Is this 1945 dime worth another shot at Full Bands?
Wanted to get a feel if I'm wasting money cracking this and sending to our host for a Full Band designation. In hand the center band looks to be all there if viewed as "railroad tracks" which is how I was taught for full steps nickels but not as versed in FB dimes. Thank you in advance!
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45-ADAB-51130EC8D3AA_1_201_a.jpeg
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it has to be all 3 bands and you forgot the pics
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My guess would be no - it won’t make it.
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I think it is 70/30 against it, maybe on the right day/right grader.
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Given rarity of the 1945-P dime with bans, I doubt it. The graders don’t give those out like candy.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?3 -
@MsMorrisine said:
it has to be all 3 bands and you forgot the picsThis is only true for Roosevelt dimes. Mercs are only the center bands.
'45s get a closer look in the grading room. I don't think it'll make it.
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“Is this 1945 dime worth another shot at Full Bands?”
No.“it has to be all 3 bands…”
No, it doesn’t.Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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ok.
where does the center band fail here?
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I had one very similar to this before.
Our host would most likely not give an FB designation, unfortunately.
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And this is what is completely wrong with such designations. This coin appears to be as close as you can possibly get and I wouldn’t shake my head over it if it was so designated and yet there’s going to be a huge price drop without the designation.
I’ve said many times that I would much rather do an almost there set than a full designation set. For these and for standing Liberty quarters..
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@tradedollarnut said:
And this is what is completely wrong with such designations. This coin appears to be as close as you can possibly get and I wouldn’t shake my head over it if it was so designated and yet there’s going to be a huge price drop without the designation.I’ve said many times that I would much rather do an almost there set than a full designation set. For these and for standing Liberty quarters..
Yup
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I don’t think it will ever Full Bands. I teach grading at ANA Summer Seminars and other seminars and would like to purchase this for that purpose if you decide to sell @manlye1
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@manlye1 said:
45-ADAB-51130EC8D3AA_1_201_a.jpegI'm not seeing it. Not full bands. Your coin is slightly closer to FB than a '45 I bought out of a dealer's triple row box, however.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@MsMorrisine said:
ok.where does the center band fail here?
Looks to me that there's a ding toward the right end of the center bands. The pushed up metal is in the gap. So, it seems to me that it probably was FB before that ding, but not any more, at least not in the eyes of folks commenting here...
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
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" '45s get a closer look in the grading room. "
If that's so, that's where I would disagree with the TPGs. All dates should get an equal look and be held to the same standard.
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@MsMorrisine said:
ok.where does the center band fail here?
I'm seeing a bridge in the bands about halfway across.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@MsMorrisine said:
ok.where does the center band fail here?
Slightly right of center.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@tradedollarnut said:
And this is what is completely wrong with such designations. This coin appears to be as close as you can possibly get and I wouldn’t shake my head over it if it was so designated and yet there’s going to be a huge price drop without the designation.I’ve said many times that I would much rather do an almost there set than a full designation set. For these and for standing Liberty quarters..
Rather than looking at it as a large price drop without the FB designation, I look at it as a large price increase with it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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I’m surprised coin doctors haven’t figured out how to use a fine, precise laser to fix the FB conundrum.
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@cameonut2011 said:
I’m surprised coin doctors haven’t figured out how to use a fine, precise laser to fix the FB conundrum.I heard of alterations to produce FB long go. But I don’t know how widespread it is.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Just for reference and I'm under no delusions it's borderline this has FB from our hosteg
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@MasonG said:
" '45s get a closer look in the grading room. "If that's so, that's where I would disagree with the TPGs. All dates should get an equal look and be held to the same standard.
It’s not possible. They have to protect the buyer from mistakes on these more expensive coins. So they need to spend extra time to make sure they got it right. Nobody wants to purchase a 1945 FSB Mercury unless it’s a sure FB designation, or a borderline MS 65 1921 S Walker
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@Walkerlover said:
@MasonG said:
" '45s get a closer look in the grading room. "If that's so, that's where I would disagree with the TPGs. All dates should get an equal look and be held to the same standard.
It’s not possible. They have to protect the buyer from mistakes on these more expensive coins. So they need to spend extra time to make sure they got it right. Nobody wants to purchase a 1945 FSB Mercury unless it’s a sure FB designation, or a borderline MS 65 1921 S Walker
In theory, I agree with you. However, it doesn’t always work out that way. Some coins that you’d think merit extra scrutiny/time, are still given generous grades and/or designations.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@manlye1 said:
Just for reference and I'm under no delusions it's borderline this has FB from our hostegA 1945 Philly issue Mercury dime in MS-60 FB grade is listed at $5,000 in 2027 Red Book. $12,000 in MS-65.
I don't know that any Mercury dime showing circulation wear is going to get FB designation from our host, however. From 1934 through 1945 the only issues you'll see a price for in the Circulation Strikes, Full Bands section in MS-60 (strictly uncirculated) is for the overdates and the 1945 Philadelphia issue.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@Walkerlover said:
So they need to spend extra time to make sure they got it right.Yes, I understand how it works. Still- they're being paid a fee to "get it right", so they should take as much care to get it right on a $100 coin as they do on a $10,000 coin.
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@MasonG said:
@Walkerlover said:
So they need to spend extra time to make sure they got it right.Yes, I understand how it works. Still- they're being paid a fee to "get it right", so they should take as much care to get it right on a $100 coin as they do on a $10,000 coin.
Until the grading services implement actual measurements of things like Full Bands or Full Head that can be objectively quantified (yes the standard of passing for Strike Designations would be a grading service defined standard), it will continue to be "hit or miss" particularly for coins that are nearly qualified by eye for the designation.
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Where's a coin doctor when you need one?
Like full steps on some Jeffersons and Roosevelts can be very hard to get vs common dates.
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Not seeing it on your original coin, although it is getting close ... and despite what they show it as, the coin you show as reference for having FB also looks suspect.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
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@CuKevin said:
Until the grading services implement actual measurements of things like Full Bands or Full Head that can be objectively quantified...I suspect that's never going to happen. There are coins you can say without a doubt "Yes, they are", ones you can say "No, they're not" but there will always be ones where it depends on who is looking at it. Same thing with grading where you have to decide between MS65.999 or MS66.000. Somewhere in that last 0.001, the coin jumps a grade, but good luck defining that point.
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I must say I am very impressed with the 2027 Redbook. $20 well-spent.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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I couldn't find the Redbook thread.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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Even with quantifiable standards, macro photography 3D imaging etc., there will always be disputes and customer dissatisfaction.
If the standards are too minute then the naked eye will not perceive and the arguments will intensify. Sorry, imperfect humans only here.1 -
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FB
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
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@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@MFeld said:
@tradedollarnut said:
And this is what is completely wrong with such designations. This coin appears to be as close as you can possibly get and I wouldn’t shake my head over it if it was so designated and yet there’s going to be a huge price drop without the designation.I’ve said many times that I would much rather do an almost there set than a full designation set. For these and for standing Liberty quarters..
Rather than looking at it as a large price drop without the FB designation, I look at it as a large price increase with it.
And an opportunity to take advantage of binary pricing of a continuum to get a "not quite full bands" coin, at a fraction of the cost of a "just barely full bands" coin. Same with SLQs.
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@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
The coin is MS63
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@manlye1 could you please post an image of your coin?
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@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Sure here you go!
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@manlye1 said:
Sure here you go!Wow that is really close.
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I feel like the OP coin does not qualify for "FB" designation.
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@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
That sounds like actual work.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
Maybe they did designate at one time some AUs as FB but no longer do so. If you think about it, the grading services are on some really thin ice using AU FB designation. Problem to be corrected but my guess is that both services have corrected by abandoning AU FB designation. If they haven't abandoned the AU FB designation? Well, "we've got a problem, Houston." Red Book is more of an authority on coins than either of the aforementioned grading services.Opinion.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
That sounds like actual work.
Har de har har. Where's your sidekick when you need him?
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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The pic tells the story, the story of a bridge smack dab in the center of the center bands.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
That sounds like actual work. > @mr1931S said:
@MFeld said:
@mr1931S said:
@oih82w8 said:
I just saw this 1945 10C PCGS MS65FBhttps://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1UQ831/1945-mercury-dime-ms-65-fb-pcgs
You may have a shot if this one can make it with a weakness in the center of the bands.
The OP's coin may not be unc so that's a consideration. AUs are never awarded FB designation is what I'm getting out of the 2027 Redbook.
What you got out of the 2027 Redbook was incorrect with respect to FB designations for AU Mercury dimes. Check the PCGS and NGC pop reports.
Maybe they did designate at one time some AUs as FB but no longer do so. If you think about it, the grading services are on some really thin ice using AU FB designation. Problem to be corrected but my guess is that both services have corrected by abandoning AU FB designation. If they haven't abandoned the AU FB designation? Well, "we've got a problem, Houston." Red Book is more of an authority on coins than either of the aforementioned grading services.Opinion.
Actually, they still do.
PCGS:
NGC:
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Worthwhile contribution lanzaf. I learn something new about coins almost every day. I wasn't seeing any prices in Red Book for AU FB as low as "50" for '16-D or the overdates, however.
Do you think PCGS would give me FB for my AU 50 or so 1938-D/D? It's definitely got full bands and is definitely not uncirculated.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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Possible but very iffy.
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