09S-VDB I can't see anything wrong with this coin, but I'm suspicious!

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 5:48PM

I on purpose didn't include the link to the listing because I can't find anything wrong with this coin, if there is its going to take far better trained eyes than mine to see it?
So, the why I'm suspicious is the seller of this keeps posting these PERFECT examples of these,
with FULL BOW TIE!
None Graded!
Same background!
Same condition!
Same shine!
They've been posting two or three a month for the past several months or so, its like they've got a tub of these very rare near uncirculated 09S-VDB's
I did contact the seller about how they just keep pulling these RARE coins out of a tub and how questionable it is, YEP! he got mad at me, told me he was going to report me to ebay, I told him I didn't care what he did LoL! Its still very suspicious to me.
So, without a link to the listing I'd like the Best trained eyes on the forum to take a very close look at the pictures of this coin to see if its Possible (?????) that it could be a new bread of a high grade counterfeit/fake going around?
I'm not implying that it is, but for this coin to be RARE, and with collectors pulling these out of circulation for 100 years now I just can't figure where this seller has come up with what looks like an endless supply of them. They NEVER list more than one at a time, they always bring HIGH DOLLAR! he told me that every one of them he post the picture is of that excite coin and he didn't recycle pictures.

So, I'm calling on all the experts for this one!

jmlanzaf · June 30, 2021 6:10PM

We KNOW you're suspicious...

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 6:15PM

@jmlanzaf said:
We KNOW you're suspicious...

Got me, I owe you for that one
But seriously, where does someone get an endless supply of these all in the same condition, and NOT ONE GRADED?

MFeld · June 30, 2021 6:20PM

The coin is nowhere close to “perfect” - it looks AU. And I’m not seeing any immediate red flags.

This coin aside, it wouldn’t be new or unusual to see counterfeit examples that were uncirculated.

Steven59 · June 30, 2021 6:34PM

Mintmark Style-001 (Blocked Serifs) used from 1909-1916 -

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 6:52PM

@MFeld said:
The coin is nowhere close to “perfect” - it looks AU. And I’m not seeing any immediate red flags.

This coin aside, it wouldn’t be new or unusual to see counterfeit examples that were uncirculated.

Well, when I said perfect example, I didn't mean to call it a Perfect coin, but I see where your coming from. I should have stated it this way, a perfect example of a circulated 09S-VDB, the seller always states "Full Bow Tie" so to my thinking these make a pretty high grade to be circulated.
I've seen several near uncirculated counterfeits, what I was thinking about this as a possibility, is it counterfeited in detail that might be on a higher level than the normally found ones. Did someone come up with some counterfeits that fixed all the normal counterfeit markers normally found on these?
So, is this one possibly a Higher Grade counterfeit?
Thanks for your comment!

MsMorrisine · June 30, 2021 6:56PM

you said they have more than one.

do they all look like they came off the same die pair?

jesbroken · June 30, 2021 7:05PM

I think it looks good to me. Has the seller ever had a counterfeit removed or labeled counterfeit? If not, some dealers specialize in a certain numismatic field and perhaps this is his. As good a bowtie as I have seen.
Jim

jesbroken · June 30, 2021 7:14PM

This dealer sells many small cents in very nice condition. While I did a past search, I did not find another 09SVDB but did find many, many Lincolns with great bow ties. They have over 2000 sales with 100% feedback. Sells many, many $3-500 coins with quite a few being silver, but most small cents. I would buy from them, at least once.
Jim

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 7:20PM

@Steven59 said:
Mintmark Style-001 (Blocked Serifs) used from 1909-1916 -

Well, the mint mark on theirs is far more below the zero and WAY below the legs of the 9's!
If we can confirm his coin is a counterfeit I'm 100% in on busted him (for sure calling him out on it)
At present are we saying there is a mint mark location problem on this coin? Now that I can see all four pictures, are we saying the mint mark location matches the # 4 obverse die?
At present the bidding is a little over $1,200.00
The title description states this,
Lincoln Cent, key date to series, Uncirculated Details, Full Bow Tie, RARE!
Sub Title reads,
"Full Wheat Ears"

koynekwest · June 30, 2021 7:29PM

The S-VDB is anything but rare.

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 7:35PM

@koynekwest said:
The S-VDB is anything but rare.

I guess when its being referred to as "Rare" is because of all the regular mint Lincoln cents (for general circulation) it has the lowest mintage @ 484,000 followed by the 31S @866,000
And its been stated that there is more counterfeits of this coin than they are the genuine coin!

MsMorrisine · June 30, 2021 7:37PM

Slow down.

It looks like MM #4 in the picture.

Do all the coins look like they came off the same die pair?

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 7:39PM

@Steven59 said:
Mintmark Style-001 (Blocked Serifs) used from 1909-1916 -

I just stole this picture, for awhile I wasn't seeing all four pictures. Its good now.
Thanks for posting it!

MarkW63 · June 30, 2021 7:43PM

@MsMorrisine said:
you said they have more than one.

do they all look like they came off the same die pair?

Well, over the course of several month they have a study supply of them being listed on ebay. They list two to maybe three every month, but they never list more than one at a time.
The titles read pretty much the same,
The pictures have the same lighting and background,
I was sure after two or three listings they would run out of them or list some in a lower grade of conditions, but they just keep cranking them out.

hbarbee · June 30, 2021 7:49PM

The seller's description indicates that it is a Details grade and has been cleaned. The seller has other coins posted with a similar description.

slider23 · June 30, 2021 7:52PM

@MsMorrisine said:
you said they have more than one.

do they all look like they came off the same die pair?

The seller has sold 7 1909 S VDB"s since 4/21. All the the coins did not come from the same die pair. All the coins the seller sold have a strong bow tie. The seller also notes some of coins as cleaned or polished.

koynekwest · June 30, 2021 8:02PM

@MarkW63 said:

@koynekwest said:
The S-VDB is anything but rare.

I guess when its being referred to as "Rare" is because of all the regular mint Lincoln cents (for general circulation) it has the lowest mintage @ 484,000 followed by the 31S @866,000
And its been stated that there is more counterfeits of this coin than they are the genuine coin!

Tons of them were saved in 1909. Mintage is important but survivability is more important. Of course the only way to get one is by purchasing one. That's been true for at least 60 years.

PerryHall · July 1, 2021 1:58AM

The seller may be dispersing a small hoard one coin at a time over a period of time. That would be my guess. This is the type of coin that I wouldn't buy raw especially on eBay.

BillJones · July 1, 2021 3:51AM

When I was a dealer, I knew another dealer who had a very large hoard (seemed like over 100) of 1909-S-VDB cents. They were all in NGC holders, and they were all assigned a low end Brown Mint State grade. I didn't like them because they all had the same look, almost a like a cookie cutter. Yet, they were certified, and since I didn't really want one, I didn't spend a lot of time with them.

There have been hoards of this coin around. The question is, are they good? Like @PerryHall, I would never buy one off of eBay, and I would most certainly never buy one that is raw.

MarkKelley · July 1, 2021 3:58AM

I had my own small hoard of eight PCGS and NGC coins and listed them all for sale at the same time. It probably raised a few suspicions but over a time I sold them all.

ricko · July 1, 2021 4:35AM

It looks authentic... did you notice if the prior listings had the same 'character' marks on the obverse? Cheers, RickO

mr1931S · July 1, 2021 4:43AM

Appears to me to be genuine.but I would absolutely need to take a real close look at the 's' to make my junior level authentication determination. Is it just me or does V.D.B. look kind of crude?

mr1931S · July 1, 2021 4:53AM

Of course the only way to get one is by purchasing one. That's been true for at least 60 years.

The only one I know who ever found one in circulation found it in the late '50's-early '60's. It had gobs of mint luster and came out of a bag of 5000 cents that the finder had bought from a Nebraska bank. I think now that the chances of finding one in circulation in the early '60's when practically every kid in town was trying to fill the 1909 to 1940 holes in his or her penny folder, were zero to none.

Treashunt · July 1, 2021 6:41AM

@mr1874 said:
Of course the only way to get one is by purchasing one. That's been true for at least 60 years.

The only one I know who ever found one in circulation found it in the late '50's-early '60's. It had gobs of mint luster and came out of a bag of 5000 cents that the finder had bought from a Nebraska bank. I think now that the chances of finding one in circulation in the early '60's when practically every kid in town was trying to fill the 1909 to 1940 holes in his or her penny folder, were zero to none.

When I was in Junior high we all collected coins.

I do know of a guy who looked in a girl's change purse and found one!
This was less than 60 years ago, but not by much.

MasonG · July 1, 2021 6:43AM

@MarkW63 said:
They've been posting two or three a month for the past several months or so, its like they've got a tub of these very rare near uncirculated 09S-VDB's

sellitstore · July 1, 2021 6:59AM

It is correct to always be suspicious when looking at an uncertified 1909S-VDB cent.

WAYNEAS · July 1, 2021 7:20AM

I like it.
What was the price range?
Wayne

MasonG · July 1, 2021 7:21AM

@sellitstore said:
It is correct to always be suspicious when looking at an uncertified 1909S-VDB cent.

Sure. And it's BS to accuse someone of possibly selling fakes because you're suspicious and you don't understand where he's getting his coins.

braddick · July 1, 2021 7:52AM

I have personally dealt with that dealer on and off of eBay. He KNOWS the coins he is selling.
Please, you're doing good work being suspicious of raw key date Lincolns, but there is a fine line between
honest inquiry and becoming a pest.

Your email to him was insulting, and I am a bit surprised you received a response in return.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:18AM

@MasonG said:

@sellitstore said:
It is correct to always be suspicious when looking at an uncertified 1909S-VDB cent.

Sure. And it's BS to accuse someone of possibly selling fakes because you're suspicious and you don't understand where he's getting his coins.

I on purpose left the link out to the listing of my comment!
I on purpose have not posted one of the sellers coin photos for several months!
I clearly stated that I didn't see anything wrong with the coin!
I clearly went out of my way to try and not fluff your feathers (Again)!
I brought the coin pictures here, on a public forum for the purpose of learning more about spotting counterfeits!
I search ebay's newly listed SVDB's, 14D, and 55 DDO's multiple times a day trying to spot fakes/counterfeits and when I find them I post them on here, then senior members report them and the listings gets removed.
Now for some reason you don't like that, most here are glad that someone is spotting them and doing what they can to help the hobby.
My title post here was only used to help me and others to learn more about the world of counterfeits, fakes, & altered coins.
If people can't make use of a quality coin forum with knowledgeable members to gain more knowledge then what good is the forum?
There was a very helpful group of photos that was posted that I saved and filed away for future use.
I stated I didn't see anything wrong with the coin, (no link) I believe that's being confirmed here, I believe that is at lest one main purpose of internet forum's! Or is this forum just used for Senior Group Home Tea Time Chats?
I very much appreciate "sellitstore's" comment, its comments like that help people scour these discussion threads who are not members get information they need to better navigate the pitfalls of the cons in this hobby!
I'm learning, I'm trying to contribute in a positive way to the hobby.
I can expect the people that has setup a 'Con' ebay shop selling fakes/counterfeits to the unsuspected to take a real dislike to me.
And I get it, you don't like me!
I've told you what I'm doing and my interest!
I've tried to appease you by removing links to coins I trying to learn from and gather more information from!
I'm very careful as to try and not even skirt forum rules!
I'm trying to respond in a positive way to as many people who take their time and make helpful contributions (post) in my forum threads.
When these forum threads get archived and get viewed by thousands of people who are not even forum members doing internet searches for 09SVDB counterfeit, fake, and altered coins that they find the information they need in my threads helpful! that's my goal, my only goal.
So, as for you, I've figured out I can't do what I do in any way as to please you, you have MAJOR objections to me interfering with the sell of fake, counterfeit, or altered coins and your the only one that has that piece of the puzzle as to the why?
Have A Wonderful Day!

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:19AM

@WAYNEAS said:
I like it.
What was the price range?
Wayne

The last time I check late last night it was around $1,200 and climbing!

TwoSides2aCoin · July 1, 2021 8:23AM

When in doubt, take a chance and submit the coin. Or, as my late mom taught: " when in doubt, don't do it". Easy enough. I know many who are suspicious. Keeps them safe.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:23AM

@sellitstore said:
It is correct to always be suspicious when looking at an uncertified 1909S-VDB cent.

After I got burned on my first purchase of a 09SVDB for $500.00 that led me to this forum a year ago it was this kind of information that help me in my second purchase of the coin, I bought it from a PCGS/NGC coin dealer and the coin was PCGS graded.
Thank you for your time to comment!

MasonG · July 1, 2021 8:40AM

@MarkW63 said:
I can expect the people that has setup a 'Con' ebay shop selling fakes/counterfeits to the unsuspected to take a real dislike to me.
And I get it, you don't like me!

Insinuating that I sell counterfeits, are you?

@MarkW63 said:
So, as for you, I've figured out I can't do what I do in any way as to please you, you have MAJOR objections to me interfering with the sell of fake, counterfeit, or altered coins and your the only one that has that piece of the puzzle as to the why?

Interfere with the sale of fake, counterfeit, or altered coins all you like- I don't give a flying $%^#. I object to you accusing people of doing so without evidence. And this:

"I did contact the seller about how they just keep pulling these RARE coins out of a tub and how questionable it is."

is an accusation.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:48AM

@mr1874 said:
Of course the only way to get one is by purchasing one. That's been true for at least 60 years.

The only one I know who ever found one in circulation found it in the late '50's-early '60's. It had gobs of mint luster and came out of a bag of 5000 cents that the finder had bought from a Nebraska bank. I think now that the chances of finding one in circulation in the early '60's when practically every kid in town was trying to fill the 1909 to 1940 holes in his or her penny folder, were zero to none.

The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the 1965 issue, I was 9 years old. My older brother and his best friend both had started coin collection and everywhere they went I went if I could. They would put there money together even if it was $5.00 or $10 dollars and they would ride their bicycles into town hit up the banks for rolls of pennies looking for two bucket list coins, the 09SVDB and the elusive 55 DDO they did this for several years, neither ever found neither, that brother still has that Lincoln cent collection, it still has that blank 09SVDB plug in to hole, I now have both! maybe someday before we die I can find him one, even if its a G4.
Thank you for the trip down memory lane!
Good Day!
That's my Dad's signature on the inside cover and our old home address (that house has been torn down now) and my Dad passed away a few years ago.
I still like to reference this old book!

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:51AM

@MarkKelley said:
I had my own small hoard of eight PCGS and NGC coins and listed them all for sale at the same time. It probably raised a few suspicions but over a time I sold them all.

So, that means in certain cases it does happen!
Thanks for your input.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:57AM

@MsMorrisine said:
Slow down.

It looks like MM #4 in the picture.

Do all the coins look like they came off the same die pair?

I agree with you that the mint mark appears to likely match the #4 die. When that picture was first posted on my end I could only see two of them, but when I quoted to the post all four came into view.
Thanks for your input!

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 8:59AM

@jesbroken said:
I think it looks good to me. Has the seller ever had a counterfeit removed or labeled counterfeit? If not, some dealers specialize in a certain numismatic field and perhaps this is his. As good a bowtie as I have seen.
Jim

Not that I'm aware of.

airplanenut · July 1, 2021 9:01AM

@MarkW63 said:
Same background!
Same condition!
Same shine!

That's because it's the same (bad) lighting. The coin looks cleaned, which takes away most unique properties a given coin's surfaces may have. Evenly lit with diffused light, cleaned copper in similar grades is going to photograph very consistently. Yes, such photos are often a trademark of sellers who hide things, but it could also be someone not great at photography. It's been noted in this thread that the seller described the coin as cleaned, which is not a hallmark of sellers using this tactic to trick buyers.

They've been posting two or three a month for the past several months or so, its like they've got a tub of these very rare near uncirculated 09S-VDB's

There are tons of these coins available, and listing them all at once will not help their selling price. On the occasion I get a lot of the same thing in on consignment, I advise the consignor that it would be best to list over many weeks. The coin is expensive because it's popular relative to how many are available, but there are still lots available. Years ago I sold 10-20% of the entire mintage of some foreign issues. Granted there were only around 100 of each made, but I sold a lot of them. In numbers you could call those rare, but it wasn't a stretch to think one person acquired a lot of them and then decided to sell, and they went through me. I don't think anyone thought I was making them in my basement just because I had a lot of them over the months/years I slowly listed them.

I did contact the seller about how they just keep pulling these RARE coins out of a tub and how questionable it is, YEP! he got mad at me, told me he was going to report me to ebay, I told him I didn't care what he did LoL! Its still very suspicious to me.

I don't owe you any information about where I get my coins. Certainly I won't tell you who consigned them. If you ask me nicely I may have some background or will at least say they're consigned. But it all depends on how you ask. "Hey, you have a lot of this valuable coin for sale, so I'm assuming something is up. Defend yourself!" will not endear you to a seller. "Hey, you have a lot of this valuable coin for sale, and I'm curious if you can share any information about where they came from--your own hoard you assembled over time (years perhaps?), a collection you bought, etc. Thank you!" That still may not get you an answer, but it doesn't just come out and put the seller on the defensive. There are a lot of bad buyers on eBay who can very quickly make a seller's life miserable. I know that I have almost no tolerance for someone who gives me any reason to think they could be trouble, even if they're actually innocent.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 9:20AM

@airplanenut said:

@MarkW63 said:
Same background!
Same condition!
Same shine!

That's because it's the same (bad) lighting. The coin looks cleaned, which takes away most unique properties a given coin's surfaces may have. Evenly lit with diffused light, cleaned copper in similar grades is going to photograph very consistently. Yes, such photos are often a trademark of sellers who hide things, but it could also be someone not great at photography. It's been noted in this thread that the seller described the coin as cleaned, which is not a hallmark of sellers using this tactic to trick buyers.

They've been posting two or three a month for the past several months or so, its like they've got a tub of these very rare near uncirculated 09S-VDB's

There are tons of these coins available, and listing them all at once will not help their selling price. On the occasion I get a lot of the same thing in on consignment, I advise the consignor that it would be best to list over many weeks. The coin is expensive because it's popular relative to how many are available, but there are still lots available. Years ago I sold 10-20% of the entire mintage of some foreign issues. Granted there were only around 100 of each made, but I sold a lot of them. In numbers you could call those rare, but it wasn't a stretch to think one person acquired a lot of them and then decided to sell, and they went through me. I don't think anyone thought I was making them in my basement just because I had a lot of them over the months/years I slowly listed them.

I did contact the seller about how they just keep pulling these RARE coins out of a tub and how questionable it is, YEP! he got mad at me, told me he was going to report me to ebay, I told him I didn't care what he did LoL! Its still very suspicious to me.

I don't owe you any information about where I get my coins. Certainly I won't tell you who consigned them. If you ask me nicely I may have some background or will at least say they're consigned. But it all depends on how you ask. "Hey, you have a lot of this valuable coin for sale, so I'm assuming something is up. Defend yourself!" will not endear you to a seller. "Hey, you have a lot of this valuable coin for sale, and I'm curious if you can share any information about where they came from--your own hoard you assembled over time (years perhaps?), a collection you bought, etc. Thank you!" That still may not get you an answer, but it doesn't just come out and put the seller on the defensive. There are a lot of bad buyers on eBay who can very quickly make a seller's life miserable. I know that I have almost no tolerance for someone who gives me any reason to think they could be trouble, even if they're actually innocent.

All good points!
I no longer have all the details from his reply but he did comment about that one coin saying something like this,
He didn't recycle pictures, or use generic photos!
That he had cracked that coin out of a graded slab! and along in that part of the comment he said he was a "Numismatist"
After a couple of back & forth message he settled down a little bit and I guess gave up on reporting me to the ebay police.
Thanks for your comment, points taken!

PerryHall · July 1, 2021 9:27AM

Many problem coins have been cracked out of problem slabs and put on eBay because the seller felt the coin would bring more as a raw coin that as a coin in a problem slab. Another example of why it's a good idea to avoid raw key-date coins on eBay.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 10:34AM

@MasonG said:

@MarkW63 said:
I can expect the people that has setup a 'Con' ebay shop selling fakes/counterfeits to the unsuspected to take a real dislike to me.
And I get it, you don't like me!

Insinuating that I sell counterfeits, are you?

@MarkW63 said:
So, as for you, I've figured out I can't do what I do in any way as to please you, you have MAJOR objections to me interfering with the sell of fake, counterfeit, or altered coins and your the only one that has that piece of the puzzle as to the why?

Interfere with the sale of fake, counterfeit, or altered coins all you like- I don't give a flying $%^#. I object to you accusing people of doing so without evidence. And this:

"I did contact the seller about how they just keep pulling these RARE coins out of a tub and how questionable it is."

is an accusation.

Nope! I have no idea if you even sell coins or not!
I stated that because I can expect those people to at best want to put me to death, now that you mention it, what other reason do you have for your strong stance against me, it obvious you don't like my discussion about fake, counterfeits, and altered coins being sold on ebay?
Take note again, read my title post, I stated that I couldn't see anything wrong with that coin!
I only questioned the repetition of style & background of the listings, condition, and other aspects of the seller's listings, those made me "Suspicious" enough to bring the photo's to the forum for an open discussion, I excluded any link to the sellers listings.
But that wasn't good enough for you, you come back with you BS comments and a bad attitude, like someone who's wife slapped them in the face with divorce papers before they've had their morning coffee.
Back to this point of me
"Insinuating that I sell counterfeits, are you?"
No, but your destine for my discussions of fakes, counterfeits, and altered coins would be that of someone who thinks its wrong to judge or interfere with anyone who does and only you know the reason for that?
You have an issue with my post, PLEASE I beg you to take it up with the forum Admin (not the moderators) and have them to ask me to STOP with these discussions and I'll never be back to this forum again for any reason.
I spend a great deal of time in an effort to contour the distribution of fake, counterfeits, & altered Lincoln cents and I only do so with the help from senior members on this forum.
If the Admin wants me gone, then I'm gone, if they deem my discussion somewhat valuable and a contribution to the forum than I'll continue to do what I do.
As for you and I, its not possible for us to share the same air space! and just to note! I do not go out of my way to hunt your forum discussion down and leave negative comments, you hunt me down, this is at lest twice we've had this run in!
Everyone else in this discussion hasn't had an issue with the thread or its contents, not one! except you! Now I'm sure they're are others who may not like it or want to be involved with it, but they just skip over it and stay out of the pot.
The last time you and I had this rodeo you got all torqued up over me posting the link to the listing of a coin I had questions about and wanted input, you stated how wrong of me that was, someone here on the forum who don't know anything about coins could use that link to report it to ebay and they poor ole seller would lose that possible sell. So, because of that run in with you I on purpose tried to post this one in a way to not fluff you all over, but that didn't work either, your still in a huff over me interfering in the coin counterfeiting under world, only you know the reasons for that and I'm not "Insinuating" anything.
All that being said, I'd love to have your input for help learning more about the world of counterfeits/fake coins and how to spot them.
This will be my last LONG post directed at you trying to explain myself, or my intentions.
Have a blessed and wonderful day,
May all your days be long and prosperous!

BuffaloIronTail · July 1, 2021 10:43AM

The above is a genuine Die #4.

Compare.

Pete

MsMorrisine · July 1, 2021 10:46AM

lock alert!

but I think you have your answers already

BuffaloIronTail · July 1, 2021 10:47AM

@MFeld said:
The coin is nowhere close to “perfect” - it looks AU. And I’m not seeing any immediate red flags.

This coin aside, it wouldn’t be new or unusual to see counterfeit examples that were uncirculated.

It looks processed. There are flat spots of wear on the cheek and jaw of Lincoln.

Pete

BuffaloIronTail · July 1, 2021 10:49AM

@jesbroken said:
I think it looks good to me. Has the seller ever had a counterfeit removed or labeled counterfeit? If not, some dealers specialize in a certain numismatic field and perhaps this is his. As good a bowtie as I have seen.
Jim

It's a "bowtie fantastic" allright!

Pete

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 11:07AM

@BuffaloIronTail said:

The above is a genuine Die #4.

Compare.

Pete

I'm seeing the same thing with this information, and that's a good thing!
This discussion has helped me to get a much better aspect of the different mint mark locations that appear on the SVDB cents, and it also has helped me to get a better understanding the seller and their lot of these coins. So, the seller seems to be on the up & up, and they're doing what works for them.
All I see that is coming out of this discussion is good except for one highly disgruntled forum member who wants to keep running through the rose bushes and complain about how the thrones cause him so much pain & grief.

MFeld · July 1, 2021 11:10AM

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@MFeld said:
The coin is nowhere close to “perfect” - it looks AU. And I’m not seeing any immediate red flags.

This coin aside, it wouldn’t be new or unusual to see counterfeit examples that were uncirculated.

It looks processed. There are flat spots of wear on the cheek and jaw of Lincoln.

Pete

I agree and now see that I didn't make my post clear, so thank you.
When I wrote "And I’m not seeing any immediate red flags." that was with respect to authenticity, but I neglected to specify that.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 11:13AM

@BuffaloIronTail said:

The above is a genuine Die #4.

Compare.

Pete

I have another question about your posted CLOSEUP of a genuine die #4 image.
In your image I can clearly see what I understand to be called a "Die Chip" in the left side of the upper loop of the "S" mint mark, my question is this and I'll call that chip a die marker, is that die marker ALWAYS present in ALL known #4 die minted SVDB's??

Here is as closeup of the image coin in the title post that I can come up.

Thanks again.

MarkW63 · July 1, 2021 11:18AM

@MsMorrisine said:
lock alert!

but I think you have your answers already

I take it that you've seen this happen before!
I think there is lots of great information coming out of this discussion, which is my only intent. I can stay on topic, and I will stay civil, but it may be to late.
As always, thanks for your time!

09S-VDB I can't see anything wrong with this coin, but I'm suspicious!

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