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"They'll never do it" - PCGS/CAC Set Registry sets are live!

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  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will not play at all at this time.
    If I ever decide to sell, my PCGS coins will go to CAC before liquidation.
    Don't see the value in two registry sets - with and without CAC.

    No ill will intended, but what happens when JA passes on to the great bourse in the sky?

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • PickwickjrPickwickjr Posts: 557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t participate in the registry set but I thought it was worth asking. Lol

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a game changer for the market. It will be interesting to see how much the CAC/non-CAC price disparity will grow.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It can grow all it wants...my non submitted non CAC coins will stay priced the same!

    @cameonut2011 said:

    This is a game changer for the market. It will be interesting to see how much the CAC/non-CAC price disparity will grow.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like there's only 1 saint set & it's all low grade widgets.

    -----PASS-----

  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Big move by pcgs. Ill read alot into this and say collaboration with CAC is a great move for the HOBBY
    Great job!

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How do you fix a bifurcated market?
    I will leave that to folks smarter than I but I sure know you do not bifurcate it even more.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019 6:39PM

    @DelawareDoons said:
    How do you fix a bifurcated market?
    I will leave that to folks smarter than I but I sure know you do not bifurcate it even more.

    Now it's more like bifurcated collectors. We're now split into two classes.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    It can grow all it wants...my non submitted non CAC coins will stay priced the same!

    @cameonut2011 said:

    This is a game changer for the market. It will be interesting to see how much the CAC/non-CAC price disparity will grow.

    You might not have a choice for rare/top pop coins if you want to sell the pieces for fair prices. I am not a sticker sycophant, but you can't ignore market realities!

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:
    How do you fix a bifurcated market?
    I will leave that to folks smarter than I but I sure know you do not bifurcate it even more.

    You let it all crash and start afresh.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019 6:37PM

    @amwldcoin said:
    I certainly hope you don't start awarding points for CAC stickers or I'm done with the registry sets.

    I'll be hitting that CNT-DEL-REG/SET button & signing out also.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,300 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurboSnail said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Ooooo...a CAC thread started by a moderator. This is the quickest way to getting banned!

    Personally, kudos to PCGS for embracing the Market

    No one can ban the big boss!

    Heather: "Hold my beer."

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe I should start a Barber Sticker! I might not be as well versed in the high end MS coins but in the mid-grades his opinions pale in comparison to mine! I have seen enough CAC'd Circ Barber Halves I don't think should be in a holder that he lost all my respect!

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    It can grow all it wants...my non submitted non CAC coins will stay priced the same!

    @cameonut2011 said:

    This is a game changer for the market. It will be interesting to see how much the CAC/non-CAC price disparity will grow.

    You might not have a choice for rare/top pop coins if you want to sell the pieces for fair prices. I am not a sticker sycophant, but you can't ignore market realities!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    I certainly hope you don't start awarding points for CAC stickers or I'm done with the registry sets.

    I'll be hitting that CNT-DEL-REG/SET button & signing out also.

    I understand your point, but I kind of think it would make more sense to give points for CAC stickers in the regular registry than creating a second registry. It's all but forcing people to have two different registry sets.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JA 40 years in the business?? It begs the question, what is the succession plan........

    Glad they are working together - took a change at the helm of PCGS to make it happen.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,763 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    I certainly hope you don't start awarding points for CAC stickers or I'm done with the registry sets.

    I'll be hitting that CNT-DEL-REG/SET button & signing out also.

    I understand your point, but I kind of think it would make more sense to give points for CAC stickers in the regular registry than creating a second registry. It's all but forcing people to have two different registry sets.

    The same cert numbers from your "Regular" set can be used in your CAC Set. No one is being forced to start a CAC Set and your regular sets are not affected by CAC Sets.

    GrandAm :)
  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedCopper said:
    How can PCGS prove if a coin has a CAC sticker unless they have access to the CAC database.

    The new PCGS “rules” state they will (can if they want to?) check the CAC database. That is available for the public, just by entering the Cert Number on the CAC website.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GRANDAM said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    I certainly hope you don't start awarding points for CAC stickers or I'm done with the registry sets.

    I'll be hitting that CNT-DEL-REG/SET button & signing out also.

    I understand your point, but I kind of think it would make more sense to give points for CAC stickers in the regular registry than creating a second registry. It's all but forcing people to have two different registry sets.

    The same cert numbers from your "Regular" set can be used in your CAC Set. No one is being forced to start a CAC Set and your regular sets are not affected by CAC Sets.

    If you have all CAC coins, you can do that. What if your regular set only had a few CAC coins?

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cameonut said:
    I will not play at all at this time.
    If I ever decide to sell, my PCGS coins will go to CAC before liquidation.

    No ill will intended, but what happens when JA passes on to the great bourse in the sky?

    What happens if you pass on to the great bourse in the sky before you decide to sell? Will your heirs send all eligible coins to CAC? To avoid that risk, what is the disadvantage of you sending them in now, other than the psychological hit of seeing some of your coins not meriting the CAC sticker?

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019 8:28PM

    @Lakesammman said:
    JA 40 years in the business?? It begs the question, what is the succession plan........

    Glad they are working together - took a change at the helm of PCGS to make it happen.

    I've asked that question (about a succession plan) a couple of times over the last few years and have never gotten even a guess for an answer.
    I think it's the elephant in the room.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sparky64 said:

    @Lakesammman said:
    JA 40 years in the business?? It begs the question, what is the succession plan........

    Glad they are working together - took a change at the helm of PCGS to make it happen.

    I've asked that question (about a succession plan) a couple of times over the last few years and have never gotten even a guess for an answer.
    I think it's the elephant in the room.

    I believe I read in an interview in the Gobrecht journal that there is a plan in place which involves a different sticker. Which would in effect make it like a 2nd generation sticker.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty said:

    @sparky64 said:

    @Lakesammman said:
    JA 40 years in the business?? It begs the question, what is the succession plan........

    Glad they are working together - took a change at the helm of PCGS to make it happen.

    I've asked that question (about a succession plan) a couple of times over the last few years and have never gotten even a guess for an answer.
    I think it's the elephant in the room.

    I believe I read in an interview in the Gobrecht journal that there is a plan in place which involves a different sticker. Which would in effect make it like a 2nd generation sticker.

    Oh brother ....Then the original JA era stickers will be worth a huge premium over the others Just like rattlers, OGHs and fatties Are worth more....

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019 9:32PM

    I think this was a poor decision. Not many people will want duplicate sets. Hence, really, it's just replacing the registry they have now with a new registry of only CAC coins thereby disqualifying the majority of PCGS coins from being added to relevant registry sets. The whole idea of the registry - and what drives prices - is the competition for the best sets. Well, that is, of course, CAC sets.

    This also RUINS the data for all historic-All-Time-Retired sets.

    I give this move a 0/10.

    As an aside, can regular peons even submit their coins to CAC? - last I checked - their registration was closed.

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Only PCGS certified coins are eligible for inclusion in any PCGS Set Registry composites, PCGS CAC composites included. :) Heather Boyd

    There are currently ATS coins in at least one Set Registry. Is this a "grandfather" situation?

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
    ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TradesWithChops said:
    I think this was a poor decision. Not many people will want duplicate sets. Hence, really, it's just replacing the registry they have now with a new registry of only CAC coins thereby disqualifying the majority of PCGS coins from being added to relevant registry sets. The whole idea of the registry - and what drives prices - is the competition for the best sets. Well, that is, of course, CAC sets.

    This also RUINS the data for all historic-All-Time-Retired sets.

    I give this move a 0/10.

    As an aside, can regular peons even submit their coins to CAC? - last I checked - their registration was closed.

    It took me a few weeks to receive and fill out an application upon inquiring and I was then waitlisted for approximately six months prior to being accepted as a collector member with CAC very recently.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • GhosOfRudyGhosOfRudy Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins ad legit?

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Two of the three were recommended to me by a former CAC grader, but ultimately denied the grace of a sticker:

    image
    image
    image

    These are nice coins. I would guess the two of three mentioned were technically correctly graded; but, did not receive a sticker because they had somehow been "improved." Resubmitting them with a lower grade would not gain them a sticker.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @toyz4geo said:
    I can't play because CAC doesn't do MS Jeffersons, only proofs. My FS Jefferson War Nickel Registry set doesn't qualify.

    Yet my lowball Ike set does.
    Go figure!

    peacockcoins

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins as legit?

    A green CAC sticker means it is solid for the grade (“A” and “B” coins yes, “C” coins no). A Gold sticker implies that the coin is undergraded.

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019 11:04PM

    @Walkerfan said:

    @Crusty said:

    @sparky64 said:

    @Lakesammman said:
    JA 40 years in the business?? It begs the question, what is the succession plan........

    Glad they are working together - took a change at the helm of PCGS to make it happen.

    I've asked that question (about a succession plan) a couple of times over the last few years and have never gotten even a guess for an answer.
    I think it's the elephant in the room.

    I believe I read in an interview in the Gobrecht journal that there is a plan in place which involves a different sticker. Which would in effect make it like a 2nd generation sticker.

    Oh brother ....Then the original JA era stickers will be worth a huge premium over the others Just like rattlers, OGHs and fatties Are worth more....

    The conservative deep green foil stickers v. the imagined newer lime green or pastel blue foil stickers... :D

    I can just see the marketing ads now: "Up for sale is a PCGS rattler graded when PCGS was ultra conservative. The coin was also stickered by CAC during its ultra conservative early days before it moved 'post JA.' It could gold sticker today or upgrade at PCGS and resticker again at the current iteration of CAC. The vivid colors on the sticker and slab could make even the most sex starved peacock in mating season jealous. We expect spirited bidding on this one."

    I like JA and hope he lives a very, very long time. I hope he never retires (or if he does, I hope he remains figure head and silently retires without announcements) for the good and stability of the market. There is no CAC without JA.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @toyz4geo said:
    I can't play because CAC doesn't do MS Jeffersons, only proofs. My FS Jefferson War Nickel Registry set doesn't qualify.

    Yet my lowball Ike set does.
    Go figure!

    I never understood the logic here. He ignores proof 1950-1964 coinage, most business strike Jeffersons including 1938-1964, and all silver Roosevelt dimes (1946-1964) but will slab Ikes.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins as legit?

    A green CAC sticker means it is solid for the grade (“A” and “B” coins yes, “C” coins no). A Gold sticker implies that the coin is undergraded.

    It means it is undergraded by at least one full point and would green bean at the next higher level.

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Funny development. I just reviewed my inventory of duplicates today, and many were CAC coins. None of these CAC duplicates are in my registry sets.......because I have better examples that are not CAC.

    Significantly, I find that PCGS would recognize CAC as a superior grading authority does nothing more than to degrade their brand. JA is a premier grader, but he still grades on a subjective (his) basis. His opinion of TPG grades provides value to the market, but PCGS should not in any way endorse a CAC rating.

    I wonder if CAC stickers will have the same significance fifty years from now that they have today..

    OINK

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that there is an option to participate or not with either registry (CAC or non-CAC.)

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The CAC registry doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A 67 C- coin should still be ranked higher than the 66 B coin with a CAC sticker. In some cases, that 67 non-CAC coin may be the sole finest and the 66 CAC may be the finest CACed coin. Per JA, a CAC failure does not necessarily mean that the coin is over graded. Many properly graded but low end for the grade coins do fail CAC. The only other explanation would be conceding that a decent number are problem coins and/or over graded, which I hope isn't the case. In that sense, I agree fully with @OldIndianNutKase 's comments.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I predict PCGS/CAC prices will go even higher now.

    I'm not sure what will happen to competition for the existing sets. I imagine PCGS/CAC coins can compete in both PCGS/CAC and PCGS sets at the same time (similar to a coin being in multiple sets today) so perhaps there won't be much difference for the existing sets?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019 4:14AM

    @RedCopper said:
    What will Del Loy Hansen do now moving forward ?

    He'll have more sets to compete in. He has a lot of CAC so it will be interesting to see the level of competition.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019 4:08AM

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins ad legit?

    That is incorrect. Gold CAC means that. Green CAC just means at the top of the grade range

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins ad legit?

    That is incorrect. Gold CAC means that. Green CAC just means at the top of the grade range

    I believe that is also incorrect. Since green stickers supposedly signify both A and B quality coins, that would include mid range, In addition to “top of the grade range.”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins ad legit?

    That is incorrect. Gold CAC means that. Green CAC just means at the top of the grade range

    I believe that is also incorrect. Since green stickers supposedly signify both A and B quality coins, that would include mid range, In addition to “top of the grade range.”

    Well, you can be in the top 80%. Doesn't have to be top 50%. I think JA himself said roughly 60%.

    Would you prefer I said "not at the bottom"?

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so the first thing that comes to mind is the large number of CAC threads that have been deleted and the members who have been banned, timed-out and ghosted due to CAC related issues. it just doesn't pass the smell test for me.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,867 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @GhosOfRudy said:
    wait, doesn't a CAC sticker essentially mean they think PCGS undergraded the coin generally? I mean. Weird. How will they verify CAC coins ad legit?

    That is incorrect. Gold CAC means that. Green CAC just means at the top of the grade range

    I believe that is also incorrect. Since green stickers supposedly signify both A and B quality coins, that would include mid range, In addition to “top of the grade range.”

    Well, you can be in the top 80%. Doesn't have to be top 50%. I think JA himself said roughly 60%.

    Would you prefer I said "not at the bottom"?

    Seriously, I prefer that you say whatever you feel is accurate - even if I have a somewhat different view. I realize that mine is not necessarily correct.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019 5:19AM

    I think a lot of people are missing the point.
    CAC coins have a particular look to them...I just don't care for it.
    I hate to see all those heavily toned saints getting cracked & dipped for a sticker because luster-bombs are the new thing.
    The camel's nose is now under the tent.

  • illini420illini420 Posts: 11,467 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I prefer the independent third-party opinion of a few expert graders at PCGS over the opinion of a single person elsewhere that has a conflict of interest (i.e. makes a market in coins they put stickers on).

    But I understand some love those green beans so I encourage them to have fun with their coins, their slabs and their stickers... but please don't ever give CAC coins bonuses in the regular registry...

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    I think a lot of people are missing the point.
    CAC coins have a particular look to them...I just don't care for it.
    The camel's nose is now under the tent.
    I hate to see all those heavily toned saints getting cracked & dipped for a sticker.

    Many, if not most so-called "toned" Saints exhibit an impure alloy mix, not typical toning. And its unlikely that dipping them will change their appearance to the extent that you imply. In addition to that, it sounds as if you still have the wrong impression about CAC's likes and standards.

    JA likes them crusty. I don't know anyone (well, present company excepted) that thinks he likes his coins dipped.

This discussion has been closed.