I have another question about your posted CLOSEUP of a genuine die #4 image.
In your image I can clearly see what I understand to be called a "Die Chip" in the left side of the upper loop of the "S" mint mark, my question is this and I'll call that chip a die marker, is that die marker ALWAYS present in ALL known #4 die minted SVDB's??
Thanks again.
I can't verify that. But it's one of the first things I zero in on along with the positions.
I imagine there are some that don't clearly show it due to dirt, strike, or some other anomaly.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@MsMorrisine said:
if it is a die chip, it would seem there was a time before the die chipped
Good point!
I've read and watched videos where the die chip was discussed, if its present some use it as a marker for a genuine coin, but! I've never seen anything where it was stated that it has to be genuine, that would be to mean they're isn't any known pieces to exist with out it (that's a question, not a statement)??
Here is the picture of the genuine die #4 coin again, I added a red arrow to clearly mark the die chip for anyone viewing the thread that may not be members.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I just found a newly ebay listed SVDB (Raw coin) that looks fine to me, but I screen shot it for an example of the #4 die struck SVDB's, its got more wear for being more circulated but the picture is good enough to see that die chip.
(pictures posted for information purposes only)
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Local dealer bought a group of S-VDB cents from a SINGLE COLLECTOR who had close to 40 of them, half slabbed and half raw. These coins are not rare. Some people specialize in dealing them. Some people specialize in collecting key dates. It borders on actionable to suggest there is anything nefarious about this listing. The coin looks good. The seller appears reputable.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
Wow, this has gotten over the top.
I'm only trying to learn more about spotting fakes and create informative threads that get archived and viewed my the general pubic.
The coin in question though I didn't see anything wrong with it and I stated that, then I basically put out a list of things that made me question things in general, I never posted the coin for anyone to take any action. What I called "Suspicious" was actually just questions that has been very well covered by the forum members here, how the seller could have what seemed to me an endless supply of nearly the same condition of the same coin, the why he was spreading them out for such a long period of time, everyone here agrees that the coin is genuine including me. I was giving more detail about the mint mark to help spot a counterfeit, I really don't see the problem, nor do I see to the why my communications with anyone outside this forum is of anyone's concern here, I made several replies back to that seller, I worked things out fairly well with him.
Now, that I've stepped on everyone's friend here it would seem that I'm not well taken or thought of by a few here. I'm going to have to rethink things a little, plus I've notice more than one forum member disrespecting "Mfeld" who I happen to know is a great guy who's willing to help, so I don't like that either.
Most here have been great, but for me it seems an impossibility to post a coin image for discussion, to put to rest my "Suspicious" (question, concerns) and gain a little more knowledge. I've learned a lot about the coin in question, the thread was running as smooth as a well oiled Sewing Machine, and then it all went in the crapper for no real reason, just plain sad.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@jmlanzaf said:
Local dealer bought a group of S-VDB cents from a SINGLE COLLECTOR who had close to 40 of them, half slabbed and half raw. These coins are not rare. Some people specialize in dealing them. Some people specialize in collecting key dates. It borders on actionable to suggest there is anything nefarious about this listing. The coin looks good. The seller appears reputable.
I 100% agree, that is why I just posted pictures of the coin, to put away any doubt, questions, (suspicions) that I had. It took only one person on this forum to turn me into some sort of EVIL human being, I disrespected a forum member, I did the unthinkable by contacting an ebay seller, that must be an unforgivable sin of the highest order.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Okay, I'm done here.
Consider this thread my last will & testament to this forum.
I want to think everyone here that has a reasonable mindset, I'll be nice to the unreasonable and refrain from saying anything at all.
This is to little of a niche of tightly woven members and its not possible for me to fit in here, I've tried, and its getting trying, invaders are NOT WELCOME HERE!
I'm trying to help, but its more harmful then help.
I've been on several forums sense around 2000 and this one has been the hardest to deal with.
The trouble isn't worth the grief!
Good Night All!
Sleep Well!
You have officially chased me off, you did your job well, be proud, carry on.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
Wow, this has gotten over the top.
I'm only trying to learn more about spotting fakes and create informative threads that get archived and viewed my the general pubic.
The coin in question though I didn't see anything wrong with it and I stated that, then I basically put out a list of things that made me question things in general, I never posted the coin for anyone to take any action. What I called "Suspicious" was actually just questions that has been very well covered by the forum members here, how the seller could have what seemed to me an endless supply of nearly the same condition of the same coin, the why he was spreading them out for such a long period of time, everyone here agrees that the coin is genuine including me. I was giving more detail about the mint mark to help spot a counterfeit, I really don't see the problem, nor do I see to the why my communications with anyone outside this forum is of anyone's concern here, I made several replies back to that seller, I worked things out fairly well with him.
Now, that I've stepped on everyone's friend here it would seem that I'm not well taken or thought of by a few here. I'm going to have to rethink things a little, plus I've notice more than one forum member disrespecting "Mfeld" who I happen to know is a great guy who's willing to help, so I don't like that either.
Most here have been great, but for me it seems an impossibility to post a coin image for discussion, to put to rest my "Suspicious" (question, concerns) and gain a little more knowledge. I've learned a lot about the coin in question, the thread was running as smooth as a well oiled Sewing Machine, and then it all went in the crapper for no real reason, just plain sad.
Your original post reads as mocking the ebay seller. You repeatedly offered suspicions that had nothing to do with the coin itself. It was not a simple question of, "does this coin look okay?"
You could have asked about the coin without all the drama and alleged circumstantial evidence that the seller was suspicious.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
Wow, this has gotten over the top.
I'm only trying to learn more about spotting fakes and create informative threads that get archived and viewed my the general pubic.
The coin in question though I didn't see anything wrong with it and I stated that, then I basically put out a list of things that made me question things in general, I never posted the coin for anyone to take any action. What I called "Suspicious" was actually just questions that has been very well covered by the forum members here, how the seller could have what seemed to me an endless supply of nearly the same condition of the same coin, the why he was spreading them out for such a long period of time, everyone here agrees that the coin is genuine including me. I was giving more detail about the mint mark to help spot a counterfeit, I really don't see the problem, nor do I see to the why my communications with anyone outside this forum is of anyone's concern here, I made several replies back to that seller, I worked things out fairly well with him.
Now, that I've stepped on everyone's friend here it would seem that I'm not well taken or thought of by a few here. I'm going to have to rethink things a little, plus I've notice more than one forum member disrespecting "Mfeld" who I happen to know is a great guy who's willing to help, so I don't like that either.
Most here have been great, but for me it seems an impossibility to post a coin image for discussion, to put to rest my "Suspicious" (question, concerns) and gain a little more knowledge. I've learned a lot about the coin in question, the thread was running as smooth as a well oiled Sewing Machine, and then it all went in the crapper for no real reason, just plain sad.
More drama.
You could have posted the pictures and asked if it looked good.
No one is suggesting you leave or not post coins for opinions. We just suggested there was a more polite (to the seller) way to ask the question.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@Steven59 said:
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
You don't have to bow down to opinions. However, respect and politeness help maintain the social fabric.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Steven59 said:
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
You don't have to bow down to opinions. However, respect and politeness help maintain the social fabric.
Sorry - ! won't fall for your trolling - you are just trying to get me banned - get a life.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@jmlanzaf said:
You could have posted the pictures and asked if it looked good.
Exactly. Post a picture with the comment "Does this look good to you? Why or why not?"
It's not rocket surgery.
I posted the pictures!
I cropped out the seller users name!
I on purpose DID NOT INCLUDE A LINK TO THE LISTING!
I included a bit of information about a personal contact with the seller that I had nearly 3 months ago!
The title thread was only about the coin, it was only about picking at the details to the good or to the bad!
All the rest of the chatter in that post was just to clarify the how I came across it, and the questions I had around the other ones like it that I seen being posted for a VERY LONG TIME! every time they post one I get an Ebay notice about it!
Some here has let the chatter of my post steer them away from the fact it was ONLY PICTURES OF A COIN! but some felt the need to defend an unknown ebay seller, to whom I had somewhat patched things up with.
I was glad to have confirmation that the coin was genuine, because I had studied it, and the 7 plus others over and over and I didn't see anything wrong them.
It was ONLY PICTURES of a coin!
I was wanting people here to walk me through what was right about it, or what may have turned out to be wrong about it.
Is the seller of that coin on this forum? are they posting comments in this thread? I didn't think so.
So, If I mention a bad encounter with a local bank teller and I verbally rip their a** the forum members here are going to come down on me and tell me how bad of a person I am, or go thought my comments not for content but find one where they figure out how old I am and then let me know I was being childish and I was old enough to know better, really?
I only posted pictures of a coin, I only did so for a discussion about the coin, my text listed puzzling questions about the sellers actions to which the reasonable here were GREAT to help me with those puzzle pieces.
I was responding in a positive way to everyone that was commenting, I was be friendly, I clicked the likes, the agrees, I gladly excepted valid points.
I posted pictures with NO LINKS, no seller information on purpose to avoid what happened in this thread.
But, my title post (me really) got unwarranted comments of "BS" (Bull Shit, lets just say it)
I do not see I was in the wrong with posting pictures of the coin, nor do I see it done in a childish manner.
I'm always on pins & needles around here, there is people who really are lurking to lash out at me, to make a big deal out of some wrong I've supposedly done and they can't wait.
Strip out what was made to look wrong, and you're looking at a few pictures of a coin I found online, it was only a request to help to discern the authenticity of the coin. Most here did that, but others don't feel I had the right to have my own "Suspicions" answers to some questions that happened over a long period of time, as these coins just keep popping up, I'm grateful for the input from the reasonable they put my question/concerns all to rest. But, that leaves the unreasonable very unhappy, they didn't like a thread of mine going on with such a positive content, so they knew just how to twist things to ruin it, they knew just how to get the members here on their side of seeing my evil intent.
When I first came to this forum I was called a "Counterfeiter" I took a lot of heat, I stated it was like I crash landed,
MFeld must have felt sorry for me because he knew my real intent and it was him that suggested I come to this forum for advice, so he chimed in in my defense, that was over a year ago.
Now its been over a year and some here will go out of their way to make a person feel like they crashed landed on an alien planet.
Why is their so much concerned for a seller that I had a person encounter with months ago, that I had already work things out with (to some degree)?
No, its not rocket surgery, nor is it to just look at my title comment at general information, no links to the seller or the listing and discuss the coin!
How did this become so complicated? It must be my choice of wording.
Someone here has blown my title post WAY out of proportion, and then another member here calls me childish tand I was old enough to know better, what the hell is that, if I had said that about another forum member I'm certain I would have been 3-1/2 minutes until being band and blocked on the forum.
When I was growing up the one thing my Dad would go PURE EVIL over was disrespecting him, ole' my god the sky's got dark and the world became a very dark and ugly place to fear (be very afraid) for several hours while he screamed, yelled, and threw things, and things turned even more ugly if you shed a single tear, or if you crapped your pants!
But that was my father, he demanded respect, and HELL had no fury like he did if I didn't respect him!
So, here we are I'm the child and somehow I've disrespected my parents!!! I don't think so, it was only pictures of a coin.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@Steven59 said:
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
You don't have to bow down to opinions. However, respect and politeness help maintain the social fabric.
Sorry - ! won't fall for your trolling - you are just trying to get me banned - get a life.
I edited the content of this post because I directed it to the wrong person, I'm very sorry for that!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@MarkW63 said:
LoL! how do you get I'm trying to get you banned?
See, here again its all turned around to make me the EVIL one here, with EVIL intent towards everyone, why do I want you banned when I'm working on exiting this alien planet.
Sometime things here just don't make any sense.
Mark - I was not in anyway talking about you - I like your posts on the counterfeits/fake coins.
If you go back and see I was replying to "jmlanzaf" who for some reason always likes to talk down to people. I guess it's his high post count that makes him feel like he can berate people. Who knows, who cares. But please - I like your posts and always try to add info to them - NEVER anything else.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@jmlanzaf said:
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
And just to show you @MarkW63, I was not saying anything about you. - this is how classless @jmlanzaf is by trying to make fun of my daughter and wife - if anybody should look in the mirror it should be him!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@MarkW63 said:
LoL! how do you get I'm trying to get you banned?
Mark - I was not in anyway talking about you - I like your posts on the counterfeits/fake coins.
If you go back and see I was replying to "jmlanzaf" who for some reason always likes to talk down to people. I guess it's his high post count that makes him feel like he can berate people. Who knows, who cares. But please - I like your posts and always try to add info to them - NEVER anything else.
For that I'm very SORRY! I will edit and remove that post right now!
Thank you for being reasonable!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Your intentions are good and the forum is here for education.
No need to tuck your tail between your legs and run away.
Good chance things would have been different if you had just posted the coin photo with a title of "Opinions on this 09svd"
Once you imply that you are "suspicious" in the title and then mention it is an ebay seller, this is where the problem starts.
There are some sharp folks here nd it only takes them seconds to find a listing.
If you don't mention ebay the coin could be listed on any site and makes it a little harder to track down.
It could also be a coin in your personal collection that you just want more info on.
The information of it being on ebay or that you are suspicious is not needed to get an opinion on the coin.
You have tried to be more sensitive and make adjustments about your posts but it can be a touchy subject.
You may need to make further adjustments to your posts.
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
Where did you ever get I got burnt buying a counterfeit off ebay? That deal I made wasn't off ebay, had it been I could have went through my Paypal and got my money back (if not ebay) that was a person to person deal, not ebay. I've gotten $200.00 of my $400.00 back and had a promise for $200.00 more due around the first part of March, that never came. I then took a pair of metal side cutters to the coin and cut in halve and sent it back to the seller, I know that was a very disrespectful to that poor seller (NOTE not an ebay seller).
I've made my piece with that ebay seller.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@Steven59 said:
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
You don't have to bow down to opinions. However, respect and politeness help maintain the social fabric.
Sorry - ! won't fall for your trolling - you are just trying to get me banned - get a life.
Why would I be trying to get you banned?
And I think my point is valid and not at all inflammatory.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MarkW63 said:
LoL! how do you get I'm trying to get you banned?
See, here again its all turned around to make me the EVIL one here, with EVIL intent towards everyone, why do I want you banned when I'm working on exiting this alien planet.
Sometime things here just don't make any sense.
Mark - I was not in anyway talking about you - I like your posts on the counterfeits/fake coins.
If you go back and see I was replying to "jmlanzaf" who for some reason always likes to talk down to people. I guess it's his high post count that makes him feel like he can berate people. Who knows, who cares. But please - I like your posts and always try to add info to them - NEVER anything else.
I didn't berate you or say anything about your wife or daughter. It was a hypothetical question based on your assertion that people opinions should be ignored. You prove my point. You want people to treat your family with politeness and respect. In the context of this thread, that same courtesy should be extended to the dealer.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The first "Official Red Book US Coin Guide" that came into our family was the_ 1965 issue, I was 9 years old._ My older
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
Where did you ever get I got burnt buying a counterfeit off ebay? That deal I made wasn't off ebay, had it been I could have went through my Paypal and got my money back (if not ebay) that was a person to person deal, not ebay. I've gotten $200.00 of my $400.00 back and had a promise for $200.00 more due around the first part of March, that never came. I then took a pair of metal side cutters to the coin and cut in halve and sent it back to the seller, I know that was a very disrespectful to that poor seller (NOTE not an ebay seller).
I've made my piece with that ebay seller.
Ok. Sorry. Not an ebay seller. But my point stands. This has become a crusade. But innocent till proven guilty.
I'm not sure why you are overreacting to what was a very calm, constructive suggestion.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
And just to show you @MarkW63, I was not saying anything about you. - this is how classless @jmlanzaf is by trying to make fun of my daughter and wife - if anybody should look in the mirror it should be him!
That is not what that says. It asks whether you would care if someone did. Your response proves you would, as we all would expect.
In fact, my post says the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This seller sells a lot of expensive RAW coins, many of which one would expect to find in plastic. Also a lot of of the same coins, i.e. 1917 SLQ. Also not great pictures.
A lot of coins old appear to have been submitted to a TPG but came with a details grade, then broken out. Certainly not dishonest, but a good tell as to the seller's strategy, which appears to be successful. The seller gives his own (I believe) optimistic opinions on condition, but it is difficult to know if there is any attempt to mislead, or simple seller puffery.
I appreciate the OP's position, and his efforts made to point out possible eBay sellers to avoid. Also although the OP did not provide a direct link, enough date was available for anyone to examine this seller for themselves.
Comments
I can't verify that. But it's one of the first things I zero in on along with the positions.
I imagine there are some that don't clearly show it due to dirt, strike, or some other anomaly.
Pete
if it is a die chip, it would seem there was a time before the die chipped
Good point!
I've read and watched videos where the die chip was discussed, if its present some use it as a marker for a genuine coin, but! I've never seen anything where it was stated that it has to be genuine, that would be to mean they're isn't any known pieces to exist with out it (that's a question, not a statement)??
Here is the picture of the genuine die #4 coin again, I added a red arrow to clearly mark the die chip for anyone viewing the thread that may not be members.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I just found a newly ebay listed SVDB (Raw coin) that looks fine to me, but I screen shot it for an example of the #4 die struck SVDB's, its got more wear for being more circulated but the picture is good enough to see that die chip.
(pictures posted for information purposes only)
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
>
Then you're old enough to know when to be respectful and to have manners when unsure of yourself.
@MarkW63 Here is as closeup of the image coin in the title post that I can come up.
Although somewhat blurred the die chip seems to be in the same position as in the authentic #4. Don't know if it is a diagnostic or not.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Where did I get off that base (really)?
I don't believe nor meant to start anything with any forum member. The other person has done the same thing to me twice now, and I assertively stated my case. He's the one the clearly repeatedly calls what I'm doing BS, and it doesn't matter how I post the title post, he's upset, both threads were going along perfectly fine, until said person drops in.
I get I'm the newest member in these topics, so I get that I'm the outcast, but now it seems that these forum disturbances are all my fault. So, other older members has more verbal rights than others, and if that's the forum rules then I guess I'll have to adjust to that.
Thanks for comment.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Local dealer bought a group of S-VDB cents from a SINGLE COLLECTOR who had close to 40 of them, half slabbed and half raw. These coins are not rare. Some people specialize in dealing them. Some people specialize in collecting key dates. It borders on actionable to suggest there is anything nefarious about this listing. The coin looks good. The seller appears reputable.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I tend to agree. "Suspicious" should be based on actual evidence.
To the OP: You're really only suspicious because you were personally burned by a counterfeit on eBay and have become a bit obsessed with it. There are plenty of fakes out there to be found. Have at it. But you should start with the presumption of innocence, not guilt.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Wow, this has gotten over the top.
I'm only trying to learn more about spotting fakes and create informative threads that get archived and viewed my the general pubic.
The coin in question though I didn't see anything wrong with it and I stated that, then I basically put out a list of things that made me question things in general, I never posted the coin for anyone to take any action. What I called "Suspicious" was actually just questions that has been very well covered by the forum members here, how the seller could have what seemed to me an endless supply of nearly the same condition of the same coin, the why he was spreading them out for such a long period of time, everyone here agrees that the coin is genuine including me. I was giving more detail about the mint mark to help spot a counterfeit, I really don't see the problem, nor do I see to the why my communications with anyone outside this forum is of anyone's concern here, I made several replies back to that seller, I worked things out fairly well with him.
Now, that I've stepped on everyone's friend here it would seem that I'm not well taken or thought of by a few here. I'm going to have to rethink things a little, plus I've notice more than one forum member disrespecting "Mfeld" who I happen to know is a great guy who's willing to help, so I don't like that either.
Most here have been great, but for me it seems an impossibility to post a coin image for discussion, to put to rest my "Suspicious" (question, concerns) and gain a little more knowledge. I've learned a lot about the coin in question, the thread was running as smooth as a well oiled Sewing Machine, and then it all went in the crapper for no real reason, just plain sad.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I 100% agree, that is why I just posted pictures of the coin, to put away any doubt, questions, (suspicions) that I had. It took only one person on this forum to turn me into some sort of EVIL human being, I disrespected a forum member, I did the unthinkable by contacting an ebay seller, that must be an unforgivable sin of the highest order.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Okay, I'm done here.
Consider this thread my last will & testament to this forum.
I want to think everyone here that has a reasonable mindset, I'll be nice to the unreasonable and refrain from saying anything at all.
This is to little of a niche of tightly woven members and its not possible for me to fit in here, I've tried, and its getting trying, invaders are NOT WELCOME HERE!
I'm trying to help, but its more harmful then help.
I've been on several forums sense around 2000 and this one has been the hardest to deal with.
The trouble isn't worth the grief!
Good Night All!
Sleep Well!
You have officially chased me off, you did your job well, be proud, carry on.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Your original post reads as mocking the ebay seller. You repeatedly offered suspicions that had nothing to do with the coin itself. It was not a simple question of, "does this coin look okay?"
You could have asked about the coin without all the drama and alleged circumstantial evidence that the seller was suspicious.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
More drama.
You could have posted the pictures and asked if it looked good.
No one is suggesting you leave or not post coins for opinions. We just suggested there was a more polite (to the seller) way to ask the question.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Exactly. Post a picture with the comment "Does this look good to you? Why or why not?"
It's not rocket surgery.
Oh
We’re not a niche.
We get on each other’s nerves quite well.
Just sit back and let it wash over you.
You’re fitting in fine.
Or brain science...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
"You were disrespectful to the seller - at least in my opinion."
I never understood why we live our lives having to bow down to others opinions - I thought we lived our lives to our own opinions - everything else would be a mutual discussion, care to join in?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Sure, but I thought that went without saying.
So, it wouldn't bother you if someone went up to your daughter or wife and offered an insulting opinion?
You don't have to bow down to opinions. However, respect and politeness help maintain the social fabric.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Sorry - ! won't fall for your trolling - you are just trying to get me banned - get a life.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I posted the pictures!
I cropped out the seller users name!
I on purpose DID NOT INCLUDE A LINK TO THE LISTING!
I included a bit of information about a personal contact with the seller that I had nearly 3 months ago!
The title thread was only about the coin, it was only about picking at the details to the good or to the bad!
All the rest of the chatter in that post was just to clarify the how I came across it, and the questions I had around the other ones like it that I seen being posted for a VERY LONG TIME! every time they post one I get an Ebay notice about it!
Some here has let the chatter of my post steer them away from the fact it was ONLY PICTURES OF A COIN! but some felt the need to defend an unknown ebay seller, to whom I had somewhat patched things up with.
I was glad to have confirmation that the coin was genuine, because I had studied it, and the 7 plus others over and over and I didn't see anything wrong them.
It was ONLY PICTURES of a coin!
I was wanting people here to walk me through what was right about it, or what may have turned out to be wrong about it.
Is the seller of that coin on this forum? are they posting comments in this thread? I didn't think so.
So, If I mention a bad encounter with a local bank teller and I verbally rip their a** the forum members here are going to come down on me and tell me how bad of a person I am, or go thought my comments not for content but find one where they figure out how old I am and then let me know I was being childish and I was old enough to know better, really?
I only posted pictures of a coin, I only did so for a discussion about the coin, my text listed puzzling questions about the sellers actions to which the reasonable here were GREAT to help me with those puzzle pieces.
I was responding in a positive way to everyone that was commenting, I was be friendly, I clicked the likes, the agrees, I gladly excepted valid points.
I posted pictures with NO LINKS, no seller information on purpose to avoid what happened in this thread.
But, my title post (me really) got unwarranted comments of "BS" (Bull Shit, lets just say it)
I do not see I was in the wrong with posting pictures of the coin, nor do I see it done in a childish manner.
I'm always on pins & needles around here, there is people who really are lurking to lash out at me, to make a big deal out of some wrong I've supposedly done and they can't wait.
Strip out what was made to look wrong, and you're looking at a few pictures of a coin I found online, it was only a request to help to discern the authenticity of the coin. Most here did that, but others don't feel I had the right to have my own "Suspicions" answers to some questions that happened over a long period of time, as these coins just keep popping up, I'm grateful for the input from the reasonable they put my question/concerns all to rest. But, that leaves the unreasonable very unhappy, they didn't like a thread of mine going on with such a positive content, so they knew just how to twist things to ruin it, they knew just how to get the members here on their side of seeing my evil intent.
When I first came to this forum I was called a "Counterfeiter" I took a lot of heat, I stated it was like I crash landed,
MFeld must have felt sorry for me because he knew my real intent and it was him that suggested I come to this forum for advice, so he chimed in in my defense, that was over a year ago.
Now its been over a year and some here will go out of their way to make a person feel like they crashed landed on an alien planet.
Why is their so much concerned for a seller that I had a person encounter with months ago, that I had already work things out with (to some degree)?
No, its not rocket surgery, nor is it to just look at my title comment at general information, no links to the seller or the listing and discuss the coin!
How did this become so complicated? It must be my choice of wording.
Someone here has blown my title post WAY out of proportion, and then another member here calls me childish tand I was old enough to know better, what the hell is that, if I had said that about another forum member I'm certain I would have been 3-1/2 minutes until being band and blocked on the forum.
When I was growing up the one thing my Dad would go PURE EVIL over was disrespecting him, ole' my god the sky's got dark and the world became a very dark and ugly place to fear (be very afraid) for several hours while he screamed, yelled, and threw things, and things turned even more ugly if you shed a single tear, or if you crapped your pants!
But that was my father, he demanded respect, and HELL had no fury like he did if I didn't respect him!
So, here we are I'm the child and somehow I've disrespected my parents!!! I don't think so, it was only pictures of a coin.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I edited the content of this post because I directed it to the wrong person, I'm very sorry for that!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Mark - I was not in anyway talking about you - I like your posts on the counterfeits/fake coins.
If you go back and see I was replying to "jmlanzaf" who for some reason always likes to talk down to people. I guess it's his high post count that makes him feel like he can berate people. Who knows, who cares. But please - I like your posts and always try to add info to them - NEVER anything else.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
And just to show you @MarkW63, I was not saying anything about you. - this is how classless @jmlanzaf is by trying to make fun of my daughter and wife - if anybody should look in the mirror it should be him!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
For that I'm very SORRY! I will edit and remove that post right now!
Thank you for being reasonable!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Your intentions are good and the forum is here for education.
No need to tuck your tail between your legs and run away.
Good chance things would have been different if you had just posted the coin photo with a title of "Opinions on this 09svd"
Once you imply that you are "suspicious" in the title and then mention it is an ebay seller, this is where the problem starts.
There are some sharp folks here nd it only takes them seconds to find a listing.
If you don't mention ebay the coin could be listed on any site and makes it a little harder to track down.
It could also be a coin in your personal collection that you just want more info on.
The information of it being on ebay or that you are suspicious is not needed to get an opinion on the coin.
You have tried to be more sensitive and make adjustments about your posts but it can be a touchy subject.
You may need to make further adjustments to your posts.
Where did you ever get I got burnt buying a counterfeit off ebay? That deal I made wasn't off ebay, had it been I could have went through my Paypal and got my money back (if not ebay) that was a person to person deal, not ebay. I've gotten $200.00 of my $400.00 back and had a promise for $200.00 more due around the first part of March, that never came. I then took a pair of metal side cutters to the coin and cut in halve and sent it back to the seller, I know that was a very disrespectful to that poor seller (NOTE not an ebay seller).
I've made my piece with that ebay seller.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
First I wound not buy a 09-S VDB Lincoln cent RAW.
If it's genuine it's most likely been cracked out of a details holder.
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coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
Why would I be trying to get you banned?
And I think my point is valid and not at all inflammatory.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I didn't berate you or say anything about your wife or daughter. It was a hypothetical question based on your assertion that people opinions should be ignored. You prove my point. You want people to treat your family with politeness and respect. In the context of this thread, that same courtesy should be extended to the dealer.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ok. Sorry. Not an ebay seller. But my point stands. This has become a crusade. But innocent till proven guilty.
I'm not sure why you are overreacting to what was a very calm, constructive suggestion.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That second part really isn't true. There are thousands of SVDB cents that have not been sent in yet.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That is not what that says. It asks whether you would care if someone did. Your response proves you would, as we all would expect.
In fact, my post says the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Reasoning with people who are acting emotionally doesn't usually work out all that well.
Thanks
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
IDK. There's just too much drama on this forum lately.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I love this thread!
This seller sells a lot of expensive RAW coins, many of which one would expect to find in plastic. Also a lot of of the same coins, i.e. 1917 SLQ. Also not great pictures.
A lot of coins old appear to have been submitted to a TPG but came with a details grade, then broken out. Certainly not dishonest, but a good tell as to the seller's strategy, which appears to be successful. The seller gives his own (I believe) optimistic opinions on condition, but it is difficult to know if there is any attempt to mislead, or simple seller puffery.
I appreciate the OP's position, and his efforts made to point out possible eBay sellers to avoid. Also although the OP did not provide a direct link, enough date was available for anyone to examine this seller for themselves.