thoughts on the new hot topics?
Gazes
Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
a new hot topics posted---interesting thoughts about a major change regarding how coins will be purchased in the future.
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If they are only relying on crack-outs, they will be broke in no time. Baltimore was some TOUGH grading last week. Tougher than the tight standards we are used to.
It makes me mad, because I see so much over graded crap, from the past, in numerically high plastic. Yet, when I submit my hand picked coins that took me over a decade to assemble, many in old slabs; I may not get the grades that they truly deserve, because of current tightening due to abuse and company competition.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I think it is an interest topic. I personally have minimal interactions with dealers, having never even attended a coin show.
I do hope the trade of coin dealer does not fade away as one day I would like to become one. I cannot imagine the crackout game will continue with the Clash of the Tightening (of grades).
I do wish I had a close or closer relationship with a dealer or two.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I think the article is poorly written and poorly thought out.
It complains about crack outs while also claiming that crack outs are ending due to tightening standards.
It complains about 20-something dealers but doesn't talk about 20-something buyers. You cannot expect the 20-something buyers to be the same as the "Class of 59". After all, they grew up in a digital world. They have FAR MORE trust in digital business at a distance than the old-timers.
In the end, some 20-something dealers will be successful and become the Class of 2059 (retirement date). They will move forward in the new coin market. Other 20-something dealers will not become 30-something dealers. In the end, their success or failure will depend on how they position themselves in the market, not how Laura wants the market to be.
I would point to Texas GSE. Many if not most of the Forum members scoff at the modern NCLT market. Yet, Texas GSE has made a business out of it. That doesn't mean Legend is wrong and Texas GSE is right. It also, clearly, doesn't mean that Texas GSE is wrong and Legend is right. The market is fluid and people will ultimately find their niche or find a new career.
Interesting subject, and I like the sentiments expressed. Still, I have to believe that someone will seize the opportunities made available as the “Class of 59” fades away.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What you talkin’ bout Willis...👱♂️
There is not a future that has coin shows or coin dealers in anything more than nominal numbers. Printed newspapers, travel agents, insurance agents, retail checkers, pay phones, shopping malls, gas station attendants...the list of entities that are gone, or going, will continue to grow as technology progresses.
I would disagree...I think that grading was very good for many people there. Especially what I was hearing from the 20-somethings at the show...and others that are in the 30-somethings.
Crossovers were liberal (as they typically are during these shows).
My main issue with Laura's post is this:
Is she simply enabling these people that she's condemning?
If you're buying coins from the people that are doing as she says or she is soliciting consignments from them, what right does she have to criticize their business model?
Now, I happen to agree with her stance on this being bad for the hobby and it angers me as it changes our hobby from coins to plastic...BUT. If we're going to complain, simply avoid doing business with them and stand behind your words...
Laura makes many good points. I am a Class of 59 Collector, so I can relate. I see a lot of youngbloods riding the gradeflation wave. To them, the slab and the grade are more important than the coin, and focusing on the "+" rather than luster, strike, or eye appeal of the coin is the focus. On the other hand, some of these youngbloods are extremely intelligent, smarter than I ever was at their age. I'm thinking they might eventually figure out how to put the horse in front of the cart. Maybe they will eventually figure out how to grade for themselves. Unfortunately the current environment and game of slabs and CAC stickers gives them a pass.
Laura does conflate issues. I don't see how the mode of sale factors in. Ebay, and now Instagram are in. Bricks and mortar are on their way out- I used to buy all my coins at the local coin store, but that aint happening any more. Auctions are somewhere in between. This isn't unique to the coin business. I used to go down to the bank branch in town to get cash or make a deposit. Now, I push a keystroke on the computer. Case in point, I went to the Baltimore show last week and attended the Stack's Bowers auctions. I sat in on the Thursday afternoon auction session. I shared the room with about 100 chairs and 6 people, 3 of whom were running the auction. The winning bidders were all on the internet or the phone.
How many coins did you submit at the show? There's a big difference between hearing and reality.
Yes , please let's hear from the fortunate. I was 0 for, several dealers I heard from were 0 for. The best I heard was from one dealer who was 4 for 6. He was alone.
I know of no evidence (or scuttlebutt) that crossovers are typically liberal at shows.
I don't know.
To begin with, I think the article meanders a bit and so the focus is not always there and this makes it more difficult to discuss. If the complaint is gradeflation then that is not the fault of the older dealers any less than it is the fault of the younger dealers. If the complaint is that the younger dealers will not know how to grade raw coins as well as the older dealers then that might be true, though the older dealers would have to bear some (most?) of the responsibility for this fact as the collateral damage of rushing to encapsulate anything and everything of value over the last three decades. Essentially, the well was already run dry for these younger dealers. If the complaint is that the younger dealers would rather buy up coins, crack them out for resubmission and hope for an upgrade then I would suggest that they are following the (sometimes) incredibly successful path of the grading arbitrage pioneers, which happen to generally be the older dealers. Lastly, if the complaint is that the younger dealers won't discuss coins with the public or learn about coins as deeply as older dealers then she may have a point, but it is my suspicion that those who cater to clients who wish to learn will always have a certain level of success.
By the way, I am closer in age to the "Class of '59" than the "20-somethings".
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Once again, she ain't wrong..
IMO younger or entry level dealers/VPD’s have to get it in when they can and where they can. You can just go out and buy coins at retail from dealers and sell them and make money...you have to find a niche and roll with it. If I am correct, David Bowers hustled and flipped coins fast to get started from what I have read in his stories from his books.
These days you can’t go to the bank and get silver coins or get leftover hoard coins from the GSA or whatever people did to get started in Coins. Today (as probably how it was back then) we have to pick, study, and hustle.
The article said these “baby dealers” cannot grade coins...so how do they manage to be successful at all? Before the TPG’s some dealers sold coins way outside any standards from a grade or 10 up. The TPG’s level the field and actually set the rules for the game.
You may not like it, but nobody is going to tell you they are sorry for trying to make money their way. Maybe they don’t care to be and I quote, “on path to be a dinosour” like you. You may think your way of doing things is the best, so be it, but don’t knock someone for trying.
I just think the article was way off base and kind of insulting! I respectfully disagree, thanks for letting me vent.
Maybe I should not have discussed the grading issue-but it is what is drawing these kids into a fast buck world.
To me , it is a tragedy the days of a David Akers, me, guys like a Doug Winter, etc are almost over in MY opinion. They do NOT have to be. I know I could make a ton just doing crack outs-I always felt the hobby needed good retailers. To me, the ultimate high i building a great collection. Money can be made dealing with the public (just not as much as crack outs etc). In fact I see the market as wide open for these kids if they were willing to put in the time and effort. They simply are not willing.
Sure people love auctions, but more people enjoy and need the personal touch and assistance of a dealer. That will NEVER change. Losing dealers to talk too, will only make the hobby slide.
The worthless PNG should be promoting the concept of dealing w/the public to the kiddies. But then they will not care until they run out of funding. Someone has to try and refocus a few of these youngsters.
This is about looking towards the future. I think the future is only 5-10 years away.
I think in any business one must be clear on how they are adding value to the value chain. The crackout game is arbitrage, capitalizing on market inefficiencies. Gradeflation presents a temporary opportunity for arbitrage but as more people enter the game, standards tighten, or enough coins are cracked, the arbitrage diminishes. This dynamic seems separate from the fact that fewer dealers are entering the hobby with a longer term focus on adding sustained value to the retail side of the hobby.
Latin American Collection
The only solution is a new sticker company.
The new sticker could designate what "class" the grader is from!
GoDaddy charges 99c for a website. Who wants to go halvsies on THE NEXT BIG THING?
I love that you called me out on this. It makes this place a more honest and informative venue.
We submitted over 400 coins, so I k ow a thing or two about the results.
The crossovers are typically looser on the Free Crossover events as more coins are submitted...and keep in mind, PCGS does it to increase revenue and reduce the amount of NGC coins in the market. And they only get a decent return on it IF they crossover the coin. Otherwise it’s just $10 and that won’t buy a convention center lunch...
But, the real reason 20-somethings do this is simply that it’s an easier way to make money. There aren’t many retailers or auction companies that have appeared in the last decade and have succeeded. Just think about the barriers of entry into really making it as a major retailer.
Looking at the overall gist of the Hot Topic--the decline of dealers and more purchases through auction by collectors, I have noticed over the last several years more and more dealers are stocking their inventories directly through auctions (my post relates primarily to coins $5000 and up). The coins are then marked up to pay for their costs and make a reasonable profit (most of the time). The problem for me is that many of the coins listed, are coins are considered at auction and ended up not buying for some reason. Occasionally, a dealer will purchase a coin from auction and cross it or get it stickered and I do find value in that. However, if the inventory of a dealer is primarily filled by coins that were purchased from auction "as is", it is unlikely I will need a coin from them. If I did want it, I would have already purchased it.
The dealers who I value the most are the ones that list coins that were purchased outside of an auction. These are coins that I would not have an opportunity to buy "but for" the dealer having a source to purchase them.
So my perspective is that if dealers stock their coins primarily from auctions (again I am speaking specifically about coins $5000 and up) then I think their numbers will dwindle as people buy directly from auctions. Those dealers who through hard work and reputation are able to offer fresh coins from other sources will certainly get my business and I am sure will prosper.
Thanks back! How have you been doing on crack-outs? That was Laura's point and where I have noticed the real tightening, on nicer raw coins. I also have done OK on crossovers when there is only 10 bucks in it for PCGS if it fails, but Baltimore was hard on those also, on mine anyway. Raw coins were TOUGH!
The crack-out folks may never recover from the Sotheby's auction pain. Those coins sold for 1-3 grades higher in price.
The fear that there won't be enough dealers in the future is wholly unfounded.
History and demand create vacuums that can suck in the most unlikely candidates. Vacuums simply can't exist so there will be exactly as many dealers as the future market needs. It's also a safe bet that the vast majority of these 20 something dealers will spend their entire lives in coins. They will learn and grow. Some will fall by the wayside as dealers but they won't fall far from coins.
The "future" isn't coming in five or six years but is already here. The demographic change in the hobby started in 1999 with the states quarters and was well underway by the depression '08. It is merely gathering steam now and what will be is coming into focus a little better. The change will be nearly complete in only another ten years or so and most of the changes will be apparent in even less.
The '59'ers have been excellent stewards of the coins and numismatics but now it's about time we will be passing the baton to a new generation. This new generation wasn't encouraged and directed when they were young collectors but it's safe to predict they won't just take numismatics in a completely new direction. Young people are getting interested in coins for the exact same reasons we did. It's fascination in coins, their art and beauty, their importance, rarity, and history. Coins are coins and coin collectors will always be coin collectors and will need dealers to supply them at the lowest possible price.
I can't help but suspect that a great deal of disagreement about grading is always related to definitions. Why wouldn't younger dealers have different definitions and the apparent "tightening" now may be a recognition of these differences.
I find it had to fathom that grading is dependent on locale.
The hobby is evolving... and, with the internet, much faster than in the 'old' days. Crack outs and gradeflation are a phase of evolution...and, at some point, extinction must occur - at least in respect to these two aspects. The real issue is buying, selling, collecting.... the methods are simply how it occurs. Standards - real standards - will contribute to the end of both games (crackouts and gradeflation). I am older than the Class of 59 ....and I find it interesting to watch the game as it progresses. Cheers, RickO
Not picking on you because I see the same form others. Do you realize that you're taking both sides of the argument? Either you want the "crap over-grading" of the past or you want the tighter (and IMHO still too loose) grading of the present. You can't have it both ways - better grades for what you feel are your nice coins and tighter grades for "everybody else's crap".
Be glad I'm not setting the standards. All of those so-called "cabinet friction" coins now in 63/64 and even 65 holders just because they're flashy and have great color would be AU55. Only real uncs would make it into unc holders.
If PCGS wants to tighten grading, fine, but they also need to buy back the coins that are now over-graded, which they are not doing. I have sent regrades in, clearly over-graded, along with some that are clearly under-graded. Funny how they always come back the same.
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Grading is not so much dependent on locale as dependent on luck. Grading is subjective, so it's going to vary at least a little bit from day to day, if not coin to coin. (Granted, that's an oversimplification, but it's still true.) So if grading was tight in Baltimore, it could just as easily be loose at the next Baltimore show. Such is the nature of the game.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
For a collector who is able to follow all of the auctions, knows the market, and feels comfortable bidding based on images and not physical inspection of the coins, you are correct. But there are a lot of collectors who don't fit that description, including some of the most sophisticated collectors in the hobby.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
As a member of the “younger generation of dealers (25yo)” I have seen this going on and think there are quite a few important considerations. This is reaction to something, not a cause and as a hobby it is important to look at why.
First off, most 20 year olds start as vest pocket, wholesale style dealers. Now they just happen to include crackouts in their skill set because there is money there. There is nothing saying they won’t eventually change business models as time goes on and fill in the gaps.
The second and for me the most important is the incentives to set up a retail centric business are very low, the lowest they have ever been. The line between retail and wholesale is thin. Wholesalers are asking strong prices (as even wholesalers can quickly throw things on eBay to get their “number”) and the retail customers have just about as much data as any dealer. So why risk and throw this huge effort into retail, which by the way doesn’t always turn up at shows, when you can get 85-95% of your “number” walking around the show in 2 days. For the average dealers I think this is a likely thought process. Now if someone comes along and buys the best and deals in the top 10%, thats different; you have a chance to build collections. I think we will see the average, discerning collector lose out the most. They will just be buying coins from home online and lose that relationship. The smartest big collectors will still seek out guidance and there will still be dealers, though fewer to talk to. These smart collectors will have to make it worthwhile though and pay top money for the right coins. For your average 20-30 year old, finding and interacting with these clients is unlikely as they have not made a name to attract them yet. Again not impossible, but your average dealer is going to struggle with it.
Next is the lack of barriers to entry. Sometimes you wonder, “Man what is the point of retail when “Joey” who sets up at 4 local shows a year undercuts you by $50 and your client goes and buys that coin, to add insult to injury your coin is usually nicer (or even worse CAC’d) because you actually know what your doing. Everyone has access to eBay and making a website isn't hard. Just about anyone can get a table. This is why the PCGS shows are so good for collectors. The serious dealers with important coins are there. Professionalism is very low in this industry, but when the more serious dealers get together at the PCGS Shows the results have been fantastic for most. I think a major change in shows will come. I think boutique style shows will be the way to go for the major retailers of the future.
On a brief note, which could be its own post; the telephone book auctions have sucked so much money out of the bourse its not even funny. Naturally introverted and your uneducated collectors are flocking to those. Again boutique auctions like Legends, Kagin’s, and more interesting auctions are bringing more money because you can look at all the lots without losing your mind and they get buzz going. An auction should enhance a show, not kill it.
Lastly my generation has not had a “boom”. Most a scrappy dealers are just trying to make stuff work. They don’t have that cushy inventory or personal collection to fall back on if the bills are too much. This makes them try to keep cost low and inventory move. Why risk and extra $10,000 a year to take big fancy tables at the majors, again with the pricing spread (on average coins) what is the point to sell a few coin “retail”, where luck and your ability to make less that the other guy are your biggest distinguishing factors.
For now Laura and others (I know others have mentioned it in their newsletters too) are right about this. I hope though my generation can use technology and ingenuity to prove them wrong and continue building meaningful, beautiful collections for clients.
Partner @Gold Hill Coin
The point @Walkerfan was making, is that consistency is needed. We don’t want to see standards need to be tightened because a loose period brought some embarrassing results. If questionable items were being passed, why were others rejected? Why were those questionable items passed in the first place instead of keeping the standards consistent? (The answer as always is money/revenue; the inconsistency leads to more submissions and generates revenue that would otherwise have dropped off if people didn’t need a reason to regrade coins).
Then you guys don’t really understand the concept of “market grading,” which at least PCGS has been open about from the beginning.
The “grade” assigned is not a grade in the “state of preservation” sense. Rather it is a valuation - I.e., the TPG graders feel the coin is worth 63 or whatever money. They are “worthing” coins, not grading them.
The other issue is the increase or decrease in valuation given market conditions. What you see as “loose grading” is really a higher market valuation at the time. When the market is “hot,” it takes less coin to bring 63 money than when the market is in recession, as it is now.
I’m not saying market grading is right. I personally don’t like it. Unfortunately, dealers do and that was how this whole thing started. In fact, at the beginning and for quite a few years, collectors had to submit coins thru an authorized dealer. TPG was and still is primarily a marketing tool.
So why aren’t @Walkerfan ‘s coins being upgraded? Why is market grading being selectively applied? Are certain “market makers” the only beneficiaries of “market grading”?
For the record---I have not submitted any coins for regrade, YET, but I plan to do so in the future sometime.
I just want to be treated fairly when the time comes.
@U1chicago is correct, though----consistency is what we all want.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Ugh this was about the youngsters not wanting to do retail-not a fight about grading (that is another thread another time)
Your coins will be worthed however the TPG is worthing coins at the time you submit. If the market has become more active than it is right now, the “grades” assigned will be somewhat looser than today. If the market is tighter, the “grades” will be tighter; if it’s the same the “grades” will be about the same as now. That’s how they do it. Just google “what is market grading in coins”, there’s dozens of links explaining.
And, no, I don’t believe there is a deliberate favoritism.
If you want “consistency,” then you need to convince the TPG’s to go back to more of a technical grading approach. By definition, market grading will never be consistent.
I am only a few years younger than the class of 59, so I am not a young dealer.
I am however a newer dealer as this is the second profession that I started only about 15 years ago.
I am a specialty dealer, I would never want to have a B&M Storefront. I use to do the local shows, but no more. I am considering starting to do Long Beach.
For me and coins, it is all about the internet. That is where the coins are. That is where the knowledge is.
I do get many questions from the public about error coins and always answer their inquiries.
Unfortunately when crackouts and upgrade artists are mentioned, the thread does become about grading. Plus if grading was consistent, then we wouldn’t have all these people playing the game and maybe more would return their focus towards retail.
I am old. I have acquired my coins from a few dealers with whom I have developed a relationship over the years, and from some people to whom people I trust have recommended to me. I have also bought some auction coins.
Every coin I have purchased has been reviewed and 'blessed' by someone I trust who knows more than I do.
Market grading has eliminated the paper profits, and often created paper losses, on all except my MS 63 or better very old type coins. As a result, I stopped buying any post 1835 coins around 2013 or 2014.
The only use I have for a crack out person is to submit one of my coins for upgrade which I have been able to get upgraded myself, when I am ready to sell it. The problem with crack-out guys is that many of the upgrades I have seen are imo unattractive coins in a coffin, which I would never buy.
I like to think I know how to grade the material which interests me. Any dealer with who I interact should have eyes at least as good as mine in this material. Someone who wants to make a fast buck cracking out coins probably does not meet these specs, as what I am looking for is very much a small niche in numismatics.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
If the services remain tight, the amount of material that can be successfully cracked out will eventually go to zero, so the situation will "solve" itself.
I hear you you.
The successful young dealers who will make it big like you did will be the ones who develop and source numismatic retail relationships.
There will be plenty of milennials who want good service with a knowledgeable
young numismatist .
Relationships is everything in any business. The coin business is no different.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
This is, of course, a limited viewpoint based on your personal needs. There is little point in buying $5000 coins at a major auction and trying to sell them to specialty collectors for $7000. You are correct.
HOWEVER, if I buy a coin for $100 to $1000 at auction because I think it has value and then list it for $150 to $1100, I am providing a service to the casual collector. There are many people who don't peruse auctions constantly or who have limited means and can only buy when they are ready.
There are also people who don't like buying coins sight unseen, in which case buying at auction and putting it in your BM or taking it to a show also provides a service.
Some people won't bid at auction if the coin is unseen but will trust a dealer to buy it from them if they have passed judgment on it. [Consider them Junior JAs]
But, my biggest point here is that I don't think you've followed your own logic to its conclusion: no more dealers. If you expect dealers to be able to go out and get premium $5000 raw coins regularly so you can buy them...not a chance. Increasingly, everyone with premium material can get it into an auction from GC to Heritage to Stacks to eBay. Increasingly, a larger and larger percentage of good coins have made it into holders which makes them auction ready.
I would also suggest that every full-time dealer that is still in business knows better than any collector on this board how to build a business. They have found their niche and are exploiting it.
I have to kind of agree with this article. As a young collector myself, a lot of what I see from young dealers involves either a) cracking out the majority of their coins for potential upgrades, just on the chance that the coins might upgrade EVEN IF the coins don't deserve it, or b) selling toned coins, often possibly artificially toned coins, for extremely high prices when those coins would otherwise be worth basically melt value. I recently saw a vibrantly toned 1980?-S cent in NGC PR69UCAM sell for $900 on Instagram. Without the toning that's a $5 coin. I see minimal basic knowledge of how to grade coins or how to detect artificial toning in either young buyers or young sellers, creating an environment where people who only care about the number on the holder and the colors on the coin (AT or not) are able to make insane profits off of other people who also only care about the number on the holder and the colors on the coin (AT or not). In regards to cracking out and resubmitting, it has become essentially a lottery with certain people - they don't care whether the coin deserves the grade it currently has or not, they just know that if they crack and resubmit the same coin 20 or 10 or 5 times (or less with the inconsistency of grading I'm seeing all around, and the subjectivity of "eye appeal" that is now a heavy factor, if not the most important factor, in modern TPG standards) then there is a good chance that at least one of these times the grade will be a point or so higher. It's pretty frustrating to watch from the perspective of someone who does not like dealing with coins that have any grade other than the one they deserve, and who shuns any remotely potentially artificially toned coins as much as possible, to see people making literal thousands off of simply knowing and/or caring less about what they are dealing with.
The worrying thing is that there isn't really a way of dealing with it. If the buyers and seller don't care about these things, no one can really make them, and there's no realistic way that TPGs can combat crackouts. Even if computers scanned every coin that entered the grading room to see if it had been submitted before, it would be unable to detect coins that had been conserved, doctored, artificially toned, naturally toned, or submitted at another grading service. There are only two real ways I can see this going: either a) nothing happens and this just continues being the norm, or b) it backfires and people stop trusting holdered grades altogether and revert to judging values by eye alone, and learning the proper techniques to do so. Unfortunately the second option is not a plausible one and things will probably just continue as they are.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Correction: there is a third option, which is that eye appeal, especially eye appeal based on toning, is removed as a standard from the grading process, and left to the buyers and sellers to determine value. I emphasize "based on toning" for the reasons above as well as for the sad fact that it has become near impossible in certain situations, especially involving modern coins, to tell the difference between natural and artificial toning and we shouldn't be awarding artificially toned coins extra points. Grades will then be mainly based on technical condition which will limit "gradeflation", grading inconsistencies in general, and the ability of coins to be cracked and and resubmitted for higher grades.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
The entire coin market is wildly dysfunctional, largely because a) most "rare" coins aren't rare. b) the grading system doesn't work, c) most collectors and dealers buy and sell plastic, and know next to nothing about coins.
Laura is right to bemoan the current state of affairs, but things WILL change. The way we do things now doesn't work, and things will continue getting worse for the majority of players until they leave the market, or become willing to support a new paradigm.
It's going to be fun watching things shake out over the next decade or so.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
How much coin business is done on Instagram ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I started my biz with ZERO in 1978. I starved and hustled like all hell just to survive for the first five years. I don't want to hear the moans of the entrance fee-it is what you make of it and how hard you try. There are geezers out there who would gladly mentor the younger gen.
You make your own opportunities.
I know this is a bad example, even today, just about EVERY world class collector uses a personal dealer. They know enough of the game to know what will happen if they do not. The coin world is not a robotic world. Relationships still matter.
On the first point, I agree completely. Most of us started very young and with very little capital. There are no barriers to entry. Anyone who handles himself like a dealer - even a teenager - gets treated like a dealer. Everyone is welcome. It's a great business in that way.
The other point about "world class collectors" is only sort of true. Many of the truly great collectors I've known over the years did not have a "personal dealer". They did their own leg work, they knew their series as well as anybody else, and some even made a living - full time or part time - as dealers. (Examples: Bill Anton, Mike Dunigan and STEWARTBLAY.) Other great collectors used "personal dealers" but were completely capable of doing things without any help,. (Example: Harry Bass.) I guess my point is that there's a difference between being a great collector and building a great collection. And anyone can build a great collection if they've got the money and the assistance of a great dealer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy, and most of us will end out careers with very little capital!!!!
Sad to say, for some that is not really a joke. You be shocked to learn the people who always dealt day to day for cash flow.
What affects me and drives me much more towards the Internet, BST and major dealers away from shows is that I have no interest whatsoever in graded, under graded or over graded coins.
Laura is successful because others depend her ability to create interest in grading. It must give her a big chuckle.
I buy my coin’s for precious metal content and beauty. Someone else’s opinion of them, other than an occasional PCGS FS 70 in something I really like, means nothing to me.
Grading is so profoundly subjective and diverse that it still is nothing other than one person’s opinion. I have seen no solid standards that could be followed. Day to day or year to year.
I have witnessed the biggest disagreements on this forum around grading. From grading differences company to company, person to person, etc... And that in the end, for me, it is the beauty of loving a coin for it’s intrinsic & personal value.
That is where MY collection started as a youth and that is where it will end.