Aspire-R
What you posted makes sense. A lot of fragile innocent fawns out there. It’s a shame there is scum like that out there trying to burn our fellow members.
Well, a couple of hundred dollars isn't huge amounts of money for "tuition" at this school. It could be lots worse. That said, I'd definitely notify local postal service or law enforcement know about the fraud. As others have said, since you used a debit card, you'll likely not get your money back. However, if enough people report, it might rise to the level of raising an eyebrow or two... best of luck, and... PayPal is your friend!
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Truly sorry this happened, but the flags were there, in fact I was one of the first to flag him because it just stunk, he gave me a disagree for telling him his gold Indians were worth a heck of lot more than 50 bucks if genuine and responded back that I was killing any potential sales he would get, @jwitten straight out called them fakes and he responded back to him with legal action and @PerryHall called him out directly and more and more of his post and responses just stunk, guess your gonna have to find the time to correct this, there is plenty of good advice above, so find the time to use it.
JasonGaming....
Some more good advice....
DONT EVER use your debt card.
Instead use a credit card.
That way the next time someone gets into your money, IT'S not your money.....
The credit card company should make you whole again and has much more resources to go chasing crooks.
That’s too bad. Really sorry about this situation. I’m just happy it’s $200, vs $2,000. Still, very annoying that there is scum like this, lurking around.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
I'm assuming from the handle he is a younger collector although I could be wrong.
The point I would like to make is that we all make mistakes that cost.
(some claim they don't hehe)
Getting a hit like this early in a collecting career will probably pay dividends later on.
I just recently pulled out a box of modern silver (not ASEs) proof coins I bought on ebay, the bst and at shows over ten years ago.
Several of the coins now show unattractive spots, some from improper dip.
I'm not going to blame anyone but myself.
The lesson I took to heart several years ago was to avoid putting money into modern mint products.
Had I learned that lesson over ten years ago I could have saved hundreds and hundreds (at least - )
A piece now and again works for me o.k. but I'd never pursue a collection of modern products. It's like tossing money overboard.
You're still pretty new to the forums and I haven't seen you around much, so not sure what your interests are or how much time you are putting into learning the people and the "business" in this hobby.
That doesn't excuse someone ripping you off. That's not even a "well, I say it is THIS grade even if you don't think it is" type of thing.
I have been ripped here on the BST (overpaying....and, that was my bad as I'm an adult and I didn't do enough research and just jumped....and, I hate to return things unless it is, imho, really bad or badly represented).
In this case, and a few others, there were red flags from the subject line, the description, the pictures, the products, and the poster "himself".
I go into things slightly paranoid, but friendly. If I am interested, I'll make contact. If I don't like the feel of the contact, I will end it right there.
I have done paypal friends/family, but, if I don't know the person very well, or at all, I won't do that. I will ONLY do 1 of 2 things in a transaction like that: (1) Paypal with the fee and protection or (2) Put my own reputation on the line and ask for the item to be sent first and then I will pay. I offer many different forum/dealer references, if wanted. I'm happy to give them. From $30 purchase to $5000+ purchase. I also have forum members that I have met in person, locally and at national shows, and offer them as references.
I have found the above does help. Some members, even long time members dealing with other long time members, both sets of the utmost honor, still insist on the money before sending the items. That's their right. Again, either paypal with fee and protection, or take the chance.
As for venmo and all the other little payment apps.....I stay the hell away from them...I run like the dickens. They are dangerous. Seriously. You better ONLY use it for money between TRUSTED friends/family. Stories have gone on about small typos/wrong accounts being sent the money and the companies saying there is NO WAY to get that money back unless the recipient wants to send it back.
Back to your CURRENT issue.....
Check the back of your card for a phone number. I don't use my debit card and don't have it with me right now, but on my credit card, there is a small number, on the back, for calling for support/questions. Start there.
What you will likely find out is that you have almost ZERO protection, in this kind of incident, using a debit card. It's like using a check/cash. You get protection, with a debit card, similar to a credit card, when it is lost/stolen and used. Usually, if quickly reported (something like 24-48hrs after the issue is known), they limit your exposure to $50 for most of them...but even that, they usually don't keep from you....IF YOU IMMEDIATELY REPORT IT.
You are talking about waiting. That's a strike AGAINST YOU in their eyes. You can give them any excuse you want, but they have support outside of normal business hours for contact...if you choose not to use it, and you are not out of the country, fighting a war, with no way to communicate, it is your bad. That's the facts for dealing with them.
Now, you can (A) contact the issuing bank (BofA) and see if they can help. Most likely can't. (B) Talk to the post office (postal inspector). This is likely one of the best bets. (C) File a police report. I'd do this anyway but expect almost zero help. Call the local police department for the crook, if you have the mailing address correct. There may be others.
For BofA, I found the following on their website by logging in and looking for 10 seconds....
Consumer Support
1.800.933.6262
Monday - Friday
8 a.m. - 11 p.m. ET
Saturday - Sunday
8 a.m. - 8 p.m. ET
Not sure how old you are, or what experiences you have, but finding their number online, if I was able to post on a forum for help, would have been THE FIRST THING I did...not asking the forum for help.....
I'm going to guess a few things...you are relatively young. A millennial. The couple of hundred dollars is a pretty good hit on you...probably tight and not pure "discretionary" funds....deal was "too good to pass up"...maybe flip or maybe just feel great about the buy. Your financial transactions haven't been with humans much. BofA not great, most of the time, when it comes to working with them face to face, but it can help.
So, contact BoA (call immediately, go in if you can...get it on record). Call the cops (yours/his). Go to the post office and ask for the postal inspector and say you want to discuss mail fraud.
After reading this thread, and it's not the first time some one was defrauded on the bst. The following comments are appropriate: "If it's to good to be true it probably is."
Caveat Emptor ... "let the buyer beware," making the buyer responsible for due diligence before making a purchase.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@Timbuk3 said:
I understand your plight, I've been 'burned' on the forum a couple times before !!!
This is not good. For anyone.
I am beginning to think that perhaps the moderators should place restrictions on new members posting in the BST or attempting to sell items here. Until sufficient evidence of real participation.
Roccout
Buying off BST is, in my humble opinion, the same as answering a Craigslist ad. Eventually, you might have confidence in the person you're dealing with either from personal experience or shared experience. But until that, it's just a leap of faith. And it's not just scams, you've got possible problem coins, unidentified fakes, etc.
Personally, if I were PCGS there would be no BST. It's just asking for trouble. All you need is one person scammed large enough and mad enough and claiming that PCGS failed to screen properly and they will spend more on legal fees than BST is worth in goodwill.
@BJandTundra said:
A lot of good advice on this and other threads. Why won't we heed it?
Because everyone wants the Big Score. They want to get lucky. They want to be the smartest person in the room. So when they score a deal on a coin, they get bragging rights.
@Timbuk3 said:
I understand your plight, I've been 'burned' on the forum a couple times before !!!
This is not good. For anyone.
I am beginning to think that perhaps the moderators should place restrictions on new members posting in the BST or attempting to sell items here. Until sufficient evidence of real participation.
Roccout
Buying off BST is, in my humble opinion, the same as answering a Craigslist ad. Eventually, you might have confidence in the person you're dealing with either from personal experience or shared experience.
Personally, if I were PCGS there would be no BST. It's just asking for trouble. All you need is one person scammed large enough and mad enough and claiming that PCGS failed to screen properly and they will spend more on legal fees than BST is worth in goodwill.
+1
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Sorry to hear this.... I have always had good experiences on the BST.... though I have seen here, some bad one's...Not a lot. So yes, check references, ask other members... Cheers, RickO
There are lots of ways of vetting someone selling on the BST forum.
How long have they been a member here?
Do they post and participate regularly?
Can they provide references of successful transactions with other current members?
Google search their ID to see if they show up on other coin boards (lots of members belong to other boards and use the same user ID)?
If the seller asks for payment in any manner other then paypal or a credit card then I'd pass.
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
For anyone wondering, @jclovescoins is out of town and will not be receiving his package until he gets back on Saturday. He will provide his story then.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
@BJandTundra said:
A lot of good advice on this and other threads. Why won't we heed it?
Because everyone wants the Big Score. They want to get lucky. They want to be the smartest person in the room. So when they score a deal on a coin, they get bragging rights.
"Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got."
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Is doing a "charge back" an option on a debit card? Mine is linked to Visa, and it's an option for me... but I'm with credit union where I work... just a thought
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@lkenefic said:
Is doing a "charge back" an option on a debit card? Mine is linked to Visa, and it's an option for me... but I'm with credit union where I work... just a thought
Yes it is. It's more difficult than a CREDIT card but it CAN be done.
I just did one on a scam appliance repair dump.
I actually had to jump in my car and CHASE the jerk to get a receipt for the wrong part he picked up.
However, only my having his scrawl on a hasty amateur receipt I made was what got them to reverse it.
You gotta have SOLID ....proof... of the fraud.
Another technique that I use is right click on the sellers image and select copy image. I then paste that image into a site named tineye.com which will search the web for any instances of the image that tineye has cataloged. You'll be surprised how many place a particular image has appeared on the web.
I pasted one of the coins that loris88 had for sale and it showed up in 5 different places on the web. Just another tool in your tool bag.
@jafo50 said:
Another technique that I use is right click on the sellers image and select copy image. I then paste that image into a site named tineye.com which will search the web for any instances of the image that tineye has cataloged. You'll be surprised how many place a particular image has appeared on the web.
I pasted one of the coins that loris88 had for sale and it showed up in 5 different places on the web. Just another tool in your tool bag.
@Namvet69 said:
Do not use a debit card to pay for anything especially with a stranger. No I take that back, do not use a debit card, period. Peace Roy
Agree.....use a cc that gives you cash back for purchases.....
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I would suggest changing your debit card if the numbers had been provided. Do yourself a favor and go to "Jimmy the check cashier" and buy a burn card. Load it up with what your willing to gamble, and use that in the future.
Sadly this is occurred many times over the years with various members. Even more sad is all the warning signs were there and regardless of any enforcement or measures that the host puts in place people will still circumvent them and find a way to pay with cash, from amazingly questionable sources, then come here looking for restitution.
I see the financially gullible as a necessary part of others being able to benefit from their poor judgment.
And in the end, with all the advice given on this very long thread, someone will fall prey again and participate thinking they’re clever and getting a deal better than all others.
But only if they act quickly and pay with cash!
@Kkathyl said:
I would suggest changing your debit card if the numbers had been provided. Do yourself a favor and go to "Jimmy the check cashier" and buy a burn card. Load it up with what your willing to gamble, and use that in the future.
Sorry to hear this happened. Take it as a lesson.
Zelle handles the transfer, no debit card info is given out.
I would NOT use a burner card. It's same as cash.
A credit card through PayPal prevents the buyer from seeing your CC info, provides cashback (depending on card) and gives you both CC chargeback and/or PayPal chargeback capability. If the seller doesn't want to eat the 3%, tell him where to go OR offer to pay the 3% if you want it badly enough.
@MilesWaits said:
Sadly this is occurred many times over the years with various members. Even more sad is all the warning signs were there and regardless of any enforcement or measures that the host puts in place people will still circumvent them and find a way to pay with cash, from amazingly questionable sources, then come here looking for restitution.
I see the financially gullible as a necessary part of others being able to benefit from their poor judgment.
And in the end, with all the advice given on this very long thread, someone will fall prey again and participate thinking they’re clever and getting a deal better than all others.
But only if they act quickly and pay with cash!
+1
Ran into a guy locally. He ONLY buys gold bullion from private sellers. He answers Craigslist ads and classified ads. He claims he had never been burned UNTIL he showed up at a friend's coin shop with a horribly underweight American Gold Eagle (fake). $1300 mistake which, even if it was the only time he got caught, more than makes up for the $50 to $75 per ounce he saved by not using a bullion dealer. [And Lord knows how many other better fakes he still has!]
People would never invest in stocks with people they meet in parking lots or Starbuck's. But wave a coin deal under someone's nose and they show up in a dark alley with a sock full of cash. SMH.
Voice of experience here:
Me and some others got taken by "bigzestee" (Hi, buddy! Your time is coming. )
I sent checks. Drawn on my BoA account. I went to local PO and they were pretty helpful, we were able to nail down some good info. Contacted my local LE and the LE in the places he played in. No interest there.
Went to my local BoA branch and spoke to a teller there, They were able to find more pieces and suggested I call the fraud department.
Long story short, I got every penny back that I wrote a check for.
It cannot hurt to call the fraud dept at whatever financial institution the funds were drafted out of.
ouch, I think many of us warned/thought it was fishy this person. I have been ripped off once on here OP. I used a money order, this was after countless wonderful deals on the forums for many years. Honestly now, I stick with members I know or have heard of or have been here a long time. If its a member I don't know or have never heard of or they are new, they are gonna have to send first.
Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
@Timbuk3 said:
I understand your plight, I've been 'burned' on the forum a couple times before !!!
This is not good. For anyone.
I am beginning to think that perhaps the moderators should place restrictions on new members posting in the BST or attempting to sell items here. Until sufficient evidence of real participation.
Even a scammer can first build a high post count.
Anyone buying on BST should use protective payment methods such as PP. Less protective payment methods should only be used after the seller has first proven himself trustworthy to the buyer.
I mean, the photos were all ripped from the internet, proclaimed he thought they were "copper coins," and people bought that story thinking they could swing a "great deal."
In addition to the OBVIOUS scam, forum members stepped up to warn others, and you guys STILL went ahead and sent the idiot thief money via a no recourse method?
I have to say it's hard to feel sorry in this case.
I received a package with the same letter sealed in a dirty dollar-store-like envelope inside the Fedex package. It is obvious Loris committed this fraud with full intent.
I am disappointed to see so many forum members disparaging the members that bought from Loris. I cannot speak for the other member that was deceived, but I will tell you that when I had sent payment to him it was NOT as obvious as people are saying. When I sent him $100 plus $8 shipping, it was with the intention to pay him 10% below melt value upon receipt if it turned out that the coins were authentic. He did not believe the $5 gold piece was authentic, but the $2.50 Indian looked authentic to me. I was simply looking to help the guy out. He spoke well via email to me. I sent him $108 via Venmo and paid by credit card so I would at least have credit card protection.
Fast forward 2 hours and he had posted several crazy lots on the forum with numerous stolen pictures, gained additional knowledge of gold coins, and failed to ship the coins and provide a tracking number during the requested time window. His spelling, grammar and diction also went from being professional to uneducated. It was obvious AT THAT POINT that I would not be receiving the coins and that Loris was engaging in fraud. However, you have to wait until you open the package to be 100% sure. He also mailed our packages via Fedex so a claim with USPS would not work. I explained to him that USPS would be cheaper, and he said he would mail USPS but did not. I assume this is to avoid mail fraud charges and claims with the postal inspector.
For me personally, $108 is not worth the time and energy to pursue him legally, but I am confident I will recover the funds via the credit card company. I am also confident that if I decided to pursue him legally, I would be successful.
@jclovescoins said:
I received a package with the same letter sealed in a dirty dollar-store-like envelope inside the Fedex package. It is obvious Loris committed this fraud with full intent.
I am disappointed to see so many forum members disparaging the members that bought from Loris. I cannot speak for the other member that was deceived, but I will tell you that when I had sent payment to him it was NOT as obvious as people are saying. When I sent him $100 plus $8 shipping, it was with the intention to pay him 10% below melt value upon receipt if it turned out that the coins were authentic. He did not believe the $5 gold piece was authentic, but the $2.50 Indian looked authentic to me. I was simply looking to help the guy out. He spoke well via email to me. I sent him $108 via Venmo and paid by credit card so I would at least have credit card protection.
Fast forward 2 hours and he had posted several crazy lots on the forum with numerous stolen pictures, gained additional knowledge of gold coins, and failed to ship the coins and provide a tracking number during the requested time window. His spelling, grammar and diction also went from being professional to uneducated. It was obvious AT THAT POINT that I would not be receiving the coins and that Loris was engaging in fraud. However, you have to wait until you open the package to be 100% sure. He also mailed our packages via Fedex so a claim with USPS would not work. I explained to him that USPS would be cheaper, and he said he would mail USPS but did not. I assume this is to avoid mail fraud charges and claims with the postal inspector.
For me personally, $108 is not worth the time and energy to pursue him legally, but I am confident I will recover the funds via the credit card company. I am also confident that if I decided to pursue him legally, I would be successful.
As "disparaging" goes on this forum, your treatment has been pretty mild.
You know what they call a coin dealer who buys gold 10% below melt...a thief.
You took the right steps to protect yourself. But, you should also be able to see why some people are suggesting that your greed got in the way of good judgment.
Comments
Aspire-R
What you posted makes sense. A lot of fragile innocent fawns out there. It’s a shame there is scum like that out there trying to burn our fellow members.
Well, a couple of hundred dollars isn't huge amounts of money for "tuition" at this school. It could be lots worse. That said, I'd definitely notify local postal service or law enforcement know about the fraud. As others have said, since you used a debit card, you'll likely not get your money back. However, if enough people report, it might rise to the level of raising an eyebrow or two... best of luck, and... PayPal is your friend!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
In the grand scheme of things, PayPal's 3% is cheap.
Truly sorry this happened, but the flags were there, in fact I was one of the first to flag him because it just stunk, he gave me a disagree for telling him his gold Indians were worth a heck of lot more than 50 bucks if genuine and responded back that I was killing any potential sales he would get, @jwitten straight out called them fakes and he responded back to him with legal action and @PerryHall called him out directly and more and more of his post and responses just stunk, guess your gonna have to find the time to correct this, there is plenty of good advice above, so find the time to use it.
Steve
Let's see what can add that maybe be helpful in the future.....
JasonGaming....
Some more good advice....
DONT EVER use your debt card.
Instead use a credit card.
That way the next time someone gets into your money, IT'S not your money.....
The credit card company should make you whole again and has much more resources to go chasing crooks.
That’s too bad. Really sorry about this situation. I’m just happy it’s $200, vs $2,000. Still, very annoying that there is scum like this, lurking around.
Dave
A lot of good advice on this and other threads. Why won't we heed it?
@Dave99B agreed. Loris even offered more coins for another $600 but I knew when to stop, at least.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
@rte592 I will always keep it in mind, thank you.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
Sorry @JasonGaming had a rough go on the BST.
I'm assuming from the handle he is a younger collector although I could be wrong.
The point I would like to make is that we all make mistakes that cost.
(some claim they don't hehe)
Getting a hit like this early in a collecting career will probably pay dividends later on.
I just recently pulled out a box of modern silver (not ASEs) proof coins I bought on ebay, the bst and at shows over ten years ago.
Several of the coins now show unattractive spots, some from improper dip.
I'm not going to blame anyone but myself.
The lesson I took to heart several years ago was to avoid putting money into modern mint products.
Had I learned that lesson over ten years ago I could have saved hundreds and hundreds (at least -
)
A piece now and again works for me o.k. but I'd never pursue a collection of modern products. It's like tossing money overboard.
Hope I'm not too OT.
Try NOT to use your Debit card next time ....... way too much risk straight out of your account.
Paypal maybe a better shield
I am sorry for your experience and lost ....... a lesson learnt and it could've been worst too
It sucks man. I feel for you.
You're still pretty new to the forums and I haven't seen you around much, so not sure what your interests are or how much time you are putting into learning the people and the "business" in this hobby.
That doesn't excuse someone ripping you off. That's not even a "well, I say it is THIS grade even if you don't think it is" type of thing.
I have been ripped here on the BST (overpaying....and, that was my bad as I'm an adult and I didn't do enough research and just jumped....and, I hate to return things unless it is, imho, really bad or badly represented).
In this case, and a few others, there were red flags from the subject line, the description, the pictures, the products, and the poster "himself".
I go into things slightly paranoid, but friendly. If I am interested, I'll make contact. If I don't like the feel of the contact, I will end it right there.
I have done paypal friends/family, but, if I don't know the person very well, or at all, I won't do that. I will ONLY do 1 of 2 things in a transaction like that: (1) Paypal with the fee and protection or (2) Put my own reputation on the line and ask for the item to be sent first and then I will pay. I offer many different forum/dealer references, if wanted. I'm happy to give them. From $30 purchase to $5000+ purchase. I also have forum members that I have met in person, locally and at national shows, and offer them as references.
I have found the above does help. Some members, even long time members dealing with other long time members, both sets of the utmost honor, still insist on the money before sending the items. That's their right. Again, either paypal with fee and protection, or take the chance.
As for venmo and all the other little payment apps.....I stay the hell away from them...I run like the dickens. They are dangerous. Seriously. You better ONLY use it for money between TRUSTED friends/family. Stories have gone on about small typos/wrong accounts being sent the money and the companies saying there is NO WAY to get that money back unless the recipient wants to send it back.
Back to your CURRENT issue.....
Check the back of your card for a phone number. I don't use my debit card and don't have it with me right now, but on my credit card, there is a small number, on the back, for calling for support/questions. Start there.
What you will likely find out is that you have almost ZERO protection, in this kind of incident, using a debit card. It's like using a check/cash. You get protection, with a debit card, similar to a credit card, when it is lost/stolen and used. Usually, if quickly reported (something like 24-48hrs after the issue is known), they limit your exposure to $50 for most of them...but even that, they usually don't keep from you....IF YOU IMMEDIATELY REPORT IT.
You are talking about waiting. That's a strike AGAINST YOU in their eyes. You can give them any excuse you want, but they have support outside of normal business hours for contact...if you choose not to use it, and you are not out of the country, fighting a war, with no way to communicate, it is your bad. That's the facts for dealing with them.
Now, you can (A) contact the issuing bank (BofA) and see if they can help. Most likely can't. (B) Talk to the post office (postal inspector). This is likely one of the best bets. (C) File a police report. I'd do this anyway but expect almost zero help. Call the local police department for the crook, if you have the mailing address correct. There may be others.
For BofA, I found the following on their website by logging in and looking for 10 seconds....
Consumer Support
1.800.933.6262
Monday - Friday
8 a.m. - 11 p.m. ET
Saturday - Sunday
8 a.m. - 8 p.m. ET
Not sure how old you are, or what experiences you have, but finding their number online, if I was able to post on a forum for help, would have been THE FIRST THING I did...not asking the forum for help.....
I'm going to guess a few things...you are relatively young. A millennial. The couple of hundred dollars is a pretty good hit on you...probably tight and not pure "discretionary" funds....deal was "too good to pass up"...maybe flip or maybe just feel great about the buy. Your financial transactions haven't been with humans much. BofA not great, most of the time, when it comes to working with them face to face, but it can help.
So, contact BoA (call immediately, go in if you can...get it on record). Call the cops (yours/his). Go to the post office and ask for the postal inspector and say you want to discuss mail fraud.
Don't sit on it. GET ON IT
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I'm sure BOA has online banking. Sign up for this and you can get the ball rolling on the charge back process.
After reading this thread, and it's not the first time some one was defrauded on the bst. The following comments are appropriate: "If it's to good to be true it probably is."
Caveat Emptor ... "let the buyer beware," making the buyer responsible for due diligence before making a purchase.
Buying off BST is, in my humble opinion, the same as answering a Craigslist ad. Eventually, you might have confidence in the person you're dealing with either from personal experience or shared experience. But until that, it's just a leap of faith. And it's not just scams, you've got possible problem coins, unidentified fakes, etc.
Personally, if I were PCGS there would be no BST. It's just asking for trouble. All you need is one person scammed large enough and mad enough and claiming that PCGS failed to screen properly and they will spend more on legal fees than BST is worth in goodwill.
Because everyone wants the Big Score. They want to get lucky. They want to be the smartest person in the room. So when they score a deal on a coin, they get bragging rights.
+1
Sorry to hear this.... I have always had good experiences on the BST.... though I have seen here, some bad one's...Not a lot. So yes, check references, ask other members... Cheers, RickO
Excellent post Aspie_Rocco .
There are lots of ways of vetting someone selling on the BST forum.
How long have they been a member here?
Do they post and participate regularly?
Can they provide references of successful transactions with other current members?
Google search their ID to see if they show up on other coin boards (lots of members belong to other boards and use the same user ID)?
If the seller asks for payment in any manner other then paypal or a credit card then I'd pass.
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
@jafo50 I know I avoided many red flags, I have to heed to them next time.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
@Bochiman thank you for the descriptive answer, I’ll get on it.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
For anyone wondering, @jclovescoins is out of town and will not be receiving his package until he gets back on Saturday. He will provide his story then.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
"Sometimes you get, and sometimes you get got."
Is doing a "charge back" an option on a debit card? Mine is linked to Visa, and it's an option for me... but I'm with credit union where I work... just a thought
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Yes it is. It's more difficult than a CREDIT card but it CAN be done.
I just did one on a scam appliance repair dump.
I actually had to jump in my car and CHASE the jerk to get a receipt for the wrong part he picked up.
However, only my having his scrawl on a hasty amateur receipt I made was what got them to reverse it.
You gotta have SOLID ....proof... of the fraud.
It's too bad we don't have foresight.
It would have been cool to "play" dumb and offer some swell TRADE for his junk.
IF he bit, someone might have gotten an...address.
Here you go:
Loris M Ader
Age 30s
( ) -
View mobile info
CURRENT ADDRESS
Xxxxxxx
NJ 08628
Google/Safari his name & the addy will show up.
Another technique that I use is right click on the sellers image and select copy image. I then paste that image into a site named tineye.com which will search the web for any instances of the image that tineye has cataloged. You'll be surprised how many place a particular image has appeared on the web.
I pasted one of the coins that loris88 had for sale and it showed up in 5 different places on the web. Just another tool in your tool bag.
https://tineye.com/search/show_all/869b589bcc154d17e287e015191ce8fde9c1bda8/5f916a103d2a745713fa16d7990b4afcfac44497f425c45321038513a7eb9501/www.ebay.com/1
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
I'm sorry to read this. I will only deal with established members on here, I've read enough to take that position at this point.
My YouTube Channel
@topstuf I do have his possible number and return address from the package...
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
Thanks for the advice and link. I didn't realize you could do that.
Do not use a debit card to pay for anything especially with a stranger. No I take that back, do not use a debit card, period. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall
Agree.....use a cc that gives you cash back for purchases.....
The listings had Red Flags all over them!
+1 ... more red flags than could be counted ... I have been very successful in BST to date through established members ... not brand new flybys.
Top 10 Cal Fractional Type Set
successful BST with Ankurj, BigAl, Bullsitter, CommemKing, DCW(7), Elmerfusterpuck, Joelewis, Mach1ne, Minuteman810430, Modcrewman, Nankraut, Nederveit2, Philographer(5), Realgator, Silverpop, SurfinxHI, TomB and Yorkshireman(3)
I would suggest changing your debit card if the numbers had been provided. Do yourself a favor and go to "Jimmy the check cashier" and buy a burn card. Load it up with what your willing to gamble, and use that in the future.
Sorry to hear this happened. Take it as a lesson.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Sadly this is occurred many times over the years with various members. Even more sad is all the warning signs were there and regardless of any enforcement or measures that the host puts in place people will still circumvent them and find a way to pay with cash, from amazingly questionable sources, then come here looking for restitution.
I see the financially gullible as a necessary part of others being able to benefit from their poor judgment.
And in the end, with all the advice given on this very long thread, someone will fall prey again and participate thinking they’re clever and getting a deal better than all others.
But only if they act quickly and pay with cash!
Zelle handles the transfer, no debit card info is given out.
I would NOT use a burner card. It's same as cash.
A credit card through PayPal prevents the buyer from seeing your CC info, provides cashback (depending on card) and gives you both CC chargeback and/or PayPal chargeback capability. If the seller doesn't want to eat the 3%, tell him where to go OR offer to pay the 3% if you want it badly enough.
+1
Ran into a guy locally. He ONLY buys gold bullion from private sellers. He answers Craigslist ads and classified ads. He claims he had never been burned UNTIL he showed up at a friend's coin shop with a horribly underweight American Gold Eagle (fake). $1300 mistake which, even if it was the only time he got caught, more than makes up for the $50 to $75 per ounce he saved by not using a bullion dealer. [And Lord knows how many other better fakes he still has!]
People would never invest in stocks with people they meet in parking lots or Starbuck's. But wave a coin deal under someone's nose and they show up in a dark alley with a sock full of cash. SMH.
Voice of experience here:
)
Me and some others got taken by "bigzestee" (Hi, buddy! Your time is coming.
I sent checks. Drawn on my BoA account. I went to local PO and they were pretty helpful, we were able to nail down some good info. Contacted my local LE and the LE in the places he played in. No interest there.
Went to my local BoA branch and spoke to a teller there, They were able to find more pieces and suggested I call the fraud department.
Long story short, I got every penny back that I wrote a check for.
It cannot hurt to call the fraud dept at whatever financial institution the funds were drafted out of.
Good luck.
Oh WOW we didn't see THAT coming. Like seriously, people? (Insert your favorite roll your eyes emoji here.)
Discouraging. Not only does the buyer take it in the teeth, but honest sellers find fewer buyers willing to take a chance.
ouch, I think many of us warned/thought it was fishy this person. I have been ripped off once on here OP. I used a money order, this was after countless wonderful deals on the forums for many years. Honestly now, I stick with members I know or have heard of or have been here a long time. If its a member I don't know or have never heard of or they are new, they are gonna have to send first.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Even a scammer can first build a high post count.
Anyone buying on BST should use protective payment methods such as PP. Less protective payment methods should only be used after the seller has first proven himself trustworthy to the buyer.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I mean, the photos were all ripped from the internet, proclaimed he thought they were "copper coins," and people bought that story thinking they could swing a "great deal."
In addition to the OBVIOUS scam, forum members stepped up to warn others, and you guys STILL went ahead and sent the idiot thief money via a no recourse method?
I have to say it's hard to feel sorry in this case.
I received a package with the same letter sealed in a dirty dollar-store-like envelope inside the Fedex package. It is obvious Loris committed this fraud with full intent.
I am disappointed to see so many forum members disparaging the members that bought from Loris. I cannot speak for the other member that was deceived, but I will tell you that when I had sent payment to him it was NOT as obvious as people are saying. When I sent him $100 plus $8 shipping, it was with the intention to pay him 10% below melt value upon receipt if it turned out that the coins were authentic. He did not believe the $5 gold piece was authentic, but the $2.50 Indian looked authentic to me. I was simply looking to help the guy out. He spoke well via email to me. I sent him $108 via Venmo and paid by credit card so I would at least have credit card protection.
Fast forward 2 hours and he had posted several crazy lots on the forum with numerous stolen pictures, gained additional knowledge of gold coins, and failed to ship the coins and provide a tracking number during the requested time window. His spelling, grammar and diction also went from being professional to uneducated. It was obvious AT THAT POINT that I would not be receiving the coins and that Loris was engaging in fraud. However, you have to wait until you open the package to be 100% sure. He also mailed our packages via Fedex so a claim with USPS would not work. I explained to him that USPS would be cheaper, and he said he would mail USPS but did not. I assume this is to avoid mail fraud charges and claims with the postal inspector.
For me personally, $108 is not worth the time and energy to pursue him legally, but I am confident I will recover the funds via the credit card company. I am also confident that if I decided to pursue him legally, I would be successful.
As "disparaging" goes on this forum, your treatment has been pretty mild.
You know what they call a coin dealer who buys gold 10% below melt...a thief.
You took the right steps to protect yourself. But, you should also be able to see why some people are suggesting that your greed got in the way of good judgment.