Options
1904 $20 MS65 CAC Liberty sells for, Holy Mackerel!
Kenneth1830
Posts: 44 ✭✭
$22,500.
According to Great Collections, someone paid this amount to acquire a seemingly very attractive 1904 MS65 CAC Liberty. These sell for a small fraction of that price, USUALLY ABOUT $3,000. Why so much?
4
Comments
I never understood this one, either.
My YouTube Channel
The coin
That's the going price for a 1904 PCGS/CAC-MS66+ !!
Actually that is 43% more that the two 66+ coins to sell at auction. Both sold within the past two years for $14,688 and $16,800 respectfully. Prior to these, five CAC 66's sold in the $9,000-$13,000 range.
Crazy purchase!
That's insane.
I consigned that coin along with others – I sold them to my parents between 1973 in 1976 – I’m giving a talk on the Coins their history going back to the 1970s and about the auction results this Saturday here at the farm show at 11 o’clock – That should say fun show
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
WOW
@FredWeinberg You go to farm shows? Where? And they do coins at them too?
wow
bob
That’s what happens when you use your voice instead of typing!
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
How would you grade it, Fred? Should that beauty have gotten a gold cac sticker?
@FredWeinberg commented on it here as he was the consignor.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12165795#Comment_12165795
A good article was posted by PCGS about the coins.
GreatCollections to Auction Ruth Weinberg Estate of Old Green Holders
https://pcgs.com/news/greatcollections-to-auction-ruth-weinberg-estate-of-old-green-holders
When I saw the invoice photos in the article, I thought the 1904 $20 (presumably the one sold at $1,100 in 1979) would not show too great of a return. I thought wrong. It must have been much nicer than 65. Looks like a number of them brought strong premiums.
https://greatcollections.com/search.php?fromyear=&toyear=2018&grade_range_1=1&grade_range_2=70&ungraded=0&ungraded=1&fromprice=&toprice=&mode=product&series=0&q=Ruth+Weinberg&listing_type=4&frombid=0&tobid=500&sort=12&action=Price
PCGS Auction Prices shows a record for the 1904 at $37,375.00, but that was for a Double Struck in Collar error. For some reason they don't list this $22,500 one.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I called it a jam back in the 70s – and agreed with the MS 65 grade in 1988 when PCGS-Roushar graded it – obviously there were at least two bitters the thought the coin was a 67 – it was a super point to see in hand – incredible Luster and beautiful golden services surfaces
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
By today's standards the coin is an easy 66+ IMHO with a shot at 67 if the standards loosen again. Someone bought the coin and not the holder.
There is a less than zero chance this coin is a 67 "by today's standards". If cracked, it might even go down.
Wow, amazing !!!
There are 2 67's graded at PCGS. Seems unlikely to me that this coin will make 67. Seems more likely to me that someone bought a wonderful 66 for a $15k premium
Latin American Collection
It seems to me that this is one of the times where the green sticker hurts the value of the coin. JA did not gold sticker the coin as a lock 66 (certainly doesn't mean it isn't and won;t be in a 66 holder soon). It just seems that a fresh coin with no sticker might solicit more grand fantasies of a 67 than a green stickered 65.
Latin American Collection
LOL!! Is this a serious post? I doubt you can find a $20 graded recently in a 65 much less 64 that or below even comes close to this one!
I better check the "stack."
At least 2 people liked it a lot. Seems high though.
I agree. On the other hand, I have seen plenty of CAC green sticker coins upgrade. I suspect the bidders willing to pay a large premium have too.
I said IF standards loosened again.
A fool and his money...
Crack and send Skippy, then come back and cry rather than laugh.
So you can't find one? Just what I figured.
Not sure what coin you are all looking at. There is NO WAY this coin is 66+ or 67. Someone wanted the holder sticker combo.
.
Maybe they think the chocolate inside will be extra delicious
You called it an easy 66+. Not a chance. Zero.
At no point did I say it was, if you re-read my response you can see the only thing I said was that it is not going to downgrade.
That is what I thought last month when an old holder CAC went DOWN 2 grades.
Here is the 66+ on the front page of coinfacts. The coin above is not even close.
.
.
That would imply that the buyer intends to not crack it. In which case the 22,500 becomes beyond-beyond-beyond absurd.
I’d be scared to gouge it while cracking it out ....
And I can’t imagine the buyer would send it in as-is for grade reconsideration .... maybe with a gold bean on it but not with the greenie.
I remember that double eagle along with a 1932 Indian Eagle from the same collection that I bid what I thought was fairly aggressively on...but was well short of the winning bid - https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/606029/1932-Indian-Gold-Eagle-PCGS-MS-64-CAC-OGH
My opinion also. A huge premium for a minimal quality difference.
That same coin in an NGC holder may not be marketable even with CAC sticker right ?
Not necessarily.
My YouTube Channel
That's a nice one!
My YouTube Channel
Pedigree has its privileges.....
The Weinberg Moniker!!!!
Too much cheek chatter for an upgrade
BHNC #203
People do py large premiums on coins the believe are a lock for a 'guanteed' upgrade. I am not one of them. Beautiful original coin imo, but to a possible crack-out to MS 67, I believe a lotto ticket purchase has better odds. Kudos to Fred Weinberg in obtaining nice pieces on behalf of his Mom. I tried and got blown out on the ones I bid on in that sale and I just wished to get even one!
My guess is that the buyer has some type of inkling as to what they were bidding.
The holder/sticker combination may be tough to find, but its not $22,000 hard to find.
This leaves the only other option as I see it that the buyer felt the coin was significantly undergraded and worth 66+/67 money.
Not only do you have to be knowledgeable in grading but you have to believe in yourself and the coin that much to lay out some serious money for it.
I believe the winning bidder believed in the coin and was willing to put their money where their mouth is.
You cant always judge a coin by the picture
I thought it may have been two last-moment, nuclear bids, but here's when Bidder 11 and Bidder 12 began the war ...
https://greatcollections.com/Coin/606033/1904-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-MS-65-CAC-OGH
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I got a fever, and the only cure is more Cowbell!!!
Super nice type 3, but I had dropped out at 5 g's all the same
I'm watching something similar unfold...
Guess which one is the 65 (at $66,000 now) and the 64 (at $26,000 now)
Answer...Bottom is MS64
My Saint Set
Yikes. Either the luster is off on the 64, or it's booming on the 65. But that top one is beat up.
If you saw it in person, you’d be very impressed
With it
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I have never understood the allure of spending that sort of money on common year coins (1904 Liberty, 1924 Saint, 1926 and 1932 Indian), even if in a high grade.
For $20,000+, a collector could buy something unique and rare.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album