I'm currently at 5 coins towards my set of 7 Caballitos though having watched the prices at auction this month from the sidelines I think my progress will be stalled for a bit.
Meanwhile this piece is among my favorites. In hand the color changes appearance quite a lot depending on the lighting and viewing angle, but the new pictures capture the coin at its most psychedelic possible coloring. Most of the time if the color is visible, the lavender tones dominate.
In our favourite section “Coins you have never seen before, coins you are not likely to see ever again”, this specimen. Coins from the Early Series of the Charles and Johanna series for Mexico City are all rare, particularly lower denominations as the 4 reales were minted in larger numbers to ship to Spain. Assayer F is perhaps the rarest of all assayers in the series. His name and tenure dates are unknown. Cori Sedwick Downing in her paper “The Charles and Joanna Coinage of Mexico City, 1536-1571: A Research Study on the Early Series and Introduction to the Late Series” (unknown to me the date of publication) wrote that Assayer F minted ½, 1, 2, and 4 reales. “There are approximately 26 coins known in collections and auctions, with the majority from the “Golden Fleece wreck” (ca. 1550), one from the “Ines de Soto wreck” (ca. 1557), and none from the Spanish 1554 Fleet (Padre Island)”. She describes the main type of 1-real coins: Latin M-F flanking shield and left-leaning rhomboid banner between pillars. In her paper “An Overview of Charles and Johanna Coinage from Mexico City Mint” (USMexNA Journal 2017) she wrote ”I have cataloged only 36 Assayer F coins, in all denominations”. As we can see, there were few more coins described between both papers. Kent Ponterio in his paper “The Coinage of Mexico Struck During the Reign of Charles and Johanna” (revised June 2009) he stated that Assayer F is the third assayer of the Early Series. “Coins of this assayer are anywhere from extremely rare to unique” and suggests he was an interim assayer sometime in 1540 or 1541. He suggests 3 possible candidates: Francisco de Loaysa, Esteban Franco (also favoured by Ms Downing), or less likely, Francisco Rodriguez (from the Santo Domingo mint). As of today, is the only real graded by NGC for the assayer and type, therefore Top Pop.
There isn't a whole lot of Mexican Colonial copper, and what there is generally comes in wretched condition. These are both condition census and finest currently certified (and perhaps finest known). And I did pay up for them!
@pruebas just received it yesterday. But graded, VF. As far as I am concerned , beautiful. Always wanted one, now I have it! The problem is that now i need the type I... Never ends.
There isn't a whole lot of Mexican Colonial copper, and what there is generally comes in wretched condition. These are both condition census and finest currently certified (and perhaps finest known). And I did pay up for them!
nice coins
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
There isn't a whole lot of Mexican Colonial copper, and what there is generally comes in wretched condition. These are both condition census and finest currently certified (and perhaps finest known). And I did pay up for them!
Jgenn Nice 63 MM , hard coin to find. Here is an example of a 63MM that is an altered assayer, fooled me 30 years ago at a Big Regional Coin Show. You have got to be careful with that date , lots of altered coins out there. Yours is really nice!
@Crazy8s said:
Jgenn Nice 63 MM , hard coin to find. Here is an example of a 63MM that is an altered assayer, fooled me 30 years ago at a Big Regional Coin Show. You have got to be careful with that date , lots of altered coins out there. Yours is really nice!
Wow, thanks for sharing. It's so useful to see examples like this.
I used to own this coin, but sold it a few years back in a collection purge.
It is presently the only genuine 8R of this DAM known--XF40, net graded down to VF35 due to 2 small chops.
The only other unique Republic 8R is the Norweb 1839-Ho, but that was an illegitimate issue.
Here's a nice AU53ish 8R with fun color. Images using both axial and overhead lighting
>
Haven't posted in a few months, but did end-up getting that 1778 into NGC plastic. AU53, as expected, but unfortunately with a major mistake in assayer attribution (1778-FM instead of 1778-FF)
I also added a couple of 1809 PCGS 8 Reales with varieties not specified on the holder:
1809 TH/HJ in PCGS 61 (confirmed with Yonaka)
And an 1809 HJ/TH in PCGS VF25. Not as strong of an O/A as my previous example, but enough to get it attributed
Added a nice and colorful 1808 Ferdinand VII in PCGS MS63 (Portrait Type A, open mouth sub variety) from @Boosibri
@pruebas said:
OK, I found something to post that I don't think I have shown before.
All proof, and pretty rare as such. Too bad the 5c has a scratch.
I hope to have an update on this series later this year....... Stay tuned.
I have two of these in my world collection and there are varieties in the series.
I loved their designs at first sight...tomorrow morning ill image in better light congrats nice specimens.
Here is one I got off the Boards here, and promised I would post the seller after getting slabbed. I
only regret that he also had a 1914 that also was hard to see (I got this one on faith) and so did not get it - wow, wish I had!
Without cheating, GTG if you'd like!
OK, so since everyone is posting to the Thursday thread on Friday, here goes.
This is a 1768-Mo Carlos III pattern 1/16R. There are two types, brass and copper. I also have a brass one with a silver wash. The copper seems to be the hardest to locate.
@pruebas said:
OK, so since everyone is posting to the Thursday thread on Friday, here goes.
This is a 1768-Mo Carlos III pattern 1/16R. There are two types, brass and copper. I also have a brass one with a silver wash. The copper seems to be the hardest to locate.
Trying to keep this Thursday thread interesting, here an brief excerpt of the paper The Pattern Coinage of Independent Peru by numismatic scholar/dealer William B. Christensen, presented at the Coinage of the Americas Conference in 1988.
The papers from that conference were published in the book Coinage of El Peru by the American Numismatic Society in 1989. Full book available online here.
The Wyon Coinage
By the mid-1880s, when the political and economic climate in Peru had returned more or less to normal, the Lima mint was found to be in a state of complete decrepitude. One might suggest that the mint in 1725 was more modern and up to date than it was in 1885. Indeed, much of the equipment left in the mint in 1885 dated from the reign of Philip V.
What with the cost of the war, indemnities, reparations, and loss of territories, the state of the Peruvian economy in the 1880s was not much better than Germany's in the 1920s. Peruvian inflationary paper money of the era illustrates this point. Yet the newly restored Peruvian government, still in control of bullion mines, recognized that one major factor needed to restore public confidence in the government was to provide a stable and well-made coinage. To provide this coinage they had to go overseas.
But where to go? Germany had sided with and trained the Chilean army during the Pacific Nitrate War; France was still recovering from the Franco-Prussian War; and the United States continued in its post-Civil War, isolationist phase. The answer was England. Although a Peruvian ship, Huáscar, had had a serious encounter with the Royal Navy, business was business. The Peruvian minister contracted in England for new mint tools and furnaces and for new master dies and hubs. What resulted are the superb proof pattern sets of 1886.
Leonard Charles Wyon, engraver at the Royal Mint, prepared hubs, dies, collars, and matrices for the Peruvian silver and copper coinage. Samples of earlier-issued coins were sent to him to aid him in his work. Obviously, no explanation was given to Wyon regarding the meaning of sundry initials on the coins; errors did occur and were corrected prior to the striking of the final proof sets by the Royal Mint.
From data uncovered by Horace Flatt we know that 13.81 ounces of fine silver were used to coin nine silver proof sets of 1886 Peruvian coin patterns at the Royal Mint. Presumably, a similar number of proofs of the copper coins were made, though that, of course, does not appear in the bullion report. The coins struck were the silver 1 sol, 1/2 sol, 1/5 sol, dinero, 1/2 dinero, 2 centavos, and 1 centavo—7 coins in all. Prior to these, Wyon made soft-metal die trials which were submitted to the Peruvian minister for approval. Obviously, certain elements did not meet with approval, as we shall see.
The first coin which Wyon produced was the crown, silver dollar, or un sol. It carries the assayers' initials R.D. for Remy and Davelouis, initials not embarrassingly antiquated. This superb rendition of the seated Patria design was soon adopted in Peru. The sample coins for the minor denominations were long out-of-date. For example, the 1/2 sol had not been struck for 20 years and carried assayers' initials of people who had long since left office. Hence, on the finished proofs, the initials were omitted. There is a unique, uniface die trial of the 1886 1/5 de sol, with assayers' initials Y.J., which last appeared on the coins in 1875. The silver proof has these erroneous initials erased. The silver dinero and medio dinero follow this formula.
For the copper coins, ordered to be 1- and 2-centavo pieces, Wyon was sent examples of the earlier issues from the 1870s. For the DOS CENTAVOS bronze proof pattern, a tin die trial of the reverse has come down to us from the Wyon estate. The 1 centavo is known from bronze proofs, together with the artist's die trials of the obverse and reverse. On the obverse die trial, Wyon copied the earlier Peruvian issues which had the name REPUBLICA PERUANA below the sunface. It was decided by the Peruvian minister, however, that the country name should appear above the sunface, and this was how the final proofs were struck.
These beautiful patterns, the "issued" pieces with only nine struck, and the uniface pieces, all unique, are often lumped together in catalogues as proofs within the regular series; this they clearly are not. They are excessively rare Royal Mint patterns, some of which were adopted for currency use in later years. What matters most, of course, is that they are beautiful coins.
The below is the Dos Centavos pattern from my collection. Unfortunately, PCGS will not call this a proof, but it technically is.
This is the Medio Dinero from my collection. It too is a proof. Note the missing assayer's initials per the paper.
And finally, I happen to have a medallic image of the ship Huáscar mentioned in the article.
Comments
You'll never guess the provenance of my new auction purchase.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Also picked this up
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Nice coin!
Latin American Collection
I just got new trueviews so forgive my posting on a Friday
Here is a link to the old PCGS image if anyone would like to see some stark differences in photography.
I'm currently at 5 coins towards my set of 7 Caballitos though having watched the prices at auction this month from the sidelines I think my progress will be stalled for a bit.
Meanwhile this piece is among my favorites. In hand the color changes appearance quite a lot depending on the lighting and viewing angle, but the new pictures capture the coin at its most psychedelic possible coloring. Most of the time if the color is visible, the lavender tones dominate.
Love that Caballito @Euclid
Nice additions, @JohnnyCache
Here's a nice AU53ish 8R with fun color. Images using both axial and overhead lighting
8 Reales Madness Collection
@Euclid for sure the image is a BIG improvement. I guess you are missing 11 short and 14. These require $some commitment...
You got it. I was lucky enough to find the 1913/2 slabbed as a plain 1913. I will have to cross it to PCGS soon hehe
In our favourite section “Coins you have never seen before, coins you are not likely to see ever again”, this specimen. Coins from the Early Series of the Charles and Johanna series for Mexico City are all rare, particularly lower denominations as the 4 reales were minted in larger numbers to ship to Spain. Assayer F is perhaps the rarest of all assayers in the series. His name and tenure dates are unknown. Cori Sedwick Downing in her paper “The Charles and Joanna Coinage of Mexico City, 1536-1571: A Research Study on the Early Series and Introduction to the Late Series” (unknown to me the date of publication) wrote that Assayer F minted ½, 1, 2, and 4 reales. “There are approximately 26 coins known in collections and auctions, with the majority from the “Golden Fleece wreck” (ca. 1550), one from the “Ines de Soto wreck” (ca. 1557), and none from the Spanish 1554 Fleet (Padre Island)”. She describes the main type of 1-real coins: Latin M-F flanking shield and left-leaning rhomboid banner between pillars. In her paper “An Overview of Charles and Johanna Coinage from Mexico City Mint” (USMexNA Journal 2017) she wrote ”I have cataloged only 36 Assayer F coins, in all denominations”. As we can see, there were few more coins described between both papers. Kent Ponterio in his paper “The Coinage of Mexico Struck During the Reign of Charles and Johanna” (revised June 2009) he stated that Assayer F is the third assayer of the Early Series. “Coins of this assayer are anywhere from extremely rare to unique” and suggests he was an interim assayer sometime in 1540 or 1541. He suggests 3 possible candidates: Francisco de Loaysa, Esteban Franco (also favoured by Ms Downing), or less likely, Francisco Rodriguez (from the Santo Domingo mint). As of today, is the only real graded by NGC for the assayer and type, therefore Top Pop.
Yes, I know it is not Thursday, sorry...
Great looking coin for a G-6 !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Great coin and provenance
Latin American Collection
Happy Thursday!
@Abuelo it's not Thursday yet!
But I'll post my newps too.
There isn't a whole lot of Mexican Colonial copper, and what there is generally comes in wretched condition. These are both condition census and finest currently certified (and perhaps finest known). And I did pay up for them!
You never disappoint @pruebas
There is actually a coin dealer in Stanley, Falkland Islands. We visited his shop in 2000. These arrived in the mail today.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
Sorry, this one belongs in here...
@Abuelo it sure does. Beautiful! And raw, no less. Is it a newp?
That is one coin I have always wanted and never bought.
My next grading shipment was received at PCGS today. Will post something once they grade.
@pruebas just received it yesterday. But graded, VF. As far as I am concerned , beautiful. Always wanted one, now I have it! The problem is that now i need the type I... Never ends.
nice coins
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
OK, I found something to post that I don't think I have shown before.
All proof, and pretty rare as such. Too bad the 5c has a scratch.
I hope to have an update on this series later this year....... Stay tuned.
@pruebas those are very impressive.
Thanks. They look nicer in hand.
But it's hard to compete with you @bidask!
Jgenn Nice 63 MM , hard coin to find. Here is an example of a 63MM that is an altered assayer, fooled me 30 years ago at a Big Regional Coin Show. You have got to be careful with that date , lots of altered coins out there. Yours is really nice!
Wow, thanks for sharing. It's so useful to see examples like this.
I used to own this coin, but sold it a few years back in a collection purge.
It is presently the only genuine 8R of this DAM known--XF40, net graded down to VF35 due to 2 small chops.
The only other unique Republic 8R is the Norweb 1839-Ho, but that was an illegitimate issue.
I wonder where it is today? Anyone know?
Net graded ?
Maybe I should go with NGC instead!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
>
Haven't posted in a few months, but did end-up getting that 1778 into NGC plastic. AU53, as expected, but unfortunately with a major mistake in assayer attribution (1778-FM instead of 1778-FF)
I also added a couple of 1809 PCGS 8 Reales with varieties not specified on the holder:
1809 TH/HJ in PCGS 61 (confirmed with Yonaka)
And an 1809 HJ/TH in PCGS VF25. Not as strong of an O/A as my previous example, but enough to get it attributed
Added a nice and colorful 1808 Ferdinand VII in PCGS MS63 (Portrait Type A, open mouth sub variety) from @Boosibri
Made a couple of MS61's at NGC that I will probably end-up selling once they're back:
8 Reales Madness Collection
Latin American Collection
What, no cats?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Meow
Latin American Collection
I have two of these in my world collection and there are varieties in the series.
I loved their designs at first sight...tomorrow morning ill image in better light congrats nice specimens.
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
This one i love to have graded as i do believe it would be a pop 1
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
Here is one I got off the Boards here, and promised I would post the seller after getting slabbed. I
only regret that he also had a 1914 that also was hard to see (I got this one on faith) and so did not get it - wow, wish I had!
Without cheating, GTG if you'd like!
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/37247763_169041743_max.jpg
Well, just Love coins, period.
OK, so since everyone is posting to the Thursday thread on Friday, here goes.
This is a 1768-Mo Carlos III pattern 1/16R. There are two types, brass and copper. I also have a brass one with a silver wash. The copper seems to be the hardest to locate.
Very interesting! I’ve never seen those before
Latin American Collection
@pruebas never disappoints...
Old coins, new photographs. Hope you enjoy
I did enjoy
8 Reales Madness Collection
The first Canadian 50 cent coin
Mintage was 450,000
Nice coins. Great photography.
Thank you, I commissioned them from a talented friend.
Trying to keep this Thursday thread interesting, here an brief excerpt of the paper The Pattern Coinage of Independent Peru by numismatic scholar/dealer William B. Christensen, presented at the Coinage of the Americas Conference in 1988.
The papers from that conference were published in the book Coinage of El Peru by the American Numismatic Society in 1989. Full book available online here.
The below is the Dos Centavos pattern from my collection. Unfortunately, PCGS will not call this a proof, but it technically is.
This is the Medio Dinero from my collection. It too is a proof. Note the missing assayer's initials per the paper.
And finally, I happen to have a medallic image of the ship Huáscar mentioned in the article.
Great write-up @pruebas
Latin American Collection
More white prongs...
Latin American Collection
1973-Mo 10 Peso Obverse Trial Strikes
Silver:
Copper:
Again, @pruebas does not disappoint...
Pffft...where is the gold version.
Latin American Collection