Is Judd 1776 Indeed The Most Valuable US Coin?

Walkerlover · June 5, 2024 5:41PM

Some experts have stated Judd 1776 is the most valuable and important US coin. Based on 1) Unique 2) Tied to President Roosevelt 3) Large $20 Proof Coin In Exceptional Condition 4) Indian Portrait On A large $20 coin. 2 Sided Image Of The Indian And Saint Gaudens On The Reverse. There maybe other reasons not coming to mind. Estimated to surpass the $20 million of the 1933 $20 gold coin of which 10 or more exist. In a private collection since 1985 of a collector of magnificent Saint Gaudens works. Care to Agree Or Disagree.

DeplorableDan · June 5, 2024 5:44PM

If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

Walkerlover · June 5, 2024 5:47PM

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

Never will come to market though. The Judd piece maybe eventually.

MFeld · June 5, 2024 5:49PM

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

DeplorableDan · June 5, 2024 5:52PM

@Walkerlover said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

Never will come to market though. The Judd piece maybe eventually.

In that case, I would say yes to J-1776. The EB on breast Brasher is probably close but the fact that J-1776 is big and pretty and high grade should put it over the top.

PerryHall · June 5, 2024 5:55PM

The $50 gold Half Union at least deserves an honorable mention.

WCC · June 5, 2024 5:57PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@Walkerlover said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

Never will come to market though. The Judd piece maybe eventually.

In that case, I would say yes to J-1776. The EB on breast Brasher is probably close but the fact that J-1776 is big and pretty and high grade should put it over the top.

My opinion too on J-1776 if correct, because of the potential grade difference.

I'd rank the 1849 $20 first myself.

I'd rank the Brasher doubloon somewhat lower though consider it at least equally significant. Technically not a US coin though.

WCC · June 5, 2024 5:59PM

@PerryHall said:
The $50 gold Half Union at least deserves an honorable mention.

Yes, based upon the estimated values in the "PCGS Million Dollar Club" last I checked.

I still prefer the Garret slug proof which was estimated at $2.5MM last I checked.

DeplorableDan · June 5, 2024 6:02PM

@WCC said:

@PerryHall said:
The $50 gold Half Union at least deserves an honorable mention.

Yes, based upon the estimated values in the "PCGS Million Dollar Club" last I checked.

I still prefer the Garret slug proof which was estimated at $2.5MM last I checked.

Agree, the Garrett Proof Slug is my #1 favorite coin of all time. Triple or quadruple that figure, though.

Connecticoin · June 5, 2024 6:05PM

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Would a second 1849 $20 be legal to own if it surfaced?

WCC · June 5, 2024 6:08PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@WCC said:

@PerryHall said:
The $50 gold Half Union at least deserves an honorable mention.

Yes, based upon the estimated values in the "PCGS Million Dollar Club" last I checked.

I still prefer the Garret slug proof which was estimated at $2.5MM last I checked.

Agree, the Garrett Proof Slug is my #1 favorite coin of all time. Triple or quadruple that figure, though.

I definitely recall seeing a $2.5MM estimated value before but have no idea why it was so low.

Your estimate is more reasonable.

MFeld · June 5, 2024 6:09PM

@Connecticoin said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Would a second 1849 $20 be legal to own if it surfaced?

I believe it would.

DeplorableDan · June 5, 2024 6:16PM

@WCC said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@WCC said:

@PerryHall said:
The $50 gold Half Union at least deserves an honorable mention.

Yes, based upon the estimated values in the "PCGS Million Dollar Club" last I checked.

I still prefer the Garret slug proof which was estimated at $2.5MM last I checked.

Agree, the Garrett Proof Slug is my #1 favorite coin of all time. Triple or quadruple that figure, though.

I definitely recall seeing a $2.5MM estimated value before but have no idea why it was so low.

Your estimate is more reasonable.

Yea 2.5 is absurdly low, the coin sold for 500k all the way back in 1980.

291fifth · June 5, 2024 6:22PM

Scrooge McDuck uses the missing 1849 $20 as a pocket piece.

Omegaraptor · June 5, 2024 6:43PM

Wonder how much the 1849 Templeton Reid $25 would be worth if it ever surfaced.

breakdown · June 5, 2024 10:05PM

1822 half eagle. A coin made for circulation that apparently circulated. With two lesser sisters tied up in the Smithsonian, the Pogue coin is my pick.

ReadyFireAim · June 6, 2024 1:21AM

@Walkerlover said:
Some experts have stated Judd 1776 is the most valuable and important US coin.
Care to Agree Or Disagree.

It was shot down for good reason. The young, effeminate boy in a chief's headdress appears weird.
I prefer the low relief series 3 (Barber redesign) $20 over it for looks.
I'll go with the 1933 as the most important & valuable coin.
The J1776 is just an odd curiosity that nobody has seen for awhile.

wondercoin · June 6, 2024 1:27AM

JUDD 2164 is probably worth “a hair more” than JUDD 1776, but it is close!! 😉

Wondercoin.

Rexford · June 6, 2024 1:35AM

@breakdown said:
1822 half eagle. A coin made for circulation that apparently circulated. With two lesser sisters tied up in the Smithsonian, the Pogue coin is my pick.

It already sold in 2021, and for less than half of the price of the 1933 $20, so that cannot be the answer.

Boosibri · June 6, 2024 5:49AM

A related thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12882877#Comment_12882877

mr1931S · June 6, 2024 8:08AM

@breakdown said:
1822 half eagle. A coin made for circulation that apparently circulated. With two lesser sisters tied up in the Smithsonian, the Pogue coin is my pick.

Good choice. Interesting word, "coin." The only 1933 Double Eagle that is legal to own is my choice for most valuable US coin.

Are pattern pieces considered coins now?

PerryHall · June 6, 2024 8:15AM

@mr1931S said:
Are pattern pieces considered coins now?

Good question. Patterns were never monetized so are they technically actual coins?

Boosibri · June 6, 2024 8:16AM

@wondercoin said:
JUDD 2164 is probably worth “a hair more” than JUDD 1776, but it is close!! 😉

Wondercoin.

I’d be surprised if a pattern Ike Dollar is worth more than the J-1776

wondercoin · June 6, 2024 8:55AM

‘’I’d be surprised if a pattern Ike Dollar is worth more than the J-1776’’

Me too. But, I recently learned I can price at 5x-10x the value of my coin and most everyone is OK with it! 😉

Wondercoin

wondercoin · June 6, 2024 9:12AM

‘’Good question. Patterns were never monetized so are they technically actual coins?’’

Were Bitcoin tokens monetized? I have heard they are the highest “coin” sales in history- yes?

Wondercoin

breakdown · June 6, 2024 10:02AM

@Rexford said:

@breakdown said:
1822 half eagle. A coin made for circulation that apparently circulated. With two lesser sisters tied up in the Smithsonian, the Pogue coin is my pick.

It already sold in 2021, and for less than half of the price of the 1933 $20, so that cannot be the answer.

Thanks, Rexford. I am aware of the sale but still like my choice. The 1822 HE is undoubtedly a coin. It circulated and may have even been spent to buy something.
The Pogues certainly valued it.

golden · June 6, 2024 10:12AM

J-1776 all day long!

oih82w8 · June 6, 2024 10:13AM

This pattern would be a great @dcarr production piece...with a little tweaking to distinguish from the original.

WCC · June 6, 2024 10:48AM

@breakdown said:

@Rexford said:

@breakdown said:
1822 half eagle. A coin made for circulation that apparently circulated. With two lesser sisters tied up in the Smithsonian, the Pogue coin is my pick.

It already sold in 2021, and for less than half of the price of the 1933 $20, so that cannot be the answer.

Thanks, Rexford. I am aware of the sale but still like my choice. The 1822 HE is undoubtedly a coin. It circulated and may have even been spent to buy something.
The Pogues certainly valued it.

It's my #1 US issued for circulation coin too, though I know the grade and coin size mean it likely won't ever rank first for value.

MrEureka · June 6, 2024 10:52AM

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

messydesk · June 6, 2024 10:54AM

The difference between "likely" and "indeed" the most valuable coin is a sale establishing value.

MFeld · June 6, 2024 10:55AM

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

MrEureka · June 6, 2024 11:15AM

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

keyman64 · June 6, 2024 2:55PM

My vote would be with J-1776

Relaxn · June 6, 2024 3:54PM

Please do not leave out my super rare Masonic lincoln made directly by the level 37 mint director...

FlyingAl · June 6, 2024 4:13PM

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

MFeld · June 6, 2024 4:53PM

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

FlyingAl · June 6, 2024 5:14PM

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

Mark, have you personally seen the coin?

tradedollarnut · June 6, 2024 7:45PM

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

Yup

JimTyler · June 6, 2024 8:01PM

Was that coin messed with or does the Indian have acne

Walkerlover · June 6, 2024 10:57PM

@JimTyler said:
Was that coin messed with or does the Indian have acne

Are you joking?

GoBust · June 7, 2024 10:19AM

I'd guess the first dollar ever made, lovely flowing hair, stars not yet invented, and the trillions of dollars made since. But it was the first dollar so that's something. Very undervalued by at least a factor of 100x (using wondercoins' logic on coins that we own which I agree with in this instance)....

MFeld · June 7, 2024 10:41AM

@GoBust said:
I'd guess the first dollar ever made, lovely flowing hair, stars not yet invented, and the trillions of dollars made since. But it was the first dollar so that's something. Very undervalued by at least a factor of 100x (using wondercoins' logic on coins that we own which I agree with in this instance)....

I don’t think it’s known which dollar was the first one ever made.

Nic · June 7, 2024 10:41AM

@tradedollarnut said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

Yup

This thread is growing legs.

MrEureka · June 7, 2024 11:25AM

@MFeld said:

@GoBust said:
I'd guess the first dollar ever made, lovely flowing hair, stars not yet invented, and the trillions of dollars made since. But it was the first dollar so that's something. Very undervalued by at least a factor of 100x (using wondercoins' logic on coins that we own which I agree with in this instance)....

I don’t think it’s known which dollar was the first one ever made.

The unique J-18 is a pretty safe bet.

MrEureka · June 7, 2024 11:28AM

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

AFAIK, the coin is not in Connecticut.

CaptHenway · June 7, 2024 1:29PM

I could see a modern day Eliasberg with a complete set of $20 Saints 1907-1932 throwing caution to the winds to get that one legal 1933.
There was one amazing set of gold patterns that was broken up long ago and never reassembled. Until somebody does attempt that, I cannot see the J-1776 selling for more than the one legal 1933.
MOO

MFeld · June 7, 2024 3:17PM

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

Mark, have you personally seen the coin?

Alex, I haven’t seen it - I don’t even know if it exists.
However, if I had seen it, I don’t think I’d reply to your question. Because a reply of “yes” would lead to additional questions, which I wouldn’t be at liberty to answer.

MrEureka · June 7, 2024 3:26PM

@JimTyler said:
Was that coin messed with or does the Indian have acne

The face does have an unusual texture, but it’s 100% as made.

Barberian · June 7, 2024 3:36PM

@Walkerlover said:

@JimTyler said:
Was that coin messed with or does the Indian have acne

Are you joking?

I'm not.

It's a dermatologist's dream coin. A benzoyl peroxide special

FlyingAl · June 7, 2024 4:12PM

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MFeld said:

@FlyingAl said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@MrEureka said:

@MFeld said:

@DeplorableDan said:
If we’re playing hypotheticals, would we then have to consider the 1849 $20 at the Smithsonian?

We wouldn’t have to but we should.😉 And don’t forget the possibility of a rumored additional 1849 $20 surfacing some day.
Still, I’d go with J-1776.

Don't give up on the 1849. The rumor I heard was pretty convincing
.

Let's hear about it - please?

Let's just say that if the rumor was correct, neither one of us is getting the coin anytime soon.

This statement feels rather Connecticut-ish in nature.

That was my first thought, and my subsequent one.

Mark, have you personally seen the coin?

Alex, I haven’t seen it - I don’t even know if it exists.
However, if I had seen it, I don’t think I’d reply to your question. Because a reply of “yes” would lead to additional questions, which I wouldn’t be at liberty to answer.

Mark, sorry I should have clarified. I was referring to J-1776.

Is Judd 1776 Indeed The Most Valuable US Coin?

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