How is this grading possible?

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Joey29
Joey29 Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
edited February 26, 2022 9:31PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I don’t understand this. Both coins graded MS65+ and with CAC stickers. How can the coin with all that right field chatter earn a MS65 + and a CAC to boot. Am I missing something? Difference seems huge between the two coins.
Any opinions? Could it be the Dl Hansen label?

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  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well, an MS66 with a teeny bit of a luster break (that looks worse in the photo than in-hand) might end up in a 5+ holder. If you grade down from 70 instead of up from 60 it might make more sense.

    Just a guess.

  • Joey29
    Joey29 Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
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    @BryceM said:
    Well, an MS66 with a teeny bit of a luster break (that looks worse in the photo than in-hand) might end up in a 5+ holder. If you grade down from 70 instead of up from 60 it might make more sense.

    Just a guess.

    Sure does not look tiny to me. If that’s 65+ than the other coin is a sure undergraded 66.

  • pursuitofliberty
    pursuitofliberty Posts: 7,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Joey29 said:

    @BryceM said:
    Well, an MS66 with a teeny bit of a luster break (that looks worse in the photo than in-hand) might end up in a 5+ holder. If you grade down from 70 instead of up from 60 it might make more sense.

    Just a guess.

    Sure does not look tiny to me. If that’s 65+ than the other coin is a sure undergraded 66.

    Based on the IMAGES from the Obverse only (as that's all you provided), I would agree with you ... the 39-S is a premium example to the 39-D in terms of grade ...

    HOWEVER, both of those images are over exposed just enough to make a real determination from images difficult, and the reverse could (and should) play a factor.

    Since I haven't seen either in hand, I would trust PCGS and JA to have confirmed those are (or are extremely close to) the right market grade


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  • Joey29
    Joey29 Posts: 458 ✭✭✭
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    @pursuitofliberty said:

    @Joey29 said:

    @BryceM said:
    Well, an MS66 with a teeny bit of a luster break (that looks worse in the photo than in-hand) might end up in a 5+ holder. If you grade down from 70 instead of up from 60 it might make more sense.

    Just a guess.

    Sure does not look tiny to me. If that’s 65+ than the other coin is a sure undergraded 66.

    Based on the IMAGES from the Obverse only (as that's all you provided), I would agree with you ... the 39-S is a premium example to the 39-D in terms of grade ...

    HOWEVER, both of those images are over exposed just enough to make a real determination from images difficult, and the reverse could (and should) play a factor.

    Since I haven't seen either in hand, I would trust PCGS and JA to have confirmed those are (or are extremely close to) the right market grade

    It still is possible they were off on this one, perhaps a rare error.
    I can post the reverse but it rarely comes into play except for possibly lowering the obverse grade. It really never lifts the grade

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I would trust the in hand evaluation of the the two services in this case. Rarely are images the equivalent of in hand evaluation. Yet, we do it all the time on the forum. @airplanenut and @MFeld have both expressed good input above. Cheers, RickO

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Isn't it also that these 2 coins were not graded in comparison to each other. A Friday and a Monday coin, so to speak. Peace Roy

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  • Treashunt
    Treashunt Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Better strike on the one with the chatter

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    IDK... can't really say much about images when two independent staffs of graders have seen both coins up close and personal...

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  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:
    It sounds as if you’re placing too much emphasis on overexposed images of coins, rather than how they probably look in hand.

    I agree. These photos are too bright. I've learned from experience that over exposed photos can "burn out" marks so that you can't see them.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinbuf
    coinbuf Posts: 12,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It is possible that what you see on the field of the 39-D is more of a water mark/stain vs a heavy hit. As a few others have said these photos are not adequate enough to make any solid determination.

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  • jesbroken
    jesbroken Posts: 11,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    My 39 is a 64 which I thought was held back from a 65 by some minor markings in the right field.
    Jim



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  • alaura22
    alaura22 Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    All I can say is
    Buy the coin Not the holder!

    Mike
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  • moursund
    moursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @alaura22 said:
    All I can say is
    Buy the coin Not the holder!

    But if you aren't an expert, buy the coin and the holder...

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  • JohnF
    JohnF Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They both look beautiful to me. If one is technically better than the other, it will likely be in a 66 holder soon.

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  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    With that quality of strike and luster you’d be looking at 68 without the chatter. It’s not that hard to imagine just how good they look in hand.
    Plus the shadows would not be that visible when overexposed unless the luster is screaming which it is.

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jesbroken said:
    My 39 is a 64 which I thought was held back from a 65 by some minor markings in the right field.
    Jim


    don't you feel the reverse with the weak strike and lack of detail on the leg had something to do with it?

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Graders weigh all factors; some coins like the 41-s Walker rarely have good strikes and get graded on a curve. Luster forgives a lot of problems.

  • jesbroken
    jesbroken Posts: 11,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @davewesen don't you feel the reverse with the weak strike and lack of detail on the leg had something to do with it?

    As so many well struck coins were made, you would think so, but the coin is so lustrous inhand that I had hoped for a 65. My bad evidently.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

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