Member of Forums and I got scammed, what do we do now?
Backstory: hindsight is 20/20. Loris88 (full name Loris M Ader) from the BST site got us. I was dumb enough to take the obvious bait. I payed a few hundred, while @jclovescoins paid one or two hundred. I paid with Venmo and Zelle through a Visa/Bank of America DEBIT card. I can provide any other correspondence/phone number/return address of Loris if anyone would like. Some posts by the scammer: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006994/brother-is-taking-offers-on-his-lot#latest https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1007051/reverse-image-search-these-pics#latest https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006922/selling-some-old-coins#latest
I came home and received Loris’s package with this inside it (nothing else of course).
It’s obviously a fake, including a misspelling near the bottom and it doesn’t even describe the items being seized (unless someone can prove it’s real.) JC bought the exact SAME coins and is awaiting his package. Loris’s Venmo: Loris-Ader-1
and his Zelle: paulwader8688@gmail.com.
This guy even has CONVICTION RECORDS!
First of all, I’m not sure how to get a refund. I doubt Zelle or Venmo will help, so BoA or Visa is my only choice. I do not have enough time to call, so email/chat is my only option. I’m not sure where to find that information, so assistance would be helpful. Second, how do I file this report with a government group, if there is any? I have lots of information of Louis (address, phone number, zelle and Venmo). Any amount of assistance is helpful, thank you.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
Comments
Unfortunately, you can probably say good-bye to your money. The amount is too small to generate much interest from authorities.
I am really sorry to hear this. I think of these forums as a safer place than the internet in general to conduct trades, but a healthy dose of caution is still always in order! I would advise always ask for (and check) references before doing a deal with someone who is new to you.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
Sorry to hear this.
It's my biggest fear buying online.
I think the only recourse you have is charge back on the CC.
Hopefully mail fraud will be added to the list of convictions soon.
Collector, occasional seller
Lot of members had warned the lurkers about this trade. They tried to help but..
Can I say “another one” or two “bites the dust”
I thought that name was familiar. Loris88 is already banned on the forum, 29 posts, a member for 6 weeks, and generated a high negative points count (back when we had the negatives for disagrees and flags). I vaguely recall questionable posts by him on the coin forum.
I know nothing of these payment methods you used. I assume it is like cash, but who knows. PayPal is "old school" these days, I guess, but it provides some layer of protection.
This is the same person who was trying to sell a family heirloom signed photo of Babe Ruth over on the autographs forum. He on the one hand seemed to know nothing about it other than he was sure it was real, but he also suggested that there were some discrepancies to known authentic Ruth signatures. Apparently someone bought it.
That first post of his offering two "copper" coins that were clearly gold coins (or fakes) for $50 was pretty bad, Classic scam where he pretends to not know what he has and hopes someone jumps on it thinking they are making a big score.
My PC won't load the photo of whatever paper was in the package, but the weight at shipping will show it was empty. If he forged some official document or signatures then maybe you can get him on forgery, impersonating law enforcement, etc.
Folks there ain’t no bargains on the bst.
This saddens my heart. I hope the wronged parties are made whole.
And for the fraudulently issued false "Seizure Notice".
@BG I’m not sure how to do that because I don’t have the time to call my bank. I can’t seem to find an email or chat number for Bank of America.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
2.9% Paypal fee is your friend, unless you have done at least a few successful transactions with a seller...and around here that is not always a guarantee.
@jwitten had posted multiple warnings in each thread that this was likely a scam. Looks like he has been banned now for some reason.
I am not trying to pile on since you have already been roughed up by this Loirs88 character, but many large financial institutions (credit cards for sure - not sure about BOA) have 24 hour customer service. If you don't have the time to follow up then I guess you will have to swallow the loss and move on....
Im no lawyer but this seems like a gross violation of impersonating a federal officer/agency (if it is truly bogus, which seems highly likely) and as such federal LEO/DA's would probably love to investigate nomatter the dollar figure involved I would think. Pursue the hell out if this. As for getting your money back, call the number on the back of the debit card you used to send the funds through and claim it as fraud. The money should be back in your bank account within 48hrs or so then they investigate and render a decision afterward either letting it stand if they deem it fraud or claw back the money if they found it was not fraudulent. Forget about venmo/zelle helping
IMO, a victim of transactional fraud should file a police report with their District Attorney's office, white collar crime unit. If you can provide them with all the info and probable cause is established, a criminal complaint can be issued for this offender. If he does not show up, then a warrant of arrest shall be issued. Dollar amount threshold determines felony or misdemeanor. Arrest warrant goes into NCIC and it will catch up to him somewhere. Be sure to provide all web based contacts, how you identified him and any aliases, screen names, etc. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52
I don't know what about that member's postings gave anyone confidence he was legit.
I suspect the duped forumites will come away from this episode with a more serviceable bullshit meter.
Hopefully @jclovescoins will chime in w/his version of the deal.
It appears you used a debit card, which if I recall correctly leaves you with significantly less protection than other methods of payment. I don't want to rub salt in the wound so I will only state that I think your money is long gone and you will not be getting it back. I hope I am wrong.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
As much as members here would like to help, but how would one who refused to listen and had the excuse of not having the time to contact the banks nor authorities able to resolve this issue? Served on a silver ˈplatter?
I apologize for the harsh words. But after recent banned of our sincere members/ friends, I would just poke any potential troll then keep my mouth shut.
I’ll try to find BoA’s chatting system (if they have any), if not I will try to find some time to call on Saturday. Thanks for the help, everyone!
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
You need to contact your Attorney General and your Postal Inspector as this is mail fraud.
It is 100% Mail Fraud. The idiots who sent it even got the Newark, NJ Zip Code wrong.
Pete
Save the mailing envelope, proof of mail fraud. As for taking the bait, greed will get you every time. Good luck on recovery.
@AmazingIntellect agreed. Thank you.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
Which one of you thought you were buying $20 gold and more gold for a couple hundred bucks?
It should have read, "Brother is taking offers on his lot, and please try and screw me so that I can screw you worse."
@Wabbit2313 actually, I did not buy that group of coins. It was different ones he showed me.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
@Broadstruck @BuffaloIronTail how should I go about filing the mail fraud to the postal inspector and attorney general? Any links to help me get started?
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
I would first vailidate the Notice of Seizure and Intent to Forfeiture is legitimate. If not I would think Mr. Ader would face a much larger penalty than your refund. JMO
jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
The irony is the perp is long gone & is repeating this scam over & over again.
He like other perps will continue to take advantage of the gullible & steal $$ for minimal work.
Heck it’s like robbing a bank w/out a gun or a hand written note.
LE will not touch this nor give you the time of day over this.
Take it to a Post Office and show it to a Supervisor. Tell Him/Her the story. Fill out the Stolen/Rifling Mail report. It should go up the ladder to The Postal Inspection Service.
I'm retired (USPS 2006) and don't know any more about how they do things now.
Pete
You can call both as even if you need to leave a voicemail they will call you back.
As mentioned save all the packaging.
As this isn't just a breach of contract and mail fraud you do have consumer protection.
Your Attorney General has a bureau for consumer protection.
Your local Postal Inspector can also help as USPS does not take mail fraud lightly.
I'm not sure if you'll get your funds back but both mentioned above can put a world of legal hurt on the scammer that far outweighs your loss.
This is not true. I've sold precious metals far below melt many times. Doesn't last long but sure would be considered a bargain.
bob
This incident is so "messed-up". I hope the buyers are made whole again !!!
Alarms were raised. The allure of getting a good deal clouded your better judgement. Learn from this. It's going to be tough to recover money charged on a debit card. Good luck to you.
Anyone who asks you to pay any way other than PayPal credit card or the equivalent should always be suspect. I actually insist that people PAY ME using credit cards, even if they offer other methods, so I have to pay 3% because that gives us both a sense of confidence in the transaction.
I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing the experience. It may well help someone else avoid a similar fate.
Your bank should be able to help you with authorities. Zelle is essentially a wire transfer. I've used it, but I've never read the fraud guarantees if there are any. You need to talk to your payment processor.
There are no fraud guarantees with Zelle. If memory serves me right, they explicitly released a statement a while back saying to only use Zelle with friends and never to pay for a product with it, especially not first. Because people are using it to scam. @jmlanzaf
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Yes, that's the only way I've used it - family and friends. I have always figured it was "same as cash". That's why I insist on PayPal CC payments - both incoming and outgoing.
Thanks!
First sorry you got scammed. So Loris88 was quickly Identified as a Possible Fraud and Scammer over on BST. You were unfortunately taken. To add insult to injury you paid with a Debit Card. I don’t own one and never plan too but I believe you have almost no recourse through a Debit Card. Had you use a credit card you would be protected. Had you used Pay Pal and NOT Friends and family you would of been Protected. Again sorry you lost money be glad it was not a Thousand dollars. Count your blessing and learn from this. I been taken before I know the feeling maybe one day loris88 will get caught. Even though your money is gone probably smoke or snorted up. Never again pay with a DEBIT CARD. Especially to a stranger. Again sorry and if you do find him I expect a broken bone on Loris88 for compensation. A big bone maybe the femer bone.
I've not made a million dollars, but i have finished ahead 3 for 3 now. Maybe $200 profits from them. Pocket change for some, but a nice chunk for some of us low budget collectors. Still best to do a little research on the seller before you commit. Just my opinion.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
@Gluggo Do credit cards protect against scams? I understand that they protect against fraud, as in if some bad actor steals my credit card information and uses it. But if I willingly used the card the buy an item from an individual and paid through paypal with my credit card, I find it slightly hard to believe that the credit card company would have to eat that loss.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
My understanding of debit cards has always been it's basically like paying cash as far as any "protection" is concerned.
Certainly worth a phone call to the bank to find out, especially since "rules" are always changing.
CoinP I am no expert just a working man in Alaska. If I got scammed I doubt I would claim it other than return it if possible. I might be to embarrassed to do that. I am sure there are some much better answers by board members. I would hate to give you bad information. Also I don’t think I been scammed or do not know I was scammed. Maybe to bull headed to admit I been scammed. Sorry I can’t answer that.
I understand your plight, I've been 'burned' on the forum a couple times before !!!
Impersonating a federal agent is a pretty serious crime. Could be his third strike looks like to me. You will not get you money back, but you can stop him from robbing others.
I was finally able to see the letter.
Unless he mailed the package from outside the US, US Customs & Border Protection would not have any involvement in your items.
I speculate that he recreated a letter (minus identifying information regarding the seized property) that he was stuck with when one of his shipments from China got intercepted. I'd contact customs and border to report this as they must have a file on him.
Yep, taking this kind of risk for a couple of hundred dollars is just stupid. Maybe not this time, but this crook will wind up back in jail.
The credit card company would eat the loss and/or go after the recipient. Credit card companies do have fraud guarantees. Especially in a case like this, a simple charge back for failure to deliver is all it would take.
This is not good. For anyone.
I am beginning to think that perhaps the moderators should place restrictions on new members posting in the BST or attempting to sell items here. Until sufficient evidence of real participation.
I am not usually a fan of rules and restrictions but this site has generally cultivated a comfortable environment for a like minded group of hobbyist. I feel a sense of comfort and familiarity here and have a fondness for many members I browse the BST often and I have bought and sold as well as traded with several people here.
I don’t go into the BST expecting to be scammed but I am always wary. Some members who do not feel cynical or jaded might not recognize the many red flags of a possible scam.
The optimists, Those without worldly experience, those who live in rural areas, those who haven’t been exposed to all the ugliness out there, particularly in the digital world, and those who have a faith in their fellow man or woman should not be preyed upon for their innocence. Or mocked for not knowing better when they have been scammed.
So maybe have a probation period for newbies looking to “unload stuff” to protect the membership here. We are all walking talking typing free advertisement for the greatness of PCGS. Maybe they could look into an added layer of protection for their fan club.
Pound stranger danger!
Wait no I did that wrong...
Pound sign Hashtag stranger danger...
Nope
stranger danger
Is that how they do it?
Roccout
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/