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Topps VS OPC baseball observations...

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  • NJ80sBBCNJ80sBBC Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭

    Tom, those sets are insane. What a collection you must have! Thanks for sharing.

    John

    Conundrum - Loving my unopened baseball card collection....but really like ripping too
  • NJ80sBBCNJ80sBBC Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭

    I bought many OPC boxes at one time from Board members. Still have them.

    John

    Conundrum - Loving my unopened baseball card collection....but really like ripping too
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a 1975 OPC Brett in psa 8 sold on ebay last night for $3,105.00

    the last 3 psa 8 topps brett rookies have sold for: $835, $970 and $1,102 for an average of $969

    this OPC sold for 3.2 times the average of the last 3 topps sold.

    that is a pretty healthy multiplier.

    OPC is selling strong

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    a 1975 OPC Brett in psa 8 sold on ebay last night for $3,105.00

    the last 3 psa 8 topps brett rookies have sold for: $835, $970 and $1,102 for an average of $969

    this OPC sold for 3.2 times the average of the last 3 topps sold.

    that is a pretty healthy multiplier.

    OPC is selling strong

    A PSA 6 recently sold for $1,000.00.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Buy up all the 1975 opc psa 9's you can. There will probably be very few graded going forward. Even 8's are very tough.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2026 12:32PM

    An 1972 OPC Fisk in PSA 10 sold for $18,977 on eBay last week. The PSA 6 that sold for $123 is more in my lane :)

    Daniel
  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    85s are tough, I’ve ripped 50 boxes and only a 9 on Doc and an 8.5 Puckett.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yes 1985's are very tough. Even the topps cards a very rarely centered.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • stanforddudestanforddude Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    Anyone ever seen these 1990 OPC Tembecs before? Apparently only the blue bordered sheet was printed with the Tembec test paper stock. I have a few of the 1989-90 Tembec hockey cards, but this was the first time I had seen the OPC baseball. Couldn’t resist and grabbed this Griffey card.

    https://ebay.us/m/YTZDZg

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that is awesome. I cant wait to see it!

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2026 2:13PM

    I figured if the OPC expert said I should buy 75 OPC's in PSA 8. I'd better!
    :D

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    sweet - pop is really low on blyleven..

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    sweet - pop is really low on blyleven..

    Love the picture as well!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    75 OPC's color just pops. I love that year for o pee chee! that is a really nice Bert. really underrated pitcher

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PSA 10 1987 OPC Bonds rookie sold on ebay this past weekend for $27k

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    75 OPC's color just pops. I love that year for o pee chee! that is a really nice Bert. really underrated pitcher

    I remember when he came up with the Twins. Amazing curveball! If you look at his game logs, in 1973, the Twins lost him about 7 games because they couldn't score; three games 3-2, three games 2-1, and they were shut out once 3-0 and another time 5-0.

    He was just as good if not better than Jim Palmer that year and finished seventh in the Cy Young voting. The Twins score a few more runs and he's got a 30 win season!

    Curious, I looked back to 1972 when he won 19 games and had a LOSING record. In June and July Bert started 14 games. the anemic Twins were shut out three times, scored 1 run FIVE TIMES, 2 runs twice and 3 runs twice. Must have driven him CRAZY, giving up 3 earned runs or less in 10 of 14 games and going 2-12. The Twins scored a TOTAL of 27 runs in those 14 games and managed to score 7 in one of his 2 victories. If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable! The Twins also lost a game 1-0 and two games 2-1 for Bert that season.

    ANOTHER potential 30 win season (or at least very close) if the Twins can just score at least 3 runs a game during that time.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love Blyleven and he gets a bum rap from fans because they think he only got in the HoF because he played so long (still don't understand why being able to stick in the Majors is a bad thing).

    He was a great pitcher who also played on some TERRIBLE teams. I mean some awful teams. All that and he was still able to be great all the time.

    That card is one of the coolest Blyleven's of all and yours is very nice.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @craig44 said:
    75 OPC's color just pops. I love that year for o pee chee! that is a really nice Bert. really underrated pitcher

    I remember when he came up with the Twins. Amazing curveball! If you look at his game logs, in 1973, the Twins lost him about 7 games because they couldn't score; three games 3-2, three games 2-1, and they were shut out once 3-0 and another time 5-0.

    He was just as good if not better than Jim Palmer that year and finished seventh in the Cy Young voting. The Twins score a few more runs and he's got a 30 win season!

    Curious, I looked back to 1972 when he won 19 games and had a LOSING record. In June and July Bert started 14 games. the anemic Twins were shut out three times, scored 1 run FIVE TIMES, 2 runs twice and 3 runs twice. Must have driven him CRAZY, giving up 3 earned runs or less in 10 of 14 games and going 2-12. The Twins scored a TOTAL of 27 runs in those 14 games and managed to score 7 in one of his 2 victories. If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable! The Twins also lost a game 1-0 and two games 2-1 for Bert that season.

    ANOTHER potential 30 win season (or at least very close) if the Twins can just score at least 3 runs a game during that time.

    results wise, Bert was just about as effective as Nolan Ryan. much less flashy, but about as good. while he may not have had Ryans heat, they say Berts curve was one of the greatest of all time. I only witnessed him the last 5 or so years of his career, but i definitely appreciate all he did. If memory serves, he had a major injury around 1990 or so and missed the entire season. had that not happened he certainly would have won the 13 games he needed to get to 300.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • tsalems1tsalems1 Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2026 8:39AM

    https://youtu.be/4NVBUalC2Ig?si=zzeVPxMVPIYONcwM

    Bobby does a great job with these videos. Lots of great information

    opcbaseball.com
  • Mikeygiggs_336699Mikeygiggs_336699 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭

    I’ve met Bobby at the sport card expo in Toronto and bought his hockey guides over the years, he is very knowledgeable in all things OPC vintage hockey/baseball.

  • Mikeygiggs_336699Mikeygiggs_336699 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭

    Just recently bought a 1974 OPC Steve Rogers PSA 10 rookie, will post when it arrives. I can pair him with his battery mate Gary Carter 75 OPC PSA 8.5 I also own

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Got an ebay Penguin alert on this card.
    Not my card. Never could be my card. Who wants to guess the final price?
    Those are some suspiciously clean cut edges for OPC.
    Seems a little small in the holder compared to my PSA6. (card top/Schmidt side border)

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 726 ✭✭✭

    I agree. That looks trimmed.

  • stanforddudestanforddude Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    @stanforddude said:
    Anyone ever seen these 1990 OPC Tembecs before? Apparently only the blue bordered sheet was printed with the Tembec test paper stock. I have a few of the 1989-90 Tembec hockey cards, but this was the first time I had seen the OPC baseball. Couldn’t resist and grabbed this Griffey card.

    https://ebay.us/m/YTZDZg

    For the extreme O-Pee-Chee variant geeks, found this list on TCDB where they're referred to as White Backs. Looks like the 132 cards from the blue sheet can be found with the white backs. No idea how hard these are to find.

    https://www.tcdb.com/Checklist.cfm/sid/159359/1990-

  • tsalems1tsalems1 Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone ever seen these 1990 OPC Tembecs before? Apparently only the blue bordered sheet was printed with the Tembec test paper stock. I have a few of the 1989-90 Tembec hockey cards, but this was the first time I had seen the OPC baseball. Couldn’t resist and grabbed this Griffey card.

    For the extreme O-Pee-Chee variant geeks, found this list on TCDB where they're referred to as White Backs. Looks like the 132 cards from the blue sheet can be found with the white backs. No idea how hard these are to find.

    They are not hard to find at all

    opcbaseball.com
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2026 4:48PM

    @craig44 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @craig44 said:
    75 OPC's color just pops. I love that year for o pee chee! that is a really nice Bert. really underrated pitcher

    I remember when he came up with the Twins. Amazing curveball! If you look at his game logs, in 1973, the Twins lost him about 7 games because they couldn't score; three games 3-2, three games 2-1, and they were shut out once 3-0 and another time 5-0.

    He was just as good if not better than Jim Palmer that year and finished seventh in the Cy Young voting. The Twins score a few more runs and he's got a 30 win season!

    Curious, I looked back to 1972 when he won 19 games and had a LOSING record. In June and July Bert started 14 games. the anemic Twins were shut out three times, scored 1 run FIVE TIMES, 2 runs twice and 3 runs twice. Must have driven him CRAZY, giving up 3 earned runs or less in 10 of 14 games and going 2-12. The Twins scored a TOTAL of 27 runs in those 14 games and managed to score 7 in one of his 2 victories. If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable! The Twins also lost a game 1-0 and two games 2-1 for Bert that season.

    ANOTHER potential 30 win season (or at least very close) if the Twins can just score at least 3 runs a game during that time.

    results wise, Bert was just about as effective as Nolan Ryan. much less flashy, but about as good. while he may not have had Ryans heat, they say Berts curve was one of the greatest of all time. I only witnessed him the last 5 or so years of his career, but i definitely appreciate all he did. If memory serves, he had a major injury around 1990 or so and missed the entire season. had that not happened he certainly would have won the 13 games he needed to get to 300.

    I'll finish up on Blyleven here so we don't get anyone crying about being off topic;

    Somehow Bert has a higher WAR and ERA+ than Nolan, in 88 fewer lifetime starts, Bert has only 1 less shutout, Bert walked half as many batters. Bert also pitched 20 more complete games, and had a lower WHIP.

    Looks like if you don't get all exited about no-hitters and realize a shut-out is actually (for the team) just as good.

    Bert was BETTER than Ryan!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RonSportscards said:
    Got an ebay Penguin alert on this card.
    Not my card. Never could be my card. Who wants to guess the final price?
    Those are some suspiciously clean cut edges for OPC.
    Seems a little small in the holder compared to my PSA6. (card top/Schmidt side border)

    i do not like that card. at all.

    it is trimmed. its swimming in that holder and those edges are WAY too crispy.

    My OPC SGC 8 Schmidt rookie has super rough cut edges like the majority of 73 schmidts

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • 1982FBWaxMemories1982FBWaxMemories Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RonSportscards said:
    Got an ebay Penguin alert on this card.
    Not my card. Never could be my card. Who wants to guess the final price?
    Those are some suspiciously clean cut edges for OPC.
    Seems a little small in the holder compared to my PSA6. (card top/Schmidt side border)

    Looks like a Brent, Baker, Moser special

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
    Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)

  • ElMagoStrikeZoneElMagoStrikeZone Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I consumed a mushroom and now I can't quit staring at the flashing lights. :p

    Hell hath no fury like a Northside slump.

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1973 OPC Cey/Schmidt RC PSA10 is currently at $32k with 3 days left.

    Total POP: 513
    POP10: 6
    POP9: 45

    PSA9s sold in the $7k range as late as 12/2025, according to PSA data.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Just as another example, here are the edges of my OPC schmidt.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    Just as another example, here are the edges of my OPC schmidt.

    Nice! That thing needs a sticker....no, no...just kidding.
    I subbed some 70s OPCs to SGC that I thought were 9s with a shot at 10, but the best I got was an 8.5.
    SGC doesn't like the OPC rough cuts.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    Just as another example, here are the edges of my OPC schmidt.

    Amazing card! I am not usually a fan of the rough cut, but that card is SWEET!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @craig44 said:

    Just as another example, here are the edges of my OPC schmidt.

    Amazing card! I am not usually a fan of the rough cut, but that card is SWEET!

    thanks joe. i love the rough cut on that example. and the centering.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • smallstockssmallstocks Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rough cuts give those cards character!


    Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a couple of big OPC sales yesterday:

    1985 Puckett PSA 10-$4410

    1966 Mantle PSA 8-$5877

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wasn't that actually a "Best Offer"? Still a lot of money, All I could afford was a 9 in Kirby's OPC. There are 67 PSA 10's. Doesn't look good for an upgrade for me!

    I wonder what a 1985 LEAF/DONRUSS KIRBY PUCKETT in PSA 10 would go for. Only 25 of those exist!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2026 7:40AM

    @JoeBanzai said:
    Wasn't that actually a "Best Offer"? Still a lot of money, All I could afford was a 9 in Kirby's OPC. There are 67 PSA 10's. Doesn't look good for an upgrade for me!

    I wonder what a 1985 LEAF/DONRUSS KIRBY PUCKETT in PSA 10 would go for. Only 25 of those exist!

    good point on the "best offer" not as good of a comp as a straight auction.

    not sure about what kirby psa 10 opc vs leaf prices would be, but the pop suggests that leaf would be more expensive.

    I know the Clemens market better. Unfortunately he does not have an 85 opc, but his Leaf in PSA 10 just sold for a little over $4000.00 in auction last month. his Donruss in psa 10 only sells for $300-$400.

    I would imagine Kirbys best rookie would be a psa 10 85 tifffany? not sure what those sell for, but a Clemens did over $22,000 last month!

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 12,684 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2026 11:05AM

    @craig44 said:

    @JoeBanzai said:
    Wasn't that actually a "Best Offer"? Still a lot of money, All I could afford was a 9 in Kirby's OPC. There are 67 PSA 10's. Doesn't look good for an upgrade for me!

    I wonder what a 1985 LEAF/DONRUSS KIRBY PUCKETT in PSA 10 would go for. Only 25 of those exist!

    good point on the "best offer" not as good of a comp as a straight auction.

    not sure about what kirby psa 10 opc vs leaf prices would be, but the pop suggests that leaf would be more expensive.

    I know the Clemens market better. Unfortunately he does not have an 85 opc, but his Leaf in PSA 10 just sold for a little over $4000.00 in auction last month. his Donruss in psa 10 only sells for $300-$400.

    I would imagine Kirbys best rookie would be a psa 10 85 tifffany? not sure what those sell for, but a Clemens did over $22,000 last month!

    "
    "
    "
    "

    Not sure either, but there are 53 Puckett Tiffany Rookies in PSA 10.

    The 1984 Fleer update was always his most expensive, not a "true rookie", rookie card. 663 of them.

    Then there's the 1983 Fritsch Minor league card. 63 of those in a 10.

    His most scarce "true" (I think, or would it be considered regional? Does that even matter anymore?) Rookie would be the 1985 7-11 card. GREAT photo and only 16 10's. One sold for $2,140.00 in February. GREAT VALUE if you ask me!

    Here's the best one I could afford.

    Better stop talking Puckett or I'll get scolded. :#

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai wow, i have never seen that 7-11 Puckett. that is a cool card. you wont get scolded by me for talking Puckett. I always loved watching him play. Probably my favorite Twin

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 73 OPC PSA10 #615 Cey/Schmidt RC sold for $70,888 on ebay.
    The last Topps PSA10 sold on Dec 19, 2025 for $353,800.00 in a Heritage auction, according to PSA data.

    As of this post, there have been a total of about 500 OPCs graded by PSA, and about 12,500 Topps graded.
    OPC has a POP6 in PSA10 while Topps has a POP5.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RonSportscards said:
    The 73 OPC PSA10 #615 Cey/Schmidt RC sold for $70,888 on ebay.
    The last Topps PSA10 sold on Dec 19, 2025 for $353,800.00 in a Heritage auction, according to PSA data.

    As of this post, there have been a total of about 500 OPCs graded by PSA, and about 12,500 Topps graded.
    OPC has a POP6 in PSA10 while Topps has a POP5.

    Holy Cow!! that was a huge drop. I would imagine too many potential bidders saw how small that card is and realized it is trimmed.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • 1982FBWaxMemories1982FBWaxMemories Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @RonSportscards said:
    The 73 OPC PSA10 #615 Cey/Schmidt RC sold for $70,888 on ebay.
    The last Topps PSA10 sold on Dec 19, 2025 for $353,800.00 in a Heritage auction, according to PSA data.

    As of this post, there have been a total of about 500 OPCs graded by PSA, and about 12,500 Topps graded.
    OPC has a POP6 in PSA10 while Topps has a POP5.

    Holy Cow!! that was a huge drop. I would imagine too many potential bidders saw how small that card is and realized it is trimmed.

    70K for a clearly trimmed card like that is way too much but then again some "big names" on this forum seem to LOVE the Baker/Brent/Moser "Specials"

    BTW The previous cards at Heritage, one can never rule out shenanigans with them. It is the BAU HA business model after all!

    It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
    Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 12,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1982FBWaxMemories said:

    @craig44 said:

    @RonSportscards said:
    The 73 OPC PSA10 #615 Cey/Schmidt RC sold for $70,888 on ebay.
    The last Topps PSA10 sold on Dec 19, 2025 for $353,800.00 in a Heritage auction, according to PSA data.

    As of this post, there have been a total of about 500 OPCs graded by PSA, and about 12,500 Topps graded.
    OPC has a POP6 in PSA10 while Topps has a POP5.

    Holy Cow!! that was a huge drop. I would imagine too many potential bidders saw how small that card is and realized it is trimmed.

    70K for a clearly trimmed card like that is way too much but then again some "big names" on this forum seem to LOVE the Baker/Brent/Moser "Specials"

    BTW The previous cards at Heritage, one can never rule out shenanigans with them. It is the BAU HA business model after all!

    true story. on both counts!

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1982FBWaxMemories said:

    @craig44 said:

    @RonSportscards said:
    The 73 OPC PSA10 #615 Cey/Schmidt RC sold for $70,888 on ebay.
    The last Topps PSA10 sold on Dec 19, 2025 for $353,800.00 in a Heritage auction, according to PSA data.

    As of this post, there have been a total of about 500 OPCs graded by PSA, and about 12,500 Topps graded.
    OPC has a POP6 in PSA10 while Topps has a POP5.

    Holy Cow!! that was a huge drop. I would imagine too many potential bidders saw how small that card is and realized it is trimmed.

    70K for a clearly trimmed card like that is way too much but then again some "big names" on this forum seem to LOVE the Baker/Brent/Moser "Specials"

    BTW The previous cards at Heritage, one can never rule out shenanigans with them. It is the BAU HA business model after all!

    Nice post I agree!!

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 4,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ozzie opc psa 10 sold on ebay for $71,000 pop 2. As for the Schmidt opc above, looks trimmed, but that shouldn't be the real reason since its slabbed. The post by 1982 makes the most sense. $350,000 vs $70,000 is way too much a difference for essentially the same pop. BUt in this case since the Topps is a pop 5, it probably should sell for a higher amount. The opc sell sounds more legit than someone paying $350,000 for a topps one.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • ElMagoStrikeZoneElMagoStrikeZone Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You guys DO realize that the “should sell, could sell” aspect of this is completely dependent on deep-pocketed wealth playing a high stakes game of chicken with other bidders. The true value of these “rare” cards is rather difficult to dictate when the spenders are irrational and disconnected from logic.

    Hell hath no fury like a Northside slump.

  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    As for the Schmidt opc above, looks trimmed, but that shouldn't be the real reason since its slabbed. The post by 1982 makes the most sense. $350,000 vs $70,000 is way too much a difference for essentially the same pop. BUt in this case since the Topps is a pop 5, it probably should sell for a higher amount. The opc sell sounds more legit than someone paying $350,000 for a topps one.

    Goldin sold a Topps PSA10 for $317,200 back in Nov 2024, so $350,000 by Heritage is not that outrageous by comparison.
    The Heritage card was from the Dmitri Collection.
    But if you're a believer of equal POP/equal price, then $70,000 cant be considered that legit.

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