Yet another altered 1931-S cent - but this one is a Gem!

Options
Connecticoin
Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Looks like it was altered from a 1936-S or 1938-S, with a very good altering job on a Gem red coin!

Auction Link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295763926989?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=F2rtyo5iR8G&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=bxjklrq3tfe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

*For Sale on Ebay*

Comments

  • Connecticoin
    Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    For comparison, a genuine 31-s (from Coinfacts)

    *For Sale on Ebay*
  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    The three doesn't have the correct shape it would appear. Maybe it is more obvious in hand but that is a very skillful alteration as I see no sign of scratches or marks around the 3 in the auction photo.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • tincup
    tincup Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Could it have been die struck with a counterfeit die? It would be good to see a close up of the last '1' to see if there are indications of alterations.

    ----- kj
  • tincup
    tincup Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Does seem to have some indication of radiant lines on both sides of the 1. Very skillful.

    ----- kj
  • Tramp
    Tramp Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maint. Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
    ✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
    ✓ Matte Proof Toned Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1916)

  • ifthevamzarockin
    ifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,915 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    If you do anything to a bright red gem cent it shows. ;)
    To get the field surfaces and the color to match after the alteration would be a challenge.

    My dumb guess would be a counterfeit rather than an alteration.

  • Walkerlover
    Walkerlover Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭✭
    Options

    The S looks added on as I see scratches and tool marks.

  • WAYNEAS
    WAYNEAS Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I agree that the “S” was added as it seems to have a slight tilt to it.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • Connecticoin
    Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2023 6:05PM
    Options

    @WAYNEAS said:
    I agree that the “S” was added as it seems to have a slight tilt to it.
    Wayne

    I doubt the S was added, as I would think a genuine 31 Philly would be the host coin for an added S, which the coin pictured in the OP is not.

    *For Sale on Ebay*
  • Walkerlover
    Walkerlover Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Perhaps it is genuine

  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @Walkerlover said:
    Perhaps it is genuine

    Not a genuine 1931-S, no.

  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

  • lilolme
    lilolme Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    So here are some screen shots.
    The first is from the OP.
    .

    .
    This one is from eBay and I clicked the eBay image to get the image only.
    Hmmm... some square like image lines next to the S.
    Also looks like a thin lined box (larger) outside the S. (horizontal below 3 and vertical also below 3 = one corner below 3)
    .

    .
    And so I adjusted the exposure and a couple others to see what it looked like. And....
    .

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=fbEW8BrNctI Haley Reinhart, Don't Know How To Love You Live (direct to record)

    RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • lilolme
    lilolme Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I see @IkesT posted a similar image (I am guessing from eBay also) at the same time. You can also see the same thing in it.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=fbEW8BrNctI Haley Reinhart, Don't Know How To Love You Live (direct to record)

    RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • IkesT
    IkesT Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2023 6:01AM
    Options

    @lilolme said:
    I see @IkesT posted a similar image (I am guessing from eBay also) at the same time. You can also see the same thing in it.

    I was mainly looking at the date, because as Connecticoin pointed out, it's definitely a modified date. The spacing and shape of the "3" doesn't match a 1931 cent, and to the right of the second "1" you can see what looks like the outline of the original numeral (perhaps a 6 or 8, as suggested in the OP).

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    The logo in the upper left should tell you all you need to know.
    Also a quick look at their feedback and item descriptions shows that they use stock photos, I'm sure a statement they added as a CYA.
    @lilolme I think it looks like they used a picture of a Philly coin and shadily added an S in [photo editing program of choice]. A real 31-S mint mark looks nothing like that.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • lilolme
    lilolme Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I think I got it now. @IkesT indicates it is not a 1931. As @ChrisH821 indicates the S looks added via photo.

    Enlarging my previous photo with the modified exposure, see below, it appears that the second 1 in the date 1931 is also added. I can see some horizontal and vertical lines around it. Also the second 1 in the date looks like the first 1 in the date. Notice the lighting around the top of the 1 and other. So that could be the source of the added second 1.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=fbEW8BrNctI Haley Reinhart, Don't Know How To Love You Live (direct to record)

    RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @lilolme said:
    So here are some screen shots.
    The first is from the OP.
    .

    .
    This one is from eBay and I clicked the eBay image to get the image only.
    Hmmm... some square like image lines next to the S.
    Also looks like a thin lined box (larger) outside the S. (horizontal below 3 and vertical also below 3 = one corner below 3)
    .

    .
    And so I adjusted the exposure and a couple others to see what it looked like. And....
    .

    So a photoshopped image. Excellent detective work!

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    So... someone want to buy this and see what they actually get? :D

    Collector, occasional seller

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @ChrisH821 said:
    So... someone want to buy this and see what they actually get? :D

    Besides the proverbial vertical mine tunnel?

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2023 11:35AM
    Options

    The first 1 and last 1 are identical.

    They have the exact shading that matches perfectly.

    Pete

    Edited to add: The last 3 in the date had to have been copied from the first 3, then pasted in place of where the original digit was removed.

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • rec78
    rec78 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    I never really put much thought into well faked 1931-S cents. I have a few 1931-S Lincolns, I guess that I need to check them now. Not many collectors would be able to distinguish the alterations as you have. Thanks for the info. Bob

    image
  • Connecticoin
    Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ChrisH821 said:
    So... someone want to buy this and see what they actually get? :D

    Besides the proverbial vertical mine tunnel?

    Seller appears to not be the best - lots of negative feedback - so I suspect the seller knows it is fake. I reported the listing, but I doubt ebay will do anything unless there are muliple reports (feel free to report the listing yourselves 😁)

    *For Sale on Ebay*
  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Wow! If the actual coin looks like the image "in hand" I'd be fooled. So, after reading through the analyses offered by some very knowledgeable numismatists, it looks to be a mashup of a counterfeit or altered coin as well as an altered image of said coin. I was wondering how someone could alter a RD Lincoln Cent without obvious tool marks... solution... alter the image too!

    godspeed for this hobby... :-/

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • Walkerlover
    Walkerlover Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭✭
    Options

    Probably the seller can’t deliver the coin in the picture as it doesn’t exist

  • Connecticoin
    Connecticoin Posts: 13,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    The coin was re-listed, I reported it again. Evidence of altering probably photoshopped out, as discussed above. Hopefully ebay nukes it this time.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/304995657897

    *For Sale on Ebay*
  • steve76020
    steve76020 Posts: 367 ✭✭✭
    Options

    it looks like it was a 21sor 41 s i read that some alter them by drilling into the rim and using a tool to put the fake mark on the coin then fill the hole and go from there

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Comment As ...

Categories