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1904 $20 MS65 CAC Liberty sells for, Holy Mackerel!

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  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess, and it is absolutely a guess, is that this coin was viewed in-hand at GC or at a show where GC was set up and that it was more likely purchased by an experienced crackout dealer than by a collector. This is all just a guess, but it makes lots of sense.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unbelievable lol - that guy is high buyer!

    This is a $5000 coin retail $4000 Wholesale.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Unbelievable lol - that guy is high buyer!

    This is a $5000 holder retail $4000 Wholesale.

    Fify

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great coin ,no doubt, but not a 67 in my opinion...To many field scuffs..

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @csdot said:
    I have never understood the allure of spending that sort of money on common year coins (1904 Liberty, 1924 Saint, 1926 and 1932 Indian), even if in a high grade.

    For $20,000+, a collector could buy something unique and rare.

    My opinion also, though from US collecting the alternatives will only be somewhat scarce unless from specialization or lower quality coin from a non-federal issue.

  • batumibatumi Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @thefinn said:
    A fool and his money...

    I'm watching something similar unfold...
    Guess which one is the 65 (at $66,000 now) and the 64 (at $26,000 now)


    Answer...Bottom is MS64

    Nice pieces, though I wouldn't go MS65 Money on the upper coin!

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019 6:09PM

    I don’t think it’s a 66 coin. No CAC gold sticker either.

    What they paid way over 66 money.

    However I hope they enjoy their coin. Auctions can get wild huh. I think the buyer a registry / CAC hobbyist w really deep pockets.

    66 plus a long shot IMO. I don’t like cheek chatter possible rt obv scuff.

    Wow bid war on speculation about potential upgrade.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @batumi said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @thefinn said:
    A fool and his money...

    I'm watching something similar unfold...
    Guess which one is the 65 (at $66,000 now) and the 64 (at $26,000 now)


    Answer...Bottom is MS64

    Nice pieces, though I wouldn't go MS65 Money on the upper coin!

    Can’t grade off an image. I asked Laura about the ngc coin for a friend and she was NOT complimentary

  • batumibatumi Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭

    TDN: I agree one can't actually grade off an images. The images above do show some heavy hits that I definitely would consider, and would pass on the top coin at a MS65 price. The lower coin, while not really attractive imo, appears to be at the grade stated. I do believe, however, that their is no substitute for hands on viewing by oneself or by someone you trust.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019 6:46AM

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Can’t grade off an image. I asked Laura about the ngc coin for a friend and she was NOT complimentary

    The reverse of the 64 was 63B so the obverse carried the weight on grade.
    It was in the wrong holder & I was worried about it crossing.
    Of course, in hand would be better.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please show reverses of the above two.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019 1:18PM

    @7Jaguars said:
    Please show reverses of the above two.


    Auction Ended...Sold for $78,000 & $38,400

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes, well the reverse of the first looks marginally better but at least from the photos appears to show a superior piece going for much less. Perhaps the buyers or those who saw the coins in person might chime in?

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Marginally better? I see 3 full grades difference between those two reverses

  • batumibatumi Posts: 796 ✭✭✭✭

    Upon seeing the reverses of the two, I would pass on both. There are others out there.

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see top as 64+ and bottom as 63 (top gets 1/2 bump for toning)

  • I think many collectors get caught up in the chase when a key date and or high grade coin becomes available. It may take years, but when one ultimately does surface the collector often loses patience and loosens their standards.

    Even if this 65 Liberty upgraded to a 66, no guarantee whatsoever! it would only be worth about half of what the winning bidder paid. Winning bidder we would love to get your thoughts.

    Regarding the 1929 Saints, Wow! those are both unattractive coins. The 65 is over-graded. What is the population? There should be others around? but it could take years for the next one surface?

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As I’ve stated before:

    The coins collectors tend to undergrade are those with virgin surfaces but with hits

    The coins collectors tend to overgade are those with no hits but less than virgin surfaces

    The MS65 1929 is an example of the former

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CAC green.... hmmmmmm..........too bad CoinFacts is FUBAR so we can't follow the saga. :D

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That sure is a beautiful ms65!

    Not even Julian has ms65's that nice!!

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019 10:57PM

    Its unbelievable what he paid got in bid war. Even if it were to upgrade his return still be negative with the lunar bid.

    If it’s above 65 will believe it when c it. I can c somebody bidding 10-15 pct over bid for potential upgrade but the field thins considerably after that. On this one guy literally buried in it. But strange things happen.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReadyFireAim said:

    @thefinn said:
    A fool and his money...

    I'm watching something similar unfold...
    Guess which one is the 65 (at $66,000 now) and the 64 (at $26,000 now)


    Answer...Bottom is MS64

    The more dinged up top coin obviously must be the higher graded one.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And less well struck in the thigh/leg area especially, not to mention THE FACE which has been blasted across the nose and brow on the first - I'd say that rates a relatively HUGE demerit and will clearly disagree with TDN on this, even if the reverse is not quite there (I do not see a three grade difference there at all - maybe 1 1/2l).

    Skier that was a good smartass response! LOL

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In hand perhaps it looks ms68 and a lock 67. Images are unfair to real life and the new owner will make a decent flip. Wise shopping on some collectors and investors parts.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have not seen the coin, in hand. However, I strongly doubt that the price realized was due to the assigned grade, the CAC sticker or the PCGS registry.

    My guess is that two or more sharp bidders who viewed the coin in person, thought that they could get the coin in a higher grade holder - high enough to make a profit.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mark - Welcome back - great news.

    And I agree with your First Post !

    The coin was incredible to see in-hand.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I have not seen the coin, in hand. However, I strongly doubt that the price realized was due to the assigned grade, the CAC sticker or the PCGS registry.

    My guess is that two or more sharp bidders who viewed the coin in person, thought that they could get the coin in a higher grade holder - high enough to make a profit.

    Welcome back!

  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭✭

    I love coins like this. I would love to put that coin on exhibit and just see what everyone has to say....because EVERYONE will have an opinion. All the way from hey its a shot 67, to it says write here in Coin World that the coin is worth $3250, and I am offering you $3500 why won't you take it!!!

    My favorite thing about the coin is Fred's story.

    Collecting since 1976.

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