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Early $5 GTG (Revealed in Comment)
Proofmorgan
Posts: 813 ✭✭✭✭✭
Grade and rationale. CAC or no CAC?
Full disclosure: Not my coin, but an interesting study in the grading standards of early gold.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
12
Comments
Au58 is my guess, beautiful coin.
As you wanted rational; there are some areas of both the obv and rev that show some signs of rub. However I am not at all familiar with the nuances of early gold like this so its quite possible that those are areas of strike weakness and not wear.
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I agree with @coinbuf
Looks all of AU58, and she is a beauty!
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Todd - BHNC #242
58+
Commercial 61
61 would have been my guess also, though the strike (especially the obverse hair) is so hammered that I almost wondered if it is a trick question, ie, a bit of tooling.
58
61
Outstanding coin, I'll guess 62
58 would be very surprising imo
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
AU58 due to the light wear on the high points.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm going to go with AU58+, but it may very well be in an MS-62 holder due to its lovely appearance. The obverse strike is really good, especially in the Liberty's longer hair area. My AU-58 call is due to the wear on the high points - front/lower tip & a couple folds of Liberty's cap and slight wear on her forehead curl, above her eye and on her cheek. The reverse looks fully MS. What looks like wear on the eagle's breast feathers, top & tip of right (facing) wing, and a couple of the clouds looks to be due to typical strike weakness in those areas. A lovely, lovely example of the Small Star variety.
Surfaces look processed to get to the MS61 grade
Latin American Collection
62
AU-58 that is in an MS-62 holder.
58 Beautiful coin!
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Edited to add "CAC or No CAC"
I would agree with the AU58 grade... slight wear on high points, ding on the cheek and some field chatter. Looks like a slight die clash on the reverse. Cheers, RickO
Slabbed as MS-61, probably received a sticker. 1799 $5 Half Eagles are a very interesting year. Yours is BD-6; R-5, 40 - 50 known.
63 - Green bean
It really needs to be seen in hand to offer the best possible thoughts as to the grade. I see it as processed as well... the real issue is how well the surfaces survived and what the fields and high points look like as the coin is tilted. There are conflicting attributes that could support an AU or MS grade. The hair and neck look good and support a potential MS grade while other high points either sustained cabinet friction, slight wear which may be further confirmed by looking at the fields or perhaps there is some weakness attributable to the strike. It is still a nice coin regardless of what side of the grading fence one may prefer.
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58 CAC, or 61 no CAC.
This is a great GTG.
After further review I think it could go 63.
Ms-60
Because it’s one of my favorite grades
Beautiful coin BTW, love that date
It's all about what the people want...
61 Cac
As a buyer it’s no better than VG. As a seller it’s uncirculated. My rationale is I’m a cheapskate 🤪
The coin is in a rattler, so that might have some effect on the grade on the holder. What was once AU58 is now sometimes MS 61/62. It's a bit hard to tell from the photos, but this coin looks like it was likely stripped of its original surfaces somewhere along the way, as so many were, in the attempt to get a better grade. Most of the ones on the market have this look.
The low-angle lighting technique makes evaluation of luster difficult. It could go as high as MS63, but I'm thinking it's in an AU58 holder, but could easily get into an MS61 or MS62 holder today. I'll guess no CAC based on what I see as processed surfaces.
I’d be pleased to own it
Photograde's 63 looks very similar plus the pic is bright diminishing the overall appeal I could see 64 but will stay at 63.
AU58 Awesome coin!
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62 CAC
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
MS63. And I'd guess it stickers. In a rattler, it looks like?
I love it... and if it's in a rattler, I'd give up a lot for it, but I know that isn't my playground.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
My first guess was AU-50, but after a closer look, I'll go AU-55. To me, it looks to have at least three spots of wear, and those bag marks are unfortunate. Without seeing it in hand or with secondary lighting, I can't tell if the darker colors are from lustrous surfaces or from discolorization.
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58
Anybody saying AU...
Old gold gets breaks. Say it with me.
Old gold gets breaks.
Old gold gets breaks.
Old gold gets breaks.
Old gold gets breaks.
Old gold gets breaks.
Old gold gets breaks.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I would guess 62. Old gold gets breaks.
That is a rattler holder. Net graded 55
Latin American Collection
Beautiful coin. I hope it gets a 62+ with a gold bean.
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I'll pitch tent in the 58 camp.
Dang! I guess that isn’t wear then...
Sweet coin!
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I thought all the “processed” comments were a bit harsh, given the lighting of the images. I still think those areas I mentioned look like wear vs strike softness in those areas, but then again, I’m only going by an couple of images. Lovely coin nonetheless.
I totally agree with you…..and we both know this series very well. The lines between AU and MS early gold are very blurred it seems.
Very nice coin.
As far as the accuracy of the grading consider this; the price of the coin in AU-58 is about $25K-$30K. The price in MS-63 is $80K-$90K. The minor amount of rub that drops the coin from MS to AU is huge with respect to pricing of the coin.
Cool. Now, I’d love to see some great photos of this coin. I bet it looks way better than the photos suggested.
More pictures of this very nice coin would be great for follow up discussion. These images were challenging to "read", and appeared similar to old flatbed scans.
The Devices look frosty with no discernible circulation wear, rather the flatish areas at the very highest points look like unstruck planchet surface, details never there rather than worn away, combined with the tiniest amount of contact friction and differential toning from being carefully placed on cloth pads and in collectors' envelopes and looked at once in a while for a couple hundred years.
Likewise, the fields appear semi-prooflike and somewhat reflective, and this combined with nice die clash marks on both sides might have been interpreted by some respondents as looking like 'processing' of a truly circulated AU piece that is commonly seen nowadays.
There are stray contact marks here and there and these seem to be typical bag marks from other coins, not the multitude of tiny marks and rubs from time in commerce.
Other pictures of this type in AU 58 and 55 would be educational, too.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The sole other 63 CAC for reference/discussion
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The second coin you posted is far superior
Latin American Collection
I wouldn't kick either out of bed.
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The second coin looks nicer. The chin is mark free and the color looks better. But the photo techniques are completely different which can easily account for the differences minus the mark on the chin.
As others have mentioned it’s impossible to make an accurate comparison unless you have pictures of both coins photographed under the same conditions. That said based on the photographs we do have the second coin appears superior with respect to mint luster and contact marks. I think Steven A. would agree…LOL.