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I don’t normally post pics of my Indian Cents...

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,419 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

...but this one is too bad to keep to myself!

Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is the story behind this?

    Many happy BST transactions
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I want it! Just tell me how much.

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EagleEye said:
    I want it! Just tell me how much.

    Wrong forum! Go to the BST! 🤑

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what date is T89T? :o

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool actually!

    My YouTube Channel

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some type of error I guess. :/

  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I want it, but why?

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there a mintmatk beneath the wreath on the reverse? Possibly as S?

  • bjaminbjamin Posts: 141 ✭✭✭

    I always feel a little left out and dumb when two experts start talking in their heady own advanced numismatic language while leaving me in my early/beginning hobby stage where I realize I know little to nothing.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2018 10:56PM

    @bjamin said:
    I always feel a little left out and dumb when two experts start talking in their heady own advanced numismatic language while leaving me in my early/beginning hobby stage where I realize I know little to nothing.

    Too true. But coin looks a bit funny. ;)

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow - now that's crazy. Even I can see somethings not right..... :D

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bjamin said:
    I always feel a little left out and dumb when two experts start talking in their heady own advanced numismatic language while leaving me in my early/beginning hobby stage where I realize I know little to nothing.

    It's e pluribus unum out of known 1891 contemporary counterfeit IHC's.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • tychojoetychojoe Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2018 4:42AM

    @Broadstruck said:
    It's e pluribus unum out of known 1891 contemporary counterfeit IHC's.

    Did any of the pluribus look as bad as this one? :smile:

    My Sets: Barber Halves, US Type
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tychojoe said:

    @Broadstruck said:
    It's e pluribus unum out of known 1891 contemporary counterfeit IHC's.

    Did any of the pluribus look as bad as this one? :smile:

    Last one I saw was about 5 years ago and they are all really crude looking.

    The neat part is why in the world would someone spend so much time making a counterfeit cent when it was just as time consuming to do higher denominations. I guess just as cashiers today question the authenticity of $50 and $100 bills, no one ever inspects a $1 bill.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • KoinickerKoinicker Posts: 289 ✭✭✭

    I've got a couple of these as well - they are cool. At least 50 are estimated to still exist



  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,775 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had never seen this particular counterfeit! Way kewl!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting....I did not know about this IHC counterfeit.... certainly obvious to those who know IHC's.... I am sure it fooled people back in the day... and even now for new collectors. Cheers, RickO

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In spite of their being obvious counterfeits they appear to have spent a long time in circulation. I guess it is true that the bad penny always comes back!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,621 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm guessing VF. Very funny.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • jabbajabba Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s cool


    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2018 10:01AM

    Wow, now that is seriously cool. Does anyone know the history behind these pieces?

    Edited to add... are they made of copper?

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,275 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Raybo said:
    I want it, but why?

    its the disease we got raybo, me included :|

  • KoinickerKoinicker Posts: 289 ✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:
    Wow, now that is seriously cool. Does anyone know the history behind these pieces?

    Edited to add... are they made of copper?

    They are copper. And unfortunately after 2+ years of fairly exhaustive reviews of historic newspapers and other related documents I have not found a single report of a counterfeit '1891' dated Indian cent. I've found a handful of other reports of contemporary counterfeit struck counterfeit Indians, but weirdly those dates have not yet surfaced (at least in my research they haven't).

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, 50 known and in what reference work are they listed with a catalogue number? Weight, size close to an IHC, could they be a restrikes or overstrikes? Tell us more. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,775 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Notice that the 1’s in the date were punched with the right part of an M punch cut into two pieces, and that the M of AMERICA was punched from the two pieces with the left piece predominant.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • KoinickerKoinicker Posts: 289 ✭✭✭

    @Namvet69 said:
    Okay, 50 known and in what reference work are they listed with a catalogue number? Weight, size close to an IHC, could they be a restrikes or overstrikes? Tell us more. Peace Roy

    These have never been published in a reference as far as I'm aware. But give it about a year and this variety, along with many other contemporary counterfeit U.S. copper coins, will be published in an upcoming book on this subject.

    A population of 50 is a conservative estimate based on having owned 5-7 of these over the years, and casually seen a handful more. I looked in my box and forgot I own a double-struck example of this variety - pretty cool piece.
    Size is approximately the same as an IHC planchet (if not slightly larger) 19.0 to 19.25mm
    Weight is slightly high (but within general mint tolerance) - 3.1 to 3.2g

    Great additional info @CaptHenway

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, thanks for that. I have to check a bunch of IHC for the funky 1's. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've got an IHC dated boldly as made in year "7". The 1, 9, and 0 are very,very faint. It's the centerpiece of my modest IHC collection and I consider myself fortunate to own it.

    Bona fide mint error. i'm thinking the coin was struck from a die with grease filled date digits except for the "7".

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Koinicker said:

    @lkenefic said:
    Wow, now that is seriously cool. Does anyone know the history behind these pieces?

    Edited to add... are they made of copper?

    They are copper. And unfortunately after 2+ years of fairly exhaustive reviews of historic newspapers and other related documents I have not found a single report of a counterfeit '1891' dated Indian cent. I've found a handful of other reports of contemporary counterfeit struck counterfeit Indians, but weirdly those dates have not yet surfaced (at least in my research they haven't).

    The HT tokens of the 1830's made sense, the civil war tokens and store token made sense since commerce needs to keep on and currency was scarce. But the Panic of 1893 was still a couple of years away, and lower denomination currencies weren't as affected. So, why a counterfeit 1 cent?? Unless someone was testing out die press capabilities. .. just a hunch.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.

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