Conservative times in the grading room?

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ModCrewman
ModCrewman Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 5, 2018 11:30AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Has anyone else been experiencing what seems to be (IMHO) extremely conservative grading from PCGS the last several months?

I just received another submission back today and as much as I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on marginal coins, I've just been dumbfounded on some of the lack of the CAM/DCAM designations on an much higher percentage of coins from my submissions. Has anyone else that collects in a similar area as I do seen the same?

A few examples from this submission:

PR67 RD

PR68

PR66

PR66+ - I can actually see this one as fields lack depth.

PR67

Conservative times in the grading room?

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Comments

  • oih82w8
    oih82w8 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nooooooo....I have four in there right now...perhaps it's just proofs that they don't like right now. Nice grouping in my opinion.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Everyone has mood swings......

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    A few of those definitely deserve cameo. Especially the cent.
    Beautiful coins!

    My YouTube Channel

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018 12:27PM
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    you know my ex wife >:)
    (all due respect to the above post)

  • ms70
    ms70 Posts: 13,958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018 12:49PM
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    I tend to think a conservative grading room benefits CAC and it's fans.........

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2018 2:25PM
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    Those should go in my near-cams post.
    Actually, all of them:). Nice coins!

    Collector, occasional seller

  • DollarAfterDollar
    DollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The penny and the nickel seem to have been cheated.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • Elcontador
    Elcontador Posts: 7,743 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Being in coins as long as I have, I'd say inconsistent, not conservative.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
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  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It all depends on the coins; it could be they see so many of the non-rare issues that their requirements are higher.

  • Ronyahski
    Ronyahski Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They must have some new graders that are afraid to grade. Can’t explain some of the grades I’ve seen lately.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    This is why I do not send modern for grading. I sell them raw and let the buyer do that.........sorry if any of those were mine Mod.....you got screwed.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How those are not CAMs is a mystery.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    This is the first I have heard this complaint.... I would think we would have heard more if it was widespread. If the grade don't fit, you must resubmit. (with apologies to Johnny Cochran :D ) Cheers, RickO

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow!

  • Manorcourtman
    Manorcourtman Posts: 8,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not sure about conservative but they sure are slow in the grading room!! At least Economy service!

  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • BobSav
    BobSav Posts: 937 ✭✭✭
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    Maybe oh never mind who cares.
    Bob

    Past transactions with:
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  • Boosibri
    Boosibri Posts: 12,714 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The Truviews sure make these look CAM

    Latin American Collection

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The Cam and non-Cam classifications have long been imprecise. I have coins that were clearly deserving, but did not get it. I also have an 1869 Proof Dollar with the Cam makes wonder why it received it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Kkathyl
    Kkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I actually like the conservative grading as long as it’s fair and honest.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • Gluggo
    Gluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @AUandAG said:
    This is why I do not send modern for grading. I sell them raw and let the buyer do that.........sorry if any of those were mine Mod.....you got screwed.

    bob :)

    I sent my moderns in and I thought they PCGS has been doing a good job! No complaints here even when they go against me. That is just me. I might bitch but I always compliment when ever I can. Any job is not easy life is a bitch.

  • djm
    djm Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ricko said:
    This is the first I have heard this complaint.... I would think we would have heard more if it was widespread. If the grade don't fit, you must resubmit. (with apologies to Johnny Cochran :D ) Cheers, RickO

    The conservative grading seems to go in spurts. There was some complaints about it about a year ago when the grading times decreased from 40+ days back down to about normal. I don't know if it is a new grader or it's the luck of the draw on one of the graders is a bite more conservative than some of the others.

  • ChangeInHistory
    ChangeInHistory Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Not my wheelhouse, but based on the images, I would think the cent and nickel would at least CAM, if not DCAM. The halves, I think there is enough missing frost they seem to just miss CAM.

  • DoubleEagle59
    DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2018 6:52AM
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    My only complaint about PCGS is through the years, their grading standards have been like a roller coaster, based in my opinion, on their pre-planned decisions to 'tighten', then 'loosen' their grading standards and 'tighten' again and so forth.

    We see all too often examples of inconsistencies and/or gradeflation.

    Being a jewelry appraiser and diamond grader all my life, I have tried to maintain one important aspect of grading - and that is consistency.

    What is an 'E color VS-1 clarity' diamond in 2002, is an 'E color VS-1 clarity' diamond in 2018.

    I do believe this is the true hallmark of a professional grader, in any type of field and I find it both frustrating and greatly disappointing when this is not the case.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Elmhurst
    Elmhurst Posts: 795 ✭✭✭
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    Very tight, but if you're a "preferred provider," you may do better.

  • leothelyon
    leothelyon Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As for the photography, the nickel seemed to turn out the best. But if there's ample frost on the back of Franklin's and Lincoln's hair and back, there wasn't enough lighting from that direction to bring out those frosted areas for the photo. An umbrella of lighting is needed to photograph frosted proofs properly.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • RogerB
    RogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    RE: "Being a jewelry appraiser and diamond grader all my life, I have tried to maintain one important aspect of grading - and that is consistency. What is an 'E color VS-1 clarity' diamond in 2002, is an 'E color VS-1 clarity' diamond in 2018."

    Hence, the fundamental flaw in present 'coin grading.'

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Trends are Trends..........if you like to think that way.

    The Conservatives are in office right now, so why not?

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • DollarAfterDollar
    DollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Seems pointless to create a submission about now. You get to wait 2 months or more, will be disappointed with the grades assigned and get beat up on the sales price because the market is so slow.

    Can't win.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • leothelyon
    leothelyon Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    Trends are Trends..........if you like to think that way.

    The Conservatives are in office right now, so why not?

    Pete

    What they would have us believe anyway.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • topstuf
    topstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It helps that there are "master stones" in diamond grading.
    Clarity takes some experience, but at least if you have eyes the color is pretty easy.

  • Danye West
    Danye West Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
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    I don't know that any of these should be a lock for cameo, except maybe the nickel. I have heard it been said that PCGS is getting tighter on CAM and DCAM distinctions specifically.

    I could make a birth year registry set out of pocket change.
  • SanctionII
    SanctionII Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The photo of the 1961 nickel shows a coin that (if it looks in hand like it looks in the photo) is a no brainer CAM. I wonder what the reason is why the graders who looked at the coin did not award the coin a CAM designation???

    The other 4 coins also look like they should warrant a CAM designation.

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