"Safe Find of 200 year old store during demo!" aka thedockter

ArizonaRareCoins · March 9, 2019 11:21PM

WOW......Amazing how his coins were just sold last month at Heritage as problem details coins, but are now listed as raw coins found in a 200 year old pottery store:

1811 $5 gold ANACS XF-45 Mount Removed, Repaired, Whizzed:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-eagles/1811-5-small-5-bd-2-r3-mount-removed-repaired-whizzed-anacs-xf45-details/a/1292-4630.s

listed on eBay: https://ebay.com/itm/1811-Key-Classic-Half-Eagle-NEAR-UNCIRC-5-Dollar-Liberty-Gold-Real-DEAL-BU-MS/293000345039?hash=item44382e75cf:g:tWQAAOSw0xxchIeU

1860-D $5 Large D -- Cleaned -- NGC Details. XF:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-half-eagles/1860-d-5-large-d-cleaned-ngc-details-xf-variety-46-ee/a/1292-4652.s

listed on eBay: https://ebay.com/itm/1860-D-Half-Eagle-Coronet-Gold-5-ABOUT-UNCIRCULATED-pretty-Rich-Early-Example/293000210966?hash=item44382c6a16:g:luAAAOSwGrVchGm1

1872-CC $10 -- Damage -- PCGS Genuine. XF Details:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-eagles/1872-cc-10-damage-pcgs-genuine-xf-details-variety-1-a/a/1292-3858.s

listed on eBay: https://ebay.com/itm/1872-CC-Liberty-Coronet-Eagle-5-ABOUT-Uncirculated-RARE-GOLD-REAL-UNGRADED/293000335382?hash=item44382e5016:g:HKkAAOSw-V1chIP6

1860-C $5 -- Cleaned -- NGC Details. XF:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-half-eagles/1860-c-5-cleaned-ngc-details-xf-variety-1/a/1292-4651.s

listed on eBay: https://ebay.com/itm/1860-C-Half-Eagle-Coronet-Gold-5-ABOUT-UNCIRCULATED-pretty-Rich-Early-Example/293000210534?hash=item44382c6866:g:qjkAAOSw829chGl3

mannie gray · March 9, 2019 11:24PM

Good detective work.
What a total lying POS!

lava · March 9, 2019 11:25PM

Nice detective work!

Wahoo554 · March 10, 2019 12:00AM

This POS has been doing this for months. Usually includes photos of some old building and sacks of silver.

batumi · March 10, 2019 12:11AM

The catogers at HA must have been unaware of the history behind this hoard. Next week these coins will miraculously transform into superb gems! Nice detive work Arizona Rare Coins!

matt_dac · March 10, 2019 2:37AM

Wow...reminder of the risks of buying raw.

1Mike1 · March 10, 2019 2:45AM

Wow! Isn't this considered fraud?

jmlanzaf · March 10, 2019 3:12AM

@1Mike1 said:
Wow! Isn't this considered fraud?

Pretty low level fraud. Made up backstory.

ricko · March 10, 2019 4:52AM

This guy has done similar stories before.... I think there are other threads here on other 'found' coins...Cheers, RickO

Outhaul · March 10, 2019 5:02AM

Thedockter? Nuff said there.

Outhaul · March 10, 2019 5:36AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMZ1zIMOds

ilmcoins · March 10, 2019 6:39AM

I am not sure how much truth is behind it but I hear Great Southern Coins plays this crackout game too. However they leave out the storyline.

sellitstore · March 10, 2019 6:47AM

I say report him to the IRS for non payment of income tax and let them sort it out with the seller.

mapleman · March 10, 2019 6:50AM

Creative marketing! I can't LOL. I think fraud is provable.

TennesseeDave · March 10, 2019 6:56AM

Send him a message and ask him about this fraud just to see what they will say. Probably won't respond.

mapleman · March 10, 2019 8:05AM

Theft by deception is a criminal offence in PA.

cheezhed · March 10, 2019 9:24AM

Looks like Heritage' photos with a black background.

AUandAG · March 10, 2019 10:03AM

Have noticed his tactics before....it could be reported and I do believe I will do just that...

bob

AUandAG · March 10, 2019 10:08AM

Go to auction and scroll down and you will see on the right: REPORT
Click on: report.
Click on: listing practices
Click on: fraudulent listing practices
Click on: You suspect listing is fraudulent

Repeat for each listing. If we all do this the fraud dept will act.

bob

ms70 · March 10, 2019 10:14AM

Nice work!

lava · March 10, 2019 10:15AM

Fraud turns on intent to deceive. While Anacs may have gotten it wrong on their grades, the story is an attempt to explain why coins of this supposed quality haven’t been graded or surfaced into the marketplace. Proving intent can be difficult, but it can be done. It looks like fraud to me.

ms70 · March 10, 2019 10:18AM

I always wondered if any of these sleezes hang out among us here, or at least read the forums.

AUandAG · March 10, 2019 10:31AM

Ebay has requirements on selling coins. One of the requirements is for the seller to disclose any issues or problems with the coins. It's a disclosure requirement that he's skirting. Clearly a violation of ebay rules.
Here is ebay policy:

General guidelines for coins and paper money
Include all relevant information that you know about the item, such as origin, date of issue, and condition
Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold – don't use stock photos
Include all information about any alterations that may have been made to the item
Individually identify every item listed to avoid misunderstandings about what is for sale
Don't list the item if you're unsure of its origin or authenticity

ms70 · March 10, 2019 10:34AM

It would be nice if eBay would let us copy & paste the OP's layout of HA & eBay listings in a report but they only give you a line & a half to explain.

AlexinPA · March 10, 2019 11:00AM

@mapleman said:
Theft by deception is a criminal offence in PA.

mapleman · March 10, 2019 11:02AM

cant use the LOL button but LOL.

BTW my last house was in Pike.

ifthevamzarockin · March 10, 2019 1:22PM

I 100% agree with you and admire your efforts & concern. I don't agree with how this seller does business. If you think ebay is going to care or do something about it, it's not going to happen. They would rather get the selling fees and make a buyer whole if needs be. Ebay will tell you if the seller doesn't have a return policy we will cover it with our buyer protection. The report button is pretty much a dead link anymore. They killed it about 4 or 5 years ago and got rid of the staff to man it. It still works for things like avoiding fees, trademark & copyright, offers to sell off ebay and so on. Even IF someone at ebay did look at it the chance of them understanding enough about coins and why the listing is fraudulent would be slim, you will be lucky if a ebay CSR in India isn't reviewing your report. I have reported counterfeit coin listings with 30 bids up to $2,000 and they won't take them down.

Sorry to be a stick in the mud

Your efforts are appreciated by the coin collecting hobby as a whole & buy collectors everywhere.

jwitten · March 10, 2019 1:31PM

It is also not allowed to use other people's picture on ebay. He is using heritage pictures. Could report him for that as well, and provide the heritage links.

Smudge · March 10, 2019 1:36PM

When I see a story about an old safe or grandpa's sdb I move on. Some are true, but I'm not comfortable buying expensive raw coins and those stories do not help.

RogerB · March 10, 2019 1:45PM

At present the ebay bids are all substantially less than the hammer price at Heritage.

WillieBoyd2 · March 10, 2019 1:47PM

He's not getting the bids?

Lets help this guy out with a better story.

ifthevamzarockin · March 10, 2019 1:48PM

@jwitten said:
It is also not allowed to use other people's picture on ebay. He is using heritage pictures. Could report him for that as well, and provide the heritage links.

I think Heritage would need to be the one to report it and if they did it would be removed right away.
( IIRC, ebay needs to make sure of proof of ownership & permission for use was not granted )

Wabbit2313 · March 10, 2019 2:20PM

I like the 3rd comment!!

.

jedm · March 10, 2019 2:38PM

Report filed.

stevek · March 10, 2019 3:14PM

<<< 200 year old pottery store >>>

I give the scammer some credit for coming up with a new story line.

Never heard of a "200 year old pottery store" find before. 🙄

Timbuk3 · March 10, 2019 4:57PM

Great detective work, thanks for sharing !!!

bolivarshagnasty · March 10, 2019 7:40PM

The coin biz can be a deceitful business. (see my "more than a bloody coincidence" thread)

numbersman · March 10, 2019 7:48PM

@mannie gray said:
Good detective work.
What a total lying POS!

+1

csdot · March 10, 2019 8:14PM

Like the unsearched rolls of Morgans, with CC end pieces. it's all BS.

savitale · March 10, 2019 8:25PM

Terrible, just terrible. I wonder what will happen if they don't sell for more than what he (presumably) paid at Heritage though?

jtlee321 · March 10, 2019 8:33PM

This is a "200 year old pottery shop"? This guy is just a nut job.

aus3000tin · March 10, 2019 8:56PM

Maybe Heritage should watermark their photos to prevent theft.

Just a thought.

Chris

stevek · March 10, 2019 9:42PM

$5 and $10 was a lot of money back then, especially for pottery.

No wonder the pottery store went out of business.

mannie gray · March 10, 2019 10:13PM

@jtlee321 said:
This is a "200 year old pottery shop"? This guy is just a nut job.

Yes but he has low overhead and fixed costs.
No need to hire a window cleaner.

Edthelorax · March 10, 2019 10:27PM

@ifthevamzarockin said:
I 100% agree with you and admire your efforts & concern. I don't agree with how this seller does business. If you think ebay is going to care or do something about it, it's not going to happen. They would rather get the selling fees and make a buyer whole if needs be. Ebay will tell you if the seller doesn't have a return policy we will cover it with our buyer protection. The report button is pretty much a dead link anymore. They killed it about 4 or 5 years ago and got rid of the staff to man it. It still works for things like avoiding fees, trademark & copyright, offers to sell off ebay and so on. Even IF someone at ebay did look at it the chance of them understanding enough about coins and why the listing is fraudulent would be slim, you will be lucky if a ebay CSR in India isn't reviewing your report. I have reported counterfeit coin listings with 30 bids up to $2,000 and they won't take them down.

Sorry to be a stick in the mud

Your efforts are appreciated by the coin collecting hobby as a whole & buy collectors everywhere.

At least the coins are real. The fact that Ebay would rather make the $$$ than provide a buyer safe place to purchase authentic items will eventually be their demise. It may take another decade, but it will happen. At some point, the fraud and Ebay's reluctance to address it will come back and get them where it hurts. Same with "we buy gold" B&M coin dealers or slabbing AT coins. Eventually when the trust of the consumer is broken in a service industry, those providing service will lose the respect they need to thrive.

If you really want an Ebay counterfeit listing removed, PM me with the item number and the diagnostics to prove beyond any doubt the item is counterfeit with enough time left to make it happen.

If we as collectors do not come together to make Ebay change, they won't..... until it's too late for them, and us. IMHO

Ed

ifthevamzarockin · March 10, 2019 10:45PM

@Edthelorax
"If you really want an Ebay counterfeit listing removed, PM me with the item number and the diagnostics to prove beyond any doubt the item is counterfeit with enough time left to make it happen."

Do you have a special "in" with ebay?

How many listings would you have time to have removed in a day?

Here's you one to practice with 352613487173 it should be quite clear to you it is not genuine, if you need diagnostics feel free to PM.

Edthelorax · March 10, 2019 10:48PM

@ifthevamzarockin said:
@Edthelorax
"If you really want an Ebay counterfeit listing removed, PM me with the item number and the diagnostics to prove beyond any doubt the item is counterfeit with enough time left to make it happen."

Do you have a special "in" with ebay?

How many listings would you have time to have removed in a day?

Here's you one to practice with 352613487173 it should be quite clear to you it is not genuine, if you need diagnostics feel free to PM.

Wrong D and placement.
LMK if it's up in 12 hrs

ifthevamzarockin · March 10, 2019 10:50PM

@Edthelorax

283408712491 Here is another one for ya. I can find em' faster than you can report them.

Couple more for ya. 372621283481 153406603166

Edthelorax · March 10, 2019 11:02PM

@ifthevamzarockin funny you picked one from my stomping grounds.

Edthelorax · March 10, 2019 11:09PM

@ifthevamzarockin said:
@Edthelorax

283408712491 Here is another one for ya. I can find em' faster than you can report them.

Couple more for ya. 372621283481 153406603166

I can't keep up with the ones I find. That is one reason for the diagnostics and PM. More important is getting enough support to force Ebay to make the changes. Stick to the ones that are high dollar or many multiple listings.

ifthevamzarockin · March 10, 2019 11:10PM

@Edthelorax

What method of reporting are you using?

"Safe Find of 200 year old store during demo!" aka thedockter

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