Tom P., your latest ("LOL") reply to Blueifalcon was extremely rude, not to mention, lame.
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same.
<< <i>Tom P., your latest ("LOL") reply to Blueifalcon was extremely rude, not to mention, lame.
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same. >>
Mark F, that's your opinion and considering I think you are a pansy, your opinion doesn't matter to me.
<< <i><< Why fool with E-bay at all in these large auctions? Doesn't E-bay charge an additional 5% fee? All of these companies provide their own websites where you can place a "mail" bid. If the rules of the game are tie bids go to floor bidders (not all firms work this way), then consider bidding one increment higher than you would ordinarily. >> >>
I don't know if the topic has been kicked around here but it certainly has in the paper currency forum. It has been noticed by many bidders how uncanny it is that whenever they place a maximum bid with certain auction companies that if they win the bid it is ALWAYS at the MAXIMUM. I noticed that myself and have since decided to either pay an agent or bid live online. Think about it, some of these companies own a lot of what they auction. If you send in a "mail bid" at 2000 and the only other bids come up to 1500, do you really think they are going to sell it to you at 1600 when you have already commited to paying 2000?
I remember one auction company that even told me that if you sent in a max bid and the other bids were not as high as the low estimate that you would be sold the lot at THE LOW ESTIMATE not the opening bid even if you were the only bidder.
The auction companies need to be an impartial third party in order to be honestly run. When they are buying and selling in thier own auctions the potential for dishonest and unethical dealing in grading and bid manipulation is overwhelming.
<< <i>When they are buying and selling in thier own auctions the potential for dishonest and unethical dealing in grading and bid manipulation is overwhelming. >>
Seems like its just another area that needs to be cleaned up within this hobby. Under no circumstances should an auction house sell their own material along side that of a consignor. A completely seperate auction of house coins would be fine, but as soon as you place a coin into competition vs. your client, you have breeched your fidciuary duty to your client.
It just amazes me what people in this hobby put up with as "business as usual."
Tom P is very rude. His posts are worthless and he adds nothing but rudeness and moronism (new word, just for him) to the forums (at least, that I have seen in the last number of months). He likes to bash others and bash the government and the way the US is but adds nothing constructive.
My guess is that Blueifalcon's first name may be "Tom"......from the way he replied in the post that "mrearlygold" is mouthing off about.
Blueifalcon....don't let the morons like "mrearlygold", who figure they are elite to the world, bother you hear. Better to ignore the lame like that. There is a lot of knowledge on these forums....just gotta go through the chafe (sic?) to get to it. As for paying so you can get to this site....I am guessing you mean you joined the Collector's Club or something? The site is actually free and you don't need to be a member.
You will see some anti-slab bigots here and I really doubt they would pay to post or even read here, but they do contribute valuable knowledge at times. You will see some anti-modern bigots as well, but, again, they will contribute valuable knowledge at times as well.
Back to the point of the thread.......
Anyone got the proverbial "batphone" to the goldberg's (even though they must be very busy this week ) and ask them if that is par for the course (the way the TP Nut was handled)?
The problem here is that some of us consider this a hobby while to others it is a con game to clean the fish. Unfortunately those with the power to clean up this mess and set standards are usually those who are making the most from the status quo.
I'll say it again. You need to read the terms of an auction -- and agree with them -- before bidding in that particular auction. You can complain all you want, but if their terms are not satisfactory to you and you bid in the auction nevetheless, it's YOUR problem, not the problem of the auction house.
If you want to bid via E-Bay and the terms of the auction are silent in this matter, you are taking your chances. If these terms are unclear, it is your obligation to get them clarified before you bid. No one is looking out for you; that's your job.
I don't bid in some auctions because according to their terms, there are no returns on slabbed material, even if you are not viewing these lots. To me, this is not acceptable, hence, I don't bid. It isn't really all that complicated.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I was just on the Goldberg site and they are showing the price realized for lot#558 as $138 including the 15% juice. I find that either strange or poor management, based on the comments in this thread.
As an aside, I bid on a lot in the auction via Ebay. This is my first for Goldberg. I received an email that I had won the lot and the price realized supports that assessment. I have emailed them, but have yet to receive a reply. Perhaps I will after the auction closes today.
<< <i>I would have thought the "fair" thing to do and the action most in the interest of their consignor would be to contact the floor bidder -- if the coin hadn't been picked up yet, and tell him -- we have a bid @ $200 that was not entered because of Ebay problems, would you like to match that bid? >>
<< <i> I think your remedy for the situation sounds reasonable to me. >>
Until you look at it from the floor bidders point of view. He bids, has the lot hammered down to him, then a day or two later he gets contacted and is in effect told "Hey, pay us close to twice what you won the lot for or you can't have it."
Russ is right though, if the eBay connection went down the Goldbergs would have no way to know what the high proxy is and they would have to operate under the assumption that the proxy had been reached.
The problem seems to be that the eBay connection is unstable or gets overloaded and goes down frequently. The auction can't stop and wait for it to get fixed so they have to proceed without it.
I've had the same problem with E-bay live auctions with antique cologne bottles. I left a bid of $800 on a bottle that was estimated to sell for $200-400. It OPENED at my highest bid! It was supposed to open at $50, I lost to a floor biddre. Another time I lost to a floor bidder when I outbid him/her by $500!!! E-bay live has not been very nice to me. I've had good results from Heritage but will avoid Goldberg at all costs because of this thread. Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
<< <i>He went on to explain that he owns a "duty" to the people that fly in for his auctions, pay airfare, hotel and food. >>
How in the hell does Goldberg know the floor bidder paid for airfare, hotel and food? Last time I checked, Long Beach and the surrounding area had a VERY healthy population. Isn't it possible that the floor bidder lives up the street and simply took a strole down to the auction house during his lunch break?
Furthermore, what does having to buy food have to do with selling a coin. Do people living outside of the greater Long Beach area live via photosynthesis?
All this time, I've been giving Burger King, KFC, and McDonald's my hard earned money when all I had to do was stand in the parking lot and absorb some rays.
<< <i>Tom P., your latest ("LOL") reply to Blueifalcon was extremely rude, not to mention, lame.
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same. >>
Mark F, that's your opinion and considering I think you are a pansy, your opinion doesn't matter to me. >>
With unprofessional comments like that, I wonder how you stay in the coin business. I don't see calling competitors "pansies" as being a very effective marketing strategy!
hi i had troble with the live ebay auction.i will not bid on ebay live anymore.as the goldberg auctions. i have never had any kind of trobles there.there site dose not have everthing work out real good yet.it not real user friendly. i just got a real nice gold coin there.see the coin here --http://www.goldbergauctions.com/cgi-bin/viewlot.pl?site=1&sale=28&lot=2381 littlejohn
Well I think I should chime in here....... (Goldberg Employee), sorry for the tardiness not everyone reads the boards to often. First off this post has really nothing to do with consigning?
First of all the person in question here is no longer with the company and things will dramatically improve here at the Goldbergs. I think you all will welcome our new employee Glenn Onishi. This will tell you a few things for you who know. As far as the way you were treated TonedPeaceNut please accept my apology. Although I have no circumstances behind this instance there is no reason why you were ever hung up on. This should have been dealt with in a much more mature and professional fashion. But please understand something when we have over 6000 bids placed during a sale there maybe some overlooked. As well after a auction we have every person that has bid on ebay call us asking for there prices. You should understand that calling the day after a sale is not a real good time to call and start asking a bunch of questions that has to do with an ebay issue. Like calling the IRS on April 16th. See my point things have to get entered into the systems properly and correctly, it doesnt happen by itself. Is all I can say is that I hope that you bid with us in the future but if you dont happy collecting and understand this could have happened at any auction firm in the world and it will happen again.
Let me answer a key question. What is our plan if ebay goes down? If ebay goes down there is no way for us to plan for it. Beacuse it is a live auction the floor bidder will be the only bidders. Simply put if ebay goes down the issue should be with ebay not us. Everyone needs to realize that eBay has problems, if you want to bid live or otherwise you take the risk. Ebay went down many times during our last sale. Hense we may not offer ebay live bidding to US Coin collectors in future sales it is simple to disruptive and is unfare to the floor bidders. We will still offer it to our overseas bidders though. Lets go over how ebay works... Bidder enters in his bids and ebay bids for him via proxy bidding. The bid is stored in ebays computers and then sent to us DURING the auction, as a seller you do not know what the high bid is. When the auction is taking place there is a control module that allows us to either accept the bid or not. As well control where the bidding increments are to the eBay livebidder. The module controls incoming bids from ebay as well. We only see a incremental price and the bidder user ID. We have no way of knowing where the persons high bid is. If for some reason ebay is having problems NO EBAY BIDS ARE RECOGNIZED ebay live or ebay because we have no way of knowing who bids. Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot. We cant wait for Ebay to come back online. Because of the amount of auctions taking place we all have to work together to make sure we schedule our auction to allow bidders to bid in all the sales. This holds true to every auction firm that uses ebay live we are no exception.
How to resolve the ebay situation Register to bid on our website, if you have bid with us in the past you should be under normal circumstances "approved". You will pay 5% less commission and will be assured of getting your bid in. You wont be able to watch and bid "live" but this will be changing in due time. There is no perfect auction house out there, not one.
If you want to reply to me directly or if you have any question feel free to contact me directly lyle@goldbergcoins.com
Numismatic Photographer for Superior/Ira & Larry Goldberg since 1990, Photographer of THE TYRANT COLLECTION one of the greatest collection ever formed.
I hate it when you get excuses for poor customer service, such as the standard "we had X thousands of customers to take care of, so that was a bad time to take care of you". After being in the auction business for decades, Goldberg should know what their customer service needs are, and staff accordingly.
Goldberg's very late attempt at damage control here does not show they value TPN as a customer, and shows very little commitment to get things right. Goldberg certainly will not be seeing any business from me.
You seem to think that every coin collector, auctioneer etc... looks at this site. You are simply wrong.
Sorry we have lost you as a potential customer. I did respond to a question, most will not give you the time of day. Anyone who knows me and deals with me in this industry know that I bend over backward for everyone that I deal with. And yes, many on this board. And even a few I dont even know.
I hate it when people bash us that have never even done business with us before. There are two sides to every story.
Numismatic Photographer for Superior/Ira & Larry Goldberg since 1990, Photographer of THE TYRANT COLLECTION one of the greatest collection ever formed.
Since I started the thread, please allow me to respond Lyle --
First, thanks for taking the time to search through and find this thread. I'm pleased someone alerted your office to it. And thanks for being quite honest in your post and apology
Mistakes happen to everyone. Its not the mistake, its how a person/company reacts to it and neutralizes its effect that counts.
I understand that your office has no control over Ebay, however, if you offer it, you must live by it and deal with the outtages, most are extremely brief. In my case the Ebay Live connection was restored within 4 minutes. Otherwise, it appears that offering Ebay Live is only for your benefit and not that of your customers.
By dropping the Ebay Live option is, in my opinion, myopic. If I were a consignor I would want to consign my coins to an auction company that has the greatest exposure. Ebay Live just provides more possible bidders than just the floor. And in regards to the lot I bid on -- it certainly would have provided the consignor with a much larger profit than the winning floor bid, if you merely would have waited for the connection to restablish. Legally speaking, you have a fiduciary duty to your consignors, not your floor bidders. By not waiting for the connection to reestablish, your breached your duty. That's why I stated to "becareful if you are going to consign to the Goldbergs." Consignors have to come first.
Here's your own statement -- Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot.
No where mentioned was the consignor. In your sentence you mention the concerns of Goldberg first. Consignor, buyer and then Goldberg.
What was most disconcerning to me was the way I was treated. Whether I call the next day or even the next hour, to hang up abruptly on a customer is inexcusable. I don't care if my office was on fire, I wouldn't hang up on one of my clients. Further, I wouldn't lie to my client in order to cover my mistake. If you are understaffed, again that is not my problem. Hire someone to handle the calls that you are aware that you'll receive after an auction.
Lastly, no one ever called to state an apology. You have my bidder #, when he hung up on me he was aware of my name. No effort was ever put forth to rectify the situation.
A simple, let us find you a similar set at a good price would have sufficed.
There are so many ways to do things wrong, your office manage to hit most of them.
I certainly won't consign and may not buy again from Goldberg. And I will certainly inform anyone who will listen of my situation.
I am looking at which firm might auction my coins this fall if I have to, the least I want if I sell my hard found coins is knowing that the person who bids the most "WILL" win the coin, NO EXCUSES PERIOD !!!
After what I've read here, I know who it won't be.
Les
The President claims he didn't lie about taxes for those earning less then $250,000 a year with public mandated health insurance yet his own justice department has said they will use the right of the government to tax when the states appeals go to court.
While I agree with many of TonedPeacedollarNut's points, I disagree with the concept of putting an auction on hold indefinitely in the event that Ebay goes down.
I have no problem with waiting a few minutes for things to get going again. But, at some (reasonable/realistic) point, you should resume the auction, or risk alienating other (non-ebay) bidders and end up hurting bidders and consignors in a different way.
I also think we need to keep in mind that not everyone visits this forum, and that for a number of legitimate reasons they can't always be expected to reply to our posts, just because we think (or know) they should.
I think everyone needs to get this straight. It has nothing specifically to do with the Goldbergs. Several of the auction houses use eBay Live. If you intend to participate in an auction via eBay Live, you MUST accept the notion that there is a possibility that it will not function. Sometimes it goes down completely, as happened at the last Goldberg sale in January. Other times just YOUR connection may freeze up or become too slow, and your live bid may not get executed. The auction house has NO responsibility for this.
Furthermore, bids placed on eBay PRIOR to the live auction are not submitted to the auction house as mail bids. Rather, they are essentially proxy bids instructing eBay live to execute bids for you during the live auction. Thus, if the eBay Live technology fails during the actual floor sale, your PRIOR bid will never get executed.
If you want to ensure that your cid is executed, you must either: (1) attend the floor sale and bid on your own behalf, either in person or by phone; (2) engage a representative to bid at the floor sale for you (most auction regulars will do this for 2-5% of hammer depending on the value of the coin); or (3) leave your bid with the auction house prior to the session. Option (3) can be done by faxing, mailing, or e-mailing bids, or leaving them at the table before the session. By the way, even telephone bidding has its risks. Sometimes a cell phone doesn't work, or someone gets your number wrong, and they fail to get you on the phone in time.
You might ask, why would anyone use an eBay proxy bid, when you can just leave your mail bid with the auction house (and pay 5% less by doing so). That's right, the eBay buyer's fee is 20%, whereas the regular buyer's fee is 15%. So why would anyone do this? Obviously it is because there is a certain amount of distrust of the auction houses' handling of book bids. The feeling is that mail bids will automatically be maxed out. But even if they are, the extra 5% at eBay will probably have the same effect.
In any case, I am tired of hearing about people complaining about getting screwed via eBay Live. It is NOT the auction house's responsibility. YOU chose to use the eBay mechanism, which carries certain costs (5%), certain risks (ris of connection failure), certain benefits (you don't have to pay a representative or travel to the floor sale), and certain gains (nobody can max you out). That was your choice. Deal with it !!!!!!!
I agree with everything Sunnywood said. I also applaud Lyle's effort to comment. He cannot go back and change things now. TPN was hung up on by somebody twice. Lyle can't possibly be expected to change it. He says that they are making changes to prevent this situation from happening again. One option is to eliminate eBay Live auctions. He cannot be expected to have any control over eBay. Technology is great. Just think where you would be if there wasn't an internet at all? We wouldn't be here, you wouldn't see most of the coins that are available, and you wouldn't have the opportunity to bid live while not being there. If you wanted this set so bad, you should have either 1) been there in person; 2) placed a mail bid; 3) bid via phone (live); or 4) had someone who was going be there bid for you on the floor.
Let's be realistic. This is a 1958 double mint set. Yes the consignor didn't get the full money that he could have. You are also assuming that the floor bidder would have continued bidding up to your $200. Maybe you would have been the next higher bidder and it would have stopped at $150.
TPN, your comment:
<< <i>Here's your own statement -- Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot.
No where mentioned was the consignor. In your sentence you mention the concerns of Goldberg first. Consignor, buyer and then Goldberg. >>
If I was an auction house, I would also say "we" as in the auction house and the consignor.
The whole notion of asking Goldberg to wait for eBay to come back up is crazy. I'm not sure that Goldberg would even know if eBay went down. Also, what limits are you going to set on time? eBay computers go down for 12 hours. Should the auction house wait until the next day to hold the auction? All the floor bidders may have other plans and not be able to attend. THEN where would the consignor be? Hoping that the eBay Live bidders bring "strong" money?
IS THE COIN BUSINESS SO GOOD THAT AUCIOTN HOUSES CAN'T PRACTICE BASIC CUSTOMER SERVICE.
GOLDBERG NOT CALLING BACK OR ANSWERING E-MAIL IS NOT RIGHT.
I'M BOYCOTTING TELETRADE FOR THE SAME REASONS.
CALLED TWICE AND E-MAILED ONCE TO GET A SITUATION TAKEN CARE OF, BUT I GUESS 18+ YEARS OF BUSINESS AT MAYBE $50,000 PER YEAR DOESN'T PUT ME ON THE CALL BACK OR RETURN E-MAIL LIST.
YOU'D THINK THEY WOULD CALL YOU BACK TO GET THE FACTS AND SQUARE AWAY WITH SUCH A LONG TIME CUSTOMER, BUT THEN AGAIN.....
So much has been said about this situation, but here's some points I've gleaned:
1. Using EBay Live is often unreliable, costs more and may not always place one's bids.
2. It is to my advantage to attend floor sessions
3. If I cannot attend, then placing a bid through an agent is more worthwhile than paying an extra 5% to EBay
4. The floor session should not be delayed more than a couple moments for EBay problems
5. TPN was treated rudely and in an unprofessional manner.
I attend every Goldberg Sale and spend a fair amount of money in each of their auctions. I agree their floor sessions should not be delayed for EBay problems. I really don't mind waiting a moment or two for EBay hiccups, and from what I've observed, the Goldbergs wait a moment for final bids from EBay before closing a lot. So, the system is far from being seamless and perfect, and a better interface is needed.
However, I think the ultimate problem is one of trust. Here's why:
-Trust is certainly not engendered the way TPN was treated. They could have simply found him another mint set.
-If I had to pay more for a lot, because the auction house said a last minute bid was placed from Ebay, that would sound fishy to me. I would feel misled and let it go, which is a lack of trust in the veracity of the final bid. I would have no way of verifying the truth of the last minute bid.
-Many of us have had bad experiences at auction, so we mistrust the book bids.
-I have left written bids with the Goldbergs on several occassions, and they have not only honored them, but have won several lots below my max bid. So, they are one of the few auction houses I trust with executed bids. Again, a matter of trust.
-Many of you feel you would not get the highest prices for your consignment based on what has been said here. This is a huge matter of trust!
I think the addition of Glen Onishi to the Goldberg staff is going to improve the efficiency of their operation and their customer service. While I will miss doing business with him at Superior, I look forward to working with him at the Goldbergs. I hope he works to improve the relationship with all their customers, large and small. However, the auction situation is always the same. If you're going to bid, then figure out the most effective manner in which to execute that bid, and follow it. If you do not trust an auction house, then buy your coins in a different venue. There are many ways to buy coins. Nothing beats working with a dealer you trust!
So this afternoon I called and was told by Brian that Lot 558 was sold to a floor bidder. He went on to explain that he owns a "duty" to the people that fly in for his auctions, pay airfare, hotel and food. If you can win through Ebay great, but if not the preference goes to the floor bidder and that's just too bad. So with a tie, the floor bidder will always win.
I told him I understood his position, but this wasn't a tie, my bid was 33% more than the floor bidder. Also really isn't his fiduciary "duty" to the consignor and not the floor bidders????? Shouldn't he entertain my offer since while it might not be in the best interest of the floor bidder, it was a better deal for the consignor??? He then hung up on me without really saying anything.
I think your solution to not consign with Goldberg is very reasonable. I have heard more than one collector complain about Goldberg autions. Anyone with an average collector's wallet gets treated with near-contempt. It's too bad, as it is elitist and as you said, it speaks more to their interest in their buyers than consigners.
Hoot
From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman
Thanks everyone for your comments....I must get to photographing goodies for our next auction but I wanted to chime in one last time.
I cant turn back time in what happened I can only apologize and hope that it will never happen again. I can truly say that based on the staff we now have, it wont. TPN if you want us to find you another set you have my email.
Ebay is a very hot topic. If you dont run ebay people get pissed they cant bid. Then on the other hand you use it and it goes down its the auction houses fault. I challenge anyone to tell me when ebay goes down when it will go back up. There is no way of knowing, the first auction we used for ebay live it went down we waited for over 45 minutes for it to come back up. Unreasonable and frustrating. Do you know how many of our bids are won by ebay buyers? On average out of a 3000 lot sale maybe 2-3%. Ebay will never make or break a sale.
As well for bidding we always save you as much money as we can. We will never max your bid out if there is not a underbidder. Bid by phone......no charge email in bids.......no charge FAX bids.........no charge snail mail.........37 cent stamp agent..............2-3% ebay...............20% ebay live.........20% I think the answer is clear
The consignor should only be concerned about the type of buyer there is at a sale and if the auction house can describe, accurately photograph, publish and present his or her collection that will bring the best price for them. This obviously is only the tip of the iceburg but the end result is always the same the most money wins. But, once a lot is sold on the floor it is sold there is no going back to the buyer and saying oh sorry a ebay guy wanted to bid more but couldnt get in can we give it to him for x more than you. Doesnt work that way. There is a reason why the Goldbergs have been in auction business for longer than almost every other firm in the US.
We are looking forward to a new "team" of people working for us. Glenn will be a big part of the new attitude (or I should say lack there of). I hope all will have the opportunity to see the change. Again we respect your opinion and hope that we can make it up to you.
Numismatic Photographer for Superior/Ira & Larry Goldberg since 1990, Photographer of THE TYRANT COLLECTION one of the greatest collection ever formed.
Comments
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same.
<< <i>Tom P., your latest ("LOL") reply to Blueifalcon was extremely rude, not to mention, lame.
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same. >>
Mark F, that's your opinion and considering I think you are a pansy, your opinion doesn't matter to me.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i><< Why fool with E-bay at all in these large auctions? Doesn't E-bay charge an additional 5% fee? All of these companies provide their own websites where you can place a "mail" bid. If the rules of the game are tie bids go to floor bidders (not all firms work this way), then consider bidding one increment higher than you would ordinarily. >> >>
I don't know if the topic has been kicked around here but it certainly has in the paper currency forum. It has been noticed by many bidders how uncanny it is that whenever they place a maximum bid with certain auction companies that if they win the bid it is ALWAYS at the MAXIMUM. I noticed that myself and have since decided to either pay an agent or bid live online. Think about it, some of these companies own a lot of what they auction. If you send in a "mail bid" at 2000 and the only other bids come up to 1500, do you really think they are going to sell it to you at 1600 when you have already commited to paying 2000?
I remember one auction company that even told me that if you sent in a max bid and the other bids were not as high as the low estimate that you would be sold the lot at THE LOW ESTIMATE not the opening bid even if you were the only bidder.
The auction companies need to be an impartial third party in order to be honestly run. When they are buying and selling in thier own auctions the potential for dishonest and unethical dealing in grading and bid manipulation is overwhelming.
<< <i>When they are buying and selling in thier own auctions the potential for dishonest and unethical dealing in grading and bid manipulation is overwhelming. >>
Seems like its just another area that needs to be cleaned up within this hobby. Under no circumstances should an auction house sell their own material along side that of a consignor. A completely seperate auction of house coins would be fine, but as soon as you place a coin into competition vs. your client, you have breeched your fidciuary duty to your client.
It just amazes me what people in this hobby put up with as "business as usual."
Sad.....very sad.
TPN
reminds me of this thread and how it sometimes goes the other way
hit 'bid now'
Tom P is very rude. His posts are worthless and he adds nothing but rudeness and moronism (new word, just for him) to the forums (at least, that I have seen in the last number of months). He likes to bash others and bash the government and the way the US is but adds nothing constructive.
My guess is that Blueifalcon's first name may be "Tom"......from the way he replied in the post that "mrearlygold" is mouthing off about.
Blueifalcon....don't let the morons like "mrearlygold", who figure they are elite to the world, bother you hear. Better to ignore the lame like that. There is a lot of knowledge on these forums....just gotta go through the chafe (sic?) to get to it. As for paying so you can get to this site....I am guessing you mean you joined the Collector's Club or something? The site is actually free and you don't need to be a member.
You will see some anti-slab bigots here and I really doubt they would pay to post or even read here, but they do contribute valuable knowledge at times.
You will see some anti-modern bigots as well, but, again, they will contribute valuable knowledge at times as well.
Back to the point of the thread.......
Anyone got the proverbial "batphone" to the goldberg's (even though they must be very busy this week
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i> in this hobby >>
The problem here is that some of us consider this a hobby while to others it is a con game to clean the fish. Unfortunately those with the power to clean up this mess and set standards are usually those who are making the most from the status quo.
If you want to bid via E-Bay and the terms of the auction are silent in this matter, you are taking your chances. If these terms are unclear, it is your obligation to get them clarified before you bid. No one is looking out for you; that's your job.
I don't bid in some auctions because according to their terms, there are no returns on slabbed material, even if you are not viewing these lots. To me, this is not acceptable, hence, I don't bid.
It isn't really all that complicated.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
As an aside, I bid on a lot in the auction via Ebay. This is my first for Goldberg. I received an email that I had won the lot and the price realized supports that assessment. I have emailed them, but have yet to receive a reply. Perhaps I will after the auction closes today.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
<< <i>I would have thought the "fair" thing to do and the action most in the interest of their consignor would be to contact the floor bidder -- if the coin hadn't been picked up yet, and tell him -- we have a bid @ $200 that was not entered because of Ebay problems, would you like to match that bid? >>
<< <i> I think your remedy for the situation sounds reasonable to me. >>
Until you look at it from the floor bidders point of view. He bids, has the lot hammered down to him, then a day or two later he gets contacted and is in effect told "Hey, pay us close to twice what you won the lot for or you can't have it."
Russ is right though, if the eBay connection went down the Goldbergs would have no way to know what the high proxy is and they would have to operate under the assumption that the proxy had been reached.
The problem seems to be that the eBay connection is unstable or gets overloaded and goes down frequently. The auction can't stop and wait for it to get fixed so they have to proceed without it.
<< <i>The real bottom line of this is that Ebay live auctions blow. >>
I had a similar problem with a B&M auction. Use the extra 5% that ebay charges to have a personal rep, if possible.
<< <i>He went on to explain that he owns a "duty" to the people that fly in for his auctions, pay airfare, hotel and food. >>
How in the hell does Goldberg know the floor bidder paid for airfare, hotel and food? Last time I checked, Long Beach and the surrounding area had a VERY healthy population. Isn't it possible that the floor bidder lives up the street and simply took a strole down to the auction house during his lunch break?
Furthermore, what does having to buy food have to do with selling a coin. Do people living outside of the greater Long Beach area live via photosynthesis?
All this time, I've been giving Burger King, KFC, and McDonald's my hard earned money when all I had to do was stand in the parking lot and absorb some rays.
Geez! I'm such an idiot!
<< <i>
<< <i>Tom P., your latest ("LOL") reply to Blueifalcon was extremely rude, not to mention, lame.
You asked a question of him (actually you accused him of something) and he had the courtesy to take the time to post a thoughtful reply.You should try doing the same. >>
Mark F, that's your opinion and considering I think you are a pansy, your opinion doesn't matter to me. >>
With unprofessional comments like that, I wonder how you stay in the coin business. I don't see calling competitors "pansies" as being a very effective marketing strategy!
i had troble with the live ebay auction.i will not bid on ebay live anymore.as the goldberg auctions. i have never had any kind of trobles there.there site dose not have everthing work out real good yet.it not real user friendly.
i just got a real nice gold coin there.see the coin here --http://www.goldbergauctions.com/cgi-bin/viewlot.pl?site=1&sale=28&lot=2381
littlejohn
<< <i>With unprofessional comments like that, I wonder how you stay in the coin business. >>
-Maybe he graduated from the Bob Green school of business.
<< <i>
<< <i>With unprofessional comments like that, I wonder how you stay in the coin business. >>
-Maybe he graduated from the Bob Green school of business. >>
We should all have 1 10/th as much money as Bob Green has and we could all retire.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
First of all the person in question here is no longer with the company and things will dramatically improve here at the Goldbergs. I think you all will welcome our new employee Glenn Onishi. This will tell you a few things for you who know. As far as the way you were treated TonedPeaceNut please accept my apology. Although I have no circumstances behind this instance there is no reason why you were ever hung up on. This should have been dealt with in a much more mature and professional fashion. But please understand something when we have over 6000 bids placed during a sale there maybe some overlooked. As well after a auction we have every person that has bid on ebay call us asking for there prices. You should understand that calling the day after a sale is not a real good time to call and start asking a bunch of questions that has to do with an ebay issue. Like calling the IRS on April 16th. See my point things have to get entered into the systems properly and correctly, it doesnt happen by itself. Is all I can say is that I hope that you bid with us in the future but if you dont happy collecting and understand this could have happened at any auction firm in the world and it will happen again.
Let me answer a key question. What is our plan if ebay goes down? If ebay goes down there is no way for us to plan for it. Beacuse it is a live auction the floor bidder will be the only bidders. Simply put if ebay goes down the issue should be with ebay not us. Everyone needs to realize that eBay has problems, if you want to bid live or otherwise you take the risk. Ebay went down many times during our last sale. Hense we may not offer ebay live bidding to US Coin collectors in future sales it is simple to disruptive and is unfare to the floor bidders. We will still offer it to our overseas bidders though. Lets go over how ebay works...
Bidder enters in his bids and ebay bids for him via proxy bidding. The bid is stored in ebays computers and then sent to us DURING the auction, as a seller you do not know what the high bid is. When the auction is taking place there is a control module that allows us to either accept the bid or not. As well control where the bidding increments are to the eBay livebidder. The module controls incoming bids from ebay as well. We only see a incremental price and the bidder user ID. We have no way of knowing where the persons high bid is. If for some reason ebay is having problems NO EBAY BIDS ARE RECOGNIZED ebay live or ebay because we have no way of knowing who bids. Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot. We cant wait for Ebay to come back online. Because of the amount of auctions taking place we all have to work together to make sure we schedule our auction to allow bidders to bid in all the sales. This holds true to every auction firm that uses ebay live we are no exception.
How to resolve the ebay situation
Register to bid on our website, if you have bid with us in the past you should be under normal circumstances "approved". You will pay 5% less commission and will be assured of getting your bid in. You wont be able to watch and bid "live" but this will be changing in due time. There is no perfect auction house out there, not one.
If you want to reply to me directly or if you have any question feel free to contact me directly
lyle@goldbergcoins.com
Goldberg's very late attempt at damage control here does not show they value TPN as a customer, and shows very little commitment to get things right. Goldberg certainly will not be seeing any business from me.
Sorry we have lost you as a potential customer. I did respond to a question, most will not give you the time of day. Anyone who knows me and deals with me in this industry know that I bend over backward for everyone that I deal with. And yes, many on this board. And even a few I dont even know.
I hate it when people bash us that have never even done business with us before. There are two sides to every story.
First, thanks for taking the time to search through and find this thread. I'm pleased someone alerted your office to it. And thanks for being quite honest in your post and apology
Mistakes happen to everyone. Its not the mistake, its how a person/company reacts to it and neutralizes its effect that counts.
I understand that your office has no control over Ebay, however, if you offer it, you must live by it and deal with the outtages, most are extremely brief. In my case the Ebay Live connection was restored within 4 minutes. Otherwise, it appears that offering Ebay Live is only for your benefit and not that of your customers.
By dropping the Ebay Live option is, in my opinion, myopic. If I were a consignor I would want to consign my coins to an auction company that has the greatest exposure. Ebay Live just provides more possible bidders than just the floor. And in regards to the lot I bid on -- it certainly would have provided the consignor with a much larger profit than the winning floor bid, if you merely would have waited for the connection to restablish. Legally speaking, you have a fiduciary duty to your consignors, not your floor bidders. By not waiting for the connection to reestablish, your breached your duty. That's why I stated to "becareful if you are going to consign to the Goldbergs." Consignors have to come first.
Here's your own statement -- Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot.
No where mentioned was the consignor. In your sentence you mention the concerns of Goldberg first. Consignor, buyer and then Goldberg.
What was most disconcerning to me was the way I was treated. Whether I call the next day or even the next hour, to hang up abruptly on a customer is inexcusable. I don't care if my office was on fire, I wouldn't hang up on one of my clients. Further, I wouldn't lie to my client in order to cover my mistake. If you are understaffed, again that is not my problem. Hire someone to handle the calls that you are aware that you'll receive after an auction.
Lastly, no one ever called to state an apology. You have my bidder #, when he hung up on me he was aware of my name. No effort was ever put forth to rectify the situation.
A simple, let us find you a similar set at a good price would have sufficed.
There are so many ways to do things wrong, your office manage to hit most of them.
I certainly won't consign and may not buy again from Goldberg. And I will certainly inform anyone who will listen of my situation.
TPN
After what I've read here, I know who it won't be.
Les
I have no problem with waiting a few minutes for things to get going again. But, at some (reasonable/realistic) point, you should resume the auction, or risk alienating other (non-ebay) bidders and end up hurting bidders and consignors in a different way.
I also think we need to keep in mind that not everyone visits this forum, and that for a number of legitimate reasons they can't always be expected to reply to our posts, just because we think (or know) they should.
Furthermore, bids placed on eBay PRIOR to the live auction are not submitted to the auction house as mail bids. Rather, they are essentially proxy bids instructing eBay live to execute bids for you during the live auction. Thus, if the eBay Live technology fails during the actual floor sale, your PRIOR bid will never get executed.
If you want to ensure that your cid is executed, you must either: (1) attend the floor sale and bid on your own behalf, either in person or by phone; (2) engage a representative to bid at the floor sale for you (most auction regulars will do this for 2-5% of hammer depending on the value of the coin); or (3) leave your bid with the auction house prior to the session. Option (3) can be done by faxing, mailing, or e-mailing bids, or leaving them at the table before the session. By the way, even telephone bidding has its risks. Sometimes a cell phone doesn't work, or someone gets your number wrong, and they fail to get you on the phone in time.
You might ask, why would anyone use an eBay proxy bid, when you can just leave your mail bid with the auction house (and pay 5% less by doing so). That's right, the eBay buyer's fee is 20%, whereas the regular buyer's fee is 15%. So why would anyone do this? Obviously it is because there is a certain amount of distrust of the auction houses' handling of book bids. The feeling is that mail bids will automatically be maxed out. But even if they are, the extra 5% at eBay will probably have the same effect.
In any case, I am tired of hearing about people complaining about getting screwed via eBay Live. It is NOT the auction house's responsibility. YOU chose to use the eBay mechanism, which carries certain costs (5%), certain risks (ris of connection failure), certain benefits (you don't have to pay a representative or travel to the floor sale), and certain gains (nobody can max you out). That was your choice. Deal with it !!!!!!!
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Let's be realistic. This is a 1958 double mint set. Yes the consignor didn't get the full money that he could have. You are also assuming that the floor bidder would have continued bidding up to your $200. Maybe you would have been the next higher bidder and it would have stopped at $150.
TPN, your comment:
<< <i>Here's your own statement -- Is is bad for us because we lose money on bids not received and as well as a buyer you dont get your lot.
No where mentioned was the consignor. In your sentence you mention the concerns of Goldberg first. Consignor, buyer and then Goldberg. >>
If I was an auction house, I would also say "we" as in the auction house and the consignor.
The whole notion of asking Goldberg to wait for eBay to come back up is crazy. I'm not sure that Goldberg would even know if eBay went down. Also, what limits are you going to set on time? eBay computers go down for 12 hours. Should the auction house wait until the next day to hold the auction? All the floor bidders may have other plans and not be able to attend. THEN where would the consignor be? Hoping that the eBay Live bidders bring "strong" money?
GOLDBERG NOT CALLING BACK OR ANSWERING E-MAIL IS NOT RIGHT.
I'M BOYCOTTING TELETRADE FOR THE SAME REASONS.
CALLED TWICE AND E-MAILED ONCE TO GET A SITUATION TAKEN CARE OF, BUT I GUESS 18+ YEARS OF BUSINESS AT MAYBE $50,000 PER YEAR DOESN'T PUT ME ON THE CALL BACK OR RETURN E-MAIL LIST.
YOU'D THINK THEY WOULD CALL YOU BACK TO GET THE FACTS AND SQUARE AWAY WITH SUCH A LONG TIME CUSTOMER, BUT THEN AGAIN.....
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
1. Using EBay Live is often unreliable, costs more and may not always place one's bids.
2. It is to my advantage to attend floor sessions
3. If I cannot attend, then placing a bid through an agent is more worthwhile than paying an extra 5% to EBay
4. The floor session should not be delayed more than a couple moments for EBay problems
5. TPN was treated rudely and in an unprofessional manner.
I attend every Goldberg Sale and spend a fair amount of money in each of their auctions. I agree their floor sessions should not be delayed for EBay problems. I really don't mind waiting a moment or two for EBay hiccups, and from what I've observed, the Goldbergs wait a moment for final bids from EBay before closing a lot. So, the system is far from being seamless and perfect, and a better interface is needed.
However, I think the ultimate problem is one of trust. Here's why:
-Trust is certainly not engendered the way TPN was treated. They could have simply found him another mint set.
-If I had to pay more for a lot, because the auction house said a last minute bid was placed from Ebay, that would sound fishy to me. I would feel misled and let it go, which is a lack of trust in the veracity of the final bid. I would have no way of verifying the truth of the last minute bid.
-Many of us have had bad experiences at auction, so we mistrust the book bids.
-I have left written bids with the Goldbergs on several occassions, and they have not only honored them, but have won several lots below my max bid. So, they are one of the few auction houses I trust with executed bids. Again, a matter of trust.
-Many of you feel you would not get the highest prices for your consignment based on what has been said here. This is a huge matter of trust!
I think the addition of Glen Onishi to the Goldberg staff is going to improve the efficiency of their operation and their customer service. While I will miss doing business with him at Superior, I look forward to working with him at the Goldbergs. I hope he works to improve the relationship with all their customers, large and small. However, the auction situation is always the same. If you're going to bid, then figure out the most effective manner in which to execute that bid, and follow it. If you do not trust an auction house, then buy your coins in a different venue. There are many ways to buy coins. Nothing beats working with a dealer you trust!
<< <i>It is NOT the auction house's responsibility. YOU chose to use the eBay mechanism, >>
Is it not the Goldberg's choice to use the ebay live system as well?
So this afternoon I called and was told by Brian that Lot 558 was sold to a floor bidder. He went on to explain that he owns a "duty" to the people that fly in for his auctions, pay airfare, hotel and food. If you can win through Ebay great, but if not the preference goes to the floor bidder and that's just too bad. So with a tie, the floor bidder will always win.
I told him I understood his position, but this wasn't a tie, my bid was 33% more than the floor bidder. Also really isn't his fiduciary "duty" to the consignor and not the floor bidders????? Shouldn't he entertain my offer since while it might not be in the best interest of the floor bidder, it was a better deal for the consignor??? He then hung up on me without really saying anything.
I think your solution to not consign with Goldberg is very reasonable. I have heard more than one collector complain about Goldberg autions. Anyone with an average collector's wallet gets treated with near-contempt. It's too bad, as it is elitist and as you said, it speaks more to their interest in their buyers than consigners.
Hoot
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
I cant turn back time in what happened I can only apologize and hope that it will never happen again. I can truly say that based on the staff we now have, it wont. TPN if you want us to find you another set you have my email.
Ebay is a very hot topic. If you dont run ebay people get pissed they cant bid. Then on the other hand you use it and it goes down its the auction houses fault. I challenge anyone to tell me when ebay goes down when it will go back up. There is no way of knowing, the first auction we used for ebay live it went down we waited for over 45 minutes for it to come back up. Unreasonable and frustrating. Do you know how many of our bids are won by ebay buyers? On average out of a 3000 lot sale maybe 2-3%. Ebay will never make or break a sale.
As well for bidding we always save you as much money as we can. We will never max your bid out if there is not a underbidder.
Bid by phone......no charge
email in bids.......no charge
FAX bids.........no charge
snail mail.........37 cent stamp
agent..............2-3%
ebay...............20%
ebay live.........20%
I think the answer is clear
The consignor should only be concerned about the type of buyer there is at a sale and if the auction house can describe, accurately photograph, publish and present his or her collection that will bring the best price for them. This obviously is only the tip of the iceburg but the end result is always the same the most money wins. But, once a lot is sold on the floor it is sold there is no going back to the buyer and saying oh sorry a ebay guy wanted to bid more but couldnt get in can we give it to him for x more than you. Doesnt work that way. There is a reason why the Goldbergs have been in auction business for longer than almost every other firm in the US.
We are looking forward to a new "team" of people working for us. Glenn will be a big part of the new attitude (or I should say lack there of). I hope all will have the opportunity to see the change. Again we respect your opinion and hope that we can make it up to you.
Jerry
<< <i>Remove eBay from your auctions.
Jerry >>
I will second that.