1959-D 1c Mule Auction 2019
LanceNewmanOCC
Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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in a cross-reference link from the recent dollar mule thread vis-a-vis coinworld, i saw the article linked here and after searching our archives to see what i was sure a thread in the time frame of the article (our archive search feature is not good for this outside 12 months) i didn't see an obvious thread but figure there has to be one, so if so, disregard this one and please link the other one(s). t.i.a.
tried a quick engine search to pull up any CF page but didn't see one.
the barcode will scan but says invalid.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/controversial-1959-d-cent-mule-heads-to-auction.html
images edited out from coinworld.
images below from goldbergs
some noteable comments from the extensive auction description:
It is important to note here that this coin will not be confiscated as the Treasury Department has returned the coin twice to the owner after reviewing the coin and returning it as genuine. It is also considered legal tender by the Treasury Department.
"Table 1: Composition, diameter, thickness, and Mass of Exhibit Q1
Exhibit Cu(%) Zn & Sn (%) Diameter (mm) Thickness (mm) Mass (g)
Genuine* 95.0 5.0 19.05 1.58 3.11
Q1 ~95 - 97 ~3 - 5 19.1 - 19.2 1.5 - 1.6 3.09
*The numbers presented in this row are the Mint specifications for genuine 1947-1962.
FOUND IT with help from @IkesT
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=110&lot=762
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=110&chapter=69&page=1
my added pup pics from the goldberg images
sharpening really makes the pups pop
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -
Comments
The pics provided are obviously not a muled coin. If you are looking for info on the wheat reversed 59, I vaguely remember discussions here about it. Several were on the side of it not being genuine. Equally as many felt it was the real deal. Not sure a TPG ever slabbed the coin.
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thanks. that is a terrible fail on my part. it was the last tab i had open (coinworld) and was low on energy and was thinking if i should even post it. i now see, i chose poorly!
There are 1c/10c mules known from the same time period as the 25c/$1 mules (~1999-2001, as I recall). These are considered genuine and have been TPG-certified.
https://www.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231&Nty=1&Ntt=lincoln+roosevelt+mule&ic10=ArchiveTab-071515
hmm. i searched the goldberg archives for the coin but couldn't find it.
i see the article date Published: May 20, 2019, 6 AM and naturally concluded the article states "will be offered at Ira and Larry Goldberg’s June 2 Pre-Long Beach Auction." i naturally concluded it should be in this sale. - http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/toc_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=110
Here is the lot:
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=110&lot=762
FOUND IT!
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=110&lot=762
http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=110&chapter=69&page=1
SO, with anyone whom wants to compare their 1959-D obv coins to see if you can find a match to the above, please post image(s) here.
same goes for the rev.
i'll take a moment at a later time to enlarge the above images, sharpen them up and post some of the key pup areas to try and match up!
for numismatics, funsies and glory!
dang. i think we may have found it at the same time!
In his book Numismatic Forgery, Charles M. Larson discusses the possibility that this mule was a die-struck counterfeit created by convicted forger Mark Hofmann.
Reportedly, Hofmann claimed responsbility for making the mule, and was also said to have favored making counterfeit coin dies via an electroplating method (also discussed in the book). He did, in fact, have an electroplating machine that could have been used for this purpose, but the question of whether he actually made the mule has yet to be definitively answered.
Some previous threads on the 1959-D 1c mule:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/170189/1959d-mule-cent-hammered-at-42k-juice
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1020015/1959-d-lincoln-cent-with-wheat-reverse-to-be-auctioned-next-month
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1055611/treasury-and-secret-service-says-its-real-tpgs-say-its-fake-it-sells-for-50k-what-do-you-say
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/128388/1959-lincoln-wheat-cent-mule-not-sold
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/671553/has-there-been-any-recent-updates-on-the-status-of-the-1959-wheat-cent
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/733615/understanding-counterfeit-detection
the date kinda makes it look like some DDO but if it is, i don't see the match on V V which only lists 2 ddos. i need to check doubleddie next but i'm not well-versed at surfing his site or should i call it a compendium.
SO, now we wait. how long from this day until a matching obv/rev die do we wait.
obv 1959-d
rev - 1958 (pds?)
since philly made the dies while the branch mints put mm on the dies, is it a far stretch that a hub or master die could have made working dies that were sent to P D and S resulting in potential matching pups. maybe not, once the auxillary mints did what they did to the dies to extend life, most traits would be obliterated.
That is assuming the mule is genuine. If it were a counterfeit and struck from dies copied from real coins via electroplating, the reverse could have been copied from a P, D, or S coin (and not necessarily from a 1958-dated coin).
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very true and it does say a lot that the top TPGs have certified some crazy crap, yet this remains raw.
fwiw, i am checking all the CF examples for matching 59-d obv and i MAY do the 58 pds reverses. this is how mysteries are solved. grinding...
i thought the hair/beard on the op coin was an issue but seeing plenty of examples where this is very mushy.
I'm with the TPG's on this one,,,I can't find anything yet and I've been looking, like someone said we need more or at least to be able to match the obverse with a legit 1959 D LMC.
Good call in my opinion
I'm not saying it's real or fake,, I'm just agreeing.
Certainly seems that with the depth of scrutiny already applied, and the government authorities calling it authentic, that a verdict should be made and the coin slabbed. JMO Cheers, RickO
it would be nice if it were that simple but everyone gets it wrong. the gov and the tpgs. didn't the gov melt a bunch of 69-s ddo? pretty sure i recall them also nuking some other major varieties/dates. we've seen counterfeits slip past the tpgs, the unsealed slab thing seems like it may be on the verge of showing a lot of coins not properly sealed. most everything is in a state of flux, including people.
BUT having said that, you are right, it would be nice to have someone say one way or another, if they haven't already, what is the problem with this item. is it just risk assessment? with as much fanfare as would come with such an item and i do detect a bit of competition between the top tpgs of making major annoucements, not that marketing is the only reason for such, but a coin like this would go a long way in one tpg holder or the other. of course if they get it wrong and somehow it is proven fake in one way or another, that can be an expensive callback.
In 1959 all dies were manufactured at the main mint in Philadelphia. Dies that were sent to Denver or San Francisco also had the mintmark applied before being shipped.
This was all done at Philly. The only things that the branch mints did to dies was to stress harden them for use, and to make sure the correct diameter for coining (Basining) was applied.
Very strange indeed. Only one specimen. Experts cannot find anything wrong with it.
The saga continues.
Pete
For the record, there is one 1959 (plain) wheatback cent and one 1959-D wheatback cent floating around. I am highly suspicious of the plain (I think it is an altered date, but I have not seen it since the late 1970's) and dubious but uncertain on the 1959-D. I cannot say if it is good or bad.
if i owned this coin, i'd probably spend a few $10ks on random 59-d lincoln rolls from around the country probably buying say 20-50 rolls every month or more until i hit my pre-set spending limit and/or offer a reward to have the masses start scouring their coins. there is ALWAYS a solution. finding it, being willing and executing it is the crux.
the obv die, if legit, obviously will have struck other coins, many coins, so there will be other examples but probably w/o the wheat rev. the rev also has enough diagnostics to check but i presume it will be more difficult to match up, if possible.
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So I did find a match,, it's an error coin in my opinion filled bottom B in liberty and the lines in the pictures above 10x's worse both sides, does look other things going on also.
Oh and the D is angled pretty bad to the right.
PS not worth grading even thou it matches.
I did find an obverse that matches in my opinion on the 1959 D what back for both 1958 D and 1959 D, also with up close pictures of the trial piece date and liberty it might match also.
JMO it's real 100%.
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Hey all,, good day,, check post above also
I think this might be the one,,, maybe this one is before the B got filled?
Lol micro S inside the D Mark
pretty neat coin. will be interested to see how it goes.
can't imagine that their isn't one or two floating through pockets waiting to be discovered.
I think this is a solo event,,, I mean I think they knew right away what was wrong with the picture.
If this coin matches mine it proves it went threw a few extra steps to be the mule it is.
JMO and Thanks