WARNING -- Becareful if you consign to Goldberg Auctions!!!!!

TonedPeaceNut

Here's a situation that I'm dealing with and being fair to Goldberg Auctions I provided them an opportunity to correct the situation before I decided to post this warning here. Matter of fact Brian hung up on me twice -- quite rudely I might add. The first time I called back since I thought it was only fair since he might have missed understood my position.

Here's the quick summary. I placed 3 bids via Ebay absentee the morning of Goldberg's auction on Sunday -- Lot 558 is the subject of this dispute. All 3 bids were accepted by Ebay, 2 of the bids on early lots were executed. I didn't win those lots, being outbid on the floor. The 3rd bid was $200 for Lot 558, a 1958 double mint set with really nice toning.

As I am watching the auction via Ebay Live, it goes down before Lot 558 and doesn't come back for several minutes, after my lot had already closed. I tried to check what the closing price was via Ebay -- no success. So I waited for Monday morning and called Goldberg's office and was told it closed for $138.00. I assumed I had won the lot. I called last night around 5pm and ask for my total invoice so I could pay and arrange to pick up the coins.

I was told the lot went to a floor bidder and I didn't win. I informed the person answering the phone as to my bid, but they didn't want to hear it and told me to leave a message for Brian. So I did and sent him an email as well explaining my position and my bid. I ask for a return phone call last night. No such luck. Matter of fact no call today and no return email.

So this afternoon I called and was told by Brian that Lot 558 was sold to a floor bidder. He went on to explain that he owns a "duty" to the people that fly in for his auctions, pay airfare, hotel and food. If you can win through Ebay great, but if not the preference goes to the floor bidder and that's just too bad. So with a tie, the floor bidder will always win.

I told him I understood his position, but this wasn't a tie, my bid was 33% more than the floor bidder. Also really isn't his fiduciary "duty" to the consignor and not the floor bidders????? Shouldn't he entertain my offer since while it might not be in the best interest of the floor bidder, it was a better deal for the consignor??? He then hung up on me without really saying anything.

So I called back, and then he told me -- his website was wrong and the real closing price was $250.00, then he corrected himself again and said it sold for $190. Which is still lower than my bid. He also said he was sure that the consignor was fine with losing 33% it since it was a "sold" lot.

While I'm disappointed that I didn't win, it isn't the only 1958 Mint Set with toning I'm ever going to find. So that isn't an issue.

The real issue I have is shouldn't Goldberg have some type of plan for situations when Ebay goes down? What should it be? By the way, he was well aware of when Ebay went down.

I would have thought the "fair" thing to do and the action most in the interest of their consignor would be to contact the floor bidder -- if the coin hadn't been picked up yet, and tell him -- we have a bid @ $200 that was not entered because of Ebay problems, would you like to match that bid? And if so the floor bidder wins the lot, if not then the coin(s) go the the Ebay bidder.

I've been to Goldberg Auctions and watched them "reopen" lots so dealers could bid on something they may have missed. So it isn't that reopening a lot is out of the question.

Without question, I will not consign coins ever to Goldberg. In my opinion, I felt as though I were told by Brian that Goldberg was more concerned with the floor bidders, ie., dealers, then with anyone else. And I'm seriously thinking about never buying through their auction again.

Any thoughts?


TPN

nwcs

Hmmm. food for thought and I think your remedy for the situation sounds reasonable to me.

Russ

The fundamental question is - Does Goldberg have any way to verify your bid if eBay did not transmit it? If the answer is no, than they've taken the only course of action that is logically sound.

Russ, NCNE

fivecents

TPN....I might not have the facts right, but ebay shutting down is not the Goldbergs fault. Now if they are playing with the auction numbers that would be a different story. Wouldn't ebay have a record of the true closing amount of that auction?

RBinTex

Don't know all your facts (on both sides) but I was high bidder (from a bid placed the day before actual auction) for a superior lot that got a tie bid from a floor bidder & I've not only not been notified I won it but the things have vanished from eBay.

WaterSport

Win, tie or lose, floor bidders win, and thats the life of Ebay live auctions. Sorry, it sucks, I know, I have been there. But you do not have to play by their rules. You have an option. I have only won once and have great reservation about doing it, especially when it takes a month to get your coin, let alone two weeks for an invoice. Hey, I work for the Goverment and this is piss poor private buisness and customer service at its best.

WS

RYK

I had a similar experience with Scotsman auctions last summer, but instead of an ebay bid, I left a written bid for them to execute for me. It was a Type I $20. I bid $1500. The winning bid was indicated at $1300. I assumed that I won. They never executed my bid. The consigner, unknowingly, left some money on the table, and I was aggravated over the whole business.

Six months later, I am no longer aggravated. The coin was "product", and I can easily get a similar one if I want to. I will never deal with Scotsman again, as a buyer or seller.

CardsFan

I've trouble with live e-bay auctions also. I never followed up on it with e-bay because I wasn't too worried about it, but my absentee bid was well higher than the closing price and I didn't win. Not sure why, I confirmed the bid and it showed me as the high bidder a day before the auction but by time the auction ended there was no record of my bid even though winning bid was $80 less then my max.

TonedPeaceNut

<< <i>Does Goldberg have any way to verify your bid if eBay did not transmit it? If the answer is no, than they've taken the only course of action that is logically sound. >>



The answer is yes, I can verify my bid thru Ebay. I am local to Goldberg and could and would have actually traveled to their offices to confirm my bid, if they have asked in order to resolve this issue. That wasn't even discussed. And they know where I live -- BTW.

Though the real issue isn't whether I won or lost. Sure it was a nice set and would have liked to own it, but it won't be the last 1958 toned Mint Set I can buy.

The heart of the issue was that I was told that they own a "duty" -- his words -- to those bidders that spend money coming to his auction. My point is that -- I would think the "duty" is really owed to those that consign coins to Goldberg. Auction houses all work under a theory of fiduciary duty -- defined as a duty to act for someone's else's benefit while subordinating one's personal interests to that of the other person. It is one of the highest standards implied by law.


TPN

mrearlygold

Hanging up on someone is pretty much the termination of any future business wouldn't you say?

It is in my book and I wouldn't care who it is.


Tom

Sequitur

So I called back, and then he told me -- his website was wrong and the real closing price was $250.00, then he corrected himself again and said it sold for $190. Which is still lower than my bid. He also said he was sure that the consignor was fine with losing 33% it since it was a "sold" lot.

Sounds like the "say anything" defense. And if I was the consignor and this had been a four or five-figure coin, I'd say sure, I'm fine with your having just thrown away 33% of my money, because that's going to be made up when I haul your f-ing arse to court for breaching your fiduciary duty to me, your real client.

CarlWohlforth

I wonder if eBay went down or if it was just your connection to eBay?

I entered an absentee bid on eBay today right before the auction started. I was wondering if someone from eBay would sit at the auction and bid according to my max bid or would just bid my max or what? I am not sure of the mechanics here.

In my case the coin in question came up, there were no bids for a long time (compared to other lots) then there was one floor bid that was quite a bit higher than my bid. This was all I could see by watching eBay Live.

Anyway I know of a consignor to the Goldberg auctions who didn't place a reserve then when he tried to fix it before the auction he thought he succeeded. Later the coin sold for way less than his reserve so it turns out he never did get it fixed. So I was already concerened with the company.

TonedPeaceNut

I'm not sure if this was a big dollar consignment if it would have been handled the same way. Goldberg also has an interest in making money and I'm sure if my bid was $10,000 more than the next highest, a $2000 profit for them might not have been ignored.

Too be fair, I'm sure its a hassle for them to deal with this situation and for the money they would have made, probably not worth it. There's only a $19.30 difference in it for them to accept my bid over that of the floor bidder.

Though the way it was handled was unprofessional in my opinion.


TPN

CarlWohlforth

I think there would be no problems if you are there bidding on the floor. It seems the eBay Live thing just complicates the situation. Too bad too, because I would like to know I was getting a fair shake while biddign from afar.

Myqqy

I don't follow the logic that an auction company's duty is to floor bidders- it's to get the highest possible amount for the people that have consigned the material. And hanging up on people in business situations is completely unprofessional and unnecessary.....

DennisH

Thanks for this information; it's helpful when deciding where to take one's business.

pharmer

Everytime I bid on an ebay live auction, problems occur. It frequently freezes immediately, the screen just sits there, and I have to close and open the prgram again, sign in as I go. Of course the lot is long gone. There are many bugs in this setup, including the one littlejohn mentioned a while back where he hit the bid button at one amount and the delay caused the bid to register at a very much higher amount.

WaterSport

Could it be that since you are on the floor, they will have a chcek in hand before you leave the door, while if you bid online, it may take a couple of days for them to secure a payment?

WS

tradedollarnut

No

clackamas

I have had the same thing happen with Goldbergs. Have not bid on an item since.

ms70

A lot of dealers are getting a little too comfy in this market. Some of them need a good spanking in the wallet.

100proof1957

Never bid on a Goldberg auction,but after reading this i wont have to worry bout it !

ColonialCoinUnion

I must admit, I am curious to see if the Batphone is ringing over at Suite 350.

TonedPeaceNut

<< <i>I must admit, I am curious to see if the Batphone is ringing over at Suite 350. >>



Well the phone isn't ringing over here. They have my cell phone number and email addy -- nothing so far.


TPN

mrearlygold

Craig, ANR is a big step up from most of them.

IMHO of course!

Tom

Lakesammman

Have been sitting on the floor many times when the "net" goes down. It's very frustrating to be sitting there. From my perspective, the auction should go on. Ebay, as your agent (earning 5% for doing so), missed the opportunity to bid in a timely fashion. The auctioneer shouldn't reopen the bid for them or anyone else after the lot closes. You might have a better case with Ebay than Goldberg.

Blackhawk

I had a different situation with the Goldbergs about 1½ yrs. ago. I received some advertising from them about consigning for an upcoming sale. I called and all were busy at the time, but later one of the brothers called me back. I told him what I had to consign...maybe $1500-2000 worth and he said that the fee would be 5%, which was OK by me. He told me to include a note with the coins saying that he said 5%. About a week after I posted the coins, I get a call from some other guy over there saying that they just couldn't do it for 5% and if I wanted my coins in the sale it would be 10%, at which time I told him to send them back. While it seemed like bait and switch to me, it was more difficult to imagine a business that would not stand by something that one of it's owners quoted. I don't hold any hard feelings, but sure don't think that it's any way to run a business.

blueifalcon

Make a mental note Tom...Goldbergs=Bad...Got it

mrearlygold

<< <i>Make a mental note Tom...Goldbergs=Bad...Got it >>







And what might your name be Mr blueifalcon ?

Or are you one of those guys who talks about others while hiding behind a "screen name" ?


Inquiring minds would like to know.

Bochiman

TPN,

Please do keep us updated if this has further "actions"....quite interesting to read. I would also imagine that someone would have "narked" on this thread by now and would hope that the other party would feel free to join us for their side of things....though, not sure how it will help if they are that rude.

And, once again, mrearlygold doesn't really add anything to a thread other than loudmouthing and postcount.

Now, on the thought of the thread in discussion........has ANYONE had a positive experience with the goldberg auctions?
They had some coins on ebay recently, for their "live" auctions, that I was very very very tempted to bid on. But, sorry, they weren't irreplaceable and I am not going to risk going through the hassles that I have heard about already.

Almost seems like the only way to have positive experiences at auctions is to be there in person or via live proxy.

Neptune

very unethical. I went to an auction the other nite - not coins - and the auctioneer bid and won one of the items - WHILE he was auctioning it off. Another time, one of the workers tried to outbid me on an item, and then quit once price got higher. I think both of those instances were unethical - if not illegal. Does anyone know? There are laws that regulate auctions, and there is a number you can call to report them. After hearing about all these problems, I will stay away for the hassle myself. Don't need the stress.

NoGvmnt

I just have to wonder if goldbergs fiduciary duty to his floor bidders at the possible/probable expense of his consigners is specifically spelled out in the consigners contract.

Jim

UncleWiggly

<< <i>Craig, ANR is a big step up from most of them.

IMHO of course!

Tom >>



I have never heard or read anything negative about ANR auctions. As for this Goldberg Deal. I wouldn't lock the door, but I would slam it pretty tight. I don't plan to use them for anything for this simple reason. TonedPeaceNut believes he is in the right, made a phone call to the Goldberg auction office to find out what happened, and then got hung up on. I consign to Superior and have had no problems.


Jerry

coynclecter

<< <i> Craig, ANR is a big step up from most of them. >>



excuse me??? I was bidding in thier auction a few months back when thier OWN computer bidding system went down twice, I put in a couple of bids just before it went down again. They didn't even stop the auction but continued, when thier system came back up they had gone 50 lots past my bids and had listed me as the winner on one. When I called the next day they said I was NOT the winner, that has sold to a floor bidder. It was higher than my bid but lower than I would have paid if I had been able to bid live. I'll bet the consignor never knew they went on with the auction even when thier computer bidding went down. BTW the "frog run" fractional collection sold at 4800, abouit 700 less than I was prepared to pay.

mrearlygold

<< <i>

<< <i> Craig, ANR is a big step up from most of them. >>



excuse me??? I was bidding in thier auction a few months back when thier OWN computer bidding system went down twice, I put in a couple of bids just before it went down again. They didn't even stop the auction but continued, when thier system came back up they had gone 50 lots past my bids and had listed me as the winner on one. When I called the next day they said I was NOT the winner, that has sold to a floor bidder. It was higher than my bid but lower than I would have paid if I had been able to bid live. I'll bet the consignor never knew they went on with the auction even when thier computer bidding went down. BTW the "frog run" fractional collection sold at 4800, abouit 700 less than I was prepared to pay. >>








Yeh, life must suck huh?

coinvet

Hanging up on someone is pretty much the termination of any future business wouldn't you say?

It is in my book and I wouldn't care who it is.

You would think so....

I have never had any problem with the Goldbergs but on more than one occaision I have seen David being rude to employees and bidders. That was back in 2001 and I have never bid or consigned with them and never will.

He berated one of his older employees one time in front of lot viewers so badly I felt embarassed for everyone there. There has to be something wrong with the guy to be always on the rag. No one should have to work in such an environment.

Plenty of other class firms to deal with, especially ANR.

coynclecter

<< <i>Yeh, life must suck huh? >>



It sucks thinking you won a nice lot at a bargain price only to find you weren't even in the race. If you find another autographed Sherman/Grant note for sale anytime in the next year I'd sure be happy to know about it.

Actually life is great for me and I have an agent now so my last experience was much nicer.

To the credit of ANR, at least they listened to me and no one hung up on me.

mrearlygold

Ouch that does suck and I'm sorry if I seemed to be ready to jump on you. It appeared that you weren't willing to look at the big picture. I've sent a couple million dollars of mine and clients coins over to ANR in the last year and am much more pleased with the results than anyone.

Far as computers go, it's the nature of the beast. You made the right move in having someone personally represent you on the floor.

Tom

Elcontador

One thing that has not been addressed is the terms of the auction. Do they say anything re E-Bay bids? If they accept E-Bay bids, something should be stated about them.

All auction houses will state who gets the coin in the event of a tie between a mail / internet bidder and a floor bidder in their terms of auction. What are the Goldberg's terms, and did they honor them? The OP implies that they did not honor them, however, this is a function of the E-Bay bid matter.

I know at ANR, if there is a tie between a floor bidder and a non-present bidder, whomever put in the bid first gets the coin. I was in this situation and they mistakenly awarded the coin to the floor bidder. They then tried to get the coin back from the guy, and when he wouldn't return it, they wrote me a sincere letter of apology and sent me a book of my choice to try and make things right. They made an honest error and a good faith gesture, and although I would have rather had the coin (I have not seen one of these coins available since said auction several years ago), they made a good faith attempt to correct the situation, and I've put that behind me.

TonedPeaceNut

One of my points of this thread was to see if we, as a group of collectors, dealers, hobbyists, could come up with a solution to the problem I faced. I'm sure its not only a Goldberg problem, but a problem for all of the auction houses that use Ebay or Ebay Live. I didn't intend this to be a "lets bash the Goldbergs" thread. Though, it appears that I'm not the only one that didn't receive satisfactory customer service.

From my experiences as well as coynclecter's it appears that because of Ebay/auction company computer problems, money is being left on the table on at some of these auctions for the consignors. Further, why should I as a collector feel as though I either had to travel to the auction in order to get a fair shake or in the alternative, try to find someone to represent my interests at the auction -- if online bidding is offered by the auction house and Ebay.

Should auctions not be available via Ebay or Ebay Live until these problems are fixed? Or should the auction house's have a policy implemented to take into consideration failures with Ebay/Ebay Live to allow those bidders a chance instead of showing a clear favoritism to floor bidders?


TPN

gamer1958

Sounds to me like they just did not care about the eBAY part of this auction--if they were serious about Internet bidding, they would have done something like Heritage or David Lawrence, et al, run the bids from their own web page. Perhaps, they do not have the resources to do so (maybe they need to hire someone--opportunity???). Personally, I wrote them three times after filling out their on-line bidder registration and never received a response. Also had trouble registering for the eBAY "live" auctions, but this company was not very responsive. The solution for me was to take my (paltry) business elsewhere...a shame, as they did have some really nice coins in the auction (the pictures were pretty, anyway).

I feel your frustration TPN, but as you point out, maybe (hopefully, probably) you'll find a better set. Cheers~

UncleWiggly

How are you going to organize the WE idea? Live eBay bidding for an auction that isn't on eBay is a bunch of bunk. In your case, the bunch of bunk turned the Goldberg auction into a bunch of bunk for you. The solution is easy. Don't use them. The WE idea to coming up with a solution isn't a bad idea but is time consuming. Bad mouthing the Goldberg auctions and live eBay bidding right here in the open for even lurkers to see gets immediate attention and sometimes very quick solutions. And there isn't anything wrong with that. Even if the Goldberg people realize it or not, this is very beneficial to them also.



Jerry

GOLDSAINT

TPN,

It is curious that I had all most the same situation.
Here is my story,
Several months ago I bid on their website on an 1815/2 Bust half in AU. The price being several thousand dollars. I was top bidder by over $300 dollars. When I sent an email to pay, I was told that the coin went to a floor bidder. After several emails I was told that the floor bidder would give the coin up but it would cost me about $400 more!
Since the coin was still priced at about retail, and I needed it for my Registry set, I agreed, paid, and the coin was ship to me. I got the same BS story about floor bidders, and have always wondered if there was indeed a floor bidder, or if I was just being manipulated to a higher price. I have not, and will not, bid on any more of their auctions.
I have spent many many thousands of dollars with Heritage and never had anything like this happen on any of my auctions.
Personally I have no way of knowing if these guys are just very unscrupulous or are just flaky and sloppy.

blueifalcon

<< <i>

<< <i>Make a mental note Tom...Goldbergs=Bad...Got it >>







And what might your name be Mr blueifalcon ?

Or are you one of those guys who talks about others while hiding behind a "screen name" ?


Inquiring minds would like to know. >>

gemtone65

Why fool with E-bay at all in these large auctions? Doesn't E-bay charge an additional 5% fee? All of these companies provide their own websites where you can place a "mail" bid. If the rules of the game are tie bids go to floor bidders (not all firms work this way), then consider bidding one increment higher than you would ordinarily.

RotatedRainbows

<< <i>Why fool with E-bay at all in these large auctions? Doesn't E-bay charge an additional 5% fee? All of these companies provide their own websites where you can place a "mail" bid. If the rules of the game are tie bids go to floor bidders (not all firms work this way), then consider bidding one increment higher than you would ordinarily. >>

blueifalcon

<< <i>

<< <i>Make a mental note Tom...Goldbergs=Bad...Got it >>







And what might your name be Mr blueifalcon ?

Or are you one of those guys who talks about others while hiding behind a "screen name" ?


Inquiring minds would like to know. >>



Mr. Pilitowski,

I'm so new to this thread I can't even respond properly, as u can see by my previous response. I think I have about 20 threads to account for. Hope this one worked.

To answer u're question, I don't normally provide my personal information to just anyone due to my profession. I gave everyone my first name and assumed that was appropriate. As far as u're insinuation that I may be one of those that talk about others while hiding behind a screen name, are we paronoid or something? I believe almost everyone has a handle they go by. I paid to join this site so that I can communicate with and learn from experts, maybe purchase a few coins. You see, I have only been collecting for about a year and have a lot to learn regarding coin collection. I've learned a lot since I've been here just by reading posts. Heck, I've received help from some of the members regarding VAM's, which are new to me. I hope I've ansered u're inquiring mind...

maddogale

my double Lincolns' worth: ALL auction houses should not be allowed to post so-called "live auctions" on eBay. Period. I get tired of doing searches and having my list ballooned with Heritage or some other auction house's crap. I know that doesn't solve your dilemma, TPN, but perhaps as another solution eBay should do this: have a dedicated section for "live" auctions which do not fall under searches unless called for by say, a title word of some kind. Also, have dedicated phone lines at the auctions for bidders to bid "on the floor" but while viewing progress of the auction via eBay or somewhere else. These jokers make enough money that it could be done and the cost would be covered by their outrageous 15+% "premium". JMO.........

mrearlygold

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Make a mental note Tom...Goldbergs=Bad...Got it >>







And what might your name be Mr blueifalcon ?

Or are you one of those guys who talks about others while hiding behind a "screen name" ?


Inquiring minds would like to know. >>



Mr. Pilitowski,

I'm so new to this thread I can't even respond properly, as u can see by my previous response. I think I have about 20 threads to account for. Hope this one worked.

To answer u're question, I don't normally provide my personal information to just anyone due to my profession. I gave everyone my first name and assumed that was appropriate. As far as u're insinuation that I may be one of those that talk about others while hiding behind a screen name, are we paronoid or something? I believe almost everyone has a handle they go by. I paid to join this site so that I can communicate with and learn from experts, maybe purchase a few coins. You see, I have only been collecting for about a year and have a lot to learn regarding coin collection. I've learned a lot since I've been here just by reading posts. Heck, I've received help from some of the members regarding VAM's, which are new to me. I hope I've ansered u're inquiring mind... >>

pharmer

<< <i>Why fool with E-bay at all in these large auctions? Doesn't E-bay charge an additional 5% fee? All of these companies provide their own websites where you can place a "mail" bid. If the rules of the game are tie bids go to floor bidders (not all firms work this way), then consider bidding one increment higher than you would ordinarily. >>



I, like another poster, registered with the auction company directly from their site. I wanted to avoid the extra 5%, and I had gotten no response from the sign-up process on ebay. After 2 weeks of no response, I emailed the auction house from their site, and never received a response and thus a bidder number. My references are sterling. I ended up bidding on a lot through ebay to see if I had been approved, and the bid was accepted, although I had not been informed that I had been approved. So, in this case, going through the auction house directly did not work. And as mentioned before, the auction crashed for me several times while live on ebay. So there were problems participating in this auction at many points in the process. Being on the floor seems to be the only sure method of participation, so why even have it on ebay?

gemtone65

If you don't get an electronic response to a request to register, you could try calling the auction house. Remember telephones? Regardless, the absence of such an electronic response in these cases doesn't necessarily mean you weren't successfully registered. Some companies inform you only if you're denied.

Further, if E-bay charges 5%, and dealers charge as little as 3% to view lots and bid on them for you, why in the world would anyone pay for E-bay instead of asking a dealer to do this service for you?

My experience in these matters is that the major auctions houses do in fact treat E-bay bidders with contempt. I'm not sure why, but this appears to be the case. So, why pay more for less?