The 'Official' Official Mariners Thread

Axtell · June 11, 2006 11:09AM

A few highlights from the surging Mariners (now that the other thread has thankfully disappeared):

-Ichiro batting over .500 this month, hopefully making for an interesting run with Mauer for the batting title (and a shot at .400?)
-King Felix dominated again, got his first career complete game today, throwing less than 100 pitches in doing so against some big bats in the Angels' lineup.
-Mariners are 8-2 over their last 10 after losing their previous 6, and have moved to 3 under .500.
-the pitching staff is leading the AL in strikeouts.
-Raul Ibanez and Jose Lopez continue to surprise and dominate, with both nearing the 50 RBI mark, both hitting for good power (11 and 9 HRs, and 14 doubles each), and for average (.289/.268).

The team's pitching has definitely turned a corner, and have definitely been pitching better as of late.

It will be interesting to see if they can maintain this momentum.

RipublicaninMass · June 11, 2006 11:11AM

<<<<reflecting on the "other" thread...How could anyone bash Ichiro? Cause he slaps the ball? Big freakin' deal, doubt anyone could do it better.

Axtell · June 11, 2006 11:15AM

<< <<<<reflecting on the "other" thread...How could anyone bash Ichiro? Cause he slaps the ball? Big freakin' deal, doubt anyone could do it better. >>

If it was so easy, there'd be more people doing just that. But the fact is he's an amazing hitter, and has been showing last year was an aberration. He's already over 100 hits for the season (first one to do so) and well on his way to another 200 hit campaign.

Hargrove moved the lineup around, shifting Beltre up to #2 and it's paid of wonderfully...the entire lineup seems to be hitting better.

timc67 · June 11, 2006 11:50AM

I also saw that Mariners-Angels game today on TV and Felix was dominating. It is amazing how the Mariners OWN the Angels this season!! They are now 7-2 against the Angels in 2006. The Angels better hope they don't have to face the Mariners later this year if they are both fighting for a playoff spot. Hey, it could happen for the Mariners. The Rangers will not win the west because their pitching sucks so bad!! Beltre still is not living up to his contract though. This guy is horrible.

softparade · June 11, 2006 12:11PM

The Angels have been a bit of a suprise in a negative way so far!

Axtell · June 11, 2006 12:15PM

<< Beltre still is not living up to his contract though. This guy is horrible. >>

He had a horrific start to the season, I think batting below .200 for April.

The switch to the #2 spot has been a nice change, and he's been hitting the ball a lot better than he has. However, you are right, he is grossly overpaid for the numbers he's putting up.

2 years ago saw the Mariners pace the AL with the fewest runs scored, and, as a result, they went out and signed both Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre. I didn't think both were needed, and another pitcher I felt was a better move than picking up Beltre, who had a career (free agent) year the season before.

We'll see how it plays out...should be an interesting run down the stretch, as the A's have been just as dominating (8-2) as the M's over the last 10.

timc67 · June 11, 2006 1:04PM

You mentioned Richie Sexson. The key to Richie is having him hit with the bases loaded...LOL! He has 3 grand slams this year! Jose Lopez has been huge too!! This kid is hitting near .300 with 50 RBI.

Axtell · June 11, 2006 3:00PM

<< You mentioned Richie Sexson. The key to Richie is having him hit with the bases loaded...LOL! He has 3 grand slams this year! Jose Lopez has been huge too!! This kid is hitting near .300 with 50 RBI. >>

I think Beltre just felt too much pressure with that huge contract...not making excuses for him, but perhaps reasons he's struggled. Putting him in front of Sexson has given both players a boost.

Lopez has been huge, and he has been getting zero media exposure, even though he's 6th in the AL in RBI (right behind the likes of Vlad, David Ortiz, and Giambi).

If the pitching staff can keep this up, and Felix can carry the momentum of the last couple starts forward, I like our chances. By the way, Felix had 9 Ks today and no walks. For the season he has 77 Ks vs. just 25 walks.

iamthegreatcornholio · June 11, 2006 3:07PM

I don't think Beltre is in a "slump", I think this is normal for him. His 2004 season is the definition of an outlier. Just look at the stats it really makes you wonder what he was doing differently in '04

Axtell · June 20, 2006 3:04PM

Another outstanding pitcher, another victim of the M's surging lineup.

First, it was Jason Schmidt, who was 6-2 with a 2.48 ERA...taken out for 6 runs in 6 1/3.

Tonight, Brad Penny, who was 7-1 with a 2.83, he was promptly knocked around for 5 runs in 6 IP.

Ichiro has another 18 game hitting streak, is batting .365. Raul Ibanez is quietly putting together a very solid season batting .285 with 13 HR and 54 RBI. Jose Lopez should be the AL's all star second baseman, batting .278 with 9 HR and 51 RBI. The starting pitching has come around, leading the AL in complete games, and other than Detroit, is right in the mix (6th in the AL) in team ERA, right on par with the vaunted white sox rotation.

Should be interesting to see if they can continue....not many expected this team to do much, but it really looks like they've turned the corner.

ctsoxfan · June 20, 2006 3:15PM

Funny you mention the pitching - in one of the fantasy leagues I am in, I have King Felix, Washburn, Putz, and Gil Meche as 4 of my 11 pitchers, and they are all doing well so far (Felix is coming around after a rough start, I don't have any doubts about him at all). And, I picked up Ibanez late in the draft, no one wanted him - but I knew he would turn in solid numbers. I agree with Lopez being the AL's All-Star 2B thus far, I hope he gets the nod.

Axtell · June 20, 2006 3:19PM

I don't have any illusions about Lopez being voted the starter, as Cano is going to get the (undeserving) starting job, but I do really hope his outstanding spring is rewarded with a selection.

softparade · June 20, 2006 3:42PM

Cano underserving Ax says. Lets see

Average - Cano .322 to .278
On base % - Cano .348 to .317
HR - Lopez 9 to 4
RBI - Lopez 51 to 27
Struck out - Cano 27 times Lopez 40 times
SB - TIED 2 to 2
SLG % - Lopez .470 to .436
Hits - Cano 84 - 78
Errors - Lopez with 5 Cano with 7

Looks pretty close to me.

Axtell · June 20, 2006 4:46PM

No, Cano is not as deserving as Lopez.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

softparade · June 20, 2006 8:56PM

Sorry, I thought that since Cano's numbers are at the very least neck and neck with Lopez 's he would be as "deserving" as Lopez.

Sorry to join the thread bearing some facts, proceed with the Mariner circle jerk.

Axtell · June 21, 2006 2:15AM

<< Sorry, I thought that since Cano's numbers are at the very least neck and neck with Lopez 's he would be as "deserving" as Lopez.
>>

BA and OBP are similar, but Lopez is KILLING cano in HR and RBI.

Ichiro has moved into the starting outfield (deservedly so). Would love to see a couple more Mariners get the nod, too.

ctsoxfan · June 21, 2006 3:51AM

Not to stir it up any further, but I don't see Cano being on the All-Star radar - I would take Mark Loretta over him. Lopez should be the starter, though.

softparade · June 21, 2006 7:16AM

Lopez is no doubt killing Cano in RBI's. But if you call 9 home runs to 4 home runs being KILLED then what would you say about how many times Lopez has struck out? Or how Cano is FOR REAL killing Lopez in batting average and has a much higer on base percentage?

Hey, I'm not knocking Lopez. I am not even saying he shouldn't be on the All Star team. Very good player. But to say that Cano does not "deserve" it or he is not on the "All Star radar" (ctsox) when his numbers very easily compare to Lopez is ridiculous. How can one guy not deserve it and the other is a clear choice when their numbers are very very comparable?

Answer #1 He is a New York Yankee
Answer #2 He is a home grown New York Yankee
Answer #3 You guys spent so much time bashing Cano last year and over the winter that in no way either of you could stomach this.

Axtell · June 21, 2006 7:58AM

softy-

of course it looks close to you, but I am not the only one who thinks Lopez should be the starter.

softparade · June 21, 2006 8:22AM

Ax, I am not arguing that Lopez should or shouldn't be the starter. I am trying to figure out why you and ctsox think Cano is

A. Undeserving
B. Not on the All Star radar

It doesn't "look" close to me. It IS close. If you can't admit that much then you see through much thicker Mariner goggles then any Yankee fan you claim does.

Axtell · June 21, 2006 9:29AM

Look, softy, if you want to ramble on and on about the 'next Carew', take it to your yankee page.

This is for M's talk.

softparade · June 21, 2006 10:44AM

<< Look, softy, if you want to ramble on and on about the 'next Carew', take it to your yankee page.

This is for M's talk. >>

Axtell and Ctsox somehow came up with the idea that Lopez is MORE deserving of a all star spot then Robinson Cano. I simply provided facts to dispute that. It is most certainly my perogative to post when and where I want as Axtell like to tell all the time.

Ax, if you want to keep this thread somwhat credible I would refrain from posting baseless propaganda with the Carew comment. One day Joe Torre made that comment in a press conference. It was brought up in this forum ONE TIME. If you would like to use that Joe Torre comment and twist it all around into a claim that all Yankee fans continually preach this then your thread is rendered NOT credible.

The choice is yours.

Axtell · June 21, 2006 11:01AM

<< 
Ax, if you want to keep this thread somwhat credible I would refrain from posting baseless propaganda with the Carew comment. One day Joe Torre made that comment in a press conference. It was brought up in this forum ONE TIME. If you would like to use that Joe Torre comment and twist it all around into a claim that all Yankee fans continually preach this then your thread is rendered NOT credible.

The choice is yours. >>

So tell me how it's baseless? Did he, or did he not, refer to Cano as the next Carew? If he did, then it's entirely credible to refer to him as the 'next Carew'.

And yes, I honestly feel that Lopez is a much, much more viable choice than Cano at 2B. Sorry you disagree.

Next topic?

softparade · June 21, 2006 11:08AM

<< 
And yes, I honestly feel that Lopez is a much, much more viable choice than Cano at 2B. Sorry you disagree.
>>

Thats cool, but don't ever point fingers at Yankee fans again for looking through pinstripe glasses!

Axtell · June 21, 2006 11:11AM

Look softy-

I respected your yankee thread and didnt stir up sh*t over there, why can't you show the same courtesy?

WinPitcher · June 21, 2006 11:17AM

With all due respect, all Dan did was to provide stats so we could compare the 2 ballplayers. I think you jumped the gun here Ax.

Just like some jumped the gun on you when you provided insight regarding Bernie Williams being done. By the way did Bernie go 5 for 5 last night?

Steve

Axtell · June 21, 2006 11:34AM

Who cares about Bernie? Take it to the yankees thread.

ToppsCo1lector · June 21, 2006 12:53PM

Well hey how about the Topic huh? Not a knock on anybody but there are topics for a reason. Hell I'm glad Bernie is still doing it(and at a discounted price I might add) but thats for another place.

Ax, who/how are the young hurlers doing? I don't get much Mariner info here in Dc.

ctsoxfan · June 21, 2006 2:24PM

I only mentioned Cano with respect to Lopez being an All Star possibility at 2B. Lopez has better numbers in almost every offensive category, and his fielding numbers are better in every category. I see him as the clear choice for being the AL starter, and I honestly thought if anyone was competing with him, it might be Loretta (but Lopez has much better HR / RBI). The whole All Star voting is a joke anyway - I checked out the ballot today, and it reads "vote up to a maximum of 25 times". I'll bet even that number can't be enforced.

Axtell · June 21, 2006 3:33PM

Great come from behind win, after Washburn was left in too long and the M's were down 5-2 (final count was 8-5). It was their 5th consecutive win, their longest of the season.

Beltre was huge again, driving in the go ahead run and upping his BA to .250, which was at .189 at the end of April, Ichiro's hit streak up to 20 (longest in the AL this year), and Lopez had 2 more RBI. Putz cleaned up the 9th for his 12th save in 13 opps, lowering his ERA to 2.31.

The M's are one game under .500 and only 3.5 out in the west behind the just as hot A's.

WinPitcher · June 22, 2006 9:37AM

Voting is for the starters. It is for the fans. If lopez or whoever is deserving they will be chosen by the Manager/coaches.

Steve

Axtell · June 22, 2006 9:41AM

And the starter should be the best players...which in this case is obviously Lopez.

softparade · June 22, 2006 9:49AM

<< And the starter should be the best players...which in this case is obviously Lopez. >>

wrong. You have already been told and shown the facts that they are in fact neck and neck in play this year. You are worse than any Yankee fan you try to knock for such biased behavior.

bri2327 · June 22, 2006 9:59AM

I havnt seen Lopez play enough and try not to base things strictly on numbers. I think the fact that its between Lopez and Cano show that all the crapola about Cano being lousy was just that, crapola.

Axtell · June 22, 2006 10:03AM

No they are not neck and neck, Lopez/Cano are similar in BA and OBP while Lopez is killing him in HR and RBI.

Next topic please?

softparade · June 22, 2006 10:12AM

<< No they are not neck and neck, Lopez/Cano are similar in BA and OBP while Lopez is killing him in HR and RBI.

Next topic please? >>

Killing Cano in home runs? 9 dingers 5 to is killing him? Only in M's land!

Also, for the record Cano is hitting .324 Lopez is hitting .274 How is that similiar? Lopez On base % is .315 Cano's is .349 again, NOT similiar. Lopez has Cano in Rbi's by ALOT. Lopez also strikes out ALOT more than Cano.

Bottom line, they have very comparable overall numbers. Both fine players and BOTH deserving of an all-star nod

bri2327 · June 22, 2006 10:20AM

<< Look, softy, if you want to ramble on and on about the 'next Carew', take it to your yankee page.

This is for M's talk. >>

LMFAO !!!!!

If that isnt the single most hypocritical thing I have ever read I dunno what is !!!!!!!!!!

Axtell · June 22, 2006 10:46AM

You yankee 'fans' sure are somethin' else, ya know that?

Piss and moan about people defacing your precious yankees thread, but you come in here and do exactly that.

bri2327 · June 22, 2006 10:51AM

Hey man, now ya know how it feels dontcha ?

Axtell · June 22, 2006 12:17PM

<< Hey man, now ya know how it feels dontcha ? >>

Hey sparky, I left your yankees thread intact...you should show the same courtesy.

ToppsCo1lector · June 22, 2006 12:23PM

But honestly .324 to .274 is a huge differential. I personally caught my first M's game of the season last night on replay around 3 am.

WinPitcher · June 22, 2006 1:43PM

<< And the starter should be the best players...which in this case is obviously Lopez. >>

Wrong. the starter should be the guy chosen by the fans. Does not matter who is having the better yr. (To those voting at least)

If a guy (Lopez) is having such a great yr. the fans will notice and vote for him. If he does not garner the most votes the Manager will choose him.

Steve

Axtell · June 22, 2006 2:38PM

WP-

The starter should be the best player at his position. Yes, I understand it's voted on by the fans, but hmm, how much press are the M's getting back east when people are in bed when their games are on tv?

He should be the starter, as he's having the best year, but I'll be more than happy to have him selected as a reserve.

softparade · June 22, 2006 7:35PM

No way a guy hitting .274 is having a "obviously" better year then a guy hitting .322 and in the top 10 in the American League. Unless you are using a complete biased opinion.

Cano has earned his votes and deserves to start. Lopez will be a nice back up..... as will Mark Loretta? WHo knows. Ozzie Guillen is from Venezuela and so is Lopez.

ToppsCo1lector · June 22, 2006 8:47PM

<< WP-

The starter should be the best player at his position. Yes, I understand it's voted on by the fans, but hmm, how much press are the M's getting back east when people are in bed when their games are on tv?

He should be the starter, as he's having the best year, but I'll be more than happy to have him selected as a reserve. >>

How is batting 40 points less having a better year?

Anyway....
Beltre's Batting .250, he's a lifetime .270 hitter(which is high due to his contract year). I think it's fair to say he's getting overpaid(12.7 million per).
Sexsons batting .212, another bad investment at 13 million per.

WinPitcher · June 22, 2006 11:08PM

how much press are the M's getting back east when people are in bed when their games are on tv?

How much press are the M's getting anywhere outside of Seattle? And what the heck does that have to do with anything? They do not know how to vote out west? What is your point?

If the guy is having such a great year (ala pujols) fans everywhere will vote for him.

We fans here in the East read the papers, look at box scores and contrary to what you like to think see the M's highlights on ESPN as often as we see every other teams.

get out and vote! and stop whining.

Steve

Axtell · June 23, 2006 2:42AM

And the NY 'fans' can't help themselves but to try to pile on.

Sexson has been a fabulous pickup, had a great year last year. Thanks for failing to mention THAT. He should have been the AL comeback player of the year, not that bum Giambi. Beltre has been a disappointment, but since his move to #2 in the lineup, he's been on fire.

Both signings were an overreaction to Seattle management after 2 years scoring the fewest runs in the league...they needed to sign players in hopes of providing some offense.

And again, those who think Cano should be the starter fail to address the immense protection he receives by having a fantasy lineup behind him. Put him in, oh, hell, Pittsburgh and watch his batting average hover at .240.

ToppsCo1lector · June 23, 2006 2:46AM

How is batting .212 while being paid 13 million a success story? Lol, your more than reaching there Ax. What does this have to do with the Yankees, I'm strictly talking about the M's here.

I doubt Cano would bat .240 in any uniform. He's a great talent that hits for a high average. I honestly see him being the DJ of the 2 bag for the Yankees. Of course to some DJ is overrated, but hey I'll take DJ over the majority of SS's who were in the league within the past decade to say the least.

Anyway back to the M's....I have to agree to horrible signings in Beltre and Sexson.

Axtell · June 23, 2006 2:52AM

<< How is batting .212 while being paid 13 million a success story? Lol, your more than reaching there Ax. What does this have to do with the Yankees, I'm strictly talking about the M's here. >>

Why don't you look at what he did last year? Christ is it that hard?

.263 with 39 homers and 121 RBIs? Or did you conveniently leave that out in hopes of making a point? Yes, his BA is suffering this year. No, the year isn't over. Yes, there's a lot of baseball left to be played.

<< Anyway back to the M's....I have to agree to horrible signings in Beltre and Sexson. >>

As if you are to talk...the yankees are horrible signing after horrible signing.

ToppsCo1lector · June 23, 2006 2:58AM

Well....whatever happened last year happened last year. That doesn't make an ounce of difference in this conversation. You left out he is a career .266 hitter who averages 38 homers and 119 ribbies per season. So basically, he went back to what he was LAST season. He'll end up near those numbers with just a lower average. Hey, I've said repeatedly I'd like to see Giambi and Sheff both off the team ASAP. You seem to forget that and bring up the same mundane points over and over.

Axtell · June 23, 2006 3:00AM

If a guy is going to give me nearly 40 HRs and 120 RBIs a year, and bats .266, sign him up.

Where did I talk about Sheff? I talked about Giambi because he won the AL comeback player of the year award last year, when it should have been Sexson.

The 'Official' Official Mariners Thread

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