...this 100 point scale idea is being promoted by the "leader in the coin grading industry"...
As far as I can tell, PCGS is not yet promoting the 100 point scale. Additionally, PCGS is probably only considering the shift because they fear the consequences of another service beating them to the punch.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
PCGS is probably only considering the shift because they fear the consequences of another service beating them to the punch.
I doubt this. I think that any such venture would only be successful if PCGS and NGC adopted it jointly. If any of the other services tried it first, those two would just point their fingers and laugh at it until it went away.
Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt.
<< <i>PCGS is probably only considering the shift because they fear the consequences of another service beating them to the punch.
I doubt this. I think that any such venture would only be successful if PCGS and NGC adopted it jointly. If any of the other services tried it first, those two would just point their fingers and laugh at it until it went away.
Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt. >>
Unless the ANA or another group recommended such a move, I would guess that TPGs would have to be concerned about charges of collusion if 2 companies making up a majority of the market did such a thing.
On another note, has anyone ever seen the USCF as united on an issue as this? The nays exceed the yeas by at least twofold in this thread. Don
<< <i>Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt. >>
Well, we know THAT can't be. Why, that would take something like maybe running the concept up some forum flagpole and getting everyone so upset that they would complain and ridicule it and.....and....uh....hmmm.
I asked David Hall about this several years ago when PCGS had informational meetings at Long Beach.
It was not addressed at that time.
A 100 point system may indeed may be inevitable. The TPG's are running out of #'s.
Numismatics, as a hobby, does not need numerical grading.
Registry numismatics does need numerical grading. More and more new collectors are only purchasing encapsulated coins. It will take time to sell the idea of a new grading system to the public, but it will probably get done.
In the mean time, it is my suggestion and urging, that serious collectors reduce grading to dollars and cents.
Simply, is this coin something that I like and am I comfortable with the price.
Clearly those that are following the registry concept for their collections will adopt to a new system, eventually.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
<< <i>A 100 point system may indeed may be inevitable. The TPG's are running out of #'s. >>
This may be true, but lets look at the big picture in the future. When confronted with a limit of 100 grade points, TPGs may still run out of numbers... KISS
if you guys think this would be bad for PCGS, i'd certainly like to hear the reasoning behind that point of view. instead of hoping to avoid it, i would expect them to hope to adopt it, probably sooner than later. i'm actually surprised they warned us.
a change in the assigned numerical grade of holdered coins surely works to the disadvantage of the average collector who makes up the majority of slabbed coin owners.
<< <i><STRONG>In the mean time, it is my suggestion and urging, that serious collectors reduce grading to dollars and cents.
Simply, is this coin something that I like and am I comfortable with the price.</STRONG> >>
This is great advice. You sound like you've been around a while.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I think 100 point scale would be great. Values wouldn't be so significantly different for 1 point. It may lesson the desire to resubmit resubmit as only 1 point won't do so well. How about give a coin a range say an 88-90 out of 100. And hard to grade coins, like one with great surfaces but weak strike could be graded with the end grades further apart (you can consider it the lower grade if you like strike, the higher grade if you prefer clean surfaces). Again, probably resubmitting and getting an 89-91 or an 88-91 wouldn't make much of a difference.
There is a catch though. The grading standards would have to be written in stone, and stuck to by ALL graders. I know I could easily rate all my Lincolns on a finer scale, even like ms65.7 or ms66.1 and be consistent, so certainly a professional grader could do that, but a problem would arise with different graders and differing opinions.
<< <i>There is a catch though. The grading standards would have to be written in stone, and stuck to by ALL graders. I know I could easily rate all my Lincolns on a finer scale, even like ms65.7 or ms66.1 and be consistent, so certainly a professional grader could do that, but a problem would arise with different graders and differing opinions. >>
Isn't this the entire issue?
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The only way I would vote for a 100 pt system is if the following items are taken care of:
1) PCGS pays for the regrading and shipping of ALL of my coins that are graded using the old 70 pt. system
2) PCGS guarantees that the grade for each coin would be the same (or higher ) than it is on the 70 pt. system
Personally, I don't think it will ever happen. What the hell is the difference between at PR69DCAM Lincoln Cent and a PR98DCAM Lincoln Cent? Absolutely nothing. It's just numbers for gods sake people. It doesn't change the coin!!
Everyone complains about overgraded coins; would a new 100 pt. system remove these from the market and place more accurately graded coins out there? Also, what would happen to the crackout/upgrade business?
Almost Really Good Almost REALLY REALLY GOOD Very Good VERY VERY GOOD VERY VERY Good and DESIRABLE Just About Fine Fine FULL Fine REALLY Fine Very Fine Very Fine and Pushing Better Extremely Fine Supercalifragilisticexpialidociously Fine Almost Uncirculated REALLY Almost Uncirculated Really Uncirculated But Rubbed and Slid a Bit Uncirculated STRICTLY Uncirculated. Pretty Well Unused Choice Uncirculated Really Choice Uncirculated BRILLIANT Uncirculated Gem Uncirculated Monster Gem Uncirculated About Screamer Very Screamer EXTREMELY SCREAMER
There must be more. I didn't count them but they would work.
My thoughts on the subject tho I'm not an expert on the subject
A google search on 100 point coin grading scale didn't give me any info? I'll assume MS70=MS100 on the scale.
As far as the new scale goes for TPG's I would think it has got to be all or none....Otherwise total mass confusion!
As far as grading a coins goes I'd think that with PROPER TRAINING AND THE EYE FOR IT the more numbers available the more accurate grading COULD BE. Doesn't mean it will be.
Should a coin that otherwise would be a perfect MS70 if it was not for say any 1 tiny little imperfection not be worth more than another coin that may have a couple?
PCGS and NGC do keep records of the coins they have graded....Not sure how much info they keep other than type, grade, etc. Photo's ?
1) Would it not be possible for them to supply upon request some sort of replacement label with matching numbers the new grade and some form of safety such as a holo to be placed on the back of the slab? Maybe for a small fee....I know this would not be a perfect answer but would be figured by some sort of generic calculation base on the new grading scale. Not for huge ego'd collectors tho
2) PCGS and NGC have new grade option added for a reasonable price in which they get a good look at the coin again and can assign a more accurate grade....The coin would be kept in original slab and have a more accurate grade applied....The coin would be left in the original slab and banded similar to an NGC GSA $1
3) Crack and prey! With more available numbers there will be a little more room to take things into account such as very good strike vs lack of luster etc.
By simply chosing it as a topic of discussion at the luncheon, PCGS is putting it on everyone's radar (plus making sure there's plenty of attendance and passionate discussion). I'd say some sort of change is coming. Might as well put your big boy boxers on and deal with it.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
If they are planning to speak about it publicly, I expect that they are planning to roll it out. What better place to announce their intention than the Registry Luncheon. I will redouble my effort to make sure that I am there.
A 100 point scale makes sense. Just about everything else is established on a 10base system. Percentages, which is what it would/could be equated to, makes "math" sense.
A grade is still just an opinion this will not affect that, it will only help to better quantify that opinion.
Hey I got it! The MS70 scale was a ...value....scale to Sheldon.
So ..... we just take the most expensive coin and make that the top number. What is it now? 7.6 million? Simple math. Top grade is MS 7600000. So the 1933 Saint takes that number. Then if ya buy some crummy cheapie at like $125,000 you get THAT for a grade.
Yeah? Do I hear clappin?
Thinka the REGISTRY. Only ONE top dog. The resta the crowd just lappin up dreck.
Course it could drive someone to just collect a coin again and not even BOTHER to slab it. Or maybe just an AUTHENTIC slab and then let the slug stand on its own.
What pure idiocy ... any TPG adopting a 100-point system will not receive my business or purchase of their slabs. But, it could a good cottage industry for those looking to live off the PCGS guarantee ... send in a 95 for a grade review and PCGS only gives it a 92 ... show me the money! Really, we do need more grades than three in AU and MS/PR 60-70? Since the advent of TPGs, collectors have endeavored to learn their specialties based on TPG grading and some have become proficient. We're going to throw all that out and start over? Can't wait to see the grading books describing how a 96 differs from a 97 differs from a 98, etc...
I guess they figure there's nothing to lose. If customers are so stupid that they can't tell that one 65 is worth more than a different 65, then .....wotdahell.... they'll put up with anything.
High time for a PAID registry. You BUY points. Or go to Vegas and find a bookie to SPREAD em.
I've seen this discussion go from angry opposition and blatant dismissal to almost acquiescence in one day. If it's going to be that easy for them, get out your money now.
You don't win battles by assuming you are going to lose. If you oppose it, then assume it will not happen, and that you are willing to do everything it takes to prevent it. If you don't want it, fight it, at every opportunity. Beginning with this panel discussion. If you're there and oppose it, stand up and be heard. Beginning with pm's to the Man. Emails. If you think it will only benefit the tpg's, and it will obviously enrich them, but will not contribute to numismatics, say that out loud. Accuse them of what you are saying here.
You guys are going from wolves to sheep in record time.
-------------------------
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I forsee grades like 63.5 and 66.75 as being more likely to happen before a change to a 100 point scale and I don't see PCGS as being the TPG who starts it.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you're doing... My Web Sites
It doesn't have to happen, no matter what Abe says. If you talk it to death, and rationalize it like he does, then you will be letting it happen to you. If it does nothing to further numismatics, and yet you allow the tpg's to get away with it, they really will have completely taken over your beloved hobby. You guys see that, right? They are in business, they do it to make money. Is that why you collect? There are competing goals and interests here. I have seen many make derisive comments about kool-aid drinkers here. Well, here's a true test as to whether you are one or not. Is all this about the tpg's? Or is it about numismatics, the hobby, the science, the passion?
There should be but one question you should ask when deciding whether you will let this happen or not. And know that it will not with broad, vocal oppostion. That question is:
Is it good for numismatics?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Do you think fewer books will get published? Fewer articles will get written? Will there be fewer varieties searched for? Will there be less coins studied? I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible. I don't even think the average collector would notice much difference.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you're doing... My Web Sites
Don't answer a question with a question, you'll flunk Debating-101. That post was nothing but a series of non sequiturs. Is it good for numismatics? That's the only criteria that matters. Want to try again, and answer the question this time?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
So let's see how this might work in practice. Let's say that grades 80-100 are mint state grades. In that case, a coin currently slabbed 60 would become either an 80 or an 81, depending on whether or not it is a high end 60. The only way to get the "right" grade on the new scale will be to have the graders regrade the coin. I wonder how much that will cost?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If PCGS wants to use decimal points and maintain the current system, this seems logical to me. OTOH, if they go to a 100 point scale, I will no longer buy PCGS slabbed material. If both PCGS and NGC go to a 100 point scale, I will leave the hobby. There are far too many problems with an 11 point uncirculated coin range.
I believe this is an admission that there aren't enough classic coins being received, nor are enough resubmissions being sent. Most classic coins are either in coffins, or more likely, properly graded by today's standards. The new material is overwhelming modern coins.
The idea of expanding the 70 point scale further IMO is absurd. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers will play along, but I won't.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
It would be interesting to see how many collectors would completely boycott the idea, and how pcgs or ngc would view that amount of collector resistance..... I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible
From the responses in this thread, I would guess that collectors would not ignore it as a "negligible effect"........
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
Do you think fewer books will get published? Fewer articles will get written? Will there be fewer varieties searched for? Will there be less coins studied? I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible. I don't even think the average collector would notice much difference. >>
At the risk of sounding cynical, all the TPGS's care about is the bottom line.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
NO! I also see this as correcting a serious issue for grading companies, that of being able to regrade what has already been graded. There aren't enough problem free non modern coins to grade anymore, so this appears to be a move to generate revenue. Grading by the 70 point scale has become standard, and changing the primary standard will cause mistakes and disagreements. I don't want to go through such growing pains, so if this happens, I'm out of coins too. That's difficult to say but easy to do when it's your hard earned bucks at stake.
I wonder if this will be the issue that kills off this market? Nothing like confusing standards to generate (lack of) confidence on the part of buyers and newcomers. Buying nice coins will be one's best defense, but the reason I'd stop participating is because of the obvious manipulation at work, and because changing standards breeds inconsistency, lack of market confidence and an over-reliance on forces that determine the market.
i personally don't think that PCGS considers what the effects of it's service is on Numismatics. if they did, they would have been doing quite a few things differently for quite a long time. they would be more responsive to the requests of the collecting community. now, if you had asked Is it good for PCGS?? my answer would be a resounding yes.
The TPGS's don't care about what's good for numismatics. They only care about what's good for the bottom line.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe this will be like New Coke, they'll release the 100 point grading scale, everyone will balk, then we go back to "Coke Classic" or to the 70 point scale.
I don't like the idea but if PCGS goes ahead with it and NGC falls in line I think resistance will eventually crumble and dealers and collectors will fall in line.
I imagine PCGS is getting plenty of angry emails about this and they probably expected it.
I wish I could be at the forum at FUN where this will be discussed. I'm sure it would be very interesting to hear David Hall's explanation as to why this is a good thing.
HURRY HURRY! STEP RITE UP! Don't get caught in da confusion. Send yer money real quick an get the FIRST.....TOPSTUF CONVERSION CHART !!!
Be the first to save money. Instantly converts 70 points to 100 points. Available in "map" format if desired. Or DEE-LUXE Corinthian leather bound SPECIAL "Advanced" collector pouch.
Carry to coin shows and shops. Display your expertise.
I thought one of the main points of a 100 scale were to elimate the definitions of AU, MS, etc. Meaning a current AU58 could grade higher then MS60 if was a better coin. I'm not sure where I read this but I would be for that. I don't think it fare that a great looking coin that may have a slight rub get stuck with a max technical grade of 58.
No need for star designation. If your coins are registered with PCGS, we'll cross them for you at X for the reholder fee, or we'll count them in the registry as X and allow you to keep the old holder. If, however, your coins deserve a few extra points, say 77 instead of 75, spend the regrade fee and you'll get to count a PQ coin as PQ. Almost an 80? OK, sell it for 79 money. If a coin downgrades from 70 to 69, we'll pay the difference in 1 point instead of 5 in the grade guaranty. Sound good?
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Comments
As far as I can tell, PCGS is not yet promoting the 100 point scale. Additionally, PCGS is probably only considering the shift because they fear the consequences of another service beating them to the punch.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I doubt this. I think that any such venture would only be successful if PCGS and NGC adopted it jointly. If any of the other services tried it first, those two would just point their fingers and laugh at it until it went away.
Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt.
<< <i>PCGS is probably only considering the shift because they fear the consequences of another service beating them to the punch.
I doubt this. I think that any such venture would only be successful if PCGS and NGC adopted it jointly. If any of the other services tried it first, those two would just point their fingers and laugh at it until it went away.
Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt.
Unless the ANA or another group recommended such a move, I would guess that TPGs would have to be concerned about charges of collusion if 2 companies making up a majority of the market did such a thing.
On another note, has anyone ever seen the USCF as united on an issue as this? The nays exceed the yeas by at least twofold in this thread.
Don
<< <i>Unless, of course, the consequences they fear are that one of the others tries it first and then they have to publically kill the golden goose that they intended to adopt. >>
Well, we know THAT can't be. Why, that would take something like maybe running the concept up some forum flagpole and getting everyone so upset that they would complain and ridicule it and.....and....uh....hmmm.
I think more people would be hung up on whether their coin is a 99 or a 99.5 or a 99.85 ect.
It was not addressed at that time.
A 100 point system may indeed may be inevitable. The TPG's are running out of #'s.
Numismatics, as a hobby, does not need numerical grading.
Registry numismatics does need numerical grading. More and more new collectors are only purchasing encapsulated coins. It will take time to sell the idea of a new grading system to the public, but it will probably get done.
In the mean time, it is my suggestion and urging, that serious collectors reduce grading to dollars and cents.
Simply, is this coin something that I like and am I comfortable with the price.
Clearly those that are following the registry concept for their collections will adopt to a new system, eventually.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>A 100 point system may indeed may be inevitable. The TPG's are running out of #'s. >>
This may be true, but lets look at the big picture in the future. When confronted with a limit of 100 grade points, TPGs may still run out of numbers... KISS
a change in the assigned numerical grade of holdered coins surely works to the disadvantage of the average collector who makes up the majority of slabbed coin owners.
<< <i><STRONG>In the mean time, it is my suggestion and urging, that serious collectors reduce grading to dollars and cents.
Simply, is this coin something that I like and am I comfortable with the price.</STRONG> >>
This is great advice. You sound like you've been around a while.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
There is a catch though. The grading standards would have to be written in stone, and stuck to by ALL graders. I know I could easily rate all my Lincolns on a finer scale, even like ms65.7 or ms66.1 and be consistent, so certainly a professional grader could do that, but a problem would arise with different graders and differing opinions.
<< <i>There is a catch though. The grading standards would have to be written in stone, and stuck to by ALL graders. I know I could easily rate all my Lincolns on a finer scale, even like ms65.7 or ms66.1 and be consistent, so certainly a professional grader could do that, but a problem would arise with different graders and differing opinions. >>
Isn't this the entire issue?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
1) PCGS pays for the regrading and shipping of ALL of my coins that are graded using the old 70 pt. system
2) PCGS guarantees that the grade for each coin would be the same (or higher
Personally, I don't think it will ever happen. What the hell is the difference between at PR69DCAM Lincoln Cent and a PR98DCAM Lincoln Cent? Absolutely nothing. It's just numbers for gods sake people. It doesn't change the coin!!
Almost Really Good
Almost REALLY REALLY GOOD
Very Good
VERY VERY GOOD
VERY VERY Good and DESIRABLE
Just About Fine
Fine
FULL Fine
REALLY Fine
Very Fine
Very Fine and Pushing Better
Extremely Fine
Supercalifragilisticexpialidociously Fine
Almost Uncirculated
REALLY Almost Uncirculated
Really Uncirculated But Rubbed and Slid a Bit
Uncirculated
STRICTLY Uncirculated.
Pretty Well Unused
Choice Uncirculated
Really Choice Uncirculated
BRILLIANT Uncirculated
Gem Uncirculated
Monster Gem Uncirculated
About Screamer
Very Screamer
EXTREMELY SCREAMER
There must be more. I didn't count them but they would work.
A google search on 100 point coin grading scale didn't give me any info? I'll assume MS70=MS100 on the scale.
As far as the new scale goes for TPG's I would think it has got to be all or none....Otherwise total mass confusion!
As far as grading a coins goes I'd think that with PROPER TRAINING AND THE EYE FOR IT the more numbers available the more accurate grading COULD BE. Doesn't mean it will be.
Should a coin that otherwise would be a perfect MS70 if it was not for say any 1 tiny little imperfection not be worth more than another coin that may have a couple?
PCGS and NGC do keep records of the coins they have graded....Not sure how much info they keep other than type, grade, etc. Photo's ?
1) Would it not be possible for them to supply upon request some sort of replacement label with matching numbers the new grade and some form of safety such as a holo to be placed on the back of the slab?
Maybe for a small fee....I know this would not be a perfect answer but would be figured by some sort of generic calculation base on the new grading scale. Not for huge ego'd collectors tho
2) PCGS and NGC have new grade option added for a reasonable price in which they get a good look at the coin again and can assign a more accurate grade....The coin would be kept in original slab and have a
more accurate grade applied....The coin would be left in the original slab and banded similar to an NGC GSA $1
3) Crack and prey! With more available numbers there will be a little more room to take things into account such as very good strike vs lack of luster etc.
Hmmm!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
With 11 MS grades already, it would only lead to arguing if the coin is a 92 or a 93 instead.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
those humungous jumps in price over one point. Thus spreading
value out, in a more even manner.
Camelot
<< <i>It might remove those humungous jumps in price over one point.
Thus spreading value out, in a more even manner. >>
Wise Old Bear
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
A grade is still just an opinion this will not affect that, it will only help to better quantify that opinion.
So ..... we just take the most expensive coin and make that the top number. What is it now? 7.6 million?
Simple math. Top grade is MS 7600000. So the 1933 Saint takes that number. Then if ya buy some crummy cheapie at like $125,000 you get THAT for a grade.
Yeah? Do I hear clappin?
Thinka the REGISTRY. Only ONE top dog. The resta the crowd just lappin up dreck.
Course it could drive someone to just collect a coin again and not even BOTHER to slab it.
Or maybe just an AUTHENTIC slab and then let the slug stand on its own.
Uh oh, am I on a hit list now?
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
High time for a PAID registry. You BUY points. Or go to Vegas and find a bookie to SPREAD em.
Leading TPGs change in policy to allow decimal grading (e.g. MS64.5) for mint state coins: very likely
Discussion of the first to make the second seem like the lesser of two evils: Apparently working according to plan
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
You don't win battles by assuming you are going to lose. If you oppose it, then assume it will not happen, and that you are willing to do everything it takes to prevent it. If you don't want it, fight it, at every opportunity. Beginning with this panel discussion. If you're there and oppose it, stand up and be heard. Beginning with pm's to the Man. Emails. If you think it will only benefit the tpg's, and it will obviously enrich them, but will not contribute to numismatics, say that out loud. Accuse them of what you are saying here.
You guys are going from wolves to sheep in record time.
-------------------------
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
like it or note. Of the several benefits of the 100 system, is the
ability to be more specific as to lower, mid and high end coins for the curent grade
also grade price increased will tend to smooth out in a more graduated manner. Finally
the expanded system will make an error of 1 point, far less damaging in the overall scheme of things.
A parting thought, perhaps the crack out game might abate, as 1 point increases will not represent any
significant windfall for those who specialise in crackouts.
Camelot
My Web Sites
There should be but one question you should ask when deciding whether you will let this happen or not. And know that it will not with broad, vocal oppostion. That question is:
Is it good for numismatics?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i> Is it good for numismatics? >>
Do you think fewer books will get published? Fewer articles will get written? Will there be fewer varieties searched for? Will there be less coins studied? I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible. I don't even think the average collector would notice much difference.
My Web Sites
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I believe this is an admission that there aren't enough classic coins being received, nor are enough resubmissions being sent. Most classic coins are either in coffins, or more likely, properly graded by today's standards. The new material is overwhelming modern coins.
The idea of expanding the 70 point scale further IMO is absurd. Sure, the kool-aid drinkers will play along, but I won't.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible
From the responses in this thread, I would guess that collectors would not ignore it as a "negligible effect"........
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i> Is it good for numismatics? >>
Do you think fewer books will get published? Fewer articles will get written? Will there be fewer varieties searched for? Will there be less coins studied? I think the effect on numismatics would be negligible. I don't even think the average collector would notice much difference. >>
At the risk of sounding cynical, all the TPGS's care about is the bottom line.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Is it good for numismatics? >>
NO! I also see this as correcting a serious issue for grading companies, that of being able to regrade what has already been graded. There aren't enough problem free non modern coins to grade anymore, so this appears to be a move to generate revenue. Grading by the 70 point scale has become standard, and changing the primary standard will cause mistakes and disagreements. I don't want to go through such growing pains, so if this happens, I'm out of coins too. That's difficult to say but easy to do when it's your hard earned bucks at stake.
I wonder if this will be the issue that kills off this market? Nothing like confusing standards to generate (lack of) confidence on the part of buyers and newcomers. Buying nice coins will be one's best defense, but the reason I'd stop participating is because of the obvious manipulation at work, and because changing standards breeds inconsistency, lack of market confidence and an over-reliance on forces that determine the market.
How's that Pharmer? Woops that was a question!
i personally don't think that PCGS considers what the effects of it's service is on Numismatics. if they did, they would have been doing quite a few things differently for quite a long time. they would be more responsive to the requests of the collecting community. now, if you had asked Is it good for PCGS?? my answer would be a resounding yes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Shazaam, everyone gets confused.
crumble and dealers and collectors will fall in line.
I imagine PCGS is getting plenty of angry emails about this and they probably expected it.
I wish I could be at the forum at FUN where this will be discussed. I'm sure it would be very
interesting to hear David Hall's explanation as to why this is a good thing.
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Strike
Wear
Luster
Eye Appeal
Just IMHO....Mike