Many collectors miss the whole point of collecting.....

truthteller · February 1, 2003 5:17AM

since it is assumed collectors are buying coins for fun and education. Many collectors used to start coin collections as a pastime and for enjoyment. Unfortunately, the coin collector of today expects a substantial monetary return on the "investment" of money and time. It just doesn't work that way. A dealer will work with you to put a fine collection together, but don't expect a huge profit, or any profit at all down the line. Isn't the joy of collecting worth the dollar value? Maybe collectors should rethink what the true purpose of coin collecting is? I learned more about history than anything while putting my collection together. Can you say the same? For the most part, collectors of today want to know what the potential profit is, or how high the registry number is. Most modern commem collectors can't even identify the reason why the coin was struck, only that the number on the holder is MS69 and worth $200. Bottom line: what are your motives, money or enjoyment?

TRUTH

Clankeye · February 1, 2003 5:20AM

<< I learned more about history than anything while putting my collection together. Can you say the same? >>

Yes.

Carl

nwcs · February 1, 2003 5:25AM

I've gone round-n-round trying to figure out what I want from coin collecting. It started as enjoying precious metals, went to history, then greed, then back to history and right now I think I've found a good space. I find that what I want out of collecting is to find nice examples I can enjoy that are eye appealing to me. I do still think about the money aspect, but I find that when I focus on coins that bring a smile to my face (and not make me think about reselling for profit) I get all the enjoyment I really want. And I found you don't have to spend a tremendous amount of money for that. Although sometimes you want to!

BillJones · February 1, 2003 5:25AM

I've seen many collectors ruin the hobby for themselves by trying to turn into vest pocket dealers. They buy and sell and buy and sell and never keep anything. They get so concerned about "turnover" that they pass on great collector coins that can become the basis for an important collection in the future. In the end many of them drift out of the hobby.

LanLord · February 1, 2003 5:28AM

I collect for the love of the coin itself. If it "calls out to me" I will put it into my collection. I too get the history lesson from the collecting.

That said, If I see something that might be a good investment (buffalo commems, silver proof sets with state quarters, gold for the last few years etc.) I will pick it up and hold it as well. In this sense, I feel that I collect for two reasons. However, if those "investment" coins never appreciate, I would collect and love them anyway.

Russ · February 1, 2003 5:30AM

<< Unfortunately, the coin collector of today expects a substantial monetary return on the "investment" of money and time. >>

Not all coin collectors. If that were actually the case, I wouldn't buy half the oddball weird junk that I do. Much of it is stuff that most think is stupid, but I have fun with it so what most think is of little concern to me.

Russ, NCNE

LucyBop · February 1, 2003 5:43AM

I have never boughten a Frankie and thought how much am I gonna make on this one. I buy em cause I like em. And I have a fiendish plot to remove as many as possible from the market! Same goes for my Silver and Golden age Archie comics!

wingedliberty · February 1, 2003 5:53AM

Truthteller:
You are far from telling the truth. You make alot of assumptions, especially about modern commem.
collectors. I collect modern commems and know more about history than most college professors.
Most collectors collect for the fun of it, but ALL care about the value of their collection. There is not
a single collector out there who cares nothing about a coins long term value and the pride they take in
the quality of their collection. I would not recommend making such poorly thoughout comments before
you get your facts straight.

Brian.

ARCO · February 1, 2003 5:59AM

I collect coins because I love the history and lore behind them, they look great and I thoroughly enjoy them. I never buy a coin that I can't sell for what I paid. I am not interested in putting together a nice set of coins to line someone elses pockets at my expense.

Tyler

Outhaul · February 1, 2003 6:03AM

I collect purely for the joy of collecting. I do not stay on top of the value of what I have and I only sell when I have upgraded. I never got into this hobby to make money, just to enjoy myself when it's not sailing season

Cheers,

Bob

clw54 · February 1, 2003 6:08AM

If an alien from another planet were to read this board, it would come to the conclusion that collecting is about getting high numbers on coins that have changed color.

Baley · February 1, 2003 6:14AM

I completely agree with the generalizations truthteller makes in his intial post, as well as the exceptions of those replying, including myself

considering ourselves true collectors, we value the enjoyment. and if we can increase our enjoyment and put away a few additional nice pieces by trading here and there, more the better!

my method is to use 2 US 1793-present type coin books, #1 is complete from 1800 (wow those 179X coins are tough

) and if I upgrade a coin in #1, it bumps the old one to #2, where it either fills a hole or bumps the old #2 coin into my sell/trade pile. Works the same way with various collections of slabbed coins in different boxes, and this way my collection grows in scope and quality as well as number, and duplicates and inferior pieces get recapitalized.

so, as is probably becoming apparent in my answers, one of my mottos is "everything in moderation" along with "it's not black or white but somewhere between" and the old fave, "it depends"

truthteller · February 1, 2003 6:37AM

Wingedlib,

Sorry, I disagree. If a modern collector cared about the coin, he/she would never have it slabbed. History is in the coin, not the PCGS holder. I tend to think the packaging from the mint is nicer than that of a slab. So an MS70 would be worth the same as a MS60 to a true collector of coin history. As far as "facts straight", there are none, only opinions, carefully thoughtout.

TRUTH

fcloud · February 1, 2003 6:42AM

Maybe it should be against the law for a collector to make a profit. And only dealers would be allowed to make a profit. When a collector doesn't want their set anymore they should just give it to the closest dealer!

kranky · February 1, 2003 6:45AM

I find what I learn about coins to be so enjoyable, I don't buy all that many. I've never submitted a coin to be slabbed, I don't find much to like about grade rarity and I don't look for crackout candidates.

In contrast to the example in the first post, I'm more likely to know why the coin was struck, and not be able to identify the price.

It's a great hobby and I have nothing against those who want to show a profit for their activities. But the money is not what keeps my interest.

cladking · February 1, 2003 6:47AM

<< Wingedlib,

Sorry, I disagree. If a modern collector cared about the coin, he/she would never have it slabbed. History is in the coin, not the PCGS holder. I tend to think the packaging from the mint is nicer than that of a slab. So an MS70 would be worth the same as a MS60 to a true collector of coin history. As far as "facts straight", there are none, only opinions, carefully thoughtout.

TRUTH >>

Oh! You might want to rethink some of this.

ClausUrch · February 1, 2003 6:56AM

Maybe to a "true collector of coin history" but not to a "true collector of coins". Keep in mind opinions are like elbows

, everyone has one. Urrrr...two!

Elcontador · February 1, 2003 7:10AM

When I was eleven years old, I got a "really old quarter" from the cashier as change at a Saturday matinee. Rather than buy junk food with it, I saved the coin. I went to a coin shop, and the dealer suggested that I purchase a Redbook, which I did.

The coin was a 1932 Washington Quarter. I was amazed; so they started making Washington quarters 200 years after he was born. Okay. I flipped the coin over & saw an 'S' below the eagle. I had just found the rarest
Washington quarter ever made and connected it with a bit of history.

When I find a new coin for my type set, I feel a little bit of the joy I felt as an eleven year old that Saturday afternoon.

PS: I still have that quarter.

Dog97 · February 1, 2003 8:17AM

I collect a little bit of everything..........

I have a few modern clads in slabs. Matter of fact I have every stinking coin minted in 1997, biz, proof, bullion, commems etc, most in the 69 or 70 grade in PCGS holders. I have the high grades because they are, ummm....well...graded higher than the low grades. Yep, I bought them strictly for the number on the slab. I assure you it was for enjoyment since I've watched the prices rise & fall and I never sold out. My most valuable one is a $5 with Jackie Robinson on it, worth about $1,000 +. Is there history in it? I care nothing about sports figures.

Got a big pile of mint errors. Certianly won't make any $$ off those but sure learned a lot about the minting process along the way. Very interesting to look at too.

Got some Sample Slabs. Now when I see a slab the first thing I notice is when the coin was holdered. Helps me as a collector because I can tell what the "standards" were when the coin was slabbed and how it compares to today.

At 1 time I was eat up with the # on the slab, and knew the graysheet & pop report by heart for Morgans. I cracked 100s just to make a quick $$ and didn't care anything about the coin or the history. Only wanted to get the upgrade on the numerical # on the insert and instant profit. That really helped me as a buyer/seller because I still look at every coin and compare it to the assigned grade just like it was a potential crackout. I can still spot a low end coin a mile away and avoid it while leaning toward the higher end for the grade coins.

Bought a lot of bullion gold when the world didn't end after Y2K. Should have sold it last week when the price was so high but maybe it'll be higher next year.

There's nothing to crackout now and my Morgan set has been completed and upgraded 5 times over in the last 30 years so collecting had gotten really boring to me. There's a great historical coin, I learned all about the political BS that went into the design & minting of Morgans, thanks to Leroy V. I sure didn't care anything about that whan I was trying to flunk out of high school. Every once in a great while I buy some kind of pretty Proof or MS 1897 but 1 buy every 8 months is kinda dull so mostly all I buy now is cheap toned Morgans from eBay because I'm having fun making a weird looking Registry Set at NGC.

I've been the greedy seller, the worried investor, and the astute numismatician so I can understand it's just an enjoyable hobby for some while others are dead serious about the $$$ aspect of it.

goose3 · February 1, 2003 8:39AM

I collect for fun, frustration(at times), enjoyment, and in hopes of "hooking" my 5 year old son in a lifelong educational hobby.

I started out when I was about 5 or 6 with my grandfather(I am now 32). I now collect for the most part, KEY date coins of any series. With that in mind THAT is why I buy most of my coins slabbed.(for authenticity and problem free purposes-NOT numerical)

I could not care less about collecting modern "numbers". The only reason I have a FE registry set is because I had the key date to the set and those are my favorite series! If you look at my set you'll see no MS coins. I own only a few "moderns" and only because they are key dates such as the Matte Proof Jeffersons and Kennedy.

If I sell one of my key dates for an upgrade and make a few bucks that is great. I don't expect to hit the jackpot on them. More times than not I break even on what I have in the coin. If I hang onto my coins and my son does the same I would expect he could make quite a gain on them many years from now but I would hope that he would keep them when I'm no longer around.

I've been jumping all over recently in my collecting. Ranging from buffalo nickels to a recent Chain Cent. I am also helping my son complete a 1800-date Type set in a dansco album. I've also had an eye for CWT's lately too.

barberlover · February 1, 2003 8:48AM

I got into collecting because my dad gave me his collection of jeffersons & lincolns but i stayed a collector because coins from before i was born got me interested in u.s. history [when school never did] I later developed a very expensive interest in finding older u.s. coins that looked like new which later were called "gems" Thats a terrible habit to get into when your not rich, but i can't help it. I love mint state type coins even when there not out performing wallstreet.

FatMan · February 1, 2003 9:12AM

<< If an alien from another planet were to read this board, it would come to the conclusion that collecting is about getting high numbers on coins that have changed color. >>

ROFL

That is the truest statement I've seen here in a long time.

I collect because I like round shiny objects. I like history too.

Outhaul · February 1, 2003 9:19AM

"TRUTHTELLER...I tend to think the packaging from the mint is nicer than that of a slab."

Hey...we agree. Could this be a trend?

I happen to think that the mint does an excellent job in packaging. I think it's only the ridiculous prices MS-70/PF-70 moderns can bring is what gets people to remove them. That AND registry sets.

Cheers,

Bob

dorkkarl · February 1, 2003 9:49AM

<< Unfortunately, the coin collector of today expects a substantial monetary return on the "investment" of money and time. It just doesn't work that way. A dealer will work with you to put a fine collection together, but don't expect a huge profit, or any profit at all down the line. Isn't the joy of collecting worth the dollar value? >>

i like what you're saying.

i'll bring this up again. the wisest coin dealer i ever knew told me:

if you like a coin, really like it, & if you really, really want it, then the price does not matter

i've been ridiculed a little in the past about this statement, but amazingly, i discovered many years ago, that if i put together set w/ coins that i LIKE, lo and behold, it always seems to bring more value than coins just put together w/out regard to matching for color, strike, etc.

truthteller, i hope you pursue your argument.

K S

coinut1799 · February 1, 2003 9:54AM

Goose 3; Is that your daughter? She is adorable. How old is she? Makes coin collecting seem very pale by comparison.

roadrunner · February 1, 2003 9:59AM

And the corollary to this is that the dealer should be more than happy to forgo profits in order to locate nice coins for his customers.
Just knowing that he/she found that just right coin at a great price should be satisfaction enough. And in doing so the dealer kept the collector out of the clutches of those only interested in maximizing profits. Isn't the sense of accomplishment enough?

roadrunner

DHeath · February 1, 2003 10:09AM

Truth,

Your post seems to assume there are only two possible motives for collecting (historical knowledge or profit). In fact, there are hundreds of reasons and strategies for collecting. Sometimes I feel the hobby is far too moneycentric (no pun intended), and sometimes I question privately the judgement of some collectors purchases, but I choose not to generalize as I think it inaccurate. I like beautiful coins that properly showcase the designers art, and I'm not too specific about what I admire. That makes the hobby quite enjoyable and sometimes inexpensive for me. I am a set builder, a type collector, a fan of toning, a silver hoarder, a bust half collector, a modern collector, and sometimes a submitter. I think some of the coins look great in EF. Sometimes I submit PQ coins (Modern and Classic) to preserve them for my collection. Did I miss the point of collecting? If so, I'll remain happily uninformed and misdirected.

dbldie55 · February 1, 2003 10:16AM

Interesting topic. What I have seen on this board is that if you choose to collect modern coins in raw condition at face value because you do not feel like paying huge prices for coins in plastic with large numbers you are a modern basher, a modern hater and the latest is you are unknowledgeable. I guess if you do "not" buy these expensive examples, you just do not belong and should have no opinions.

So, unless the reason people usually collect things is very different from what I have always thought, I would think you are correct.

Fairlaneman · February 1, 2003 10:17AM

Really does there have to be a cut and dried reason why a person collects a coin or for that matter anything. Collecting can have many different meanings for many different people. Some may collect for the history, not me, some may collect for the money motive, that would be nice, and some may collect just because they "Plain" just like a certain series, finally something fits.

Collecting is just a very nice diversion that has brought some enjoyment in the twlight of this guys life. No real special reason collecting is done except I just plain enjoy hunting ,talking and sometimes even finding a certain Little Lady (Mercury Dime) I like very much. Sure I am guilty of trying to make a buck on a coin I sell, who isn't, but for the most part a coin is only sold when a better one is found to replace it.

Really does there have to be a cut and dried reason why a person Collects Coins ? Don't think so.

Ken

RotatedRainbows · February 1, 2003 10:19AM

As usual Truthteller tells it like it is (whether some want to believe it or not) but in todays society (ever since the 80's) money is the only thing that some people think about. They don't call it a hobby for nothing, go look in the dictionary OK I will save you the time.

Hobby-Favorite pastime or leisure-time pursuit

I don't see anything about making money (better look under investor) or worrying over a number on a slab or if your coin was undergraded. If you are not enjoying yourself FIND A NEW HOBBY, Don't spend money on coins you can't afford to lose.

truthteller · February 1, 2003 10:27AM

As stated on another thread, "Does the wrapper make the candy taste better, does the can make the tuna fish smell nicer?" How can the holder make the coin more collectible? When PCGS and NGC are no longer in business, make sure you are able to withstand the monetary loss. For the most part, the VALUE of the coin in a holder is an illusion, very sophisticated and very seductive. Money to be made with the 11 point uncirculated grading scheme. Imagine Eliasberg, Garrett, Norweb paying thousands more for a coin without a little bagmark. They would have laughed at the dealer offering the coin. They bought coins of intrinsic value and rarity, with great eye appeal and aesthic appeal. A registry set may be affordable to the average collector today, but what about 20 years from now? Will that registry set of MS68 lincolns be more valuable? Maybe so, but probably not. So it goes, the illusion continues.

TRUTH

FC57Coins · February 1, 2003 10:31AM

I think I speak for a lot of collectors who - let's face it - only have so much money they can sink into this hobby and therefore have to find ways to subsidize this habit of ours. Because it is a habit, and an expensive one. So yes I admit that I have rumaged through my entire collection of moderns and picked out the best I have - slabbed them and sold, or are selling them. Why? because I want to be able to enjoy this hobby as I chose to. I've selected two areas to concentrate on thus far... My first choice was Franklin halves. Why? Because it was a coin that was around in my youth. It was the last time innocense was still rampant, it was a time of change. Hard to believe that it was almost 50 years ago, but there you have it - Sputnik, the cold war, bobby socks, beatnicks, the whole ball of wax in a collection of half dollars that most people consider ugly, but to me, they can be breathtaking. Oh and did I mention that it was the last complete set of silver halves? That's a nice addition too. Now I'm into Morgan Dollars, not only for their beauty and the vast array of varieties and colors they come in, but because each of these, in their own way tells the story of Alexander Graham Bell, Edison, the Wright Brothers, Teddy Roosevelt, the wild west, all of this beckoned by a stunning lady made of silver. So, am I wrong for filling a gap here by selling a coin there? Nope. Do I think I'll become rich and retire off my collection, hell no. But I do get enjoyment out of it. AND I get enjoyment out of the fact that other collectors feel the same sense of fulfillment when I sell them the odd coin now and again.

Frank

Baley · February 1, 2003 10:36AM

Dheath what you say is so profound and true that I feel compelled to cut and paste it:

Your post seems to assume there are only two possible motives for collecting (historical knowledge or profit). In fact, there are hundreds of reasons and strategies for collecting. Sometimes I feel the hobby is far too moneycentric (no pun intended), and sometimes I question privately the judgement of some collectors purchases, but I choose not to generalize as I think it inaccurate. I like beautiful coins that properly showcase the designers art, and I'm not too specific about what I admire. That makes the hobby quite enjoyable and sometimes inexpensive for me. I am a set builder, a type collector, a fan of toning, a silver hoarder, a bust half collector, a modern collector, and sometimes a submitter. I think some of the coins look great in EF. Sometimes I submit PQ coins (Modern and Classic) to preserve them for my collection. Did I miss the point of collecting? If so, I'll remain happily uninformed and misdirected.

cladking · February 1, 2003 10:36AM

So long as people collect moderns they will probably seek out high grade examples.
This is simply because so many examples were poorly made, because the vast majority
of them degraded in circulation, and because many of them are quite common except
in the high grades.

Those who don't understand the desire to create a set, those who don't understand the
desire to have the best, and those who can't see rarity and beauty in the most common
sunrise may be the ones missing the whole point of collecting.

Read Rick Tomaskas editorial in the latest Coin World. Do you think he's missing the whole
point?

clw54 · February 1, 2003 10:37AM

I like Goose3's approach to collecting key dates. Here's an article I've posted here before, although not for several months now. Some of you may have read it already, but I'm sure some haven't.

Key Date Collecting

Coin Finder · February 1, 2003 10:56AM

I think what happens some of the time is what happened to me. I started out a collector. I went to coin shops and shows. Started to learn mostly from dealers what to look for, how to grade etc. I then found myself being offered coins that "were sure to upgrade!" And low and behold, they did. I made $150.00 when I sold the coin at a show. I promptly put the new found money down on a collector coin I wanted. This cycle continued until I found myself selling coins on the Internet and at shows and actually making money. The money, however goes right into my next collector coin for my set. Soon the line become blurred and I still am building my set, but the money I need for the next coin is tied up in another coin or coins I thought I could make money on and can,t sell them. Then I sell low and lose. For me I have kept my eyes on the prize and will continue to make $$ on coins if I can only to build my set.

Also, PCGS and NGC out of Business is not that far fetched. All it would take is some loose financial records, over extensions on loans, big stock sell off etc. I collect a series that would probably do better outside the holder anyway.....Large Cents.

Tbig

DHeath · February 1, 2003 11:27AM

Someone better tell Jeff that these coins are worth $10.

Raw proof set on ebay.

I find the decision to treat all mint products as commodities pretty silly, and the opinion that raw moderns are not worth anything outside a third-party holder equally uninformed. You guys really should stop speaking in absolutes. There are plenty of moderns I'd pay more than face for whether PCGS/NGC existed tommorrow or not. Collecting didn't stop in 1932. If all mint products look the same to you, I applaud your denial, but really there is so much middle ground. Does quality affect the value of a proof Trade dollar? Ironically, it does with moderns too. While there are plenty of examples of people paying for plastic, there are occasionally dramatic differences in the quality of coins as well. JMO

pmh1nic · February 1, 2003 11:44AM

History, art, science and technology; collecting has elements of them all. Yea, we spend a lot of time taking grading, modern versus classic and what constitutes ATed but those should be just minor distraction from what I feel are the really interesting aspect of collecting.

LucyBop · February 1, 2003 2:28PM

<< My first choice was Franklin halves. Why? Because it was a coin that was around in my youth. It was the last time innocense was still rampant, it was a time of change. Hard to believe that it was almost 50 years ago, but there you have it - Sputnik, the cold war, bobby socks, beatnicks, >>

Daddy-o, what about Sock Hops? Hepsters? The Killer cars from the 50s? Rock'n Roll? Boppin? Black n White TV? The Alien Craze and Monster Movies? Saddle Shoes? Poodle Skirts? Sideburns? Pompadours? Jukeboxes? 45 rpm portable players? Drag racing? Cruising up to nine mile hill and play those KILLER ballads while watching the submarine races?

dakra · February 1, 2003 3:12PM

I can't honestly say I agree with Truthteller 100%.

My father-in-law gave me some simple advice about collecting. Always buy 2, keep 1 for yourself and use the other to trade or make a profit down the road so your collection is self sustaining. Let's face it, if every coin collector never sold any of their coins, the market for older coins would be nil and void. When a rare coin did find itself on the market, hundreds of collectors would aim to add that coin to their collection and the effects of supply and demand would skyrocket the cost of that coin.

There are many reason's to collect coins. Personally, I enjoy learning about the coins, trying to put the set together, feeling giddy when I get a key date. On the other hand, I also look at it as an investment. I buy two sets, keep one and hope I can recoup my original investment by selling the second set, which will enable me to collect for years to come. Perhaps life is good, I am making tons of money, I decided I want to start a coin collection. It makes me happy but suddenly I lose my job, my wife leaves me, she gets half my money, I'm living out of a basement apartment and I can't make the rent. That once enjoyable collection has become an awesome investment I made during the course of my life that was good. It is a tangible asset and one that will get me out of squalor (sp).

As for slabs. They do serve their purpose. I don't often feel confident purchasing a raw coin on the internet. Pictures can be edited, not described correctly but at the very least a slab cannot be tampered with, (although that could be up for conjecture) If you grade most of your coins MS64 and want to complete your collection with a similarly graded coin, sight unseen, you know your getting an MS64
but I will say that I don't concern myself needing the supergraded set of coins. The number on the slab is not as important to me as to the look of the coin and if the coin is a good fit in my collection.

I'm not sure how to read you Truthteller... Are you throwing out some great/thought provoking messages which leads to these good discussions? or are you really that unhappy with customers and the way the hobby has evolved?

Take Care,
Dave

truthteller · February 1, 2003 3:17PM

Dave,

if you want a frank answer, PM me. In fact, all those who wish to find out why all the fuss, PM me, I guarantee a frank and stimulating answer.

TRUTH

smprfi · February 1, 2003 3:26PM

I collect because I like to.Grade isn't a major concern for most of my coins.When I sell it is because I have upgraded or found a nicer looking coin.I slab my coins to give my daughter better bargaining (pricing) power if she should decide to sell my collection when I pass away.
There are not many hobbies where you have to think of the past,present, and future when making a decision.This is something I feel people are taking for granted when they collect.

dakra · February 1, 2003 3:58PM

I'll bite...

dragon · February 1, 2003 4:23PM

Truth.

If you don't stop tellin' it like it is, you're gonna make some people angry here.

So now I suppose you're gonna tell me that when the plastic and registry revolution finally winds down, that all these PCGS PR70 Buffalo dollars won't be worth $2500.00 each anymore??? C'mon, get real!!

dragon

RegistryCoin · February 1, 2003 5:02PM

Since I was a kid-collector, 40 plus years ago, I guess I have always known there would be a pcgs registry, because I have always "bought the best that I could afford", as advised.

I won a YN award for my historical Benj. Franklin Display at 15y/o, at the Jack Tarr/ANA show in the seventies, but since I am a "pcgs registrant, I now have no appreciation for the history of a coin?
There was a point in time, where pcgs slabbed coins and didn't have a registry. Plenty of coins were slabbed without thoughts of a registry then. Can at least a few collectors slab their coins for protection, and preservation of their value?
Can we also choose the most solid way to preserve their value, without ridicule?
Is it possible to have a viable set of pcgs coins without an apples/oranges comparison to raw/anacs/ngc/icg coins?

oreville · February 1, 2003 5:15PM

Truth: I posted this in the other thread:

I have collected coins since 1960 when I was 7 years old. I do not think I knew how to spell profit back then let alone know how to spell it or even read it or best yet what it meant.

But since then every so often I got into things to make a "profit." But they were the exception.

Keep in mind that every collector has a duty to their family to make sure that they don't fritter their money away in coins that will go down 99% in value like the Enrons of the world. A minimum of respect for your hard earned money is proper and appropriate.

That is not missing the point of true collecting to temper your purchases with the reality that Enrons and Global Crossings lurk at every corner.

Some additional notes: There are a number of threads that contradict your hypothesis including one in which collectors such as myself, Outhaul, conder101, Dog97 and others are "researching" the quantity, origin and history of the NGC sample slabs. This has nothing to do about valuations, pop counts or even grades!!! If you look among the many threads, there are certainly enough collectors doing threads to discuss grading concepts, theory behind errors versus varieties, history of coins, history of slabs, ect. , etc. ....sure discussion of money and values creep in indeed but then after all aren't we collecting money....an oxymoron in itself?

Remember the old saying I heard many times.......... MANY COLLECTORS HEAR FROM THEIR SPOUSES...."COINS, COINS EVERYWHERE BUT NO MONEY TO SPEND!"

A little bit of rambling but par for the course for me.

oreville · February 1, 2003 5:45PM

I believe truth is not even talking about many of the posters in these PCGS threads...the fact that you are a PCGS (or NGC or whatever) poster means that you generally have an interest in the hobby in some other way other than strictly valuations, profits and pop counts.

The ones truth is possibly concerned about are the slab collectors of modern commems that can be seen lapping at every "unnamed" TV coin sales show???????? Yes, indeed those collectors are mostly clueless.

Perhaps some clarification is in order?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with discussing pops, valuation or prices as long as it is part of a bigger picture.

For example, wondercoin talks a lot about pops and changes in pops but his discussion of pops is part of a larger discussion about scarcity, rarity of certain coin issues and the history behind why and how these pops occurred. It is precisely the global discussion he tries to engage in for the purpose of determining WHAT the pops really are and what they will be in the future and WHY such pops are what they are. Such discussions often include examining when, why and how coins are saved, etc. in the past. Such analyisis is very interesting and we have engaged in most interesting exchange of ideas.

Sure, profits might be the end result of the research but keep in mind that the means to the ends in coin collecting is much more important to the collector than the ends themselves as many collectors just assume that the ends will just take care of themselves as historically, they have.

This important principal has traditionally allowed the collector to enjoy the freedom to enjoy the means to the ends unlike other pursuits such as investing of stocks, etc.

RegistryCoin · February 1, 2003 6:00PM

I, too, think Truth had a point.
Millions and millions of state quarter and modern commem. collectors could become thousands of good "coin collectors" and maybe hundreds of them will collect slabs, and a few of them will bother to notice the grade, and a couple of them will join us on these boards.
We are your audience.
I'm still looking for the real "truth" through all this stuff.

MrKelso · February 1, 2003 7:30PM

I collect Gold and Silver as a form of investment.

I collect Rare coins because i like them and because i found some space in the house that i needed to fill up.

barberlover · February 1, 2003 8:49PM

I missed the fatmans response after my post here, and would like to say something to his point. Fatman, your right, I like shiny round pieces of metal which are called mint state coins, but i liked them long before anyone ever heard of the the mint state grading scale between 60-70. My interest in them was not sparked by "the coin markt" or coin dealers, it was developed on my own because i like the look of certain coin series with all details showing and a full cartwheel to the luster and i hate hairlines and bagarks. So i plead guilty as charged. As far as mint state coins being shiny round pieces of metal, it could also be said that circulated coins are dull blah looking pieces of metal. The true value of a coin is determined buy the people who buy them when there not the latest "hot" coin. I sold my entire collection in 1989 because i was getting married and needed the money and i thought coin values for the coins i owned at that time were rediculusly high. I don't claim that i knew when the coin market was going to crumble, but i certainly beleaved that it would. When i got back in the hobby in 99, i thought that for the most part values on mint state type coins had hit bottom so i slowly started collecting again. Since that time some of my coins have continued to go down in value like my barber quarters, some of them have gone up, but the reason i baught them was because i like them and i determine what a coin is worth to me when i buy it [no market, no dealer, but me] if i like the coin and agree on price, the profit potential is not what makes my mind up for me. I think the high grade modern craze reminds me of 89 and sometime down the road they will tumble in value like tulip bulb mania, yet there is a strong and growing appreciation by collectors of mint state and proof type coins that is here to stay and the older collector coins of the early 20th century and before is not going to go away when the hype of high grade moderns die down. Collect what appeals to you because it appeals to you you.

dorkkarl · February 1, 2003 10:11PM

<< Imagine Eliasberg, Garrett, Norweb paying thousands more for a coin without a little bagmark. >>

yet it is amazing the quality of their collections - w/out all the amazing benefits of "slabs". norweb had 3 grades, circulated, uncirculated, & proof. yet it is astonishing the quality of coins that just happened to end up in his & her collections! it proves to me that if you truly love the hobby, & are willing to dedicate time & effort to it, you do not need slabs. the bottom line really is that simple.

K S

Many collectors miss the whole point of collecting.....

Comments

Leave a Comment