Options
New variety draped bust half dollar 1807 O-115 discovered here, prev. unknown obv. 12 not described
Baley
Posts: 22,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
Originally posted Sept 27th 2003, this coin turned out to be not only a previously undescribed marriage in the draped bust half dollar series, but also an entirely new obverse die,
not known to or described by Biestle, Haseltine, Overton, nor anyone else until now. the differences between this coin and the O-104 are subtle..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an interesting half dollar:
what do you think this coin grades?
Overton variety?
not known to or described by Biestle, Haseltine, Overton, nor anyone else until now. the differences between this coin and the O-104 are subtle..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an interesting half dollar:
what do you think this coin grades?
Overton variety?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
3
Comments
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
VF25 ACG
VF30 NTC
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Edit to add... My wag of O-103 I don't think is correct. O-103 says the serif of Y will be higer than the T. It doesn't appear that way now that I look at the image better.
Edited: check that. O-104, different obv. with level TY, high 7 in date., same rev. B as 103.
don't see the milling lumps he talks about between stars 2 and 3, but also the defect to the left of S he talks about is only just starting. early die state i guess.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Well, given my recent experiences, I'll guess XF-45.
>>
That's why these are recent experiences.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
If it is O.104, they are more scarce than the R.3 rating, not many auction records.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Fine 12
My posts viewed times
since 8/1/6
But hey, if it's a bit scarcer than Overton's R3 rating, I guess i can forgive a few flaws commensurate with the circulated grade. Usually it's the other way around, isn't it? that the coin is a little more common than he states.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
K S
Dorkkarl, is this an O-104 or a new, previously unknown die marriage of extraordinarily high value?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
GREAT COIN!!!
K S
This is definitely not O.109 because of the reverse, check the relation of the lowest berry to A, and the point of leaf to I, 109 has the same reverse as 107, 108, 109. I am certain it is reverse B, which is on 103 and 104. The distance between S7 and L looks greater on your coin than Overton's 104, and the stars are further from the milling. The Overton example is a late state and very worn, the plates can be deceiving.
I will check my PCGS XF45 O.104, it might take a couple of days before I can get to the bank. If you can post a closeup of the area between S2 and S3 and the milling we could verify if it is O.104, but then if this is an early die state the die lumps may not show, although there are no known examples of this.
My XF O.104 has a very sharply struck periphery with sharp stars, and the centers are very mushy, the eagle's head is barely struck. This is a sunken die. The finest known O.104 (and only known MS) is an NGC MS64 than was auctioned at Superior on 10/00 and 5/01 @ $14950. This coin amazingly turned up on ebay about a year ago and did not sell. The centers were very, very soft on this coin, the central curls were not struck up at all.
David Lange of NGC is the best at professional attribution.
This is a very interesting post.
I can see how it looks like a 109 due to the appearance of the centering, strike, and milling
except we're pretty sure it has the B reverse
here's an O-104,
If it's a 104, at least it's better looking than this example, or Overton's, for that matter!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
grade - f-12 by type, vf-20 by variety, since it's obviously a late d.s.
K S
I finally got it from the bank box, here are some new pictures of the coin in question:
The relationships of the star points to the milling look correct for the 104 (S1B, S7UE, S8UE, S13B) but I could just as easily call 7 and 8 as pointing between denticles. BUT star 1 looks like it is only 1 mm from curl, not 1 1/2. Al O. doesn't give a measurement, but it looks like star 7 is farther from the L than on his example, but not as far as on Obverse 1?. I do not see much when I look closely for the diagnostic lumps near the milling between stars 2 and 3:
The reverse is certainly B, what I find interesting is the general weakness of the tops of the letters, especially the missing serifs on the U.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
With your close-up of S1-S7, there is no sign of the diagnostic die lumps between S2-S3. It is possible, as Condor said, they were lapped away, but they would have removed a LOT of material. The top of E and R in LIBERTY do show signs of lapping with the weak top serifs.
I am going to the bank tonight, I will take a long look at my 1807's.
If you want, I can post your images on the Bust Half Nut Club server for opinions. If the coin is an O.104, it would be an unlisted die state.
No more time right now, gotta run.
My guess is that this coin will find its way into a VF-20 holder somewhere down the line.
<< <i>Well, given my recent experiences, I'll guess XF-45. Sure is a beauty! >>
Yep, point taken. I've seen a number of early coins recently that have overgraded by one click at least, and by that I don't mean one point on the MS end of the scale.
Bill Jones, what is your opinion of the die variety of the coin?
Also discussed a little bit in this thread
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Unfortunately I don't have my coin or my Overton book with me as I am away at school, so I couldn't be much help in attributing it.
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
siliconvalleycoins.com
BC
Looks this might be a newly discovered obverse die, paired with reverse B, proposed name, O-115!
I'm planning to attend next Long Beach show to have officers and members of the Bust Half Nut Club take a look at it, in the meantime will take some more pics this weekend.
My thanks to everyone who responded to the post, especially Nysoto who put me in touch with the BHNC
stay tuned!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
sounds neat!!
siliconvalleycoins.com
In LIBERTY, note the unusual "arched" base of the R, and the lack of upper serifs on the B and R, and the very weak top of the R.
again no known obverse has these, although Obv 5 does lack serifs on the B.
I'd be interested in seeing any pictures you all might have of 1807 half dollars,
particularly closeups of LIBERTY, if you have them. Thanks!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Dennis
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook