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Member of Forums and I got scammed, what do we do now?

Backstory: hindsight is 20/20. Loris88 (full name Loris M Ader) from the BST site got us. I was dumb enough to take the obvious bait. I payed a few hundred, while @jclovescoins paid one or two hundred. I paid with Venmo and Zelle through a Visa/Bank of America DEBIT card. I can provide any other correspondence/phone number/return address of Loris if anyone would like. Some posts by the scammer: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006994/brother-is-taking-offers-on-his-lot#latest https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1007051/reverse-image-search-these-pics#latest https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006922/selling-some-old-coins#latest

I came home and received Loris’s package with this inside it (nothing else of course).

It’s obviously a fake, including a misspelling near the bottom and it doesn’t even describe the items being seized (unless someone can prove it’s real.) JC bought the exact SAME coins and is awaiting his package. Loris’s Venmo: Loris-Ader-1
and his Zelle: paulwader8688@gmail.com.
This guy even has CONVICTION RECORDS!

First of all, I’m not sure how to get a refund. I doubt Zelle or Venmo will help, so BoA or Visa is my only choice. I do not have enough time to call, so email/chat is my only option. I’m not sure where to find that information, so assistance would be helpful. Second, how do I file this report with a government group, if there is any? I have lots of information of Louis (address, phone number, zelle and Venmo). Any amount of assistance is helpful, thank you.

Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

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Comments

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, you can probably say good-bye to your money. The amount is too small to generate much interest from authorities.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • AethelredAethelred Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭

    I am really sorry to hear this. I think of these forums as a safer place than the internet in general to conduct trades, but a healthy dose of caution is still always in order! I would advise always ask for (and check) references before doing a deal with someone who is new to you.

    If you are in the Western North Carolina area, please consider visiting our coin shop:

    WNC Coins, LLC
    1987-C Hendersonville Road
    Asheville, NC 28803


    wnccoins.com
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry to hear this.
    It's my biggest fear buying online.
    I think the only recourse you have is charge back on the CC.

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 3:27PM

    Can I say “another one” or two “bites the dust”

    :o

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought that name was familiar. Loris88 is already banned on the forum, 29 posts, a member for 6 weeks, and generated a high negative points count (back when we had the negatives for disagrees and flags). I vaguely recall questionable posts by him on the coin forum.

    I know nothing of these payment methods you used. I assume it is like cash, but who knows. PayPal is "old school" these days, I guess, but it provides some layer of protection.

    This is the same person who was trying to sell a family heirloom signed photo of Babe Ruth over on the autographs forum. He on the one hand seemed to know nothing about it other than he was sure it was real, but he also suggested that there were some discrepancies to known authentic Ruth signatures. Apparently someone bought it.

    That first post of his offering two "copper" coins that were clearly gold coins (or fakes) for $50 was pretty bad, Classic scam where he pretends to not know what he has and hopes someone jumps on it thinking they are making a big score.

    My PC won't load the photo of whatever paper was in the package, but the weight at shipping will show it was empty. If he forged some official document or signatures then maybe you can get him on forgery, impersonating law enforcement, etc.

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Folks there ain’t no bargains on the bst.

    B)

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This saddens my heart. I hope the wronged parties are made whole.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Hopefully mail fraud will be added to the list of convictions soon.

    And for the fraudulently issued false "Seizure Notice".

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭

    @BG I’m not sure how to do that because I don’t have the time to call my bank. I can’t seem to find an email or chat number for Bank of America.

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurboSnail said:
    Lot of members had warned the lurkers about this trade. They tried to help but.. :*

    @jwitten had posted multiple warnings in each thread that this was likely a scam. Looks like he has been banned now for some reason.

    Successful BST Transactions With: tonedase, streg2, airplanenut, coindeuce, vibr0nic, natetrook, Shrub68, golden, Lakesammman, drddm, Ilikecolor, CoinJunkie, wondercoin, lablover
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JasonGaming said:
    @BG I’m not sure how to do that because I don’t have the time to call my bank. I can’t seem to find an email or chat number for Bank of America.

    I am not trying to pile on since you have already been roughed up by this Loirs88 character, but many large financial institutions (credit cards for sure - not sure about BOA) have 24 hour customer service. If you don't have the time to follow up then I guess you will have to swallow the loss and move on.... :/

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, a victim of transactional fraud should file a police report with their District Attorney's office, white collar crime unit. If you can provide them with all the info and probable cause is established, a criminal complaint can be issued for this offender. If he does not show up, then a warrant of arrest shall be issued. Dollar amount threshold determines felony or misdemeanor. Arrest warrant goes into NCIC and it will catch up to him somewhere. Be sure to provide all web based contacts, how you identified him and any aliases, screen names, etc. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopefully @jclovescoins will chime in w/his version of the deal.

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭

    I’ll try to find BoA’s chatting system (if they have any), if not I will try to find some time to call on Saturday. Thanks for the help, everyone!

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You need to contact your Attorney General and your Postal Inspector as this is mail fraud.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Hopefully mail fraud will be added to the list of convictions soon.

    It is 100% Mail Fraud. The idiots who sent it even got the Newark, NJ Zip Code wrong.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • Save the mailing envelope, proof of mail fraud. As for taking the bait, greed will get you every time. Good luck on recovery.

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭

    @AmazingIntellect agreed. Thank you.

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 actually, I did not buy that group of coins. It was different ones he showed me.

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • JasonGamingJasonGaming Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck @BuffaloIronTail how should I go about filing the mail fraud to the postal inspector and attorney general? Any links to help me get started?

    Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would first vailidate the Notice of Seizure and Intent to Forfeiture is legitimate. If not I would think Mr. Ader would face a much larger penalty than your refund. JMO
    jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 4:38PM

    The irony is the perp is long gone & is repeating this scam over & over again.

    He like other perps will continue to take advantage of the gullible & steal $$ for minimal work.

    Heck it’s like robbing a bank w/out a gun or a hand written note.

    LE will not touch this nor give you the time of day over this.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Take it to a Post Office and show it to a Supervisor. Tell Him/Her the story. Fill out the Stolen/Rifling Mail report. It should go up the ladder to The Postal Inspection Service.

    I'm retired (USPS 2006) and don't know any more about how they do things now.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Broadstruck @BuffaloIronTail how should I go about filing the mail fraud to the postal inspector and attorney general? Any links to help me get started?

    You can call both as even if you need to leave a voicemail they will call you back.

    As mentioned save all the packaging.

    As this isn't just a breach of contract and mail fraud you do have consumer protection.

    Your Attorney General has a bureau for consumer protection.

    Your local Postal Inspector can also help as USPS does not take mail fraud lightly.

    I'm not sure if you'll get your funds back but both mentioned above can put a world of legal hurt on the scammer that far outweighs your loss.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This incident is so "messed-up". I hope the buyers are made whole again !!! :'(

    Timbuk3
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alarms were raised. The allure of getting a good deal clouded your better judgement. Learn from this. It's going to be tough to recover money charged on a debit card. Good luck to you.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone who asks you to pay any way other than PayPal credit card or the equivalent should always be suspect. I actually insist that people PAY ME using credit cards, even if they offer other methods, so I have to pay 3% because that gives us both a sense of confidence in the transaction.

    I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing the experience. It may well help someone else avoid a similar fate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JasonGaming said:
    Backstory: hindsight is 20/20. Loris88 (full name Loris M Ader) from the BST site got us. I was dumb enough to take the obvious bait. I payed a few hundred, while @jclovescoins paid one or two hundred. I paid with Venmo and Zelle through a Visa/Bank of America DEBIT card. I can provide any other correspondence/phone number/return address of Loris if anyone would like. Some posts by the scammer:

    First of all, I’m not sure how to get a refund. I doubt Zelle or Venmo will help, so BoA or Visa is my only choice. I do not have enough time to call, so email/chat is my only option. I’m not sure where to find that information, so assistance would be helpful. Second, how do I file this report with a government group, if there is any? I have lots of information of Louis (address, phone number, zelle and Venmo). Any amount of assistance is helpful, thank you.

    Your bank should be able to help you with authorities. Zelle is essentially a wire transfer. I've used it, but I've never read the fraud guarantees if there are any. You need to talk to your payment processor.

  • CoinPhysicistCoinPhysicist Posts: 597 ✭✭✭✭

    There are no fraud guarantees with Zelle. If memory serves me right, they explicitly released a statement a while back saying to only use Zelle with friends and never to pay for a product with it, especially not first. Because people are using it to scam. @jmlanzaf

    Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 6:05PM

    @CoinPhysicist said:
    There are no fraud guarantees with Zelle. If memory serves me right, they explicitly released a statement a while back saying to only use Zelle with friends and never to pay for a product with it, especially not first. Because people are using it to scam. @jmlanzaf

    Yes, that's the only way I've used it - family and friends. I have always figured it was "same as cash". That's why I insist on PayPal CC payments - both incoming and outgoing.

    Thanks!

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2018 6:20PM

    First sorry you got scammed. So Loris88 was quickly Identified as a Possible Fraud and Scammer over on BST. You were unfortunately taken. To add insult to injury you paid with a Debit Card. I don’t own one and never plan too but I believe you have almost no recourse through a Debit Card. Had you use a credit card you would be protected. Had you used Pay Pal and NOT Friends and family you would of been Protected. Again sorry you lost money be glad it was not a Thousand dollars. Count your blessing and learn from this. I been taken before I know the feeling maybe one day loris88 will get caught. Even though your money is gone probably smoke or snorted up. Never again pay with a DEBIT CARD. Especially to a stranger. Again sorry and if you do find him I expect a broken bone on Loris88 for compensation. A big bone maybe the femer bone. >:)

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KollectorKing said:
    Folks there ain’t no bargains on the bst.

    B)

    I've not made a million dollars, but i have finished ahead 3 for 3 now. Maybe $200 profits from them. Pocket change for some, but a nice chunk for some of us low budget collectors. Still best to do a little research on the seller before you commit. Just my opinion.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • CoinPhysicistCoinPhysicist Posts: 597 ✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo Do credit cards protect against scams? I understand that they protect against fraud, as in if some bad actor steals my credit card information and uses it. But if I willingly used the card the buy an item from an individual and paid through paypal with my credit card, I find it slightly hard to believe that the credit card company would have to eat that loss.

    Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    It appears you used a debit card, which if I recall correctly leaves you with significantly less protection than other methods of payment. I don't want to rub salt in the wound so I will only state that I think your money is long gone and you will not be getting it back. I hope I am wrong.

    My understanding of debit cards has always been it's basically like paying cash as far as any "protection" is concerned.

    Certainly worth a phone call to the bank to find out, especially since "rules" are always changing.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    CoinP I am no expert just a working man in Alaska. If I got scammed I doubt I would claim it other than return it if possible. I might be to embarrassed to do that. I am sure there are some much better answers by board members. I would hate to give you bad information. Also I don’t think I been scammed or do not know I was scammed. Maybe to bull headed to admit I been scammed. Sorry I can’t answer that.

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I understand your plight, I've been 'burned' on the forum a couple times before !!! :'(

    Timbuk3
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Impersonating a federal agent is a pretty serious crime. Could be his third strike looks like to me. You will not get you money back, but you can stop him from robbing others.

    Doug
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was finally able to see the letter.

    Unless he mailed the package from outside the US, US Customs & Border Protection would not have any involvement in your items.

    I speculate that he recreated a letter (minus identifying information regarding the seized property) that he was stuck with when one of his shipments from China got intercepted. I'd contact customs and border to report this as they must have a file on him.

  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭✭

    @DMWJR said:
    Impersonating a federal agent is a pretty serious crime. Could be his third strike looks like to me. You will not get you money back, but you can stop him from robbing others.

    Yep, taking this kind of risk for a couple of hundred dollars is just stupid. Maybe not this time, but this crook will wind up back in jail.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinPhysicist said:
    @Gluggo Do credit cards protect against scams? I understand that they protect against fraud, as in if some bad actor steals my credit card information and uses it. But if I willingly used the card the buy an item from an individual and paid through paypal with my credit card, I find it slightly hard to believe that the credit card company would have to eat that loss.

    The credit card company would eat the loss and/or go after the recipient. Credit card companies do have fraud guarantees. Especially in a case like this, a simple charge back for failure to deliver is all it would take.

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