That 63 Peace $ an ugly coin sticker or not. It will get darker over time too. The NGC61 seated dollar not attractive to me either. Dark Coins badly damaged by the atmosphere / environment not for me.
Have seen some like the peace $ in this wholesalers boxes at shows selling abt 90 pct bid. They probably walked in his shop at 45-50 pct bid.
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
I wouldn’t have thought that even vocal CAC critics, would conclude from one particular coin
(or for that matter, fewer than hundreds of coins) what CAC’s priorities are. And yet, one other poster has already hit “Agree” with your post. But he’s experienced enough to know that’s not really the case.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
I wouldn’t have thought that even vocal CAC critics, would conclude from one particular coin
(or for that matter, fewer than hundreds of coins) what CAC’s priorities are. And yet, one other poster has already hit “Agree” with your post. But he’s experienced enough to know that’s not really the case.
Just shows that to CAC beauty is only 'skin' deep.
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
Seems very unattractive features on a coin doesn’t preclude a green sticker. So solid or high end for the grade doesn’t necessarily mean eye appealing just that the contact marks and surface quality are high for the grade, as well as no pvc or high point friction on mint state coins. Maybe that peace dollar would have graded ms 64 or 65 if eye appealing. Correct me if I am wrong.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
I don't know what everyone is complaining about. It's got fully original mint luster...LOL.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
I don't care for it. And I wonder how CAC could call it an A or B coin. Maybe seeing it in hand would change my opinion. Pix can be misleading.
Still, I have seen enough un-eye-appealing CAC'd coins that I no longer think of the sticker as a plus. It says something about originality, perhaps.
Lance.
@lkeigwin said:
I don't care for it. And I wonder how CAC could call it an A or B coin. Maybe seeing it in hand would change my opinion. Pix can be misleading.
Still, I have seen enough un-eye-appealing CAC'd coins that I no longer think of the sticker as a plus. It says something about originality, perhaps.
Lance.
I generally think of the sticker as a plus (particularly when I'm selling). I just don't think of it as infallible, nor do I think "goodness" in a coin is binary.
EDIT: Perhaps you literally meant a PCGS plus grade, in which case my comment can be disregarded, I suppose.
@lkeigwin said:
I don't care for it. And I wonder how CAC could call it an A or B coin. Maybe seeing it in hand would change my opinion. Pix can be misleading.
Still, I have seen enough un-eye-appealing CAC'd coins that I no longer think of the sticker as a plus. It says something about originality, perhaps.
Lance.
I think the TPG services are more about market grading and eye appeal, while CAC is more about not grading cons with high point friction, pvc, doctored surfaces and rewarding originality. Not to say maybe most of the unattractive CAC coins would grade higher if they had eye appeal
Why don't you sell them some of your nice CAC coins and report back the prices you received. I would almost make a wager giving you odds I could sell a Non-CAC example for more than you receive!
@Soldi said:
All coins with CAC stickers have a market. They are easily sold back to the originator of the sticker.
I cannot say that for many other companies with plastic opinions.
@thefinn said:
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
Seems very unattractive features on a coin doesn’t preclude a green sticker. So solid or high end for the grade doesn’t necessarily mean eye appealing just that the contact marks and surface quality are high for the grade, as well as no pvc or high point friction on mint state coins. Maybe that peace dollar would have graded ms 64 or 65 if eye appealing. Correct me if I am wrong.
No, that's probably correct. It also may not be that dark in hand. There is definite darkening of the white holder in the photo.
@lkeigwin said:
I don't care for it. And I wonder how CAC could call it an A or B coin. Maybe seeing it in hand would change my opinion. Pix can be misleading.
Still, I have seen enough un-eye-appealing CAC'd coins that I no longer think of the sticker as a plus. It says something about originality, perhaps.
Lance.
I generally think of the sticker as a plus (particularly when I'm selling). I just don't think of it as infallible, nor do I think "goodness" in a coin is binary.
EDIT: Perhaps you literally meant a PCGS plus grade, in which case my comment can be disregarded, I suppose.
This is true. People are conflating CAC with eye appeal which is not accurate. That coin can easily be a "solid 63" even if it were penalized for negative eye appeal when assigning the 63.
@amwldcoin said:
Why don't you sell them some of your nice CAC coins and report back the prices you received. I would almost make a wager giving you odds I could sell a Non-CAC example for more than you receive!
@Soldi said:
All coins with CAC stickers have a market. They are easily sold back to the originator of the sticker.
I cannot say that for many other companies with plastic opinions.
The CAC price is readily available in the greysheet for common coins. The CAC bids come from the CDN dealer posted bids. That puts a clear floor under the price and sets the market for sight unseen coins.
An exceptional coin, with or without CAC, don't sell for "guide". That has nothing to do with TPGs, stickers or anything other than the nature of guides.
@amwldcoin said:
Why don't you sell them some of your nice CAC coins and report back the prices you received. I would almost make a wager giving you odds I could sell a Non-CAC example for more than you receive!
@Soldi said:
All coins with CAC stickers have a market. They are easily sold back to the originator of the sticker.
I cannot say that for many other companies with plastic opinions.
The CAC price is readily available in the greysheet for common coins. The CAC bids come from the CDN dealer posted bids. That puts a clear floor under the price and sets the market for sight unseen coins.
An exceptional coin, with or without CAC, don't sell for "guide". That has nothing to do with TPGs, stickers or anything other than the nature of guides.
@amwldcoin said:
Those mean nothing unless you are suggesting CAC will pay those prices! They do not pay those prices and do not buy everything they are offered!
@amwldcoin said:
Why don't you sell them some of your nice CAC coins and report back the prices you received. I would almost make a wager giving you odds I could sell a Non-CAC example for more than you receive!
@Soldi said:
All coins with CAC stickers have a market. They are easily sold back to the originator of the sticker.
I cannot say that for many other companies with plastic opinions.
The CAC price is readily available in the greysheet for common coins. The CAC bids come from the CDN dealer posted bids. That puts a clear floor under the price and sets the market for sight unseen coins.
An exceptional coin, with or without CAC, don't sell for "guide". That has nothing to do with TPGs, stickers or anything other than the nature of guides.
CAC or the corresponding dealer will and do pay those prices. That is the nature of an open bid.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sold some of my collection to a dealer in NJ , some to CAC , some to a dealer in NH.
I still have a few pieces left, but not much, always will trade or make a deal with fellow collectors.
Lost the most money on Barber halves, I'm no expert , but it turns out even the "tough dates" are ubiquitous , offers for coins purchased from the best dealers were always 20% behind lowest heritage auctions prices, regardless of auction date. Jeez never again.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
@Nic said:
Folks are arguing about CAC and a 63 common date Peace Dollar?
Exactly.
And like there aren't bigger issues out there like thousands of purposely cleaned, dipped and wiped coins in straight graded holders. At least this coin is somewhat unadulterated.
@lkenefic said:
FWIW... how do we know that the coin wasn't submitted to CAC with market acceptable toning only to turn dark... and terminal... years later?
Depending on the chemical treatment used, this is possible... no?
@lkenefic said:
FWIW... how do we know that the coin wasn't submitted to CAC with market acceptable toning only to turn dark... and terminal... years later?
Depending on the chemical treatment used, this is possible... no?
Scroll up...
Beyond the photo evidence, the holder looks to be either the current or very recent generation.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
Many people feel the same way you do. Each of has our own limit with respect to the premium we’re willing to pay for quality, color, etc. Some are understanding and respectful of those who do things very differently, while others aren’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
@Joey29 said:
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition.
The fact that others are paying "huge money" would seem to indicate your opinion is not the only one to be found on the topic. To be honest, if I were one of those people, I wouldn't bother trying to explain myself to someone who thinks I lack common sense because I don't spend my money the way he thinks I should.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
It's the Market.
I don't have to justify it. I can choose to play or not. Clearly MULTIPLE people were willing to pay the difference. It would be better and more profitable for you to accept that fact rather than argue with it.
Moon money is for people who don't care about money. The previous sentence is a lie case in point; just park your Dodge Ram next to their Lambo in the parking lot and squeeze outta your driver door. Don't touch their car, but just look at their face. Ahhhhhaaaa Yeah, they don't care, my, my, my.
A 1943 Walker is a common date and one in 68+ is an uncommon grade.
Doesn't anyone have Breen's Encyclopedia ? Read where Pukall and Breen and Gies and Wayte Raymond bought broken bank roll and rolls of these coins.
The guy who puts CAC stickers on these coins told me "there still exists rolls of these 20th century modern coins"
You never know when another will come to the surface.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
It's the Market.
I don't have to justify it. I can choose to play or not. Clearly MULTIPLE people were willing to pay the difference. It would be better and more profitable for you to accept that fact rather than argue with it.
This is a extremely tiny market. The question is would you invest your money in these coins if Igave you $500,000 to invest in any coins you see potential in. I am just stating a personal opinion about these kind of coins, which I am entitled to. Not insulting these people who choose to buy these coins, as they can spend their own money as they please.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
It's the Market.
I don't have to justify it. I can choose to play or not. Clearly MULTIPLE people were willing to pay the difference. It would be better and more profitable for you to accept that fact rather than argue with it.
This is a extremely tiny market. The question is would you invest your money in these coins if Igave you $500,000 to invest in any coins you see potential in. I am just stating a personal opinion about these kind of coins, which I am entitled to. Not insulting these people who choose to buy these coins, as they can spend their own money as they please.
I personally have no interest in any key dates. I don't argue with people who do.
"I don't see the common sense..." isn't exactly supportive and could be considered insulting.
@Soldi said:
Moon money is for people who don't care about money. The previous sentence is a lie case in point; just park your Dodge Ram next to their Lambo in the parking lot and squeeze outta your driver door. Don't touch their car, but just look at their face. Ahhhhhaaaa Yeah, they don't care, my, my, my.
A 1943 Walker is a common date and one in 68+ is an uncommon grade.
Doesn't anyone have Breen's Encyclopedia ? Read where Pukall and Breen and Gies and Wayte Raymond bought broken bank roll and rolls of these coins.
The guy who puts CAC stickers on these coins told me "there still exists rolls of these 20th century modern coins"
You never know when another will come to the surface.
I don’t personally imhop think a white ms 68+ is a Rolls Royce exactly. Put exciting toning and combine that with a ms 67+ or ms 68 grade and you have your Rolls Royce.
Comments
I'm not sure a dip would turn out well with that coin, anyway. Might take a few to strip the color, at which point the luster would likely be shot.
That 63 Peace $ an ugly coin sticker or not. It will get darker over time too. The NGC61 seated dollar not attractive to me either. Dark Coins badly damaged by the atmosphere / environment not for me.
Have seen some like the peace $ in this wholesalers boxes at shows selling abt 90 pct bid. They probably walked in his shop at 45-50 pct bid.
That Peace Dollar is just ugly.
I wouldn’t have thought that even vocal CAC critics, would conclude from one particular coin
(or for that matter, fewer than hundreds of coins) what CAC’s priorities are. And yet, one other poster has already hit “Agree” with your post. But he’s experienced enough to know that’s not really the case.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Intent was to show that CAC does indeed sticker dark Seated.
And they do it because I believe it helps affirm originality.
So prove me wrong.
Like I mentioned early it was probably fine when graded and stickered , but stored improperly.
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>
Obviously. Your intent was not obvious (at least to me).
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
Just shows that to CAC beauty is only 'skin' deep.
CAC's popularity is beyond dispute. Such a shame it's broken so many along the way.
.
Nope you would need to sandblast the reverse to get it white.
The terminal toning is worst at the bottom by the word PEACE... That won't dip off.
Seems very unattractive features on a coin doesn’t preclude a green sticker. So solid or high end for the grade doesn’t necessarily mean eye appealing just that the contact marks and surface quality are high for the grade, as well as no pvc or high point friction on mint state coins. Maybe that peace dollar would have graded ms 64 or 65 if eye appealing. Correct me if I am wrong.
It has a Zombucks look to me .......
I don't know what everyone is complaining about. It's got fully original mint luster...LOL.
I don't care for it. And I wonder how CAC could call it an A or B coin. Maybe seeing it in hand would change my opinion. Pix can be misleading.
Still, I have seen enough un-eye-appealing CAC'd coins that I no longer think of the sticker as a plus. It says something about originality, perhaps.
Lance.
I generally think of the sticker as a plus (particularly when I'm selling). I just don't think of it as infallible, nor do I think "goodness" in a coin is binary.
EDIT: Perhaps you literally meant a PCGS plus grade, in which case my comment can be disregarded, I suppose.
I think the TPG services are more about market grading and eye appeal, while CAC is more about not grading cons with high point friction, pvc, doctored surfaces and rewarding originality. Not to say maybe most of the unattractive CAC coins would grade higher if they had eye appeal
All coins with CAC stickers have a market. They are easily sold back to the originator of the sticker.
I cannot say that for many other companies with plastic opinions.
Why don't you sell them some of your nice CAC coins and report back the prices you received. I would almost make a wager giving you odds I could sell a Non-CAC example for more than you receive!
No, that's probably correct. It also may not be that dark in hand. There is definite darkening of the white holder in the photo.
This is true. People are conflating CAC with eye appeal which is not accurate. That coin can easily be a "solid 63" even if it were penalized for negative eye appeal when assigning the 63.
The CAC price is readily available in the greysheet for common coins. The CAC bids come from the CDN dealer posted bids. That puts a clear floor under the price and sets the market for sight unseen coins.
An exceptional coin, with or without CAC, don't sell for "guide". That has nothing to do with TPGs, stickers or anything other than the nature of guides.
Those mean nothing unless you are suggesting CAC will pay those prices! They do not pay those prices and do not buy everything they are offered!
CAC or the corresponding dealer will and do pay those prices. That is the nature of an open bid.
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
All coins have a market. They are easily sold by listing them on eBay or GC starting at 99 cents.
I'm willing to bet that if you think you're guaranteed to get CAC's published price guide for all of your CAC coins, you're in for a rude awakening.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
Shorter HalfDimeDude: "Once everybody else sees things the way I do, everything will be fine."
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sold some of my collection to a dealer in NJ , some to CAC , some to a dealer in NH.
I still have a few pieces left, but not much, always will trade or make a deal with fellow collectors.
Lost the most money on Barber halves, I'm no expert , but it turns out even the "tough dates" are ubiquitous , offers for coins purchased from the best dealers were always 20% behind lowest heritage auctions prices, regardless of auction date. Jeez never again.
If I don’t like the coin the sticker means nothing to me. Ditto for most buyers off bourse.
Furthermore I am for most part a buyer back of bid. Or some pct CF. Want his bid then send it to him.
"Fool" and "idiot" are nouns, not adjectives...
Folks are arguing about CAC and a 63 common date Peace Dollar?
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
A quick certification number lookup on NGC's website shows that this is indeed what the coin looked like at the time of grading.
Exactly.
And like there aren't bigger issues out there like thousands of purposely cleaned, dipped and wiped coins in straight graded holders. At least this coin is somewhat unadulterated.
FWIW... how do we know that the coin wasn't submitted to CAC with market acceptable toning only to turn dark... and terminal... years later?
Depending on the chemical treatment used, this is possible... no?
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Beyond the photo evidence, the holder looks to be either the current or very recent generation.
You’re, of course, correct. I shouldn’t have quoted any language from @HalfDimeDude😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
Many people feel the same way you do. Each of has our own limit with respect to the premium we’re willing to pay for quality, color, etc. Some are understanding and respectful of those who do things very differently, while others aren’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
The fact that others are paying "huge money" would seem to indicate your opinion is not the only one to be found on the topic. To be honest, if I were one of those people, I wouldn't bother trying to explain myself to someone who thinks I lack common sense because I don't spend my money the way he thinks I should.
It's the Market.
I don't have to justify it. I can choose to play or not. Clearly MULTIPLE people were willing to pay the difference. It would be better and more profitable for you to accept that fact rather than argue with it.
Moon money is for people who don't care about money. The previous sentence is a lie case in point; just park your Dodge Ram next to their Lambo in the parking lot and squeeze outta your driver door. Don't touch their car, but just look at their face. Ahhhhhaaaa Yeah, they don't care, my, my, my.
A 1943 Walker is a common date and one in 68+ is an uncommon grade.
Doesn't anyone have Breen's Encyclopedia ? Read where Pukall and Breen and Gies and Wayte Raymond bought broken bank roll and rolls of these coins.
The guy who puts CAC stickers on these coins told me "there still exists rolls of these 20th century modern coins"
You never know when another will come to the surface.
This is a extremely tiny market. The question is would you invest your money in these coins if Igave you $500,000 to invest in any coins you see potential in. I am just stating a personal opinion about these kind of coins, which I am entitled to. Not insulting these people who choose to buy these coins, as they can spend their own money as they please.
I personally have no interest in any key dates. I don't argue with people who do.
"I don't see the common sense..." isn't exactly supportive and could be considered insulting.
I don’t personally imhop think a white ms 68+ is a Rolls Royce exactly. Put exciting toning and combine that with a ms 67+ or ms 68 grade and you have your Rolls Royce.