<< <i>No, Bochiman, I have never done any business with DV. I met one of the principals once but dont know if he's even still with the firm. As far as defending dealers goes, this chatroom is quick to jump down their throats and many times it's unwarranted. Not saying that's the case here as I'm still gathering info. Sorry if that offends you, but in my opinion gathering ALL the pertinent information and examining both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion is the best route.
And upon rereading all my posts in this thread, I'm having trouble seeing all the negativity or poke poke poking that you are referring to... >>
Frankly, I consider it a good thing that there are folks willing to see everyone gets a fair shake, including those not around to defend himself.
<< <i>No, Bochiman, I have never done any business with DV. I met one of the principals once but dont know if he's even still with the firm. As far as defending dealers goes, this chatroom is quick to jump down their throats and many times it's unwarranted. Not saying that's the case here as I'm still gathering info. Sorry if that offends you, but in my opinion gathering ALL the pertinent information and examining both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion is the best route.
And upon rereading all my posts in this thread, I'm having trouble seeing all the negativity or poke poke poking that you are referring to... >>
Frankly, I consider it a good thing that there are folks willing to see everyone gets a fair shake, including those not around to defend himself.
EVP >>
The current person with the issue stated the issue and certainly didn't seem to go off and call up a lynch mob, imho. So, this "willing to see everyone gets a fair shake" sounds good, but I don't think it ever got to the point where it was a riot waiting to happen...unlike some times. And, if you have read many of my posts, you know I agree with your statement, however, I stand by what I posted in that the WAY in which TDN is "looking for the complete truth" (my quotes, not his or yours), has been done and redone in such a way as to cast apparent doubt on the original poster of the issue. Whether or not he intended it that way, it certainly does come across, to at least myself if not others, that way.
There is a BIG difference in how one may come across when it comes to looking for all the info, or making sure everyone gets a "fair shake". I know Bruce is a very smart man, so unless he has been hitting the eggnog a bit extra, I believe he knows exactly what he is posting and his thoughts behind his words as he posts them. For the record, I like Bruce and think he is a good guy, but I also think people sometimes see an issue and either read more into it or get emotionally into the issue, for whatever reason, and come at it from a non-neutral POV. For me, I don't know the person nor the dealer and certainly try to come at it from a point of neutrality. I have defended collectors, and I have defended dealers. I don't care either way.
To address the last part of what you wrote, and to any other dealer who may know the dealer in question....please do invite him to the boards and this thread to hear his side of it. That would keep all of "us" armchair vigilanties and saviors at bay since there should be no assumptions made if coming from the proverbial horse's mouth, right?
I am all about getting all the info and not just jumping on dealers. That said, a few threads, particularly of late, you have just poked and poked at whoever the OP of the thread was, in reference to any issue with a dealer. In this case, I wonder.....do you have a personal, or even professional, relationship with the dealer in question? You sure are nitpicking and tossing your two-bits in quite a bit against the OP (as I read it) on this issue.
As has already been said......IF things went down as written, particularly with a coin that originally came from that same dealer (and, I don't think a dealer can remember every single coin, but they should know how to "read" their own photos if they get their own photos shown to them), then I think the dealer DID act poorly in this endeavor. I would welcome the dealer to come onboard and post his side, but I won't hold my breath for that.
I do also agree with how Mitch (Wondercoin) had said he would handle a verbal agreement......get one of the parties to send email confirming the agreement, as discussed, and to acknowledge the same. I do that even with BST transactions already and it can seem nitpicky at times, but it can sure cut down on "misunderstandings".
To get back to my original point, I know everyone has an opinion and that some certainly like to share those opinions, but when I see the same poster, over and over, being negative (to any degree), I just shake my head and wonder why burr is up their butt, or what relationship exists but isn't mentioned........ (I feel the same way when a consumer/collector does the same thing to dealers.....I don't like it either way)
Edited to properly attritbute Mitch as the person who stated how he gets the written confirmation for verbal agreements. >>
+ 1
I have no reason to doubt Walkerfans version, i would think his rep here is as good as any dealers from post i have read. From time to time it does seem that when someone has a complaint against a dealer 1 or 2 posters like to whittle away at the posters complaint and offer a spin. I do not personally let one posters complaint keep me from using that dealer. If you buy enough coins from enough dealers sooner or later you are going to feel as though you have been wronged to some degree. No biggie really. You can play the percentage and say that 9 percent is preety go and so on but that has zero bearing. $350 is lunch money to some here but to me if i am told send the coin back for 6500 bucks then even 10 less bucks will rub me the wrong way.
I think it is unrealistic to think a dealer is going to never have a customer to feel he has been wronged over a span of 30 years.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I'm think this could be one of those not so rare instances were both parties are in the right in their own heads
Walkerfan heard what he thought he did and I have zero reason to doubt him.
DVRC may have thought the terms different in good faith. Don't know that part of the equation.
I understand WF's reaction as in his mind the deal was a done deal.
Sounds like WF was describing an average coin for the grade. The irony is $6150 isn't a horrible buy back on a coin in this situation. It doesn't negate WF's position from his side of the fence that he got reversed chiseled so this thread has morphed into what it has. No matter what it will be he said/she said from here on out.
An e-mail trail is indeed your friend.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
<< <i>No, Bochiman, I have never done any business with DV. I met one of the principals once but dont know if he's even still with the firm. As far as defending dealers goes, this chatroom is quick to jump down their throats and many times it's unwarranted. Not saying that's the case here as I'm still gathering info. Sorry if that offends you, but in my opinion gathering ALL the pertinent information and examining both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion is the best route.
And upon rereading all my posts in this thread, I'm having trouble seeing all the negativity or poke poke poking that you are referring to... >>
Frankly, I consider it a good thing that there are folks willing to see everyone gets a fair shake, including those not around to defend himself.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>
<< <i>No, Bochiman, I have never done any business with DV. I met one of the principals once but dont know if he's even still with the firm. As far as defending dealers goes, this chatroom is quick to jump down their throats and many times it's unwarranted. Not saying that's the case here as I'm still gathering info. Sorry if that offends you, but in my opinion gathering ALL the pertinent information and examining both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion is the best route.
And upon rereading all my posts in this thread, I'm having trouble seeing all the negativity or poke poke poking that you are referring to... >>
Frankly, I consider it a good thing that there are folks willing to see everyone gets a fair shake, including those not around to defend himself.
EVP >>
The current person with the issue stated the issue and certainly didn't seem to go off and call up a lynch mob, imho. So, this "willing to see everyone gets a fair shake" sounds good, but I don't think it ever got to the point where it was a riot waiting to happen...unlike some times.
And, if you have read many of my posts, you know I agree with your statement, however, I stand by what I posted in that the WAY in which TDN is "looking for the complete truth" (my quotes, not his or yours), has been done and redone in such a way as to cast apparent doubt on the original poster of the issue. Whether or not he intended it that way, it certainly does come across, to at least myself if not others, that way.
There is a BIG difference in how one may come across when it comes to looking for all the info, or making sure everyone gets a "fair shake". I know Bruce is a very smart man, so unless he has been hitting the eggnog a bit extra, I believe he knows exactly what he is posting and his thoughts behind his words as he posts them.
For the record, I like Bruce and think he is a good guy, but I also think people sometimes see an issue and either read more into it or get emotionally into the issue, for whatever reason, and come at it from a non-neutral POV. For me, I don't know the person nor the dealer and certainly try to come at it from a point of neutrality. I have defended collectors, and I have defended dealers. I don't care either way.
To address the last part of what you wrote, and to any other dealer who may know the dealer in question....please do invite him to the boards and this thread to hear his side of it. That would keep all of "us" armchair vigilanties and saviors at bay since there should be no assumptions made if coming from the proverbial horse's mouth, right?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>TDN -
I am all about getting all the info and not just jumping on dealers. That said, a few threads, particularly of late, you have just poked and poked at whoever the OP of the thread was, in reference to any issue with a dealer.
In this case, I wonder.....do you have a personal, or even professional, relationship with the dealer in question? You sure are nitpicking and tossing your two-bits in quite a bit against the OP (as I read it) on this issue.
As has already been said......IF things went down as written, particularly with a coin that originally came from that same dealer (and, I don't think a dealer can remember every single coin, but they should know how to "read" their own photos if they get their own photos shown to them), then I think the dealer DID act poorly in this endeavor.
I would welcome the dealer to come onboard and post his side, but I won't hold my breath for that.
I do also agree with how Mitch (Wondercoin) had said he would handle a verbal agreement......get one of the parties to send email confirming the agreement, as discussed, and to acknowledge the same. I do that even with BST transactions already and it can seem nitpicky at times, but it can sure cut down on "misunderstandings".
To get back to my original point, I know everyone has an opinion and that some certainly like to share those opinions, but when I see the same poster, over and over, being negative (to any degree), I just shake my head and wonder why burr is up their butt, or what relationship exists but isn't mentioned........
(I feel the same way when a consumer/collector does the same thing to dealers.....I don't like it either way)
Edited to properly attritbute Mitch as the person who stated how he gets the written confirmation for verbal agreements. >>
+ 1
I have no reason to doubt Walkerfans version, i would think his rep here is as good as any dealers from post i have read. From time to time it does seem that when someone has a complaint against a dealer 1 or 2 posters like to whittle away at the posters complaint and offer a spin. I do not personally let one posters complaint keep me from using that dealer. If you buy enough coins from enough dealers sooner or later you are going to feel as though you have been wronged to some degree. No biggie really. You can play the percentage and say that 9 percent is preety go and so on but that has zero bearing. $350 is lunch money to some here but to me if i am told send the coin back for 6500 bucks then even 10 less bucks will rub me the wrong way.
I think it is unrealistic to think a dealer is going to never have a customer to feel he has been wronged over a span of 30 years.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Walkerfan heard what he thought he did and I have zero reason to doubt him.
DVRC may have thought the terms different in good faith. Don't know that part of the equation.
I understand WF's reaction as in his mind the deal was a done deal.
Sounds like WF was describing an average coin for the grade. The irony is $6150 isn't a horrible buy back on a coin in this situation. It doesn't negate WF's position from his side of the fence that he got reversed chiseled so this thread has morphed into what it has. No matter what it will be he said/she said from here on out.
An e-mail trail is indeed your friend.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......