@illini420 said:
I prefer the independent third-party opinion of a few expert graders at PCGS over the opinion of a single person elsewhere that has a conflict of interest (i.e. makes a market in coins they put stickers on).
But I understand some love those green beans so I encourage them to have fun with their coins, their slabs and their stickers... but please don't ever give CAC coins bonuses in the regular registry...
You may do as you like. But a CAC coin has the opinion of those same PCGS graders PLUS the CAC graders & JA himself. To argue against the CAC, but in favor of PCGS, is to argue that somehow JA agreeing with PCGS graders makes the opinion of the PCGS graders themselves suspect.
@illini420 said:
I prefer the independent third-party opinion of a few expert graders at PCGS over the opinion of a single person elsewhere that has a conflict of interest (i.e. makes a market in coins they put stickers on).
But I understand some love those green beans so I encourage them to have fun with their coins, their slabs and their stickers... but please don't ever give CAC coins bonuses in the regular registry...
You may do as you like. But a CAC coin has the opinion of those same PCGS graders PLUS the CAC graders & JA himself. To argue against the CAC, but in favor of PCGS, is to argue that somehow JA agreeing with PCGS graders makes the opinion of the PCGS graders themselves suspect.
Not what I said... I just place much more weight on the opinion of PCGS. But of course, if I get a PCGS coin with a sticker already on it, I'm not peeling it off. Not suggesting the sticker is worth nothing.
But more what I was attempting to say in my previous post is that I'm not going to dislike a PCGS coin that fails to get a sticker because that sticker is not an independent third-party review of the coin. That's all.
And further, I feel it would be a huge mistake for PCGS to require/encourage submission of coins to an outside company in order to compete in their Set Registry. Like I said though, creating a separate category, separate sets, seem fun for those who choose to participate.
In addition to that, it sounds as if you still have the wrong impression about CAC's likes and standards.
@jmlanzaf said:
JA likes them crusty. I don't know anyone (well, present company excepted) that thinks he likes his coins dipped.
You two absolutely confound me
Typical MS65C CAC coin w/ Luster/eye-appeal bump (eye-appeal for JA is just bumping for luster another 10%)
CAC failure MS65A w/ great toning & much better preservation.
This is typical folks...
I can pull these out all day long.
Sounds like Indian cent can also.
That is my point exactly! Let's see....I own around 2500 PCGS graded Barber Halves. Do the math...shipping,insurance,logistics, and risk factor. I know folks here will not like this but I see this move as helping feed a parasite in our industry! I can buy a lot more coins for the 5 figures I would have to spend getting that funky green football attached to my slabs!
@WaterSport said:
Well, we all should know that CAC sets will...wait for it...
@amwldcoin said:
That is my point exactly! Let's see....I own around 2500 PCGS graded Barber Halves. Do the math...shipping,insurance,logistics, and risk factor. I know folks here will not like this but I see this move as helping feed a parasite in our industry! I can buy a lot more coins for the 5 figures I would have to spend getting that funky green football attached to my slabs!
And the increase in value (for you or your heirs) of just getting some of them stickered will FAR outweigh the $15 cost each, plus shipping, insurance,etc. Sounds like you're leaving a ton of money on the table. Cutting off ones nose......
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I do not participate in the Registry set category.... However, this seems like an excellent move by PCGS, given the acceptance/premiums the CAC has achieved in the market. Great idea...Cheers, RickO
@amwldcoin said:
That is my point exactly! Let's see....I own around 2500 PCGS graded Barber Halves. Do the math...shipping,insurance,logistics, and risk factor. I know folks here will not like this but I see this move as helping feed a parasite in our industry! I can buy a lot more coins for the 5 figures I would have to spend getting that funky green football attached to my slabs!
And the increase in value (for you or your heirs) of just getting some of them stickered will FAR outweigh the $15 cost each, plus shipping, insurance,etc. Sounds like you're leaving a ton of money on the table. Cutting off ones nose......
In addition to that, it sounds as if you still have the wrong impression about CAC's likes and standards.
@jmlanzaf said:
JA likes them crusty. I don't know anyone (well, present company excepted) that thinks he likes his coins dipped.
You two absolutely confound me
Typical MS65C CAC coin w/ Luster/eye-appeal bump (eye-appeal for JA is just bumping for luster another 10%)
CAC failure MS65A w/ great toning & much better preservation.
This is typical folks...
I can pull these out all day long.
Sounds like Indian cent can also.
Based on the pictures you posted, I have the opposite impression you do. To me , the second coin looks to have better luster and eye-appeal. And yet contrary to what you say occurs, the sticker went to the crustier looking coin. Of course, if the pictures aren't representative of what the coins look like, our assessments of the coins are a moot point.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Of course not. It's about the pleasure we get from our collections. But that doesn't mean we should leave potentially significant money on the table when the time comes that either we or our heirs sell.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
People forget that JA has a TEAM of "graders" or whatever you want to call them. Do you think that JA works every single day and finalizes every single coin that comes through his business? I highly doubt he reviews my MS-63 $2.5 Indians and common date MS-67 FB mercury dimes. Who knows, maybe he has already transitioned and doesn't do most of the grading anymore except for some of the more special submissions?
Either way, I use CAC to help train my eye for gold coins. I have learned a lot through my submissions and have made a LOT more money getting my coins stickered than not having them stickered. Sometimes I scratch my head at what gets stickered and what doesn't but as long as I continue to get good results and make $, I'm happy.
I stay away from the registries, I like my privacy and sanity, I enjoy my collection without having to "compete" against others.
Of course not. It's about the pleasure we get from our collections. But that doesn't mean we should leave potentially significant money on the table when the time comes that either we or our heirs sell.
Oh. Pleasure.....whew! Had me worried there for a bit.
@Cameonut said:
I will not play at all at this time.
If I ever decide to sell, my PCGS coins will go to CAC before liquidation.
No ill will intended, but what happens when JA passes on to the great bourse in the sky?
What happens if you pass on to the great bourse in the sky before you decide to sell? Will your heirs send all eligible coins to CAC? To avoid that risk, what is the disadvantage of you sending them in now, other than the psychological hit of seeing some of your coins not meriting the CAC sticker?
Good point. This is why I have explicit instructions on how to liquidate my collection. Nobody in the family will want it - they are all interested in cash.
Heirs are given a choice. Sell without CAC submission for quick cash. However, the recommended route is to submit to CAC to maximize sale prices. While I am on earth, I don't assign a huge value to CAC stickers on coins I have owned for decades.
And who is to say that in another 20 years there will be a model that supercedes CAC?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
I don't participate in the Registry as I've never been into competitive collecting. Nevertheless, it has to be recognized as a piece of absolute marketing genius on the part of our host. Making the CAC-stickered registry completely separate from the original version is definitely the way to go. Each collector can choose his venue and participate accordingly. As others have said, it's nothing more than a recognition of the actuality of the marketplace; individual opinions of the widespread acceptance of CAC notwithstanding.
@ShadyDave said:
People forget that JA has a TEAM of "graders" or whatever you want to call them. Do you think that JA works every single day and finalizes every single coin that comes through his business? I highly doubt he reviews my MS-63 $2.5 Indians and common date MS-67 FB mercury dimes. Who knows, maybe he has already transitioned and doesn't do most of the grading anymore except for some of the more special submissions?
Either way, I use CAC to help train my eye for gold coins. I have learned a lot through my submissions and have made a LOT more money getting my coins stickered than not having them stickered. Sometimes I scratch my head at what gets stickered and what doesn't but as long as I continue to get good results and make $, I'm happy.
I stay away from the registries, I like my privacy and sanity, I enjoy my collection without having to "compete" against others.
In answer to your questions - yes, regarding finalizing each coin that receives a sticker, even if you happen to doubt it. And no to "already transitioned" and not doing " most of the grading".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well I just cancelled a purchase from yesterday that was not CAC a PCGS ms 66 seated dime. It had already been submitted and did not meet CAC standard but looked like a nice coin in the pictures. I am at over 80% CAC with my collection. My eyes are not what they used to be so I am willing to pay a fair price for the second opinion with my dealer being the third opinion. I was burned badly in the eighties by a trusted dealer on raw coins so this extra measure is well worth it. I will only be buying CAC going forward as my skills are not good enough to buy raw or certified and try to get CAC or upgrades and I am willing to admit it. I still buy certified non CAC coins to crack out for some Dansco books. I enjoy the discussion and enjoy my coins. Not wealthy so I need to protect by heirs if possible. I would not want my wife haunting be in death because my purchases lost a ton of money. Well time to head to Saint Augustine for some sightseeing with the kids and grandkids Happy early Thanksgiving to everyone. Go CAC Go.
I'm pleased that PCGS will give numismatists the option to list there PCGS CAC coins in their registry. This shows that the new management is open and willing to implement new ideas that enhance the registry.
@ShadyDave said:
People forget that JA has a TEAM of "graders" or whatever you want to call them. Do you think that JA works every single day and finalizes every single coin that comes through his business? I highly doubt he reviews my MS-63 $2.5 Indians and common date MS-67 FB mercury dimes. Who knows, maybe he has already transitioned and doesn't do most of the grading anymor except for some of the more special submissions?
Either way, I use CAC to help train my eye for gold coins. I have learned a lot through my submissions and have made a LOT more money getting my coins stickered than not having them stickered. Sometimes I scratch my head at what gets stickered and what doesn't but as long as I continue to get good results and make $, I'm happy.
I stay away from the registries, I like my privacy and sanity, I enjoy my collection without having to "compete" against others.
I remember when PCGS started plus grading. Most people were bashing it saying plus coins were dipped. My non plus coin is better than a plus coin of the same date.
Collect what you like, what gives you enjoyment whether it is a CAC coin or non CAC coin.
PCGS is just giving collectors a new opportunity to collect CAC coins for a new Registry.
CAC has been very popular as has plus grading Give this idea a chance to grow and see where
it goes.
At least the new Brass at PCGS is offering new possibilities for collectors when the old brass
had a reputation as being stubborn to change.
What I would like to see PCGS do is put CAC coin prices in their price guide in the near future.
Hmmmm. Perhaps this is another Laura idea to beef up her world famous client collections ?????? Just saying.
Any who, there is going to be a battle of the wallets for many of these sets to just get completed if a sticker is required on EVERY coin. Or , are the sets ranked with stickers and non stickers with extra points given to stickers ? Please educate me.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Funny development. I just reviewed my inventory of duplicates today, and many were CAC coins. None of these CAC duplicates are in my registry sets.......because I have better examples that are not CAC.
Significantly, I find that PCGS would recognize CAC as a superior grading authority does nothing more than to degrade their brand. JA is a premier grader, but he still grades on a subjective (his) basis. His opinion of TPG grades provides value to the market, but PCGS should not in any way endorse a CAC rating.
I wonder if CAC stickers will have the same significance fifty years from now that they have today..
OINK
You miss a key point in grading. PCGS in theory is not allowed to be choosy when they grade coins. If technically a coin does meet the requirements for a specific grade, even if the grader hates the coin from an eye appeal or otherwise reason, he is supposed to give the coin the "deserving" grade. Further, even if the aesthetic appeal of the coin is so POOR that 99.9% of collectors will pass on such a coin, the graders must still grade the coin as the "deserving grade" and release it to the market.
Coins with large scratches, old cleaning, or just terribly dark and ugly- many times such coins are still considered market acceptable and are thereby given the "deserving grade"
With CAC, JA gets to look at everyone of those coins coming through and be as selective as he wants- in order to say I like this coin enough that I will buy it at the current levels.
Remember, every coin with a sticker on it makes a larger market for JA as a coin his company is willing to purchase.
A high relief saint graded by pcgs in ms65 is worth around $35,000
A high relief saint graded by pcgs in ms65 that JA LIKES he would pay $45,000.
So basically JA is saying if you have a nice high relief in ms65 he would pay you an EXTRA $10,000 for it. Sounds nice!
But how do you know if your coin is one of the ones he would pay the extra $10k for? answer: you submit it for his opinion. If he does end up liking it, he will affix a green sticker to it so that if and when you decide to sell it, you dont sell it as one of the $35,000 pieces and you will know to sell it to him for $45,000
Also, having the little sticker helps you identify which ms65 high relief was the one that you submitted. Since you may have hundreds of said coins in your collection- the sticker identifies the ones that hes seen that hes willing to spend the extra $10k on per
@Cameonut said:
I will not play at all at this time.
If I ever decide to sell, my PCGS coins will go to CAC before liquidation.
No ill will intended, but what happens when JA passes on to the great bourse in the sky?
What happens if you pass on to the great bourse in the sky before you decide to sell? Will your heirs send all eligible coins to CAC? To avoid that risk, what is the disadvantage of you sending them in now, other than the psychological hit of seeing some of your coins not meriting the CAC sticker?
Fact is that there are a lot of coins that failed CAC that are better than a lot of coins with a CAC sticker. CAC is only one man's opinion and WAY TOO MUCH weight is given to this.
In addition to that, it sounds as if you still have the wrong impression about CAC's likes and standards.
@jmlanzaf said:
JA likes them crusty. I don't know anyone (well, present company excepted) that thinks he likes his coins dipped.
You two absolutely confound me
Typical MS65C CAC coin w/ Luster/eye-appeal bump (eye-appeal for JA is just bumping for luster another 10%)
CAC failure MS65A w/ great toning & much better preservation.
This is typical folks...
I can pull these out all day long.
Sounds like Indian cent can also.
Based on the pictures you posted, I have the opposite impression you do. To me , the second coin looks to have better luster and eye-appeal. And yet contrary to what you say occurs, the sticker went to the crustier looking coin. Of course, if the pictures aren't representative of what the coins look like, our assessments of the coins are a moot point.
I think he got the wording with the wrong pics.....if I understand what he is saying.
Based on the pictures you posted, I have the opposite impression you do. To me , the second coin looks to have better luster and eye-appeal. And yet contrary to what you say occurs, the sticker went to the crustier looking coin. Of course, if the pictures aren't representative of what the coins look like, our assessments of the coins are a moot point.
I think he got the wording with the wrong pics.....if I understand what he is saying.
You would think so, based on what he was saying. But according to the CAC registry, the pictures are labeled correctly. Proving what Mark and I have been saying: JA loves a little crust on his coins, apparently even gold.
Not sure how this changes anything with existing sets. I do not agree that the sets should be mixed, with a bonus for CAC, as this diminishes the PCGS brand.
Do not want CAC coins, then just keep doing what you have always done. No one is forced to add new sets, or run out and buy different coins. The fact CAC does not cover all coin series already leaves holes for certain existing sets.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Based on the pictures you posted, I have the opposite impression you do. To me , the second coin looks to have better luster and eye-appeal. And yet contrary to what you say occurs, the sticker went to the crustier looking coin. Of course, if the pictures aren't representative of what the coins look like, our assessments of the coins are a moot point.
I think he got the wording with the wrong pics.....if I understand what he is saying.
You would think so, based on what he was saying. But according to the CAC registry, the pictures are labeled correctly. Proving what Mark and I have been saying: JA loves a little crust on his coins, apparently even gold.
Yes, I looked up the cert numbers before I posted what I did, because I thought perhaps the posted had gotten the wording/pictures mixed up.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Flackthat said:
How will Gold CAC stickers work into all of this? Is there a special point system for them?
For PCGS Registry purposes, my understanding at this time is there is no differentiation between Green and Gold CAC stickers. No points/bonuses are given for a CAC sticker. To include a coin in a PCGS CAC Composite set, the coin has to have a CAC, regardless of color.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Mark - while you may technically be right that a B coin in the next grade up could receive a gold sticker, in practice that is not the case. The only coins actually receiving gold stickers are the no brainers at the next grade up...the A coins.
@tradedollarnut said:
Mark - while you may technically be right that a B coin in the next grade up could receive a gold sticker, in practice that is not the case. The only coins actually receiving gold stickers are the no brainers at the next grade up...the A coins.
Then the stickers should differentiate between A & B coins right on the sticker.
@tradedollarnut said:
Mark - while you may technically be right that a B coin in the next grade up could receive a gold sticker, in practice that is not the case. The only coins actually receiving gold stickers are the no brainers at the next grade up...the A coins.
Bruce, I understand and agree with that. I was only commenting on green stickers, so apologies if I gave the wrong impression.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting move and I think it makes some sense although it's not for me.
I sometimes wonder what percentage of collectors, that have higher grade collections (let's say that would be in the top 10% of the registry) actually participate in the registry. I know there's no way to really know, but I suspect there is a good number of "us" that don't list them for one reason or the other. I took all of mine out of the registry about 6 months ago. Just wasn't for me.
Sorry to inform all of you but there is not enough Kool-Aid and popcorn to go around so you can make the best of this by sharing.... And I will save my real thoughts for a later time in anticipation that this thread will not survive.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@coinkat said:
Sorry to inform all of you but there is not enough Kool-Aid and popcorn to go around so you can make the best of this by sharing.... And I will save my real thoughts for a later time in anticipation that this thread will not survive.
I do like the move, seems logical given the market acceptance and high regard for CAC. Is CAC just one person's opinion?Sure is but so is the TPG. All that aside I would've preferred they simply add a weighted bonus in the already established set registry instead of having to create a whole new set entry. It's not a perfect solution, and I don't know what that would even entail but I like it. Having said all that I don't publish my sets and instead use the registry as an online way to inventory my collection but my OCD insisted I create all new CAC sets, sigh.
Comments
You may do as you like. But a CAC coin has the opinion of those same PCGS graders PLUS the CAC graders & JA himself. To argue against the CAC, but in favor of PCGS, is to argue that somehow JA agreeing with PCGS graders makes the opinion of the PCGS graders themselves suspect.
Not what I said... I just place much more weight on the opinion of PCGS. But of course, if I get a PCGS coin with a sticker already on it, I'm not peeling it off. Not suggesting the sticker is worth nothing.
But more what I was attempting to say in my previous post is that I'm not going to dislike a PCGS coin that fails to get a sticker because that sticker is not an independent third-party review of the coin. That's all.
And further, I feel it would be a huge mistake for PCGS to require/encourage submission of coins to an outside company in order to compete in their Set Registry. Like I said though, creating a separate category, separate sets, seem fun for those who choose to participate.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
In addition to that, it sounds as if you still have the wrong impression about CAC's likes and standards.
You two absolutely confound me
Typical MS65C CAC coin w/ Luster/eye-appeal bump (eye-appeal for JA is just bumping for luster another 10%)
CAC failure MS65A w/ great toning & much better preservation.
This is typical folks...
I can pull these out all day long.
Sounds like Indian cent can also.
My Saint Set
That is my point exactly! Let's see....I own around 2500 PCGS graded Barber Halves. Do the math...shipping,insurance,logistics, and risk factor. I know folks here will not like this but I see this move as helping feed a parasite in our industry! I can buy a lot more coins for the 5 figures I would have to spend getting that funky green football attached to my slabs!
And the increase in value (for you or your heirs) of just getting some of them stickered will FAR outweigh the $15 cost each, plus shipping, insurance,etc. Sounds like you're leaving a ton of money on the table. Cutting off ones nose......
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I do not participate in the Registry set category.... However, this seems like an excellent move by PCGS, given the acceptance/premiums the CAC has achieved in the market. Great idea...Cheers, RickO
Hmmm, I'm not having any problem what so ever selling PQ Barber Halves for PQ prices without Green Footballs on them!
Time for CAC to allow submissions by anyone and return promptly.
And neither you nor I know even how much more those PQ Barber Halves would sell for if they had the CAC sticker.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Based on the pictures you posted, I have the opposite impression you do. To me , the second coin looks to have better luster and eye-appeal. And yet contrary to what you say occurs, the sticker went to the crustier looking coin. Of course, if the pictures aren't representative of what the coins look like, our assessments of the coins are a moot point.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
WHAT ? It's all about price?
LOL! Not a dime more or less than I ask for them!
Of course not. It's about the pleasure we get from our collections. But that doesn't mean we should leave potentially significant money on the table when the time comes that either we or our heirs sell.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
People forget that JA has a TEAM of "graders" or whatever you want to call them. Do you think that JA works every single day and finalizes every single coin that comes through his business? I highly doubt he reviews my MS-63 $2.5 Indians and common date MS-67 FB mercury dimes. Who knows, maybe he has already transitioned and doesn't do most of the grading anymore except for some of the more special submissions?
Either way, I use CAC to help train my eye for gold coins. I have learned a lot through my submissions and have made a LOT more money getting my coins stickered than not having them stickered. Sometimes I scratch my head at what gets stickered and what doesn't but as long as I continue to get good results and make $, I'm happy.
I stay away from the registries, I like my privacy and sanity, I enjoy my collection without having to "compete" against others.
Oh. Pleasure.....whew! Had me worried there for a bit.
Good point. This is why I have explicit instructions on how to liquidate my collection. Nobody in the family will want it - they are all interested in cash.
Heirs are given a choice. Sell without CAC submission for quick cash. However, the recommended route is to submit to CAC to maximize sale prices. While I am on earth, I don't assign a huge value to CAC stickers on coins I have owned for decades.
And who is to say that in another 20 years there will be a model that supercedes CAC?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I don't participate in the Registry as I've never been into competitive collecting. Nevertheless, it has to be recognized as a piece of absolute marketing genius on the part of our host. Making the CAC-stickered registry completely separate from the original version is definitely the way to go. Each collector can choose his venue and participate accordingly. As others have said, it's nothing more than a recognition of the actuality of the marketplace; individual opinions of the widespread acceptance of CAC notwithstanding.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
In answer to your questions - yes, regarding finalizing each coin that receives a sticker, even if you happen to doubt it. And no to "already transitioned" and not doing " most of the grading".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Appears this would accelerate demand for PCGS / CAC material high value area in the grade matrix (65-67) for that particular issue.
Well I just cancelled a purchase from yesterday that was not CAC a PCGS ms 66 seated dime. It had already been submitted and did not meet CAC standard but looked like a nice coin in the pictures. I am at over 80% CAC with my collection. My eyes are not what they used to be so I am willing to pay a fair price for the second opinion with my dealer being the third opinion. I was burned badly in the eighties by a trusted dealer on raw coins so this extra measure is well worth it. I will only be buying CAC going forward as my skills are not good enough to buy raw or certified and try to get CAC or upgrades and I am willing to admit it. I still buy certified non CAC coins to crack out for some Dansco books. I enjoy the discussion and enjoy my coins. Not wealthy so I need to protect by heirs if possible. I would not want my wife haunting be in death because my purchases lost a ton of money. Well time to head to Saint Augustine for some sightseeing with the kids and grandkids Happy early Thanksgiving to everyone. Go CAC Go.
The next step is putting the CAC sticker inside the PCGS holder.
I'm pleased that PCGS will give numismatists the option to list there PCGS CAC coins in their registry. This shows that the new management is open and willing to implement new ideas that enhance the registry.
I just love when people choose to write fiction.
JA is the Finalizer.
I remember when PCGS started plus grading. Most people were bashing it saying plus coins were dipped. My non plus coin is better than a plus coin of the same date.
Collect what you like, what gives you enjoyment whether it is a CAC coin or non CAC coin.
PCGS is just giving collectors a new opportunity to collect CAC coins for a new Registry.
CAC has been very popular as has plus grading Give this idea a chance to grow and see where
it goes.
At least the new Brass at PCGS is offering new possibilities for collectors when the old brass
had a reputation as being stubborn to change.
What I would like to see PCGS do is put CAC coin prices in their price guide in the near future.
Hmmmm. Perhaps this is another Laura idea to beef up her world famous client collections ?????? Just saying.
Any who, there is going to be a battle of the wallets for many of these sets to just get completed if a sticker is required on EVERY coin. Or , are the sets ranked with stickers and non stickers with extra points given to stickers ? Please educate me.
WS
Only coins with CAC's can be entered in the CAC composite sets. No extra points
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
You miss a key point in grading. PCGS in theory is not allowed to be choosy when they grade coins. If technically a coin does meet the requirements for a specific grade, even if the grader hates the coin from an eye appeal or otherwise reason, he is supposed to give the coin the "deserving" grade. Further, even if the aesthetic appeal of the coin is so POOR that 99.9% of collectors will pass on such a coin, the graders must still grade the coin as the "deserving grade" and release it to the market.
Coins with large scratches, old cleaning, or just terribly dark and ugly- many times such coins are still considered market acceptable and are thereby given the "deserving grade"
With CAC, JA gets to look at everyone of those coins coming through and be as selective as he wants- in order to say I like this coin enough that I will buy it at the current levels.
Remember, every coin with a sticker on it makes a larger market for JA as a coin his company is willing to purchase.
A high relief saint graded by pcgs in ms65 is worth around $35,000
A high relief saint graded by pcgs in ms65 that JA LIKES he would pay $45,000.
So basically JA is saying if you have a nice high relief in ms65 he would pay you an EXTRA $10,000 for it. Sounds nice!
But how do you know if your coin is one of the ones he would pay the extra $10k for? answer: you submit it for his opinion. If he does end up liking it, he will affix a green sticker to it so that if and when you decide to sell it, you dont sell it as one of the $35,000 pieces and you will know to sell it to him for $45,000
Also, having the little sticker helps you identify which ms65 high relief was the one that you submitted. Since you may have hundreds of said coins in your collection- the sticker identifies the ones that hes seen that hes willing to spend the extra $10k on per
Fact is that there are a lot of coins that failed CAC that are better than a lot of coins with a CAC sticker. CAC is only one man's opinion and WAY TOO MUCH weight is given to this.
I think he got the wording with the wrong pics.....if I understand what he is saying.
There may be WAY TOO MUCH WEIGHT given to the beans, but the reality is......nobody CARES about that.
There's WAY TOO MUCH WEIGHT given to BBB ratings of businesses, too.
You would think so, based on what he was saying. But according to the CAC registry, the pictures are labeled correctly. Proving what Mark and I have been saying: JA loves a little crust on his coins, apparently even gold.
Not sure how this changes anything with existing sets. I do not agree that the sets should be mixed, with a bonus for CAC, as this diminishes the PCGS brand.
Do not want CAC coins, then just keep doing what you have always done. No one is forced to add new sets, or run out and buy different coins. The fact CAC does not cover all coin series already leaves holes for certain existing sets.
Yes, I looked up the cert numbers before I posted what I did, because I thought perhaps the posted had gotten the wording/pictures mixed up.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For PCGS Registry purposes, my understanding at this time is there is no differentiation between Green and Gold CAC stickers. No points/bonuses are given for a CAC sticker. To include a coin in a PCGS CAC Composite set, the coin has to have a CAC, regardless of color.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Mark - while you may technically be right that a B coin in the next grade up could receive a gold sticker, in practice that is not the case. The only coins actually receiving gold stickers are the no brainers at the next grade up...the A coins.
Then the stickers should differentiate between A & B coins right on the sticker.
CAC-A
CAC-B
Right? Having the dash could be critical, though.
Bruce, I understand and agree with that. I was only commenting on green stickers, so apologies if I gave the wrong impression.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting move and I think it makes some sense although it's not for me.
I sometimes wonder what percentage of collectors, that have higher grade collections (let's say that would be in the top 10% of the registry) actually participate in the registry. I know there's no way to really know, but I suspect there is a good number of "us" that don't list them for one reason or the other. I took all of mine out of the registry about 6 months ago. Just wasn't for me.
Sorry to inform all of you but there is not enough Kool-Aid and popcorn to go around so you can make the best of this by sharing.... And I will save my real thoughts for a later time in anticipation that this thread will not survive.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Do you think Brett will also ban himself?
I do like the move, seems logical given the market acceptance and high regard for CAC. Is CAC just one person's opinion?Sure is but so is the TPG. All that aside I would've preferred they simply add a weighted bonus in the already established set registry instead of having to create a whole new set entry. It's not a perfect solution, and I don't know what that would even entail but I like it. Having said all that I don't publish my sets and instead use the registry as an online way to inventory my collection but my OCD insisted I create all new CAC sets, sigh.
Wonder if I can get a premium for toned cac stickers? Time to bust out the ole taco sauce and start the experimentation.
Probably not, but centering may become an issue.
PCGS and CAC may as well merge
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
How about a registry for coins that have been given the same grade by both PCGS and NGC .... ?
Pretty powerful .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
My day is coming...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.