The #156 sold for $26,000. The highest 69 sold for $34,000. Even with the discount, they are still asking for a $10,000 profit. That would be a very decent flip IMO.
@Goldbully said:
Wow, I just got an offer to purchase a FH Au w/privy coin #156 in an eBay private offer.
Please don't tell anyone since this is a private offer, only for me. 🤫
Edited to add: Looking forward to the value of a PR69DCAM a year from now.
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
SERIOUSLY calls into question the veracity of the reported $50K sale. And, the seller is STILL being a pig, looking for a 50% markup in less than 2 weeks on something that cost $26K, as though they didn't already pay full retail, and as though seller fees are not the seller's problem.
@Goldminers said:
The #156 sold for $26,000. The highest 69 sold for $34,000. Even with the discount, they are still asking for a $10,000 profit. That would be a very decent flip IMO.
Do you know where you can get one cheaper?
Everyone keeps telling me how huge these are going to be. But now we're mocking sellers for thinking this is a hot item...
@Goldbully said:
Wow, I just got an offer to purchase a FH Au w/privy coin #156 in an eBay private offer.
Please don't tell anyone since this is a private offer, only for me. 🤫
Edited to add: Looking forward to the value of a PR69DCAM a year from now.
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
SERIOUSLY calls into question the veracity of the reported $50K sale. And, the seller is STILL being a pig, looking for a 50% markup in less than 2 weeks on something that cost $26K, as though they didn't already pay full retail, and as though seller fees are not the seller's problem.
I just flipped a $21000 comic that I bought in heritage on eBay for $23750. I don't think you can conclude that you can't flip them on eBay. It's just a question of price.
FWIW my total ebay fees on a $38,000 coin are $1100. No better venue.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
CAC Grading data. The silver privy still holding wholesale price guide value at $6,500 for 1,794 privy medals minted. The gold privy has 230 coins minted. The silver has 1,794/230 or 7.8 times more minted than the gold. The gold in PR70 is currently $41,000/$6,500 or 6.3 times the price guide value of the silver. CAC has graded and crossed over 10 of the gold privies and graded 70 of the silver privies; currently a 7:1 ratio.
Of course, this data can, and will be, interpreted or mis-interpreted by a few people all-different ways. I am just showing the numbers as they are currently posted.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
It was the obvious rejoinder to your previous post which again blamed the venue.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
Any avid coin collector and all of us here realize that the coins for your collection are where you find them. If a collector is seeking something that is not common, you can be assured they have their eyes on ebay. It is undeniably one of the top go-to places for coins of any price level. I'm sure you'll keep bagging on ebay but I'll argue all day long that it's just as viable and competitive as any other for high dollar coins. In fact I sold a $17,000 coin last month. Of course having 100% feedback and a high score helps.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
@wondercoin said:
‘’I came back to the show on Day 2 to submit to PCGS, so I settled for First Strike.
If I had submitted the coin on Day 1 after standing in line for over 2 hours, the Population would have been 11, I suppose. ☺️’’
That may (or may not) have been an expensive lesson. We will see.
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
It was the obvious rejoinder to your previous post which again blamed the venue.
And, yes, the price is lower due to the venue being the inappropriate one!
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
@NJCoin said:
"Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?"
Seriously, does asking $12,250 above their purchase price sound like they are desperately trying to sell? LOL.
If he asked $29,500 it would probably sell within 3 hours, too, and he would still make money, with aforementioned risks.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
But there's a difference on ebay between random seller with a new account and well established reputable dealers who operate on ebay. There's no reason to avoid sellers with solid records on ebay, and there's plenty of ebay buyer protection.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
The only other places you suggested are all auction houses. No flipper of these is going to turn around and let one rip at auction. Where else can you expect to RETAIL one of these? There's no place better than ebay.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one with an aggressive markup in how many days and counting now?
There, I fixed it for you. Some things take time to sell no matter what. Almost always the inability to sell something is directly proportional to the price being asked. The fact that these haven't sold just means they're asking too much.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
FVF on something like that is around $1200ish first of all. Second of all, they have no feedback at all over the past year, never heard of “pine tree numismatics”. I’d be surprised if they even have the coin in hand, or if they’re just trying to find a buyer first and source the coin afterwards.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
I could see the non-privey gold holding steady at the 4,500-5,500 level (for raw and graded versions) for some time then possibly advancing just like the "Bucking Horse" Liberty HR coin.
I do see the Gold Privey coins falling in value within a year, the hardest hit will be the 69's. Already seeing the flip for only a few thousand being tough.
We saw this coming. The "right" price for these was around $15k, stretching to maybe $20k. That's it.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
FVF on something like that is around $1200ish first of all. Second of all, they have no feedback at all over the past year, never heard of “pine tree numismatics”. I’d be surprised if they even have the coin in hand, or if they’re just trying to find a buyer first and source the coin afterwards.
Given that it's a specific coin #, they must either have the coin, or at least have access to it. Otherwise, the sale risks being busted if they later acquire a coin with a different # to complete the sale.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
@Goldminers said: @NJCoin said:
"Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?"
Seriously, does asking $12,250 above their purchase price sound like they are desperately trying to sell? LOL.
If he asked $29,500 it would probably sell within 3 hours, too, and he would still make money, with aforementioned risks.
No, but sending the hair on fire message to anyone who looked at it does. As does dropping the asking price by a whopping $6,750, or 15%, so shortly after listing, given how valuable the item is.
@coiner said:
I could see the non-privey gold holding steady at the 4,500-5,500 level (for raw and graded versions) for some time then possibly advancing just like the "Bucking Horse" Liberty HR coin.
I do see the Gold Privey coins falling in value within a year, the hardest hit will be the 69's. Already seeing the flip for only a few thousand being tough.
We saw this coming. The "right" price for these was around $15k, stretching to maybe $20k. That's it.
With all due respect, "we" didn't see anything coming. "You" were never anywhere close to $15K, let alone $20K, for 70s, let alone 69s.
Because they aren't part of a series, so will never approach the value of a V75 AGE in 70. Remember? $15-20K is just a little revisionist history now, after seeing every single one of them, 69 and 70, go for way more than 2x+ your highest revised estimates before the sale. Which, as I recall, started at around $6-9K, and bumped up to something like $9-12K after seeing some bids come in before the sale started.
All the difficulty flipping for "only a few thousand," which in actuality is around 50%, shows is that the coins were fully priced at auction. As I predicted they would be.
As to what is going to happen within the next year, no one knows. Not even me. 😀 But the inability to resell something at a profit that was purchased at full retail two weeks prior has no predictive value at all with respect to future pricing.
Given how few there are, and who the ultimate buyers were for the vast majority of them, the highest likelihood is that they stay right around where they are, since they probably found good homes. Just like you and @jmlanzaf backed away when you saw where they were closing, it is unlikely that a lot of them are in weak hands that will be dumping them if they can't be flipped.
The few that do hit the market in the near future will likely find buyers at levels similar to where SB was able to move 230 of them all at once. As to the future beyond that, no one really knows.
People could lose interest and move on. They could just as easily discover them and decide that their lives will not be complete without owning one.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which signals further price cuts for those willing to wait?
In any event, the listing is still alive and well at 4:09 EST on 12/25, nearly 48 hours after @Goldbully posted the enticing offer here for us to see. So, desperate or not, whatever the seller is doing is not working.
Not selling at $45K. Not selling at $38K. Not selling, in spite of the fact that "I'm making this offer once." We'll just have to see about that, won't we? 🤣
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which signals further price cuts for those willing to wait?
In any event, the listing is still alive and well at 4:09 EST on 12/25, nearly 48 hours after @Goldbully posted the enticing offer here for us to see. So, desperate or not, whatever the seller is doing is not working. Not selling at $45K. Not selling at $38K. Not selling.
Since Goldbully didn't accept the offer, it is hardly surprising that it is still for sale.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which signals further price cuts for those willing to wait?
In any event, the listing is still alive and well at 4:09 EST on 12/25, nearly 48 hours after @Goldbully posted the enticing offer here for us to see. So, desperate or not, whatever the seller is doing is not working. Not selling at $45K. Not selling at $38K. Not selling.
Since Goldbully didn't accept the offer, it is hardly surprising that it is still for sale.
🙄
Really? You think the offer was exclusive to @Goldbully, and wasn't extended to everyone who clicked on the listing, or at least added it to a watchlist?
If so, why does eBay excitedly announce "A few other interested buyers also received this offer -- it won't last long. Hurry and take advantage right away!" at the top of the offer "Because you showed interest in this item, the seller sent you this private offer."?
The bottom line is that nobody accepted the desperate offer, which is why "it is hardly surprising that it is still for sale." Just as the seller promised.
Good. I can't wait to see who blinks first. 🤣
Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, since, if the seller eventually accepts any offer, we'll likely never know the actual sale price.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which us to see. So, desperate
🙄
Really? You think the offer was exclusive to @Goldbully, and wasn't extended to everyone who clicked on the listing, or at least added it to a watchlist?
If so, why does eBay excitedly announce "A few other interested buyers also received this offer -- it won't last long. Hurry and take advantage right away!" at the top of the offer "Because you showed interest in this item, the seller sent you this private offer."?
That's not how offers work. It very well could have gone to more people, but it is not automatically sent to all viewers. You have a tendency to just fill in the blanks in your knowledge. As a data point, I had a comic with 180 views and a dozen watchers and when I sent an offer, it only went to 7 people. I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but we don't know how many people got it.
Edited to add: By the way, the offer always pretends multiple people got it even if i only send it to one person. They want you to think that you have to grab it before someone else does.
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which us to see. So, desperate
🙄
Really? You think the offer was exclusive to @Goldbully, and wasn't extended to everyone who clicked on the listing, or at least added it to a watchlist?
If so, why does eBay excitedly announce "A few other interested buyers also received this offer -- it won't last long. Hurry and take advantage right away!" at the top of the offer "Because you showed interest in this item, the seller sent you this private offer."?
That's not how offers work. It very well could have gone to more people, but it is not automatically sent to all viewers. You have a tendency to just fill in the blanks in your knowledge. As a data point, I had a comic with 180 views and a dozen watchers and when I sent an offer, it only went to 7 people. I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but we don't know how many people got it.
Edited to add: By the way, the offer always pretends multiple people got it even if i only send it to one person. They want you to think that you have to grab it before someone else does.
Thanks for filling in a few blanks for me. I do appreciate it.
You did not, however, answer my question regarding the language you use in your offers, and how it compares to what @Goldbully received.
Also, if you want to make a sale, why would you restrict how many people receive your offer? Because you're willing to discount for some folks, but not others, because their money is less green? 🤣
@wondercoin said:
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
@NJCoin said:
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which us to see. So, desperate
🙄
Really? You think the offer was exclusive to @Goldbully, and wasn't extended to everyone who clicked on the listing, or at least added it to a watchlist?
If so, why does eBay excitedly announce "A few other interested buyers also received this offer -- it won't last long. Hurry and take advantage right away!" at the top of the offer "Because you showed interest in this item, the seller sent you this private offer."?
That's not how offers work. It very well could have gone to more people, but it is not automatically sent to all viewers. You have a tendency to just fill in the blanks in your knowledge. As a data point, I had a comic with 180 views and a dozen watchers and when I sent an offer, it only went to 7 people. I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but we don't know how many people got it.
Edited to add: By the way, the offer always pretends multiple people got it even if i only send it to one person. They want you to think that you have to grab it before someone else does.
Thanks for filling in a few blanks for me. I do appreciate it.
You did not, however, answer my question regarding the language you use in your offers, and how it compares to what @Goldbully received.
Also, if you want to make a sale, why would you restrict how many people receive your offer? Because you're willing to discount for some folks, but not others, because their money is less green? 🤣
I don't restrict the offer. I don't even know who I'm sending it to. EBay restricts to whom I can send the offers.
By the way, I've been watching that auction for almost a day and have not received any offers.
I generally don't add much in the way of text to the offers because I send hundreds of offers and 95% of them don't result in a sale so it isn't worth the time. I did send an offer with a recent comp this week to someone who then bought the 24,000 comic I mentioned earlier, but that is unusual for me.
Comments
The #156 sold for $26,000. The highest 69 sold for $34,000. Even with the discount, they are still asking for a $10,000 profit. That would be a very decent flip IMO.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
There you go! As suspected, regardless of what the actual value is, eBay is NOT the venue for a profitable quick flip of something like this procured from some place like SB.
SERIOUSLY calls into question the veracity of the reported $50K sale. And, the seller is STILL being a pig, looking for a 50% markup in less than 2 weeks on something that cost $26K, as though they didn't already pay full retail, and as though seller fees are not the seller's problem.
Do you know where you can get one cheaper?
Everyone keeps telling me how huge these are going to be. But now we're mocking sellers for thinking this is a hot item...
I just flipped a $21000 comic that I bought in heritage on eBay for $23750. I don't think you can conclude that you can't flip them on eBay. It's just a question of price.
FWIW my total ebay fees on a $38,000 coin are $1100. No better venue.
What venue would be? It's probably the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find. The ebay listings are very likely to come up in Google search results. How many dealers are active acquiring inventory on ebay or check ebay for coins to place with their customers? Probably tons. How many listings have been taken down and due to an off-site deal?
GC. HA. SB. With all due respect to @jmlanzaf, I'd never trust eBay with a 5 figure transaction, either as a buyer or a seller, given all the sketchy things that seem to take place there on a regular basis.
Obviously, YMMV. But SB is certainly not "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." And yet, to the great shock and amazement of several of our esteemed members, they managed to move 230 nearly identical items for the US Mint in a few short hours, grossing $8.23 Million.
If eBay was the ideal venue for these, why do you think the Mint didn't just dribble them out, either all at once or a few at time, on eBay? Probably because their net would have been a lot closer to the $6-12K each many of the experts here predicted if they had done so.
People thinking they were emulating what @jmlanzaf did with his comic book by scooping these up at $25-35K each on SB, thinking they were pulling off a "retail arbitrage," are about to learn the hard way that there is no such thing with such an expensive, widely publicized sale. People who wanted them knew just where to find them on December 12th.
Absolutely no one needs to pay a 50%+ markup to buy them a few weeks later at "the place with the widest reach and publicity you can find." Sure, eBay is very well known and widely available to anyone with an internet connection. So is Walmart, but Walmart is not the place most people think of when thinking of making mid 5 figure purchases. Which is probably why most luxury consumer goods are not sold through them, despite their wide footprint in the US.
CAC Grading data. The silver privy still holding wholesale price guide value at $6,500 for 1,794 privy medals minted. The gold privy has 230 coins minted. The silver has 1,794/230 or 7.8 times more minted than the gold. The gold in PR70 is currently $41,000/$6,500 or 6.3 times the price guide value of the silver. CAC has graded and crossed over 10 of the gold privies and graded 70 of the silver privies; currently a 7:1 ratio.
Of course, this data can, and will be, interpreted or mis-interpreted
by a few people all-different ways. I am just showing the numbers as they are currently posted.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Regardless of your preferences, lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
Understood. Which is why I prefaced my post by saying "with all due respect" to you.
If that holds true in this case, the seller soliciting @Goldbully should be getting slammed with acceptances, given how modestly they are now pricing their offer above the highest result achieved in the SB auction, after taking into account their seller fees and the fact that the Mint will never be auctioning 230 of these at one time and one place ever again. Since lots of 5 figure coins sell on eBay all the time.
I'm not sure that's the right price. Failure to have an offer accepted is usually about the price not the fact that the coin is on eBay... at any $ value.
Of course. Thanks for stating the obvious. The fact is that the seller paid $26K for the coin at SB, and will probably be lucky to get that, after fees, on eBay, while other 69s went for more at SB.
You do love to argue, and I am always thrilled to engage. If eBay was the right venue for items like this, there would be no GC, let alone HA or SB. It's ALWAYS about price. If you can get a higher price on one venue versus another, that's what makes it about the venue.
You can, should and will do you. Me too. I happen to think eBay is too sketchy to trust 5 figure transactions to, whereas I don't feel the same way about GC, HA or SB.
While there is obviously a market on eBay for expensive items, I doubt that I am alone in my feelings. If true, that makes eBay a less than ideal venue for things like this. Which is but one reason the retail arbitrageurs are having a difficult time with these.
It was the obvious rejoinder to your previous post which again blamed the venue.
My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.
The eBay fees are significantly lower than all the other venues that you mention, especially with a store. The total selling price at auction might be higher elsewhere, but the net to the seller after fees may not be any better at all.
JM keeps reminding you that eBay fees are actually quite low and the current problem for the arbitrageurs is not the venue, but their high asking prices and I agree with him.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Any avid coin collector and all of us here realize that the coins for your collection are where you find them. If a collector is seeking something that is not common, you can be assured they have their eyes on ebay. It is undeniably one of the top go-to places for coins of any price level. I'm sure you'll keep bagging on ebay but I'll argue all day long that it's just as viable and competitive as any other for high dollar coins. In fact I sold a $17,000 coin last month. Of course having 100% feedback and a high score helps.
I think so too.
5 days to go..............
Current bid: $4,751
GC Link
‘’My guess is if the seller asked $33,000 or $34,000 BIN, they would sell it on eBay just fine and make a nice profit.’’
What’s the profit % when the “2” rated buyer (hypothetically) claims he opened the box and inside was an entirely different coin worth next to nothing and reverses his credit card payment on you (for which there is a high probability the seller loses the case).
I’ve been selling on eBay now for 25+ years and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in h-ll I would ever consider selling a $50,000 coin under current eBay terms and conditions. If others want to take that chance, more power to them!!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
And, yes, the price is lower due to the venue being the inappropriate one!
Which is all well and good. My point is simply that, as a buyer of something this expensive, I'd be far more comfortable dealing with a reputable auction house than with whoever is on the other side of an eBay transaction. Same thing as a seller.
Now, obviously, people can and do engage in high dollar value transactions on eBay. I just don't think it's the right place for something like this, even if your fees as a seller are lower.
You usually get what you pay for. Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?
This ^^^^ is exactly what I'm talking about!!! Not to say things don't move. Just sayin' it's not the right place, and sellers likely lose a lot more than they make up for with a lower seller fee. Due not only the the occasional fraud, but also to prospective buyers like me sticking to more reputable and established platforms like GC, HA and SB for high value items.
@NJCoin said:
"Sellers desperately reaching out to prospective buyers only proves my point. The Mint had no problem moving 230 units in less than 3 hours. This seller can't move one in how many days and counting now?"
Seriously, does asking $12,250 above their purchase price sound like they are desperately trying to sell? LOL.
If he asked $29,500 it would probably sell within 3 hours, too, and he would still make money, with aforementioned risks.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
But there's a difference on ebay between random seller with a new account and well established reputable dealers who operate on ebay. There's no reason to avoid sellers with solid records on ebay, and there's plenty of ebay buyer protection.
The only other places you suggested are all auction houses. No flipper of these is going to turn around and let one rip at auction. Where else can you expect to RETAIL one of these? There's no place better than ebay.
There, I fixed it for you. Some things take time to sell no matter what. Almost always the inability to sell something is directly proportional to the price being asked. The fact that these haven't sold just means they're asking too much.
I wait to see what these Gold PRIVEY's bring early next year.
Actually, this is the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. You're saying that the BUYER wouldn't want to do the deal. Wondercoin is saying that the SELLER wouldn't want to do the deal.
Actually I already, very clearly, said I wouldn't do it on eBay on either side.
NJcoin and Jmlanzaf should get a room.
did the non-privy keep going up like the privy?
I don't think either one of them has kept going up...
I reach out to prospective buyers every day. So does Heritage, Stacks, GC and just about every major coin seller. It's about sales not desperation.
If you say so. I've never received a message from you, and communications I've received from the major auction houses have been solicitations to give them consignments, not to buy, so I don't know for sure whether or not your or their communications are "desperate." But I do know that this one is:
FVF on something like that is around $1200ish first of all. Second of all, they have no feedback at all over the past year, never heard of “pine tree numismatics”. I’d be surprised if they even have the coin in hand, or if they’re just trying to find a buyer first and source the coin afterwards.
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You are clearly not an active buyer. I get emails from Heritage, Stacks and GC every week showing me coins that i "might be interested in".
I can't send random people offers their eBay but I can send offers to people watching my coins or, sometimes, looking at my coins. And I do.
Here's this week's "desperate offers"
Merry Christmas to everyone who has contributed to this thread! And to all of you who make CU Forums a great place to learn about numismatics.
We might have our differences but I believe we're all here to have fun and enjoy this great hobby. 😀
I could see the non-privey gold holding steady at the 4,500-5,500 level (for raw and graded versions) for some time then possibly advancing just like the "Bucking Horse" Liberty HR coin.
I do see the Gold Privey coins falling in value within a year, the hardest hit will be the 69's. Already seeing the flip for only a few thousand being tough.
We saw this coming. The "right" price for these was around $15k, stretching to maybe $20k. That's it.
And thats 15-20k for a 70.
Today is also the start of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, and a good time to enjoy chocolate coins!
This is one of only 4 times since 1900 that both of these Holidays start on the same day so Happy Holidays to all.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Given that it's a specific coin #, they must either have the coin, or at least have access to it. Otherwise, the sale risks being busted if they later acquire a coin with a different # to complete the sale.
Great!! The "desperate offers" you show as examples are merely offers, not "desperate" ones.
OTOH, the offer @Goldbully posted does indeed smack of desperation. At least to me.
"I'm making this offer once." 🤣🤣🤣
"Otherwise I'm just leaving it up indefinitely." 🤣🤣🤣
"I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." 🤣🤣🤣
When I read it, it reminded me of Cleavon Little's threats in Blazing Saddles to kill himself if the crowd threatening him didn't back off.
"I'm only going to make this terrific offer once, and, if no one accepts it, I'm going to keep trying to sell the coin until someone buys it. Maybe at a lower price, maybe not." 🤣🤣🤣
Very compelling, and, at least to me, smacking of foolish desperation in an attempt to create a sense of urgency to give the seller a 50% premium to what they paid for a $26K coin two long weeks ago. Because it's one of only 230, and if you don't act NOW, you might never again have the opportunity to give them a score. 🤣🤣🤣
Compare it to whatever normal offers you want. This is a desperate one. If you can't bring yourself to ever agree with me, once again we'll just have to agree to disagree. Merry Christmas!!!
No, but sending the hair on fire message to anyone who looked at it does. As does dropping the asking price by a whopping $6,750, or 15%, so shortly after listing, given how valuable the item is.
With all due respect, "we" didn't see anything coming. "You" were never anywhere close to $15K, let alone $20K, for 70s, let alone 69s.
Because they aren't part of a series, so will never approach the value of a V75 AGE in 70. Remember? $15-20K is just a little revisionist history now, after seeing every single one of them, 69 and 70, go for way more than 2x+ your highest revised estimates before the sale. Which, as I recall, started at around $6-9K, and bumped up to something like $9-12K after seeing some bids come in before the sale started.
All the difficulty flipping for "only a few thousand," which in actuality is around 50%, shows is that the coins were fully priced at auction. As I predicted they would be.
As to what is going to happen within the next year, no one knows. Not even me. 😀 But the inability to resell something at a profit that was purchased at full retail two weeks prior has no predictive value at all with respect to future pricing.
Given how few there are, and who the ultimate buyers were for the vast majority of them, the highest likelihood is that they stay right around where they are, since they probably found good homes. Just like you and @jmlanzaf backed away when you saw where they were closing, it is unlikely that a lot of them are in weak hands that will be dumping them if they can't be flipped.
The few that do hit the market in the near future will likely find buyers at levels similar to where SB was able to move 230 of them all at once. As to the future beyond that, no one really knows.
People could lose interest and move on. They could just as easily discover them and decide that their lives will not be complete without owning one.
On their face, the statements from the seller project strength and strong hands. Any desperation is concocted in your head, but that is a trend with you. Had I bought one to keep, I still may have thrown it up on ebay for a few weeks just to see if I could make quick profit so that could be what these other sellers are doing too. Except coinaddicts and some other who are known dealer/flippers.
The mint should do a 2025 reverse proof version next year to keep the ball rolling, right now almost nothing on the mint schedule of interest.
njcoin people who pay 25k for a coin aren't desperate. Desperate is what you see going into Walmart holding up signs.
Agree to disagree. Strength is just leaving the listing up, without saying anything or reaching out to anyone with a 15% discount and an admonition that it's a one time only offer, and to act now before it's too late.
Weakness is listing it right away, at a stupid premium, and then dropping the price almost instantly, but for a limited time only, with the caveat that "I don't know if you'll see a lower offer as low than this." Because I'm reasonably sure a 69 will become available at some point in the future for far less than $38,250.
Asking for the moon and being willing to settle for less is not, in my mind, a sign of strength. Reaching out to anyone who looked at the listing with stupid threats about what they are going to with the coin if it is not sold at the "one time only offer," comparisons to the most expensive example sold at auction (at a 30% premium to the purchase price of the item being offered), and then insisting how a 12.5% premium to the most expensive one (and a 50% premium to the purchase price of the coin actually being offered) is a great deal, because the seller has inflated, fictitious selling costs, is to me an extreme sign of weakness, desperation and plain old foolishness.
As if someone with the means and desire to drop $40K+ one a coin like this lacks any common sense or general awareness of the market. The seller wants to get out at a profit now, out of fear @coiner might be right. The fact that they are being a pig while trying to do so is not a sign of strength.
Only stupidity. And weakness. Because, as in real estate, pricing something unrealistically high, and then being forced to drop the price as the listing ages, is absolutely a bad strategy, and a sign of weakness and distress that typically only causes prospective buyers to await further price drops, rather than inducing the desired call to action before the item disappears forever.
YMMV, but the threat to leave the listing up indefinitely if the offer was not accepted was an empty threat that would only hurt the seller. Just like Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles.
A "desperate" offer would be open to negotiation or closer to break even. There is nothing desperate about making an offer to an INTERESTED party at $12000 over purchase price.
If you say so. Exploding offers with a threat to keep trying to sell the item if it does not sell smells very desperate to me. The fact that the seller is being a piggie while doing it does not make it any less desperate. Just less likely to result in a sale.
Listing at $45K was clearly a mistake. Dropping that by 15% in a matter of days, while still representing a significant profit (assuming any sucker bites), reeks of desperation. As will the next price drop when it inevitably comes, because this seller clearly is not strong, and is not willing to sit and wait for the market to come to them.
It is the significant, quick price drop, plus the tone and language used in the offer, that makes it desperate in my eyes. You are just focusing on the price, and the fact that the seller has not yet accepted reality, to conclude that they are not desperate.
"Not desperate" to me would mean leaving the listing as-is, or pulling it altogether if you cannot get your price. Not big price drops accompanied by explosive language.
To me, that reeks of desperation. Albeit desperation to make a 45% score. I'm not sure why you apparently believe unreasonable optimism with respect to pricing is mutually exclusive with desperation to make a sale, because it is not.
As evidenced, not by the fact that follow-up offers were made, but the language embodied in those offers. Have you ever used such language in an attempt to provoke a sale? If not, why not? Because it would be more likely to provoke snickers than a sale, as is the case here? And maybe because it would reek of desperation, which signals further price cuts for those willing to wait?
In any event, the listing is still alive and well at 4:09 EST on 12/25, nearly 48 hours after @Goldbully posted the enticing offer here for us to see. So, desperate or not, whatever the seller is doing is not working.
Not selling at $45K. Not selling at $38K. Not selling, in spite of the fact that "I'm making this offer once." We'll just have to see about that, won't we? 🤣
Since Goldbully didn't accept the offer, it is hardly surprising that it is still for sale.
🙄
Really? You think the offer was exclusive to @Goldbully, and wasn't extended to everyone who clicked on the listing, or at least added it to a watchlist?
If so, why does eBay excitedly announce "A few other interested buyers also received this offer -- it won't last long. Hurry and take advantage right away!" at the top of the offer "Because you showed interest in this item, the seller sent you this private offer."?
The bottom line is that nobody accepted the desperate offer, which is why "it is hardly surprising that it is still for sale." Just as the seller promised.
Good. I can't wait to see who blinks first. 🤣
Unfortunately, we'll likely never know, since, if the seller eventually accepts any offer, we'll likely never know the actual sale price.
That's not how offers work. It very well could have gone to more people, but it is not automatically sent to all viewers. You have a tendency to just fill in the blanks in your knowledge. As a data point, I had a comic with 180 views and a dozen watchers and when I sent an offer, it only went to 7 people. I'm not sure what the algorithm is, but we don't know how many people got it.
Edited to add: By the way, the offer always pretends multiple people got it even if i only send it to one person. They want you to think that you have to grab it before someone else does.
Thanks for filling in a few blanks for me. I do appreciate it.
You did not, however, answer my question regarding the language you use in your offers, and how it compares to what @Goldbully received.
Also, if you want to make a sale, why would you restrict how many people receive your offer? Because you're willing to discount for some folks, but not others, because their money is less green? 🤣
I don't restrict the offer. I don't even know who I'm sending it to. EBay restricts to whom I can send the offers.
By the way, I've been watching that auction for almost a day and have not received any offers.
I generally don't add much in the way of text to the offers because I send hundreds of offers and 95% of them don't result in a sale so it isn't worth the time. I did send an offer with a recent comp this week to someone who then bought the 24,000 comic I mentioned earlier, but that is unusual for me.