Yet another altered 1931-S cent - but this one is a Gem!
Connecticoin
Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
Looks like it was altered from a 1936-S or 1938-S, with a very good altering job on a Gem red coin!
Auction Link:
3
Comments
For comparison, a genuine 31-s (from Coinfacts)
The three doesn't have the correct shape it would appear. Maybe it is more obvious in hand but that is a very skillful alteration as I see no sign of scratches or marks around the 3 in the auction photo.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Could it have been die struck with a counterfeit die? It would be good to see a close up of the last '1' to see if there are indications of alterations.
Does seem to have some indication of radiant lines on both sides of the 1. Very skillful.
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If you do anything to a bright red gem cent it shows.
To get the field surfaces and the color to match after the alteration would be a challenge.
My dumb guess would be a counterfeit rather than an alteration.
The S looks added on as I see scratches and tool marks.
I agree that the “S” was added as it seems to have a slight tilt to it.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I doubt the S was added, as I would think a genuine 31 Philly would be the host coin for an added S, which the coin pictured in the OP is not.
Perhaps it is genuine
Not a genuine 1931-S, no.
So here are some screen shots.
The first is from the OP.
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This one is from eBay and I clicked the eBay image to get the image only.
Hmmm... some square like image lines next to the S.
Also looks like a thin lined box (larger) outside the S. (horizontal below 3 and vertical also below 3 = one corner below 3)
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And so I adjusted the exposure and a couple others to see what it looked like. And....
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYCRaWPlTIE Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover of Panama (Van Halen)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dOV1VrDuUm4 Ted Nugent, Hibernation, Live 1976
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I see @IkesT posted a similar image (I am guessing from eBay also) at the same time. You can also see the same thing in it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYCRaWPlTIE Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover of Panama (Van Halen)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dOV1VrDuUm4 Ted Nugent, Hibernation, Live 1976
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I was mainly looking at the date, because as Connecticoin pointed out, it's definitely a modified date. The spacing and shape of the "3" doesn't match a 1931 cent, and to the right of the second "1" you can see what looks like the outline of the original numeral (perhaps a 6 or 8, as suggested in the OP).
The logo in the upper left should tell you all you need to know.
Also a quick look at their feedback and item descriptions shows that they use stock photos, I'm sure a statement they added as a CYA.
@lilolme I think it looks like they used a picture of a Philly coin and shadily added an S in [photo editing program of choice]. A real 31-S mint mark looks nothing like that.
Collector, occasional seller
I think I got it now. @IkesT indicates it is not a 1931. As @ChrisH821 indicates the S looks added via photo.
Enlarging my previous photo with the modified exposure, see below, it appears that the second 1 in the date 1931 is also added. I can see some horizontal and vertical lines around it. Also the second 1 in the date looks like the first 1 in the date. Notice the lighting around the top of the 1 and other. So that could be the source of the added second 1.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYCRaWPlTIE Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover of Panama (Van Halen)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dOV1VrDuUm4 Ted Nugent, Hibernation, Live 1976
RLJ 1958 - 2023
So a photoshopped image. Excellent detective work!
So... someone want to buy this and see what they actually get?
Collector, occasional seller
Besides the proverbial vertical mine tunnel?
The first 1 and last 1 are identical.
They have the exact shading that matches perfectly.
Pete
Edited to add: The last 3 in the date had to have been copied from the first 3, then pasted in place of where the original digit was removed.
I never really put much thought into well faked 1931-S cents. I have a few 1931-S Lincolns, I guess that I need to check them now. Not many collectors would be able to distinguish the alterations as you have. Thanks for the info. Bob
Seller appears to not be the best - lots of negative feedback - so I suspect the seller knows it is fake. I reported the listing, but I doubt ebay will do anything unless there are muliple reports (feel free to report the listing yourselves 😁)
Wow! If the actual coin looks like the image "in hand" I'd be fooled. So, after reading through the analyses offered by some very knowledgeable numismatists, it looks to be a mashup of a counterfeit or altered coin as well as an altered image of said coin. I was wondering how someone could alter a RD Lincoln Cent without obvious tool marks... solution... alter the image too!
godspeed for this hobby... :-/
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Probably the seller can’t deliver the coin in the picture as it doesn’t exist
The coin was re-listed, I reported it again. Evidence of altering probably photoshopped out, as discussed above. Hopefully ebay nukes it this time.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304995657897
it looks like it was a 21sor 41 s i read that some alter them by drilling into the rim and using a tool to put the fake mark on the coin then fill the hole and go from there