Has anyone ever dealt with Delaware Valley Rare Coins?

Longacre · October 22, 2006 10:22AM

What can you tell me about them? Are they on the up and up?

500Bay · October 22, 2006 10:29AM

I have bought from them - but years ago. They are on the up and up. Their web presence (it seems to me) has been weak - they only recently began to add pictures of their coins on line.

As an aside - the proprietor, Frank Greenberg - was somewhat connected to Tom Noe.

Hyperion · October 22, 2006 10:32AM

never dealt with them, this was out there:

Coingate

To manage the investment, Thomas Noe Inc. used a newly created subsidiary of Noe's company Vintage Coins & Collectibles, called Capital Coin (specifically, Capital Coins Ltd. I and Capital Coins Ltd. II). Capital Coin then created subsidiaries Visionary Rare Coins, Numismatic Professionals, Rare Coin Alliance, and one named Karl D. Hirtzinger.

...Capital Coin also loaned dealer Delaware Valley Rare Coins in Broomall, Pennsylvania, which is not owned or controlled by Noe, $300,000 from the fund, which the dealer then used for his own business. The dealer used property in New Jersey as collateral. The Ohio newspaper The Toledo Blade made a public records request to the government to view the mortgage documents. Capital Coin had redacted the records, blacking out the address of the property and the owners. The Ohio attorney general ordered Noe to release the documents, noting "anyone pledging property as collateral to back publicly funded investments must make their name and address public." Lawyers for Capital Coin refused. The case was eventually settled.

(source cited, I dont know anything about it firsthand...)

WTCG · October 22, 2006 10:34AM

Frank Greenberg and the folks at Delaware Valley Rare Coins are top notch dealers. They carry plenty of premium quality coins at reasonable prices.

coindeuce · October 22, 2006 10:34AM

Of the half dozen or so coins I've ever had sent on approval, I purchased one. Not a very impressive percentage IMHO.

roadrunner · October 22, 2006 10:36AM

I've dealt with Dave Carr who works for DVRC. If he gives me his word, that's that. Dave is a PNG member and a sharp upgrader. DVRC is one of the ultimate buy it right and sell it right companies. They get a lot of stuff and sell a lot of slabbed coins. No doubt they are connected as was alluded to earlier. Once they have something it's hard to find a coin at a sleeper price. It's been a few years since I bought from them but at that time their prices were not far from wholesale. They sell a lot of product. I have no problems with them. At the large coin shows they are one of the smaller numbers of top dealers who take several booths.

roadrunner

MFH · October 22, 2006 10:36AM

I have had a few good transactions with DVRC; Bill Gay seems to man the store and I know that they have attended any large shows I've attended.

Nice people. I'd work with them again if they had what I was looking for. ( My most recent purchase from them was for an 1889 Quarter NGC PF 66 CAM ).

goose3 · October 22, 2006 10:38AM

I've bought several coins from them with no problems or complaints....at least on my end.

coinguy1 · October 22, 2006 10:54AM

<<Are they on the up and up?>>

Yes, I believe that they are.

DennisH · October 22, 2006 11:09AM

I have only dealt with them a couple of times, but their customer service was outstanding and very professional. I no longer shop with them, however, because I found the quality of their coins to not be commensurate with their "all the money" prices.

CaptHenway · October 22, 2006 1:02PM

I've done several hundred thousands of dollars of business with them over the years, and never any problems. Frank Greenberg is a great guy.
Tom DeLorey

ElmerFusterpuck · October 22, 2006 1:22PM

Only had a couple of transactions with them a few years ago with no problems. The 1852 PCGS MS-65 brown cent I got from them would probably go 66 today...

nankraut · October 22, 2006 2:07PM

"Frank Greenberg and the folks at Delaware Valley Rare Coins are top notch dealers. They carry plenty of premium quality coins at reasonable prices. "

I agree; I have purchased several rather expensive coins from them, and have received great service.

ernie11 · April 13, 2010 7:27AM

I know this is a very old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone can update it. I am thinking of buying a coin from them, but I have never done business with them before. Has anyone here had good or bad or so-so experiences with them? Thaks, folks.

Barndog · April 13, 2010 7:29AM

<< I know this is a very old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone can update it. I am thinking of buying a coin from them, but I have never done business with them before. Has anyone here had good or bad or so-so experiences with them? Thaks, folks. >>

read what capthenway said

messydesk · April 13, 2010 7:32AM

I bought a 1942-P Silver Proof Jefferson 5c from them in PCGS PR65 in August 1991 for a reasonable price. Still looks like it did then.

segoja · April 13, 2010 7:33AM

No Problems at All!

First Class all the way

LanLord · April 13, 2010 7:41AM

I'm just guessin, but someone ought to at least be able to tell you where they are located.

mrearlygold · April 13, 2010 8:02AM

Frank Greenberg is a stand up guy

500Bay · April 13, 2010 8:06AM

<< I'm just guessin, but someone ought to at least be able to tell you where they are located. >>

DVRC

2835 West Chester Pike • Broomall, PA 19008-1833
Toll Free (800) 345-8188 •

Julian · April 13, 2010 8:10AM

No problems at all. Just go ahead and do whatever it is that you want.

johnny9434 · April 13, 2010 8:36AM

<< I have only dealt with them a couple of times, but their customer service was outstanding and very professional. I no longer shop with them, however, because I found the quality of their coins to not be commensurate with their "all the money" prices. >>

It seems theres a few other out there like that on top of that

CaptHenway · April 13, 2010 10:10AM

<< Frank Greenberg and the folks at Delaware Valley Rare Coins are top notch dealers. They carry plenty of premium quality coins at reasonable prices. >>

TD

Shortgapbob · April 13, 2010 11:14AM

They are good guys to deal with. We have done plenty with them in the past. They are one of the companies that you can both buy from and sell to.

ernie11 · April 14, 2010 6:41AM

Ok, thanks for the good word.

Walkerfan · December 24, 2012 10:36AM

<< I know this is a very old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone can update it. I am thinking of buying a coin from them, but I have never done business with them before. Has anyone here had good or bad or so-so experiences with them? Thaks, folks. >>

They were THE WORST experience out of all of my years of coin collecting. I will NEVER trust them again.

mkman123 · December 24, 2012 10:39AM

uh oh! Seems like they were highly recommended by well known members such as Feld, Capthenway, etc and now we have a member that has a bad experience.....perhaps their customer services has dropped?

MrEureka · December 24, 2012 10:42AM

They were THE WORST experience out of all of my years of coin collecting. I will NEVER trust them again.

I'm surprised to hear that. What happened?

Walkerfan · December 24, 2012 11:17AM

<< They were THE WORST experience out of all of my years of coin collecting. I will NEVER trust them again.

I'm surprised to hear that. What happened? >>

Thanks. I bought a coin from them and a year later I decided to sell it back to them for $500 less than what I paid---it was a high 4 figure coin--close to the 5 figure range. I felt that was fair and they gave me a verbal agreement over the phone (still a BIG loss). Sooo, in the meantime; I committed to buy another coin from another dealer with the money I was to receive from them. They reassured me that they would honor that price. Well, once they received it; they reneged and said that they would not pay me that agreed upon price. HUH??!! They basically, said----'too bad and if you don't like it, then the coin is coming back'. Before they rec'd it---I sent them their own image of the coin and they once owned it, too, so they knew exactly what it was. I was forced to take the deal and I lost an additional 350 ON TOP of the 500 bucks. VERY UNETHICAL. IMO. I could have dishonored my deal with the other dealer but I would never do that, so I agreed to the add'l loss. It has bothered me for a long time, since, but I have just told myself to just avoid them in the future. I saw this post so I had to tell of my experience. I am just being honest.

Walkerfan · December 24, 2012 11:28AM

segoja · December 24, 2012 11:30AM

Call Rich. That doesn't sound like Delaware Valley to me.

Walkerfan · December 24, 2012 11:32AM

<< Call Rich Weaver. That doesn't sound like Delaware Valley to me. >>

He was the one who ripped me off.

ElmerFusterpuck · December 24, 2012 11:38AM

Wow, realized I posted in this thread when i was much younger! That large cent I posted about actually DID upgrade to a PCGS MS-66 BN! Walkerfan, that is too bad about your experience. Have any pics of that coin?

Walkerfan · December 24, 2012 11:40AM

<< Wow, realized I posted in this thread when i was much younger! That large cent I posted about actually DID upgrade to a PCGS MS-66 BN! Walkerfan, that is too bad about your experience. Have any pics of that coin? >>

Yes I do. It isn't the nicest coin, though. Do you still want to see it? Seeing an image doesn't really change anything---it is a matter of ethics. It has gone thru HA & DLRC, since I've owned it.

Unknown · December 24, 2012 2:08PM

This content has been removed.

ernie11 · December 24, 2012 8:15PM

I've gotten a couple of coins in the past two years, dealing thru the mail, and been happy with them.

PerryHall · December 24, 2012 8:19PM

I'm always hesitant to buy coins from dealers who don't want to buy the coin back except at a large discount. Makes me wonder what's wrong with the coin or the dealer.

bidask · December 24, 2012 10:13PM

Sounds like less than a 10% loss for a coin you sold back a year later.......not to shabby.

EVillageProwler · December 24, 2012 10:35PM

<< 

<< They were THE WORST experience out of all of my years of coin collecting. I will NEVER trust them again.

I'm surprised to hear that. What happened? >>

Thanks. I bought a coin from them and a year later I decided to sell it back to them for $500 less than what I paid---it was a high 4 figure coin--close to the 5 figure range. I felt that was fair and they gave me a verbal agreement over the phone (still a BIG loss). Sooo, in the meantime; I committed to buy another coin from another dealer with the money I was to receive from them. They reassured me that they would honor that price. Well, once they received it; they reneged and said that they would not pay me that agreed upon price. HUH??!! They basically, said----'too bad and if you don't like it, then the coin is coming back'. Before they rec'd it---I sent them their own image of the coin and they once owned it, too, so they knew exactly what it was. I was forced to take the deal and I lost an additional 350 ON TOP of the 500 bucks. VERY UNETHICAL. IMO. I could have dishonored my deal with the other dealer but I would never do that, so I agreed to the add'l loss. It has bothered me for a long time, since, but I have just told myself to just avoid them in the future. I saw this post so I had to tell of my experience. I am just being honest. >>

From how I read the quoted text, there seems to be two issues.

First, it's the buy back price. Assuming the original purchase price was $9500, then that means a buy back of 9% after one year. Not knowing the coin at all, I'd say that based solely on the numbers it doesn't yet seem wrong. Ethical dealers I know will at worst try to buy back for around 15% after one year, and will usually try to do better depending on the coin and the market.

Second, there is the matter of the broken agreement. On surface, I suppose most of us probably feel that that is bad. However, this is really a one-sided conversation between Walkerfan and DelVal (DelVal isn't here to defend themselves) and we are very short on details.

IMO, it is VERY UNETHICAL to slam someone publicly but not provide adequate details.

EVP

roadrunner · December 25, 2012 1:12AM

It's not unusual to have bad experiences with even the "best" rare coin dealers in the world. In my own 37 yrs there are numerous major rare coin
firms that I had at least one "negative" transaction with. Some of these firms routinely show up on these forums touted as "best of the best." And they could be.
Some of those transactions turned out a whole lot worse than the OP's. It's hard to find saints in our business. I recall buying a raw coin from dealer X that ended up
coming back AT from PCGS. When I tried to return the coin to dealer X at a fair 10-20% loss they would have nothing to do with it. They just didn't want it back, period.
Not on consignment, not any way shape or form. That was a $1,000 lesson. I'm still cordial with that PNG dealer but also realize there won't ever be another transaction.
And I'm sure if I had that dealer rated here on the forum they would come out near the very top of all US coin dealers. Sometimes things just don't work out for you.

I've had a couple of transactions with DVRC. One of them was selling them a PF66 Walker than I had priced considerably under the market. DVRC noted the discrepancy
and paid me an extra 20%. A lot of dealers would not have done that. Most dealers would probably not even want to buy what they sold you a year earlier for 90-95% of
your cost unless the market had moved up considerably in that time. Considering most coins have only gone down in price the past 4 years, getting >90% might be astounding.
It's also true that what's market acceptable has changed a lot over the past 4 years with the advent of sniffers, stickers, and pluses. While it would be nice to have a lifetime
guarantee from your dealers when it comes time to selling them stuff back at strong wholesale levels....it's probably not reasonable. If it's a slabbed coin and has become much
less desireable due to shifting market views or subtle grading shifts or even turning uglier in the holder, that's an issue better to be dealt with by the TPG than your dealer.
Most of our dealers have sold a lot of not so nice coins in holders in the previous 20 yrs. Do we expect them to make good on them all if they downgrade or won't sticker/cross?
The line would be quite long.

Barry · December 25, 2012 1:15AM

When I saw this thread this morning, I thought to myself,wow, long time since I've seen a Longacre post," then realized it was dug up from the past. Oh well...

FWIW, I never saw DVRC at any of the local shows in the DV. Of course, I saw them at national shows, but never bought from them. Once the Noe story hit the news, I figured where there's smoke, there's fire.

BillJones · December 25, 2012 1:21AM

I have bought a number of coins from Delaware Valley and have always been satisfied with their service and pricing. They make a strong effort to have attractive, accurately graded coins in stock. I always check out what they are offering when I go to a major show.

RYK · December 25, 2012 1:39AM

I, too, would like to hear the other side of the story, but if the transaction went down exactly as was suggested here, I would not return for future business, either. I have never done business with DVRC, probably will not, but nothing that I have heard or read would keep me from buying a coin from them if they had something I wanted.

MrEureka · December 25, 2012 1:41AM

From how I read the quoted text, there seems to be two issues.

First, it's the buy back price. Assuming the original purchase price was $9500, then that means a buy back of 9% after one year. Not knowing the coin at all, I'd say that based solely on the numbers it doesn't yet seem wrong. Ethical dealers I know will at worst try to buy back for around 15% after one year, and will usually try to do better depending on the coin and the market.

Second, there is the matter of the broken agreement. On surface, I suppose most of us probably feel that that is bad. However, this is really a one-sided conversation between Walkerfan and DelVal (DelVal isn't here to defend themselves) and we are very short on details.

Given that the two alleged buyback offers were only $350 apart, I'd say the only issue is if there ever was an agreement at the initial offer. I can imagine all kinds of scenarios that could have led to the problem. Was the offer a rough price indication or was it a firm offer? Was the offer made, not accepted, and later retracted for some reason? Perhaps because too much time had passed? Perhaps because the relationship soured? I certainly don't know the details, but I will say that I find it hard to imagine DV risking its reputation over $350.

BillJones · December 25, 2012 1:48AM

I think we all have had bad experiences with big name dealers who have been around for years. You can't get along with everybody, and sometimes deals go sour for reasons that are beyond the control of both parties. But I do agree that a dealer should be willing to buy back what he sells at fair price given the market. You can't expect a dealer to protect you from market downturns, but if the dealer is going to continue in business buying and selling the same type of material, they should be willing to pay fair prices for items they have sold to you.

Edited to add:

All dealers end up with some coins that they don't like. You just have to take some items in trade now and then from customers that have problems, are over graded etc. Still as a dealer I directed those items toward to wholesale trade. I really didn't want to buy those pieces back, and selling them to other dealers was in my view the best way to make them go away.

tradedollarnut · December 25, 2012 1:58AM

$850 off retail for a near $10k coin that you dont like is really a great buyback!

Walkerfan · December 25, 2012 2:21AM

<< $850 off retail for a near $10k coin that you dont like is really a great buyback! >>

I paid 7K for the coin. He told me he'd buy it back @ 6500 and then he changed his story and only gave me 6150. I just don't like being lied to when I trust someone. It is the principle of it. I would NEVER dishonor a deal like that. Lesson learned and I've move on. They'll not get my business again. 850 is alot of money for me. Had he been upfront with me---I would've tried to sell it somewhere else. He had PLENTY of room to profit, too.

EVillageProwler · December 25, 2012 2:33AM

<< 

<< $850 off retail for a near $10k coin that you dont like is really a great buyback! >>

I paid 7K for the coin. He told me he'd buy it back @ 6500 and then he changed his story and only gave me 6150. I just don't like being lied to when I trust someone. It is the principle of it. I would NEVER dishonor a deal like that. Lesson learned and I've move on. They'll not get my business again. 850 is alot of money for me. Had he been upfront with me---I would've tried to sell it somewhere else. He had PLENTY of room to profit, too. >>

That's 12% after one year.

Walkerfan - there are a few of us who are interested in more details. For example, coin, grade, holder, special attributes? Also, how did the price change? Why didn't you ask for your coin back?

DelVal is a mainstream dealership, and mainstream dealers are unlikely to cavalierly mess around over what is such a minuscule amount to their business.

Since you aired this, kindly consider filling in the important missing details.

EVP

PS Add: the amount in the dispute is 350, not 850.

LeeBone · December 25, 2012 2:41AM

I`ve been in their store but only to send some coins to the bean factory. I pass by it on my delivery route which made it very convenient.
No trouble at all with them BUT they didn`t come across as the friendliest of dealers. Also, not much of any inventory was displayed. Maybe they have the good stuff but it wasn`t in view and it may seem to have bothered them to ask to see some so I didn`t.

Walkerfan · December 25, 2012 2:43AM

<< 

<< 

<< $850 off retail for a near $10k coin that you dont like is really a great buyback! >>

I paid 7K for the coin. He told me he'd buy it back @ 6500 and then he changed his story and only gave me 6150. I just don't like being lied to when I trust someone. It is the principle of it. I would NEVER dishonor a deal like that. Lesson learned and I've move on. They'll not get my business again. 850 is alot of money for me. Had he been upfront with me---I would've tried to sell it somewhere else. He had PLENTY of room to profit, too. >>

That's 12% after one year.

Walkerfan - there are a few of us who are interested in more details. For example, coin, grade, holder, special attributes? Also, how did the price change? Why didn't you ask for your coin back?

DelVal is a mainstream dealership, and mainstream dealers are unlikely to cavalierly mess around over what is such a minuscule amount to their business.

Since you aired this, kindly consider filling in the important missing details.

EVP

PS Add: the amount in the dispute is 350, not 850. >>

The coin was a PCGS Walker graded MS 63 with no special attributes. Price changed for no reason other than to squeeze more money from me. As already stated, I didn't ask for the coin back, b/c I made another deal w/another dealer and was counting on that money and had NO TIME to shop it around elsewhere as I took him at his word.

YES 350

tradedollarnut · December 25, 2012 2:43AM

He had PLENTY of room to profit, too.

I, personally, would not pay $6,500 for a coin that I hoped to retail at $7,000. Not if I wanted to stay in business for long. Looks like he wanted to do you a favor and then when he got the coin in hand it wasn't as nice as the image so he split the diff.

You say it's been in Heritage since then - what was the price realized? I would imagine they took a loss. Instead of focusing on the $350 you say you are out, why not focus on the money they actually saved you with their revised offer? You'll be happier that way.

Has anyone ever dealt with Delaware Valley Rare Coins?

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