmynew
I think will be my name for the Forum's sake.
Pretty much.
Serifs are the little tick marks the distinguish some letter types from others. A good example is the diffeence between Ariel and Times Roman.
On the Silver IKE, the serifs are made by sloping the left and right edge of the R so that its base is wider than the middle of the left vertical.
Specifically:
Side by side, they look like this:
Pegleg R on the left ...................................................................... Regular R on the right.
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
The name is LEE!
The New Rochelle's are nice, I'd go MS65 on the first, 64 on the second. Nice coins all around.
Top pop is a coin that is of a matching grade to the highest a grading service has ever graded. So, if they have grated 8 MS67's of something, and you send a coin that grades out as MS67, it is a top pop coin, 8 graded the same, none higher. For the registry collectors, top pop coins are the promised land, and they attract very high bidding since they are the 'best that can be found'.
Ok, it looks like O-113 or O-113a neither are exceptionally rare. There is only one rare die marriage for this date and this isn't it. BUT, I'm not 100% convinced it's 113. Can anyone else lend assistance? I'm fairly certain of reverse J but not obverse 9.
Darth, Jim, and family, don't need to worry about the stuff I just mentioned unless someone comes back and agrees that this isn't obverse die 9.
<< <i>The spots on the 38 proof nickel are probably carbon spots. Difficult if not impossible to remove.
The silver coins have toned up. I would be tempted to remove the toning if it is negative or neutral. >>
Agree on the cent and nickel. They will probably grade 64 at best due to the spots. Pity, because the nickel is rather nicely toned on the obverse. If the reverses of the silver coins look like the obverses, then by no means remove the toning. Removing the proofs from those holders is going to have to be a surgical operation. The last thing you want is for the the plastic sleeve to slide across any of the coins. Those are some high ticket coins, especially the '36 set, and slide marks could do some high ticket damage.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Re: question on pedigree...my set is not pedigreed nor will it ever likely be pedigreed. The Pelican Collection is just a name I tagged it with--it fits the theme of my family's background. To qualify for pedigree, one of the rules (as I understand from the PCGS web page) is the collection must qualify as one of the top five collections. My collection and several others in that category in the registry will never make it that far because we're focusing on mid-grade Barber halves so the weighted GPA of our collection will never out-compete the upper level mint grade coins. If they ever create a category for best ever mid-grade Barber halves we may stand a chance of getting into the top five and qualify for a pedigree. However, getting into the top five is not my goal--nor am I attempting to compete with my other colleagues--I just admire that particular coin and grade and what the collection means to me personally. I think your desire to have your inherited collection pedigreed is a great idea to honor your grandfather, particularly since he was an avid collector and had such a sharp eye for beautiful coins--I would recommend you do an inventory of the whole collection, have the coins certified by PCGS, document your justification for desiring a pediree and appeal to the PCGS board of directors for a decision. They've been know to allow exceptions under special circumstances...and if they approve it, you've added more value and a legacy to the collection. I don't know how many commemoratives you have but if you have a complete collection for a designated period you might be able to quality as "all time finest" in the commemorative series...something to research and ponder.
Even if you don't qualify for a pedigree and you want to honor your grandfather, you can have all the coins graded by PCGS and create a composite collection in the Registry and name it whatever title you desire. That way, it's available for all to see and admire and you've added some validation to his efforts. Of course, if at some point you sell all the coins you'll have to "retire" the collection but you will still have a documented record (with photos) of all your grandfather's efforts. Just an idea. I'm really a new guy in all of this but I'm sure there are numerous other veteran coin collectors out there that can shed some expert insight into all of this...they might like to chime in with their sage advice. Good luck...I wish you much success in this noble effort.
Tonedbuff – thanks again for the (Rochelle) grades, and for the explanation of a “top pop” coin. (Certainly would be exciting if we had one!) Also on the proof set comments. Carbon spots it is, I guess…
Tmot99 – this is interesting on the Bust halves. In addition to the posted ’32 and ’35, we have a ’31, ’33, ’34, and ’36 (all in about the same “shape”.) I’d be interested to know if any of these could possible have a unique die marriage. I have pictures of these others too, and will post if someone says, “Let me see the 1834!” Thanks for taking the time to explain all this!
Athena – Thanks for the compliment!
John(messydesk) and SanctionII – OK, thanks for the comments on the proof set.
I’m thinking that those black holders are going to have to be destroyed in order to get those coins out. On one of the larger coin boards (holding some halves) – I’ve removed a few of those sliding windows in order to get decent pictures. I used a small pair of tweezers to grab the end of the “window” at the edge of the cardboard to start it out. (No pushing down on the plastic (window) over the coin.) I attempted to do the same on one of those proof sets – but the “window” would not move. The proof coins appear to fit very snugly in those holes – like they were pressed in – and I can’t tell, but the coins may actually be in contact with the “window”.
Newbarberguy – wow! I need to re-read your post several more times to digest all that! Thanks for taking the time! Even if we can’t/don’t pedigree – having a “registered” name would seem to be the next best thing to honor our grandparents. I’m going to take a look at your Pelican Collection later this evening. Thanks again!
OK – next Commemorative(s.) I like these – nice design and they appear (to me) to be in great shape.
<< <i>19Lyds – just verified the 3 Ikes we have are “normal” – no peg-legs… >>
EDIT: Lyds - it appears my "sources" were not looking in the right place - seems we do indeed have the peg leg!
The first one is amazing...66+?
Cousin2 here: "Jimmynew"
After seeing your fantastic explanation via photo ("A pic is worth a thous...") on what serifs are: I got my trusty loupe out and looked at the Lyds Grampy gave me. I do in fact have one myself...
This is my day!!!
And Nerbarberguy:
Again, WOW!!! You put some time and thought into your answer, and gave us cousins some valuable insight and ideas. Naming the collection may be our "Plan B." should the pedegree plan fall through, but once the PCGS sees the set of Commems maybe we will have a shot.
JIM
Re the proof coins in the black holder: Personally, I strongly urge you to keep the coins in the holder and not try to remove them. Wait until you at the auction house and/or with experienced sellers. I don't think there is a "trick" to removing the coins, but I'd sure hate to damage one out of my ignorance. I think that if there is some best method for remving the coins, the experienced sellers will know it so I'd let them remove the coins. Plus I'd also hate to remove a coin and then harm it when it is loose. It's generally safer to work with your MS coins but your proof coins appear to be very nice and they tend to be more delicate.
Keep those fan-frickin-tastic photos coming!!!
Your favorite cous
tmot99
You know your 'Busts' don't you?
I spent a lot of time researching while in college, but you guys here are incredible!!! Hats off 2-ya. One could spend a lifetime apparently just learning about the inferences/nuances on Bust Halves.
Has anyone heard from 'Barndog' (our resident Mission Impossible guy) who helped Mark in the beginning authenticate that this collection is real from the last thread?
Hey,
For grins & giggles, when we make the movie, can Tom Cruise play Barndog?
<< <i>Hey,
For grins & giggles, when we make the movie, can Tom Cruise play Barndog? >>
LOL, you on BD's payroll or something?
Cladiator:
Might as well be. He did do something straight of James Bond as far as we cousns are concerned.
<< <i>Cladiator:
Might as well be. He did do something straight of James Bond as far as we cousns are concerned. >>
I feel a new nickname for BD being birthed as we speak.
Oh Crap:
Hope he's not pissed...
<< <i>Oh Crap:
Hope he's not pissed... >>
Oh man, you know what happens when BD gets mad!
If the family decides to submit the Commems for grading, it will be a real treat to see what grades are assigned to the coins. Definitely a large number of GEMS (65 grade or better) in the collection, plus probably some SUPER GEMS (67 or better grade if I recall).
I am sure this thread and the first thread are being read by persons at PCGS (they probably are fascinated with this story also). It would be interesting to have HRH or other higher ups post their own reply(ies) to this thread giving their own thoughts on Grandfather's collection and the fun/excitement it has generated.
Some believe its a result of die polish while others believe its some of Frank Gasparro's modifications to the die known as Frank's Prank's. Regardless of the reasoning, the coin is extremely difficult to come by.
I went to your website Ikes w/ Varieties tagged onto your post. Would you indulge me with an explanation too on the differences of the 1972 1, 2, & 3?
I'd like to know which one I have of the three that is in fact a "Peg Leg." and thanks again for making my day!!!
JIM
Oh man, you know what happens when BD gets mad!
No. Do I have reason 2B worried?