When it comes time to divide things up, may I suggest that each person gets to choose an item or two of comparable value to keep in memory of Dusty. The rest you can sell and split the procedes.
Animalkeeper – I’ll throw in proof pics every once in a while to break-up the commems.
Carl – thanks for all the comments. (I’m taking notes.)
Coindeuce – it’s great to see your coin in a 65 holder! The commems we’ve got vary tremendously in (as I guess it’s called) skinning and toning. Some of our commems don't appear too attractive to me, but I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder... Plus I guess no matter what the "toning" - it makes it unique. Nice coin!
Garrow – right. There’s no doubt each of us will take several items as keepsakes. My feeling also (as I’ve told the others) is that any one of us should be allowed “first rights” on any big items. For instance – I just may HAVE to deduct (the going rate/value) for the OST that started this whole thing…
jmski52 – I sure can’t remember. I’ll be taking a closer look at things when time permits.
OK – next coin(s). I’m not sure if there’s any cause for concern with the “toning” on this first Bridgeport - especially the reverse. Second coin is cleaner in appearance, but yes… P.T. Barnum is indeed "wounded" on the cheekbone - plus I see evidence of "harsh cleaning" on the reverse. Maybe these are not very desirable coins...
edit: Oh - so any guesses on the grade of that Columbian?
Darth, sorry to disagree with you here, but nope, no signs of cleaning on the PTBarnum pieces, just nice original skin and tone. As for the random bagmark, yes, but not "awful" - not every coin can be of superlative gem quality you know! Some are just merely choice to gem.
Your cleaner (not "cleaned" but "cleaner" meaning fewer marks - have to be specific!) PT Barnum is still an easy MS-65 IMO. The one with the mark on the cheek is noticeable - probably MS-63 on that one, perhaps a shot at 64.
For what you see as cleaning on the rev. of one of your Barnum/bridgeports Darth, it seems to be die polish if anything, and not much of it, from the pic. In any case, the surfaces are very nice on both (even with the cheekmark on the one) and both have the ever-desirable "original skin".
<< <i>Darth, sorry to disagree with you here, but nope, no signs of cleaning on the PTBarnum pieces, just nice original skin and tone. PT Barnum is still an easy MS-65 IMO. The one with the mark on the cheek is noticeable - probably MS-63 on that one, perhaps a shot at 64. >>
Sorry to disagree with me? I’m the one learning here. OK – I think I knew this but needed the reminder – you’re saying “clean” has nothing to do with dirt/spots/general color differences. By “clean”, you mean to look through all that, and judge the coin solely on lack of nicks/dings/marks and how well it’s struck?? That said – I still see what resembles the “rub” on the Columbian – on the reverse of the Bridgeport II (below United States, just above the bird’s back.) Shows my lack of experience.... Thanks for the grades!
OK…. next coin. I’ll post up a “triplicate”. (Maybe I posted #1 in the original thread, but I have 3 Columbia South Carolina Sesquicentennials.) Here they are – please grade away! My spreadsheet is open!
Maybe you can start a coin photo album on photobucket or a similar image hosting site then we can see more than one or two coins at a time! You all should have a family reunion at your grandparents house, if it's still there, if you have such great memories of your times there; you can bet other family members have great memories from there also!
You really should get a halogen (bankers) lamp to see if the lines are raised or incuse. If raised die polish and the 2nd CT will grade around 64. If the lines are incuse it probably was cleaned and would not grade at PCGS. Even if that is the case it is still so nice I would send it to ANACS. The coin is awesome and could be super grade except for that unfortunate cut in Barnum's cheek which is the main focal point of the obverse. The toning is not a distraction for me at all.
I think that 1st CT coin is MS 66. These coins have been stored and have developed a patina (a layer of toning) that we like because it shows us the coin hasn't been messed with for a very long time. However the 2nd CT may have been cleaned before your Grandfather bought it and now has been toned over. Or it may be die polish.
I would have the same question about the reverse of the 3rd SC. By the way they are not triplicates. You have one SC from each mint, Philadelphia (no mint mark), San Francisco (mint mark s) and Denver (d). They only minted about 9,000 of the Ps and 8,000 of the others. Neat!
To me most all commems I've seen photos of are MS 65 (Gem) or 66 (Gem+) unless those lines are evidence of a very old cleaning. If I saw them in hand I might even venture a 67 if the coin moved me.
<<I just may HAVE to deduct (the going rate/value) for the OST that started this whole thing…>>
Oh, you must. I have the feeling that there is a numismatist hidden inside of you.
Carl's advice is good Darth. Not much more I can say other than it's very impressive, the know-how you've picked up on the fly. We'll turn you into an expert numismatist and you won't hardly realize it.
Oh and Darth, you may be right on your assessment of the "rub" on the eagle - it's hard to say from the pic. If just from minor coin-to-coin contact, it wouldn't preclude it from grading mint state. But, given enough such friction, it can result in a "very nice" technically AU-58 coin - theoretically, think of that as 98% unc, or it's an UNC coin, but with a spot of rub. Still a very desirable coin to a collector, but not at the value of a gem unc. Though these days, some would disagree with that (prices bein' kinda high! )
garsmith – sorry… I do have a photobucket – but the idea here is for me to be able to keep up! If I post all pics at once, I’ll never get them “free graded”! Quid-pro-quo, baby!
Carl – again… great information. Thanks. And believe it or not – I did know the SCs were a set from the 3 mints – just meant I had 3 SCs – or maybe I was testing you guys… lol!
grabba – yeah, a fingerprint was the first thing that came to my mind. But I don’t know??
Tbar – thanks again for the to-the-point grading guesses. My spreadsheet is looking good! Your comment about them being stored and handled well. I want to say that it’s possible… that many were bought in the 30s, stored, and then not really handled at all since that time – except for an occasional glance from the closet decade to decade. They sat in a very dry climate (New Mexico) for over a half century!
Original – just my untrained “call it as I see it” guess. I’ll certainly rely much more on your (Collector Forum) opinions than mine!
OK – next coin. (Maybe the last before Daylight Savings Time.) I think this one is kinda cool…
Son of a gun. Look at that great Connecticut! I only see one mark of any consequence on that coin, the one beneath the E on the obverse. MS66 is my guess, or the nicest 65 I've ever seen, with that same incredible skin to boot. That ought to be upwards of a $900 coin or so. Very handsome.
Welcome back, Darth Your grandfather's collection is always a pleasure to view. I'm in NM, and there was a Dusty Rhodes around here who was in the insurance business.
<< <i>Son of a gun. Look at that great Connecticut! I only see one mark of any consequence on that coin, the one beneath the E on the obverse. MS66 is my guess, or the nicest 65 I've ever seen, with that same incredible skin to boot. That ought to be upwards of a $900 coin or so. Very handsome. >>
Darth, what a great thread. The Conecticut looks easy 66 to me. Other than the Alabama and Columbian each of the commems should be submitted. I agree with the grades previously posted on the South Carolina set as well.
I am sorry to have somehow missed the first thread so I will go back and read it today. Speaking of Grandfathers, today happens to be my Grandfathers 97th birthday. He doesn't have much in the way of a collection, although I did recieve from him many years ago a few indian cents he had. He does have a 1910-S and 1914-S Barber Half still, representing the birth years of my Grandparents. My Grandmother passed away January 2, 2000 at the age of 85. I bought those two half dollars and gave them as Christmas presents 31 years ago at the age of 12. Later this afternoon I think I will haul those out, as my Aunt who is the caretaker and my Grandfather are here now in a house I moved them into a couple of years ago. I will tell the story a bit and post those 2 halves in its own thread for some of you to enjoy that might like to hear it.
I will keep checking back as I appreciate the thread and effort of the photos and will offer my view of grades along the way. By the way thanks for sharing as well.
Coinboy – I believe it was Tonedbuff who told me PVC looks like greenish spots, or maybe even mold-like. I can’t say I’ve seen anything like that – but again, I don’t really know how to tell or what to look for.
Mirabela (and Tbar) – I guess prices have gone up. I have a “2006 Guide to U.S. Coins,” and it shows $700 for a CT at 66. Wow!
Auld – must have been one of the other hundred or so “Dusty Rhodes”. While he did run track in High School and at L.S.U. for a few years, I don’t believe he ever played baseball, wrestled, or sold insurance…
Glenn – thanks for the great comments. Wow! 97 years old! My grandfather was 89. What a cool story about giving your grandparents coins 31 years ago and getting them back. I’ll check for your pics and more on your story in your thread! Thanks again!
OK – just a random pic for variety. One coin board contained 5 Bust Halves – ’31, ’32, ’34, ’35, ’36.
I’ll post-up the next commemorative shortly – a set of Fess Parkers. (Does that show my age?)
Great to see you've come back again. The coins are wonderful to look through, and I'm happy for you that things have gone well with your extended family.
Thanks for taking the time to provide us with the scans--the commems are sweet!
I was going to post this last night, but a 6-hour power outage stopped that… Here are a few better shots of one of the ’41 proof sets. I didn’t flip through to photograph each coin, as it seemed the bags/staple might come apart (which for some reason at that point I didn’t want that to happen.) This one sure appears to me that it’s been sitting like this since issued from the mint in ’41.
I, one of the cousins of the "Recently Acquired Coin Collection -The Return" am very appreciative of all the help you have given Mark, 'Darth5oh.' He has done some phenominal work for the 5 others who have also been blessed with the collection. I think your help to him has spawned another collector in him. The collection has been the catalyst for us to get together again possibly back in Carlsbad where our Grandparents lived.
AS a whole we cousins have decided to sell, but are definitely taking our time. I envy the avid coin collectors out there who have the opportunity to get some of these because the only way to be fair to the cousin group is to sell and split it evenly per the wishes of my grandfather. When we get the ones that are worth being slabbed and graded, we'll have a great estimate of their true market value so we can buy the ones we want, or reduce the amount we would have gotten by the value of the pieces we choose to have.
My grandfather was such an honorable man. When my gandmother; 'Grammy' as we called her, was sick and had to go to a nursing home, 'Grampy' went down every single day and sat with her almost all day. The nurses loved him.
Darth5oh mentioned there was one of the cousins fortunate enough to sit down with our grandfather and the collectiion. that was me. I remember 2 huge boxes of just rolled coin stacked in rows by denomination in the guest bedroom closet. The envelopes the Proof sets came in are still in their original envelopes mailed from the mint - most of which were untouched for years.
We were joking among us through e-mails that one of the cousins added their 'blue' artistic flair to the Silver Certificates. LOL IT WASN'T ME!!! )
Anyway, thanks for all your help here on the forum. I have learned a lot too just by going through what seems to be an endless thread.
Unexpected treasures are always the best. Thanks for coming back and we would love to hear more about a collection that must of brought your grandfather alot of joy.
PEACE! This is the first day of the rest of your life.
<< <i>I, one of the cousins of the "Recently Acquired Coin Collection -The Return" am very appreciative of all the help you have given Mark, 'Darth5oh.' He has done some phenominal work for the 5 others who have also been blessed with the collection. I think your help to him has spawned another collector in him. The collection has been the catalyst for us to get together again possibly back in Carlsbad where our Grandparents lived.
AS a whole we cousins have decided to sell, but are definitely taking our time. I envy the avid coin collectors out there who have the opportunity to get some of these because the only way to be fair to the cousin group is to sell and split it evenly per the wishes of my grandfather. When we get the ones that are worth being slabbed and graded, we'll have a great estimate of their true market value so we can buy the ones we want, or reduce the amount we would have gotten by the value of the pieces we choose to have.
My grandfather was such an honorable man. When my gandmother; 'Grammy' as we called her, was sick and had to go to a nursing home, 'Grampy' went down every single day and sat with her almost all day. The nurses loved him.
Darth5oh mentioned there was one of the cousins fortunate enough to sit down with our grandfather and the collectiion. that was me. I remember 2 huge boxes of just rolled coin stacked in rows by denomination in the guest bedroom closet. The envelopes the Proof sets came in are still in their original envelopes mailed from the mint - most of which were untouched for years.
We were joking among us through e-mails that one of the cousins added their 'blue' artistic flair to the Silver Certificates. LOL IT WASN'T ME!!! )
Anyway, thanks for all your help here on the forum. I have learned a lot too just by going through what seems to be an endless thread.
Cousin2 >>
Nice first post and welcome to the boards. Darth got a lot of grief from the start from some here when he first posted about this collection. Most of the knowledgeable ones (longtimers) here have all seen the "recently acquired collection" threads turn into a coffee can of mostly junk silver. Also, they have seen the bogus threads posted by people or trolls looking for a thrill to rile the serious collectors here.
To actually see and read the thread as it developed and finally verified by a respectable poster here was pretty thrilling to say the least. Your grandfather definitely knew how to collect and preserve coins for the future generations of you all. My hat goes to him and the legacy that he has left.
We all hang on every picture and commentary Darth posts in hopes of seeing further into your grandfather's life as a collector. Your grandfather sounds a lot like mine minus the coins. Very few people are able to see into the future and imagine what a collection like this can achieve. Hopefully, you all can agree what must go and what must stay and also maybe getting a pedigree holder as a tribute to him.
I check this thread everyday to see what has developed and in the hopes of glimpsing additional coins that didn't make it on the first thread. Take it slow and be deliberate but cautious. It has been awe inspiring at least to me to wonder what if my grandfather had left something like this collection to me and my siblings.
Thanks to you both - grabba & konahead. Yea I look forward to the pics too. Grampy was one of those people who was always inventing and/or building trying to get his inventions patented in hopes of making it BIG!!! He knew what he was getting and always said to me, "Buy and hold when it comes to coins." When I sat with him and the collection he would tell me never to take the original packaging off the coins and never touch them with bare hands.
To be sure, he definitely knew what he was doing. I still have several coins he gave to me - several Eisenhower Dollars - one 1972 D, one Bi-Centennial D, and a 1964 JFK D half dollar. Since this thread started I have now put them all in protective plastic coin discs in hopes of preserving them from any further damage. I treasure them more now even if they're not worth squat from mishandling.
We have tossed around the idea of pedigreeing the coins. The 'Dusty Rhodes Collection' name seemed catchy to me, but it leaves our Grandmother's name out. And too, from what I gathered from the thread, that name could stir several different memories - not all of which are positive.
It is paramount to us all that our Grandparents be revered and esteemed. Even more important, that they be proud of how we handled their gift. The finest childhood memories we all have are our summers with them in Carlsbad. I grin ear-to-ear when I think of some of them, moreover that we survived. (Darth, you know which ones!!!) )
Again, you guys/gals have been awesome here on the forum.
I second the motion? More pics!!! Even though I'm family, I'm too far away to see them in person.
I have enjoyed your grandfather's collection and the threads and pictures it has generated on the forums. Please post more if you desire; and have Darth5oh post more pics.
The proof set looks nice. Most have been removed from the original packaging because the staple often rusted and the coins could get damaged. Many dealers would dip the toning off yours before sending them in for grading. It looks like they would grade well.
The Delaware looks nice with the nice skin and very few marks that I have come to expect of the Commemoratives from this collection. It has a planchet flaw or two but these were on the coin as it left the mint so shouldn't hurt the grade. It seems Gem (65) or better.
If you certify the Commems you could enter them in a Registry set and then have them pedigreed. Since the quality and look is so nice and consistent among them I would recommend doing this.
Hey Jim! (Cousin2) I was wondering if any of you guys were going to “sign-up” and chime in. (Someone in a PM actually complimented me on my writing skills?? But wow – I believe I have just been dethroned! )
I must admit… a couple reasons I started this second thread were for my own (maybe even selfish) reasons. One is that I feel bad I didn’t get everyone on-board soon enough to enjoy the initial thrill (and frenzy) that I got to experience in the first thread. I guessed this thread would certainly not explode like the first, but I’m glad you (and the other 4) are able to read and share in a lot of these great comments as they happen. I know I joked with garsmith about, “something for something” - getting coin grades in return for more pictures – which is the wrong approach. Again, I wanted the other (5) to enjoy this thread for a least a few days – keep the pace a little slower – which is the main reason I didn’t dump all the pics out at once. (Besides - I honestly have quite a bit of cropping and resizing to do before I can post them.) So thanks for your comments, Jim. I could NOT have said it better.
Top priorities for this thread are 1.) Honor our grandparents. 2.) Post as many pictures as possible to collectors here who might enjoy seeing them (in honor of my grandparents – and parents.) As I said before – Grampy would just be beside himself with all this attention and reading these wonderful comments! Back in the first thread, SanctionII suggested I save all the posts/comments. I did that, and will do the same here. This thread continues to have great comments AND great information.
I mentioned in January my father did a couple short write-ups on my grandparents. Here is the first : “The Early Years” - a short summary with no mention of the collection.
Also – two Elgins. (Again, I posted the first one in thread 1, but here are both to compare.) I’ll go ahead a post another coin set very shortly – with my father’s second writeup.
====================================================================================== Years 1903 – 1929
Grampy was the oldest of seven brothers and sisters, and they grew up in Baton Rouge, LA. During many of those early years, money, food and clothing were in short supply and he told me that many times when they bought a quart of milk his mother would add water so that everyone would have some milk to drink. [Mamaw, as we called her, may have been the inventor of the first “low fat” milk. Papaw, his dad, worked as a laborer for the Standard Oil Refinery which later became the Exxon Refinery (I believe)].
Grampy played football and ran track while in high school and college but dropped out of LSU after two years to help support the family. As far as I remember, all of his brothers and sisters graduated from college and in large part it was because Grampy worked. They all called him “brother” as a sign of love and respect that they had for him. The lack of a college degree bothered him for the rest of his life and that is why he pushed his two sons and six grandkids to get a college degree.
During the late 20’s he had a job on a geophysical survey crew traveling throughout Louisiana and Texas prospecting for oil. They used dynamite charges buried in the ground to send shock waves into the earth, and the echo of these blasts, when read on a series of seismograph stations, could tell the chief geologist on the crew where the best locations were to find oil. While working on this job in Lake Charles, he met Grammy in 1929, and after a brief courtship, they eloped and got married. Grammy’s mother (called Granny by all of her grandkids) was extremely upset that her daughter ran off with this man “who just wasn’t good enough for her youngest daughter”. I believe that Grampy tried all his life to prove that Granny was wrong and before she died in the mid 40’s, I think she forgave him. ============================================================================================
Edit - looks like I posted the first obverse twice... here's the correct one! (Edit again - I mean reverse??)
Nice story. Wouldn't it be cool if you could put together a custom wall mount of some sort that would allow you to present key bits of this story along with some properly displayed coins (sort of museum like, but neat, I'd think). In a lot of ways, the collection provides a nice counterpoint to the hard working life it sounds like he was living, giving him that 'one thing' that was all his, and that he could do as well as the wealthy guy down the street (and well did he do just that). That Elgin looks to be a nice 63 to me. Too many scuffs and marks to hit 64 I'd think, but the TPG's will grade as they will... so you never know. Second elgin may be a 64. Photo may not be clear, but there looks to be something going on in the hair on the obverse...
Grabba – thanks for taking the time to write all that. As I said before, I enjoy reading, and then re-reading everyone’s comments from time to time.
Tonedbuff – sounds like a neat idea! Great comments. (And I updated the Elgin pics – there are indeed 2 coins! Thanks for the grade guess!)
Here is my father’s second write-up. I really didn’t plan this until I realized it from my previous post. My father mentioned my grandfather had several Civil War heroes, and alphabetically on my list – the next commemorative is the Gettysburg Blue and Gray Reunion. Maybe that’s why he had 3.
================================================================================================ Years 1930 – 1940 The beginning of the coin collection
The depression and stock market crash may have influenced Grampy to put any savings he and Grammy had into something tangible (coins) that he would have forever. I remember sitting at our dining room table while he looked over his small collection. Bob and I knew not to touch or mishandle the coins, and we knew very early in our lives that this was an important part of his life. Most of the proof sets were purchased from the mint. I don’t know where or when he purchased the commemoratives, but every time he brought out the collection, there were more coins.
I believe that one of his coworkers at the Chicago & Northwestern RR in St Paul encouraged him to start his coin collection, and this person may have been familiar with the proof sets and commemoratives. Sometimes I think that Grampy just liked the look of a coin, admiring the physical beauty. General Robert E. Lee, the Confederate General, was one of his heroes, so some of the commemoratives were purchased because of the state’s or person’s connection to the Civil War. Several of the coins were gifts from people who Grammy and Grampy helped, or fed, or befriended, or loaned money to. [The South African gold piece (Krugerand) was one of these.]
These early years were kind of the “wandering” years. We moved from St. Paul to Baton Rouge and back to St. Paul while Grampy worked at one job or another. One of his jobs was running a convenience (7-11 type) store for a brother in law in Baton Rouge. The store was on Airline Hwy north of Florida Blvd, and in those days there was only open swamp land behind the store. Bob and I nearly set the whole area ablaze when some of our fire crackers accidentally set a large tree on fire.
On one of these trips, while we were singing songs, Grampy asked Grammy to sing the New Mexico State Song which went something like..
Oh fair New Mexico We love, we love you so Our hearts with pride o’erflow No matter where we go
Grammy got through the first several lines and then she began to sob. Grampy pulled off the road to comfort her and Bob and I thought that this might be the “end” and we would become orphans left in some city between Baton Rouge and St. Paul. I believe that this day marked the day when Grammy decided that someday soon, we would go back to her home in Carlsbad, and we would quit traveling all over the country and we would have a real home and Grampy would find a real job and stick to it, and maybe he would sell some of his silly coins and we would be able to afford some furniture, etc.…
I think Grammy was just homesick, but the whole episode is still etched in my mind. It was the first time I remember seeing her cry and it made me realize how much she missed New Mexico and her family and how lonely she must have been since many of Grampy’s jobs took him away from the family. However, in all of this turmoil, Grampy never sold any coins and continued to add to the collection. John =================================================================================================
3 Gettysburgs! That first looks great. Maybe a 66, certainly a PQ65. The second has the big ding in the shield which hold it to 63, I'd think, and the final looks to be a nice 65. Really great looking original coins. Part of what makes these commems desirable is how well matched they are from being stored in the same conditions. They have a nice matching 'skin'. Many collectors work very hard to find coins that look well together, and have similar attributes (toning, luster, etc).
This is a great thread. I read the original one when it was posted and am glad you returned. I eagerly sit on the edge of my seat as pictures of the collection and stories unfold. Are you certain that grampy would want this sold or did he want it to be a family heirloom passed on to future generations as a whole.
Tonedbuff – again... Thanks for the comments and grades. This is lots of fun filling-in the blanks on my spreadsheet. Once completed, we’ll be able to at least take a stab at the value of the collection. Yikes!
SanctionII – OK… I’ll cut, crop, upload, and post a ’37 proof set tonight. (Did you see the ’41 pics on the last page? I kinda thought those were… well… pretty neat. ) I have not yet ventured to remove any proof coins from the baggies. Sorry I don’t have any pics like that…
Keez – thanks! No explicit instructions were given to my knowledge. While at this point we are in agreement on what direction to take – who knows with time?? We cousins haven’t had a paw-wow in over a decade, and nothing is going to happen until all of us get together (in person) to discuss AND view the entire collection. We reserve the right to change our minds at any point! Lol…
I don't collect commems... Is that big cud on the third Gettysburg common? I searched the Heritage archives for "Gettysburg cud" and didn't find anything listed (I don't want to review all 639 lots by hand, either)
A coin has raised design elements. It is struck from a die that has corresponding design elements that are cut into the face of the die, rather than raised above it. When the die (with sunken design) is pressed into a flat piece of metal, the coin design flows into the sunken part of the die, becoming raised.
Got that so far?
Now consider what happens if someone drops the die so that a piece chips off the edge. The chipped-off piece of the die is now another "sunken" (that is, entirely missing) design element. Any coin struck from that die will have an additional raised area that shouldn't have been there. In fact, *every* coin struck from that die will have a *matching* additional raised area, since the chipped-off piece isn't about to reappear.
Cuds are not heavily collected, but they do add a rarity factor because the mint tends to stop using the dies when they get damaged. That's especially true for commemoratives, which typicallyhad lower mintages and higher quality control than circulating coins.
Look at the "75" at about 10:00 on your first two coins. That's how it should look, with the "75" clearly raised above the field and clearly separated from the rim. Now look at the same thin in the third picture. That's a cud.
In terms of value: probably nothing significant over the regular value of the commem. But it get's a "Huh, look at that" comment at least. There's a (very slight) chance that this is a new discovery, which might get it a slight premium if you could find the right buyer, which would probably not be worth the effort.
Just looked at the pics of the 1941 proof set. If the coins are in the original mint cello and there is no evidence of the coins ever having been removed from the original government packaging, then I would not remove same if you and your family have decided to sell the proof sets unslabbed [you could expect to obtain a higher price if the coins in the sets have never been removed from the original government packaging because some buyers crave "originality"]. If you do not want to sell the proof sets raw [and instead want to keep them or slab them before selling them] removing them from the original government packaging should be done [so you can get a better idea of how nice they are looking at them without the cello blocking the view; and so you can put them in storage containers that will minimze the risk of damage to the coins now that they are being inspected and handled by people instead of simply sitting in a box or closet].
In any event, if the proofs ever come out of the cello envelopes, please post pics of same under good lighting [halogen]. I for one would love to see high quality pics of the coins in the 36-42 proof sets, out of the cello. I am sure they have toned up. Some toning may be very attractive, adding to the quality and value of the coins. Some toning may be negative, detracting from the quality and value of the coins [in which case a dip or other appropriate treatment to remove the toning in a manner that does not damage the coins would be in order]. Some toning may be neutral, in which case removing same or allowing it to remain is a toss up decision. (The toning on the pictured 1941 half [which BTW looks very nice with no noticeable marks/blemishes] looks very typical of silver proofs that have remained in the cello envelopes for years. To me this type of toning is neutral or negative. If I owned the coin I would closely inspect same to see if the coin is of high grade with few blemishes, watery mirrored fields and/or frosted devices under the toning. If so, the removal of the toning would enhance the coin and I would remove it).
This thread and the original thread are two of the most enjoyable threads that have been posted to the US Coin Forum since I joined in 8-2004. The coin pics and the enjoyment/excitement for your family and for forumites arising from the collecting efforts of your grandfather is the best part of the whole thing. On top of that, it is nice to see a family that inherits an old time collection put themselves in a position where they educate themselves on what they have and thus avoid disposing of the collection for a fraction of its value when it is finally sold.
Like many of your other pics Darth, the Gettysburgs are really choice, and one of the scarcer and more popular commem types. A nice way to document the collection would be - if it's partially or completely ever sold - would be to associate prices realized with the photos you've taken.
Comments
When it comes time to divide things up, may I suggest that each person gets to choose an item or two of comparable value to keep in memory of Dusty. The rest you can sell and split the procedes.
Garrow
I knew it would happen.
Carl – thanks for all the comments. (I’m taking notes.)
Coindeuce – it’s great to see your coin in a 65 holder! The commems we’ve got vary tremendously in (as I guess it’s called) skinning and toning. Some of our commems don't appear too attractive to me, but I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder... Plus I guess no matter what the "toning" - it makes it unique. Nice coin!
Garrow – right. There’s no doubt each of us will take several items as keepsakes. My feeling also (as I’ve told the others) is that any one of us should be allowed “first rights” on any big items. For instance – I just may HAVE to deduct (the going rate/value) for the OST that started this whole thing…
jmski52 – I sure can’t remember. I’ll be taking a closer look at things when time permits.
OK – next coin(s). I’m not sure if there’s any cause for concern with the “toning” on this first Bridgeport - especially the reverse. Second coin is cleaner in appearance, but yes… P.T. Barnum is indeed "wounded" on the cheekbone - plus I see evidence of "harsh cleaning" on the reverse. Maybe these are not very desirable coins...
edit: Oh - so any guesses on the grade of that Columbian?
Your cleaner (not "cleaned" but "cleaner" meaning fewer marks - have to be specific!) PT Barnum is still an easy MS-65 IMO. The one with the mark on the cheek is noticeable - probably MS-63 on that one, perhaps a shot at 64.
Great stuff, and nice to see your posts.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Darth, sorry to disagree with you here, but nope, no signs of cleaning on the PTBarnum pieces, just nice original skin and tone. PT Barnum is still an easy MS-65 IMO. The one with the mark on the cheek is noticeable - probably MS-63 on that one, perhaps a shot at 64. >>
Sorry to disagree with me? I’m the one learning here.
OK…. next coin. I’ll post up a “triplicate”. (Maybe I posted #1 in the original thread, but I have 3 Columbia South Carolina Sesquicentennials.) Here they are – please grade away! My spreadsheet is open!
Columbia SC 1:
Columbia SC 2:
Columbia SC 3:
Welcome back
I think that 1st CT coin is MS 66. These coins have been stored and have developed a patina (a layer of toning) that we like because it shows us the coin hasn't been messed with for a very long time. However the 2nd CT may have been cleaned before your Grandfather bought it and now has been toned over. Or it may be die polish.
I would have the same question about the reverse of the 3rd SC. By the way they are not triplicates. You have one SC from each mint, Philadelphia (no mint mark), San Francisco (mint mark s) and Denver (d). They only minted about 9,000 of the Ps and 8,000 of the others. Neat!
To me most all commems I've seen photos of are MS 65 (Gem) or 66 (Gem+) unless those lines are evidence of a very old cleaning. If I saw them in hand I might even venture a 67 if the coin moved me.
<<I just may HAVE to deduct (the going rate/value) for the OST that started this whole thing…>>
Oh, you must. I have the feeling that there is a numismatist hidden inside of you.
Does the S have a fingerprint?
Nice set anyway you look at it!
#2...ms-64/65
SC #1 ms-66
#2 ms-64 with an old fingerprint maybe.
#3 ms-65 couple spots on the reverse otherwise 66
Just my opinions.
I can't get over the original skin on these coins, and the consistency from one to the next. They were stored, and handled very well.
Take care and great to see your posts.
Carl – again… great information. Thanks. And believe it or not – I did know the SCs were a set from the 3 mints – just meant I had 3 SCs – or maybe I was testing you guys… lol!
grabba – yeah, a fingerprint was the first thing that came to my mind. But I don’t know??
Tbar – thanks again for the to-the-point grading guesses. My spreadsheet is looking good! Your comment about them being stored and handled well. I want to say that it’s possible… that many were bought in the 30s, stored, and then not really handled at all since that time – except for an occasional glance from the closet decade to decade. They sat in a very dry climate (New Mexico) for over a half century!
Original – just my untrained “call it as I see it” guess. I’ll certainly rely much more on your (Collector Forum) opinions than mine!
OK – next coin. (Maybe the last before Daylight Savings Time.) I think this one is kinda cool…
Your grandfather's collection is always a pleasure to view.
I'm in NM, and there was a Dusty Rhodes around here who was in the insurance business.
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
<< <i>Son of a gun. Look at that great Connecticut! I only see one mark of any consequence on that coin, the one beneath the E on the obverse. MS66 is my guess, or the nicest 65 I've ever seen, with that same incredible skin to boot. That ought to be upwards of a $900 coin or so. Very handsome. >>
Great example of a very popular coin.
I am sorry to have somehow missed the first thread so I will go back and read it today. Speaking of Grandfathers, today happens to be my Grandfathers 97th birthday. He doesn't have much in the way of a collection, although I did recieve from him many years ago a few indian cents he had. He does have a 1910-S and 1914-S Barber Half still, representing the birth years of my Grandparents. My Grandmother passed away January 2, 2000 at the age of 85. I bought those two half dollars and gave them as Christmas presents 31 years ago at the age of 12. Later this afternoon I think I will haul those out, as my Aunt who is the caretaker and my Grandfather are here now in a house I moved them into a couple of years ago. I will tell the story a bit and post those 2 halves in its own thread for some of you to enjoy that might like to hear it.
I will keep checking back as I appreciate the thread and effort of the photos and will offer my view of grades along the way. By the way thanks for sharing as well.
Glenn
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
Mirabela (and Tbar) – I guess prices have gone up. I have a “2006 Guide to U.S. Coins,” and it shows $700 for a CT at 66. Wow!
Auld – must have been one of the other hundred or so “Dusty Rhodes”. While he did run track in High School and at L.S.U. for a few years, I don’t believe he ever played baseball, wrestled, or sold insurance…
Glenn – thanks for the great comments. Wow! 97 years old! My grandfather was 89. What a cool story about giving your grandparents coins 31 years ago and getting them back. I’ll check for your pics and more on your story in your thread! Thanks again!
OK – just a random pic for variety. One coin board contained 5 Bust Halves – ’31, ’32, ’34, ’35, ’36.
I’ll post-up the next commemorative shortly – a set of Fess Parkers. (Does that show my age?)
all 65-66
#2 -if it weren't for the hit on the Indians arm I wouldn't be shocked to see it in a 67 holder.
awesome coins.
Great to see you've come back again. The coins are wonderful to look through, and I'm happy for you that things have gone well with your extended family.
Thanks for taking the time to provide us with the scans--the commems are sweet!
Wishing you all the best!
And thanks for the well-wishes, 53BKid!
I was going to post this last night, but a 6-hour power outage stopped that… Here are a few better shots of one of the ’41 proof sets. I didn’t flip through to photograph each coin, as it seemed the bags/staple might come apart (which for some reason at that point I didn’t want that to happen.) This one sure appears to me that it’s been sitting like this since issued from the mint in ’41.
End of workday pics. Please post your grade opinion if possible. Thanks!
AS a whole we cousins have decided to sell, but are definitely taking our time. I envy the avid coin collectors out there who have the opportunity to get some of these because the only way to be fair to the cousin group is to sell and split it evenly per the wishes of my grandfather. When we get the ones that are worth being slabbed and graded, we'll have a great estimate of their true market value so we can buy the ones we want, or reduce the amount we would have gotten by the value of the pieces we choose to have.
My grandfather was such an honorable man. When my gandmother; 'Grammy' as we called her, was sick and had to go to a nursing home, 'Grampy' went down every single day and sat with her almost all day. The nurses loved him.
Darth5oh mentioned there was one of the cousins fortunate enough to sit down with our grandfather and the collectiion. that was me. I remember 2 huge boxes of just rolled coin stacked in rows by denomination in the guest bedroom closet. The envelopes the Proof sets came in are still in their original envelopes mailed from the mint - most of which were untouched for years.
We were joking among us through e-mails that one of the cousins added their 'blue' artistic flair to the Silver Certificates. LOL IT WASN'T ME!!!
Anyway, thanks for all your help here on the forum. I have learned a lot too just by going through what seems to be an endless thread.
Cousin2
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>I, one of the cousins of the "Recently Acquired Coin Collection -The Return" am very appreciative of all the help you have given Mark, 'Darth5oh.' He has done some phenominal work for the 5 others who have also been blessed with the collection. I think your help to him has spawned another collector in him. The collection has been the catalyst for us to get together again possibly back in Carlsbad where our Grandparents lived.
AS a whole we cousins have decided to sell, but are definitely taking our time. I envy the avid coin collectors out there who have the opportunity to get some of these because the only way to be fair to the cousin group is to sell and split it evenly per the wishes of my grandfather. When we get the ones that are worth being slabbed and graded, we'll have a great estimate of their true market value so we can buy the ones we want, or reduce the amount we would have gotten by the value of the pieces we choose to have.
My grandfather was such an honorable man. When my gandmother; 'Grammy' as we called her, was sick and had to go to a nursing home, 'Grampy' went down every single day and sat with her almost all day. The nurses loved him.
Darth5oh mentioned there was one of the cousins fortunate enough to sit down with our grandfather and the collectiion. that was me. I remember 2 huge boxes of just rolled coin stacked in rows by denomination in the guest bedroom closet. The envelopes the Proof sets came in are still in their original envelopes mailed from the mint - most of which were untouched for years.
We were joking among us through e-mails that one of the cousins added their 'blue' artistic flair to the Silver Certificates. LOL IT WASN'T ME!!!
Anyway, thanks for all your help here on the forum. I have learned a lot too just by going through what seems to be an endless thread.
Cousin2 >>
Nice first post and welcome to the boards. Darth got a lot of grief from the start from some here when he first posted about this collection. Most of the knowledgeable ones (longtimers) here have all seen the "recently acquired collection" threads turn into a coffee can of mostly junk silver. Also, they have seen the bogus threads posted by people or trolls looking for a thrill to rile the serious collectors here.
To actually see and read the thread as it developed and finally verified by a respectable poster here was pretty thrilling to say the least. Your grandfather definitely knew how to collect and preserve coins for the future generations of you all. My hat goes to him and the legacy that he has left.
We all hang on every picture and commentary Darth posts in hopes of seeing further into your grandfather's life as a collector. Your grandfather sounds a lot like mine minus the coins. Very few people are able to see into the future and imagine what a collection like this can achieve. Hopefully, you all can agree what must go and what must stay and also maybe getting a pedigree holder as a tribute to him.
I check this thread everyday to see what has developed and in the hopes of glimpsing additional coins that didn't make it on the first thread. Take it slow and be deliberate but cautious. It has been awe inspiring at least to me to wonder what if my grandfather had left something like this collection to me and my siblings.
Take care and Darth keep posting!
To be sure, he definitely knew what he was doing. I still have several coins he gave to me - several Eisenhower Dollars - one 1972 D, one Bi-Centennial D, and a 1964 JFK D half dollar. Since this thread started I have now put them all in protective plastic coin discs in hopes of preserving them from any further damage. I treasure them more now even if they're not worth squat from mishandling.
We have tossed around the idea of pedigreeing the coins. The 'Dusty Rhodes Collection' name seemed catchy to me, but it leaves our Grandmother's name out. And too, from what I gathered from the thread, that name could stir several different memories - not all of which are positive.
It is paramount to us all that our Grandparents be revered and esteemed. Even more important, that they be proud of how we handled their gift. The finest childhood memories we all have are our summers with them in Carlsbad. I grin ear-to-ear when I think of some of them, moreover that we survived. (Darth, you know which ones!!!)
Again, you guys/gals have been awesome here on the forum.
I second the motion? More pics!!! Even though I'm family, I'm too far away to see them in person.
Cousin2
I have enjoyed your grandfather's collection and the threads and pictures it has generated on the forums. Please post more if you desire; and have Darth5oh post more pics.
The Delaware looks nice with the nice skin and very few marks that I have come to expect of the Commemoratives from this collection. It has a planchet flaw or two but these were on the coin as it left the mint so shouldn't hurt the grade. It seems Gem (65) or better.
If you certify the Commems you could enter them in a Registry set and then have them pedigreed. Since the quality and look is so nice and consistent among them I would recommend doing this.
I must admit… a couple reasons I started this second thread were for my own (maybe even selfish) reasons. One is that I feel bad I didn’t get everyone on-board soon enough to enjoy the initial thrill (and frenzy) that I got to experience in the first thread. I guessed this thread would certainly not explode like the first, but I’m glad you (and the other 4) are able to read and share in a lot of these great comments as they happen. I know I joked with garsmith about, “something for something” - getting coin grades in return for more pictures – which is the wrong approach. Again, I wanted the other (5) to enjoy this thread for a least a few days – keep the pace a little slower – which is the main reason I didn’t dump all the pics out at once. (Besides - I honestly have quite a bit of cropping and resizing to do before I can post them.) So thanks for your comments, Jim. I could NOT have said it better.
Top priorities for this thread are 1.) Honor our grandparents. 2.) Post as many pictures as possible to collectors here who might enjoy seeing them (in honor of my grandparents – and parents.) As I said before – Grampy would just be beside himself with all this attention and reading these wonderful comments! Back in the first thread, SanctionII suggested I save all the posts/comments. I did that, and will do the same here. This thread continues to have great comments AND great information.
I mentioned in January my father did a couple short write-ups on my grandparents. Here is the first : “The Early Years” - a short summary with no mention of the collection.
Also – two Elgins. (Again, I posted the first one in thread 1, but here are both to compare.) I’ll go ahead a post another coin set very shortly – with my father’s second writeup.
======================================================================================
Years 1903 – 1929
Grampy was the oldest of seven brothers and sisters, and they grew up in Baton Rouge, LA. During many of those early years, money, food and clothing were in short supply and he told me that many times when they bought a quart of milk his mother would add water so that everyone would have some milk to drink. [Mamaw, as we called her, may have been the inventor of the first “low fat” milk. Papaw, his dad, worked as a laborer for the Standard Oil Refinery which later became the Exxon Refinery (I believe)].
Grampy played football and ran track while in high school and college but dropped out of LSU after two years to help support the family. As far as I remember, all of his brothers and sisters graduated from college and in large part it was because Grampy worked. They all called him “brother” as a sign of love and respect that they had for him. The lack of a college degree bothered him for the rest of his life and that is why he pushed his two sons and six grandkids to get a college degree.
During the late 20’s he had a job on a geophysical survey crew traveling throughout Louisiana and Texas prospecting for oil. They used dynamite charges buried in the ground to send shock waves into the earth, and the echo of these blasts, when read on a series of seismograph stations, could tell the chief geologist on the crew where the best locations were to find oil. While working on this job in Lake Charles, he met Grammy in 1929, and after a brief courtship, they eloped and got married. Grammy’s mother (called Granny by all of her grandkids) was extremely upset that her daughter ran off with this man “who just wasn’t good enough for her youngest daughter”. I believe that Grampy tried all his life to prove that Granny was wrong and before she died in the mid 40’s, I think she forgave him.
============================================================================================
Edit - looks like I posted the first obverse twice... here's the correct one! (Edit again - I mean reverse??)
In a lot of ways, the collection provides a nice counterpoint to the hard working life it sounds like he was living, giving him that 'one thing' that was all his, and that he could do as well as the wealthy guy down the street (and well did he do just that).
That Elgin looks to be a nice 63 to me. Too many scuffs and marks to hit 64 I'd think, but the TPG's will grade as they will... so you never know. Second elgin may be a 64. Photo may not be clear, but there looks to be something going on in the hair on the obverse...
Thank you for sharing.
Grabba – thanks for taking the time to write all that. As I said before, I enjoy reading, and then re-reading everyone’s comments from time to time.
Tonedbuff – sounds like a neat idea! Great comments. (And I updated the Elgin pics – there are indeed 2 coins! Thanks for the grade guess!)
Here is my father’s second write-up. I really didn’t plan this until I realized it from my previous post. My father mentioned my grandfather had several Civil War heroes, and alphabetically on my list – the next commemorative is the Gettysburg Blue and Gray Reunion. Maybe that’s why he had 3.
================================================================================================
Years 1930 – 1940 The beginning of the coin collection
The depression and stock market crash may have influenced Grampy to put any savings he and Grammy had into something tangible (coins) that he would have forever. I remember sitting at our dining room table while he looked over his small collection. Bob and I knew not to touch or mishandle the coins, and we knew very early in our lives that this was an important part of his life. Most of the proof sets were purchased from the mint. I don’t know where or when he purchased the commemoratives, but every time he brought out the collection, there were more coins.
I believe that one of his coworkers at the Chicago & Northwestern RR in St Paul encouraged him to start his coin collection, and this person may have been familiar with the proof sets and commemoratives. Sometimes I think that Grampy just liked the look of a coin, admiring the physical beauty. General Robert E. Lee, the Confederate General, was one of his heroes, so some of the commemoratives were purchased because of the state’s or person’s connection to the Civil War. Several of the coins were gifts from people who Grammy and Grampy helped, or fed, or befriended, or loaned money to. [The South African gold piece (Krugerand) was one of these.]
These early years were kind of the “wandering” years. We moved from St. Paul to Baton Rouge and back to St. Paul while Grampy worked at one job or another. One of his jobs was running a convenience (7-11 type) store for a brother in law in Baton Rouge. The store was on Airline Hwy north of Florida Blvd, and in those days there was only open swamp land behind the store. Bob and I nearly set the whole area ablaze when some of our fire crackers accidentally set a large tree on fire.
On one of these trips, while we were singing songs, Grampy asked Grammy to sing the New Mexico State Song which went something like..
Oh fair New Mexico
We love, we love you so
Our hearts with pride o’erflow
No matter where we go
Grammy got through the first several lines and then she began to sob. Grampy pulled off the road to comfort her and Bob and I thought that this might be the “end” and we would become orphans left in some city between Baton Rouge and St. Paul. I believe that this day marked the day when Grammy decided that someday soon, we would go back to her home in Carlsbad, and we would quit traveling all over the country and we would have a real home and Grampy would find a real job and stick to it, and maybe he would sell some of his silly coins and we would be able to afford some furniture, etc.…
I think Grammy was just homesick, but the whole episode is still etched in my mind. It was the first time I remember seeing her cry and it made me realize how much she missed New Mexico and her family and how lonely she must have been since many of Grampy’s jobs took him away from the family. However, in all of this turmoil, Grampy never sold any coins and continued to add to the collection.
John
=================================================================================================
Please post pictures of the proof coins when you get a chance, hopefully out of the cello packaging. I love the 36-42 proof sets.
SanctionII – OK… I’ll cut, crop, upload, and post a ’37 proof set tonight. (Did you see the ’41 pics on the last page? I kinda thought those were… well… pretty neat.
Keez – thanks! No explicit instructions were given to my knowledge. While at this point we are in agreement on what direction to take – who knows with time?? We cousins haven’t had a paw-wow in over a decade, and nothing is going to happen until all of us get together (in person) to discuss AND view the entire collection. We reserve the right to change our minds at any point! Lol…
Jonathan – Cud ?? Sorry – I’m lost… Please explain!
A coin has raised design elements. It is struck from a die that has corresponding design elements that are cut into the face of the die, rather than raised above it. When the die (with sunken design) is pressed into a flat piece of metal, the coin design flows into the sunken part of the die, becoming raised.
Got that so far?
Now consider what happens if someone drops the die so that a piece chips off the edge. The chipped-off piece of the die is now another "sunken" (that is, entirely missing) design element. Any coin struck from that die will have an additional raised area that shouldn't have been there. In fact, *every* coin struck from that die will have a *matching* additional raised area, since the chipped-off piece isn't about to reappear.
Cuds are not heavily collected, but they do add a rarity factor because the mint tends to stop using the dies when they get damaged. That's especially true for commemoratives, which typicallyhad lower mintages and higher quality control than circulating coins.
Look at the "75" at about 10:00 on your first two coins. That's how it should look, with the "75" clearly raised above the field and clearly separated from the rim. Now look at the same thin in the third picture. That's a cud.
In terms of value: probably nothing significant over the regular value of the commem. But it get's a "Huh, look at that" comment at least. There's a (very slight) chance that this is a new discovery, which might get it a slight premium if you could find the right buyer, which would probably not be worth the effort.
jonathan
Just looked at the pics of the 1941 proof set. If the coins are in the original mint cello and there is no evidence of the coins ever having been removed from the original government packaging, then I would not remove same if you and your family have decided to sell the proof sets unslabbed [you could expect to obtain a higher price if the coins in the sets have never been removed from the original government packaging because some buyers crave "originality"]. If you do not want to sell the proof sets raw [and instead want to keep them or slab them before selling them] removing them from the original government packaging should be done [so you can get a better idea of how nice they are looking at them without the cello blocking the view; and so you can put them in storage containers that will minimze the risk of damage to the coins now that they are being inspected and handled by people instead of simply sitting in a box or closet].
In any event, if the proofs ever come out of the cello envelopes, please post pics of same under good lighting [halogen]. I for one would love to see high quality pics of the coins in the 36-42 proof sets, out of the cello. I am sure they have toned up. Some toning may be very attractive, adding to the quality and value of the coins. Some toning may be negative, detracting from the quality and value of the coins [in which case a dip or other appropriate treatment to remove the toning in a manner that does not damage the coins would be in order]. Some toning may be neutral, in which case removing same or allowing it to remain is a toss up decision. (The toning on the pictured 1941 half [which BTW looks very nice with no noticeable marks/blemishes] looks very typical of silver proofs that have remained in the cello envelopes for years. To me this type of toning is neutral or negative. If I owned the coin I would closely inspect same to see if the coin is of high grade with few blemishes, watery mirrored fields and/or frosted devices under the toning. If so, the removal of the toning would enhance the coin and I would remove it).
This thread and the original thread are two of the most enjoyable threads that have been posted to the US Coin Forum since I joined in 8-2004. The coin pics and the enjoyment/excitement for your family and for forumites arising from the collecting efforts of your grandfather is the best part of the whole thing. On top of that, it is nice to see a family that inherits an old time collection put themselves in a position where they educate themselves on what they have and thus avoid disposing of the collection for a fraction of its value when it is finally sold.
More pics please.