The uncirculated coins are on sale
July 11. The product schedule linked page shows no mintage and HHL 3
While the subscription linked page shows mintage 275,000 with HHL 25.
As usual “The mint is like a box of chocolates.” 🫤
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Why not? That's exactly how many they offered last year, and you cannot buy one today directly from them.
Seems about right to me. As interest inevitably wanes, mintages will be adjusted accordingly.
In the meantime, expecting them to leave money on the table by preemptively reducing mintages in order to create a higher probability of a profitable flip for us is simply unreasonable, given how they are now running things more like a business and less like a giveaway for those of us who know what to look for, and how to manipulate their ordering system.
HHL of 25 is reasonable for us right now, given how many they want to push out the door. HHL of 3 is reasonable for release day, given how relatively few they expect to have available on that date.
No harm, since HHLs will be lifted the day after, at which point they will either sell out or they won't. Either way, the Mint is going to be selling a lot of silver at $76 per ounce. Maybe even more if the price keeps going up.
I'm not interested in the Morgan or peace dollar sets. But I do wonder how long until we get people posting this $1,000,000 error they just acquired.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Admittedly, I do not know how quickly these sold. But, the Mint was able to sell over 99.5% of the available mintage. So, from their perspective, there was no oversupply (i.e., the market absorbed nearly all that they produced).
If one HHL is for subscriptions and another for release date that is new to me. Anyway TBD. 😲 As for most being sold. It is the big boys who backed up the truck and still have a large inventory to sell and some at very little mark up. Even the tv sellers have reduced prices to unload their overstock. The mint killed the flip for the fleabay sellers. And lower demand is slowly killing the flip for the big boys.They will eventually realize there is not enough demand for the effort.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I bought a 2021 peace dollar because of the 21 in the date, and I bought a 2023 peace dollar proof out of morbid curiosity. I'm good with just those 2.
@fathom said:
You see the quote "nobody even wants the 23s".
So let's lobby the legislation to account for gluts on the market and pull back production. Preserves value and interest.
Groundhog day.
No. I only see that the Mint sold 275K of each flavor. So, once upon a time, someone wanted them. And that's what the Mint is looking at when deciding whether or not to continue the program, and how to set the mintages.
@fathom said:
You see the quote "nobody even wants the 23s".
So let's lobby the legislation to account for gluts on the market and pull back production. Preserves value and interest.
Groundhog day.
No. I only see that the Mint sold 275K of each flavor. So, once upon a time, someone wanted them. And that's what the Mint is looking at when deciding whether or not to continue the program, and how to set the mintages.
You mean they aren't catering to the needs of the people who don't want to buy them? Shocking.
@HATTRICK said:
If one HHL is for subscriptions and another for release date that is new to me. Anyway TBD. 😲 As for most being sold. It is the big boys who backed up the truck and still have a large inventory to sell and some at very little mark up. Even the tv sellers have reduced prices to unload their overstock. The mint killed the flip for the fleabay sellers. And lower demand is slowly killing the flip for the big boys.They will eventually realize there is not enough demand for the effort.
These are very popular designs, and there is plenty of demand. Maybe not for almost 2 million coins, spread across a few different flavors, at 4x spot, but they'll adjust mintages as they go.
No one liquidating excess stock now got hurt, given how much they had to have made on what they initially sold. I still don't see anything being sold below their cost, so there is not yet a fire sale.
The only thing for certain is that there is plenty of demand for the effort. The Big Boys have systemic advantages over the rest of us when it comes to flipping, and the Mint has finally figured out how the squeeze the lion's share of profit for themselves, leaving the rest for their Big Boy best customers offering 70-graded examples at prices far below what the rest of us could achieve on our own, and ending the easy profit game for those of us here who thought they discovered fire by recognizing what would be popular, under produced and under priced, and then creating multiple accounts to circumvent order limits and make fast, almost guaranteed money flipping.
That game is now over, but it hardly means that a program that produces almost 2 million coins at a 300%+ markup for the federal government is a failure. Even if mintages settle at half of what they are now. I am reasonably certain there will be significant demand for these coins, at significant premiums to spot, for as long as the Mint wants to produce them.
People who want OGP product can now get whatever they want directly from the Mint, at the price that the market will bear. It's a better deal for people previously forced to buy on the secondary market. Not so much for us. With respect to graded coins, now that we cannot buy from the Mint below market, we cannot have them graded at retail for less than dealers sell them for, so that game is also over.
Doesn't mean the program is dead. Just means we are now buying graded coins from dealers, and not getting OGP at better prices than anyone else. Oh, and flipping new issues from the Mint is no longer a substitute for having a day job.
@fathom said:
You see the quote "nobody even wants the 23s".
So let's lobby the legislation to account for gluts on the market and pull back production. Preserves value and interest.
Groundhog day.
No. I only see that the Mint sold 275K of each flavor. So, once upon a time, someone wanted them. And that's what the Mint is looking at when deciding whether or not to continue the program, and how to set the mintages.
You mean they aren't catering to the needs of the people who don't want to buy them? Shocking.
Excellent observation! Yes, the point of those pooping on them here is that they have no interest because the Mint has priced and produced the easy flip out of existence.
What people miss was that easy flips for us was never their objective. It took a sharpie like Ryder to get in there and realize what they were leaving on the table to move them away from the mentality of being happy making a little and leaving the rest for us and the Big Boys.
It simply isn't true that "nobody even wants the 23s." Almost 2 million have been sold, with the vast majority placed in the hands of collectors. If dealers were signaling to them that wouldn't be able to move another 275K of each of these, mintages would have been reduced.
If they are being overly optimistic, it won't be the end of the world. The Mint won't produce 550K coins until they are sold, and, if demand tanks, mintages will be reduced going forward.
@Crypto said:
I’ll buy them because they are far and away the best modern bullion issue. A secondary market is immaterial to me.
what are the ASE design flaws?
and these aren't exactly bullion prices?
This ^^^^. I happen to like them, but it's really difficult to categorize anything as "bullion" that is issued at 3x-4x spot. These are marketed and sold as collector coins, not bullion.
Thanks for expanding on how the mint and the big boys have taken control of the market. Not of interest to me as over the years I only purchased one or two of many issues because of my obsessive/compulsive love of shiny silver coins. However I have gained control of my compulsiveness due to lack of interest. In my observation and opinion so have many other people. The flippers will stop sucking up production and sales will continue to decline. Also disappointment in the falling values of their purchases will further reduce future sales. AS with pogs, pokemon cards, beanie babies, sports cards and franklin mint collectables among many others, modern mint coins will be a loosing investment.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I signed up long ago for without adjustments for a mixed 20 coin dollar roll of 2023 & I remain subscribed for same in 2024.
My orders are filled a couple weeks before people post theirs here so I am early on the ship list.
The 2024 aren't due till September~ish so I could pull the plug or adjust down. Up is not an option unless they raise HHL 5 Reverse Proof sets. Those make me smile, and I can be a grumpy guy. Money can buy happiness.
I agree mark up last few years is appalling from a spot metals perspective. These are .859 ounce of 999 fine silver.
My mixed roll order last year was max HHL 5 two-piece reverse proofs and also 3 proof Morgans, 7 proof peace out of 50 possible combined. I do love me some PEACE.
I am not a fan of laser etched proof dies these days but they are what they are across all offerings these days, right ??? Less details, less flaw, less returns I guess. Don't break out your magnifier! Zero delicate details.
Educate if I am wrong, please ?
Personally, I would rather buy & support Daniel Carr's coin art fantasies, but these Morgan & Peace round out that guilty pleasure exonumia for me.
I'm gonna pass on the morgan and peace dollars again. I'm not a fan of how low relief they both are, they look so flat and lifeless. Plus the prices are outrageous. I am however looking forward to indulging in my guilty pleasure buying from the US Mint when the flowing hair dollars release.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
Only until most of the gullible boomers have passed on, then the bottom will fall out and most modern mint products will only be worth melt. There will be no other demand and our heirs will dump what is left for video games and partying.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
" Collector coin" implies there will be demand and subsequent value appreciation.
There will be none on these if they keep stamping them out like pringles.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
" Collector coin" implies there will be demand and subsequent value appreciation.
There will be none on these if they keep stamping them out like pringles.
Collector coin does not require value appreciation. It only requires that there be someone who wants to collect them. A lot of "collectibles" don't appreciate including coins during some time frames.
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
@fathom said:
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
I don't see such an implication. And if that were true, classic commems aren't collectible coins.
@fathom said:
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
I don't see such an implication. And if that were true, classic commems aren't collectible coins.
Well maybe an assumption does not work in practice. But that is how most collectors are thinking. Classic commems have appreciated from original price no? Not a great investment though.
@fathom said:
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
Well maybe an assumption does not work in practice. But that is how most collectors are thinking. Classic commems have appreciated from original price no? Not a great investment though.
That somewhat changes the definition if you revert to "original price". Commems have been sliding or flat for almost 35 years, so not collectible. But leave that aside.
While I agree that everyone ASSUMES their collectibles will appreciate and WANTS them to appreciate, that is not a requirement. If it is, sports cards are not collectibles, modern sports cars are not collectibles, etc. The only thing required to be "collectible" is that someone wants to collect it. I see no other implied or explicit requirement.
But, you may use it however you wish. It will confuse people, but it makes a nice conversation starter.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
Only until most of the gullible boomers have passed on, then the bottom will fall out and most modern mint products will only be worth melt. There will be no other demand and our heirs will dump what is left for video games and partying.
Yeah, well, we're talking about today. No one really knows about tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow melt is $250/oz.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
" Collector coin" implies there will be demand and subsequent value appreciation.
There will be none on these if they keep stamping them out like pringles.
That's certainly a reason not to buy. For whatever reason, everyone simply does not agree, since around 2 million flew off the shelf last year. Which is why they are back for Round 2. Do you honestly blame them?
@fathom said:
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
I did. It says nothing about price appreciation, implied or otherwise.
Comments
ZERO interest in these 2024 Morgan and Peace silver dollars.
I would rather spend my money on the 1935, or before, certified silver dollars.
For now I will leave my subscriptions at 3 each. Probably will reduce to 1 later.
Opt out.
I sold my entire 2021 lot. No one even wants the 2023s. Similar to 1921 vs 1923.
The uncirculated coins are on sale
July 11. The product schedule linked page shows no mintage and HHL 3
While the subscription linked page shows mintage 275,000 with HHL 25.
As usual “The mint is like a box of chocolates.” 🫤
They can't be serious.
Why not? That's exactly how many they offered last year, and you cannot buy one today directly from them.
Seems about right to me. As interest inevitably wanes, mintages will be adjusted accordingly.
In the meantime, expecting them to leave money on the table by preemptively reducing mintages in order to create a higher probability of a profitable flip for us is simply unreasonable, given how they are now running things more like a business and less like a giveaway for those of us who know what to look for, and how to manipulate their ordering system.
HHL of 25 is reasonable for us right now, given how many they want to push out the door. HHL of 3 is reasonable for release day, given how relatively few they expect to have available on that date.
No harm, since HHLs will be lifted the day after, at which point they will either sell out or they won't. Either way, the Mint is going to be selling a lot of silver at $76 per ounce. Maybe even more if the price keeps going up.
You see the quote "nobody even wants the 23s".
So let's lobby the legislation to account for gluts on the market and pull back production. Preserves value and interest.
Groundhog day.
Pass, as in 2021 and 2023.
I'm not interested in the Morgan or peace dollar sets. But I do wonder how long until we get people posting this $1,000,000 error they just acquired.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
+2
I might buy one or two.
Collector, occasional seller
Here is some data on the 2023 sales of the M&P unc. coins.
Cumulative Sales Figures
Admittedly, I do not know how quickly these sold. But, the Mint was able to sell over 99.5% of the available mintage. So, from their perspective, there was no oversupply (i.e., the market absorbed nearly all that they produced).
If one HHL is for subscriptions and another for release date that is new to me. Anyway TBD. 😲 As for most being sold. It is the big boys who backed up the truck and still have a large inventory to sell and some at very little mark up. Even the tv sellers have reduced prices to unload their overstock. The mint killed the flip for the fleabay sellers. And lower demand is slowly killing the flip for the big boys.They will eventually realize there is not enough demand for the effort.
My memory is fading but I remember a forum member often saying “waiting for the next big swell”
🫡
I bought a 2021 peace dollar because of the 21 in the date, and I bought a 2023 peace dollar proof out of morbid curiosity. I'm good with just those 2.
No. I only see that the Mint sold 275K of each flavor. So, once upon a time, someone wanted them. And that's what the Mint is looking at when deciding whether or not to continue the program, and how to set the mintages.
You mean they aren't catering to the needs of the people who don't want to buy them? Shocking.
These are very popular designs, and there is plenty of demand. Maybe not for almost 2 million coins, spread across a few different flavors, at 4x spot, but they'll adjust mintages as they go.
No one liquidating excess stock now got hurt, given how much they had to have made on what they initially sold. I still don't see anything being sold below their cost, so there is not yet a fire sale.
The only thing for certain is that there is plenty of demand for the effort. The Big Boys have systemic advantages over the rest of us when it comes to flipping, and the Mint has finally figured out how the squeeze the lion's share of profit for themselves, leaving the rest for their Big Boy best customers offering 70-graded examples at prices far below what the rest of us could achieve on our own, and ending the easy profit game for those of us here who thought they discovered fire by recognizing what would be popular, under produced and under priced, and then creating multiple accounts to circumvent order limits and make fast, almost guaranteed money flipping.
That game is now over, but it hardly means that a program that produces almost 2 million coins at a 300%+ markup for the federal government is a failure. Even if mintages settle at half of what they are now. I am reasonably certain there will be significant demand for these coins, at significant premiums to spot, for as long as the Mint wants to produce them.
People who want OGP product can now get whatever they want directly from the Mint, at the price that the market will bear. It's a better deal for people previously forced to buy on the secondary market. Not so much for us. With respect to graded coins, now that we cannot buy from the Mint below market, we cannot have them graded at retail for less than dealers sell them for, so that game is also over.
Doesn't mean the program is dead. Just means we are now buying graded coins from dealers, and not getting OGP at better prices than anyone else. Oh, and flipping new issues from the Mint is no longer a substitute for having a day job.
Excellent observation! Yes, the point of those pooping on them here is that they have no interest because the Mint has priced and produced the easy flip out of existence.
What people miss was that easy flips for us was never their objective. It took a sharpie like Ryder to get in there and realize what they were leaving on the table to move them away from the mentality of being happy making a little and leaving the rest for us and the Big Boys.
It simply isn't true that "nobody even wants the 23s." Almost 2 million have been sold, with the vast majority placed in the hands of collectors. If dealers were signaling to them that wouldn't be able to move another 275K of each of these, mintages would have been reduced.
If they are being overly optimistic, it won't be the end of the world. The Mint won't produce 550K coins until they are sold, and, if demand tanks, mintages will be reduced going forward.
if they bought to flip them then they never wanted them
Pass.
Yes, I’ll be purchasing the ‘24s
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I’ll buy them because they are far and away the best modern bullion issue. A secondary market is immaterial to me.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Pass. Just not impressed with the end product. I can't get over that dull matte finish.
what are the ASE design flaws?
and these aren't exactly bullion prices?
This ^^^^. I happen to like them, but it's really difficult to categorize anything as "bullion" that is issued at 3x-4x spot. These are marketed and sold as collector coins, not bullion.
I have a full set of 21 and 23's. I plan on buy 2 of each coin for 2024 and continue until they stop making them. I like the coins
Here is my Washington Quarter Variety Registry Set
This is my Washington Quarter Proof Variety Registry Set
NJCoin
Thanks for expanding on how the mint and the big boys have taken control of the market. Not of interest to me as over the years I only purchased one or two of many issues because of my obsessive/compulsive love of shiny silver coins. However I have gained control of my compulsiveness due to lack of interest. In my observation and opinion so have many other people. The flippers will stop sucking up production and sales will continue to decline. Also disappointment in the falling values of their purchases will further reduce future sales. AS with pogs, pokemon cards, beanie babies, sports cards and franklin mint collectables among many others, modern mint coins will be a loosing investment.
Even Laura said she likes them on another forum.
This is ...my....So Called Dollar.
I signed up long ago for without adjustments for a mixed 20 coin dollar roll of 2023 & I remain subscribed for same in 2024.
My orders are filled a couple weeks before people post theirs here so I am early on the ship list.
The 2024 aren't due till September~ish so I could pull the plug or adjust down. Up is not an option unless they raise HHL 5 Reverse Proof sets. Those make me smile, and I can be a grumpy guy. Money can buy happiness.
I agree mark up last few years is appalling from a spot metals perspective. These are .859 ounce of 999 fine silver.
My mixed roll order last year was max HHL 5 two-piece reverse proofs and also 3 proof Morgans, 7 proof peace out of 50 possible combined. I do love me some PEACE.
I am not a fan of laser etched proof dies these days but they are what they are across all offerings these days, right ??? Less details, less flaw, less returns I guess. Don't break out your magnifier! Zero delicate details.
Educate if I am wrong, please ?
Personally, I would rather buy & support Daniel Carr's coin art fantasies, but these Morgan & Peace round out that guilty pleasure exonumia for me.
I would buy them at $35.
$3.50 over spot.....Never thought I would see this. 😳
See ? She’s got an awesome sense of humor.
I'm gonna pass on the morgan and peace dollars again. I'm not a fan of how low relief they both are, they look so flat and lifeless. Plus the prices are outrageous. I am however looking forward to indulging in my guilty pleasure buying from the US Mint when the flowing hair dollars release.
I'm pretty sure they offer a similar product at that price point. Only problem being that the mintage is in the 10s of millions rather than 100s of thousands, but it's there for you if you want it.
The market for collector coins with these mintages is right around the $80 they charge. Maybe not for you, but they do move over a million a year, in various finishes and two different designs, at those prices.
you'd be overpaying. these are like 81.??% of a troy ounce, unless you like them that much?
Only until most of the gullible boomers have passed on, then the bottom will fall out and most modern mint products will only be worth melt. There will be no other demand and our heirs will dump what is left for video games and partying.
0.858 tr. Oz
" Collector coin" implies there will be demand and subsequent value appreciation.
There will be none on these if they keep stamping them out like pringles.
Collector coin does not require value appreciation. It only requires that there be someone who wants to collect them. A lot of "collectibles" don't appreciate including coins during some time frames.
We agree most of manufactured "collector" merch does not appreciate. I bristle at using the collector coin term on items that we know will not appreciate if over produced. By definition "collectible: implies price appreciation. Look it up.
I don't see such an implication. And if that were true, classic commems aren't collectible coins.
Well maybe an assumption does not work in practice. But that is how most collectors are thinking. Classic commems have appreciated from original price no? Not a great investment though.
That somewhat changes the definition if you revert to "original price". Commems have been sliding or flat for almost 35 years, so not collectible. But leave that aside.
While I agree that everyone ASSUMES their collectibles will appreciate and WANTS them to appreciate, that is not a requirement. If it is, sports cards are not collectibles, modern sports cars are not collectibles, etc. The only thing required to be "collectible" is that someone wants to collect it. I see no other implied or explicit requirement.
But, you may use it however you wish. It will confuse people, but it makes a nice conversation starter.
Yeah, well, we're talking about today. No one really knows about tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow melt is $250/oz.
That's certainly a reason not to buy. For whatever reason, everyone simply does not agree, since around 2 million flew off the shelf last year. Which is why they are back for Round 2. Do you honestly blame them?
I did. It says nothing about price appreciation, implied or otherwise.
col·lect·i·ble
/kəˈlektəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: collectable; adjective: collectible
I like that they are selling them still, but don’t feel the need to buy them. I bought some in 2021 though.
Mr_Spud
I’ll buy my normal sub of 1 each to keep the set going.