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Counterfeit Barber Dimes
Wahoo554
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Bought a smallish lot of circulated Barber dimes on eBay for typical junk silver going rate. No pics of specific coins being sold. Just pics of a pile of coins they are supposed to come from. Most coins are as expected AG-G worn barber dimes. Two of them stood out as being XF, which was unexpected. Quick study of them shows they are counterfeit. I assume they probably are non-silver. Just curious what’s the point of these kinds of counterfeits? Not sure the seller knows he sold me a couple counterfeits, and I didn’t pay much more than $2 each for them, so not as if he was trying to pass off as better grade examples for higher sale price. Has anybody seen similar counterfeits floating around?
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The remainder of the coins are fine. Here’s a sampling of what they were all expected to look like:
Interesting - they appear to be modern. Note how the "1" and "9" in the date are far apart on both. Only the last two digits of the date changed from one to the other.
They look contemporary to me. That would be great!
If they're modern it is still a neat find for the prices paid.
What leads you to think they look contemporary? I know literally nothing about counterfeits (though I do have a copy of Bad Metal waiting to be read).
I could easily be wrong. Simply the "hand-carved dies" look about them. I also have not seen modern replicas like these offered anywhere, and I probably would have at this point. Again, I would quickly change my mind if someone links where these can be purchased in bulk.
I guessed modern fakes, with what appears to be a struck thru on one obverse.
I have a counterfeit barber half that I picked up as a counterfeit about 30 years ago.
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Neat pick ups.
I like them
BHNC #203
I agree, they look a little too good to be contemporary fakes. I say this as I’ve seen a number of contemporary fake walkers from the teens (and own a few study pieces), and they are nowhere near this good.
Interesting.... Thanks for the excellent pictures. Some points such as the date, eye detail, liberty in the head band stand out as PUP's....Cheers, RickO
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800162701163.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.66b51c11NsWG5V&algo_pvid=e737f9fd-20c5-4574-b964-ce05f803f027&algo_exp_id=e737f9fd-20c5-4574-b964-ce05f803f027-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000001442189583"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!!63.8!!!!!@210318b916571104647605104e847d!10000001442189583!sea
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Actually there's a series of Barber dime fakes done in silver washed copper that we locally have called the "Rochester fakes". They are early fakes and much better than these. Ironically, to me these look modern simply because they aren't that good.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800202065197.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.66b51c11NsWG5V&algo_pvid=e737f9fd-20c5-4574-b964-ce05f803f027&algo_exp_id=e737f9fd-20c5-4574-b964-ce05f803f027-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"10000001587041006"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!!18.5!!!!!@210318b916571104647605104e847d!10000001587041006!sea
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
On the 1916, the 6 and the 9 should look the same, only flipped. On yours, they are completely different fonts. If contemporary, they might be good silver as it was cheap in those days and a profit could be made by passing them at face value. You should weigh them.
it is too bad someone cleaned the 1916
take them out of the 2x2s and check the reeding (unless you are thinking of returning the eBay lot)
I’ll take them out of their 2x2’s and take images of the reeding and will weigh them this evening and will share the results.
Did a comp of the reverses looking for any common details:
Thank you for providing that link. I have seen these before.
The OP's coins have a different obverse. The common modern fakes actually look slightly better as far as details on the portrait.
Here are some close up pics of the “1916”. Lots of interesting little anomalies when you study up close.
Obverses:
Wow, pathetic attempt at the numerals.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Drop the fake coins on a concrete floor; the ping will be different than that of a silver coin.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
They have the look of modern Chinese minted fakes in that the numerals are different like a lot of fakes made there.
So here’s some more information to analyze:
1916 way too light:
It weighs about what you would expect for a fine barber dime:
Here’s a genuine VF Barber dime for comparison:
Now the 1909 counterfeit is surprisingly the right weight:
Here’s an AU Merc for comparison:
And finally here’s a picture of the reeding (sorry, didn’t have my loupe).
Left is the 1909 counterfeit, middle is the 1916 counterfeit and right is the genuine 1906 VF barber.
It likely hasn’t been cleaned, at least not in the traditional sense. It was likely artificially aged in order to appear older than it is. The counterfeiter would have stained or chemically altered the surfaces and then scrubbed the surfaces in order to achieve a look resembling old circulated silver.
When folks transition from the coin world to medals, they will encounter the same thing and mistake it for an improper cleaning. However, sometimes after striking a medal, the maker will apply chemicals to the surface of a medal and then brush the surface to get a “brushed antique” look. So, it’s not really a cleaning, but an as-made surface finish.
They definitely look more modern to me, and artificially aged as @GoldenEgg suggests.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
interesting, thanks for the close-ups
Very interesting and informative. I guess the sense of accomplishment out ways the illegality. Peace Roy
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Nice pick up good eye! 👍🏻
No idea regarding the point. 10¢ went much further back then. 😂 The Henning nickel comes to mind.
Here's a really bad fake/counterfeit I found somewhere. It's a cast and I think it's lead. Yours is a little better quality then this one!! 🤣 😂
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Whose sense of accomplishment? The counterfeiter? These coins are an interesting study for the board, but a problem for consumers as a whole. I could easily see these coins marketed on eBay or elsewhere as XF/AU Barber dimes, and there are many people that would have zero idea they aren’t legit.
They should be punched with a stamp that says "BAD".
“Never let yesterday use up too much of today.”
Will Rogers
But that would ruin my current eBay listing with them advertised as choice UNC 😉
Modern, probably Chinese. Not contemporary.
I know that the theory of them being contemporary is dead -- which, by the way, I believe is the case for the dime that @OAKSTAR posted -- but...
I've heard of a contemporary counterfeit seated dollar that was so good, it fooled PCGS (or NGC, I forgot.) Just wanted to share.
The reverses of your dimes actually look pretty convincing to me, but that's probably because I'm not an avid collector of Barber coinage.
I collect world proof sets, coins featuring composers, mid-20th century U.S. proof coins, U.S. type coins, and whatever else I want.