Talk about grade tightening!
Wabbit2313
Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
Bought the coin in a 64, and it looks as good as my 65's all day long, in spite of the bad cell phone pic. (Shadows and daylight on the coin)
-Cracked and sent Express level, came back 63.
-Cracked and show graded in Denver, came back 62.
Maybe I'll send it in Walk-through and go for the 58!
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Comments
Insurance must of lost the vision plan
Ouch.
Thats Crazy
Had a similar experience with a Jefferson nickel years ago. Homey don't play that game anymore. The service level is called "reconsideration".
If it goes 58+ next time, you may have something!
Are you using my PCGS Member Number for your submissions?
That's something that would happen to me!
Those are all in newer slabs, right? What going on there?
Crack it, pocket it, send it back.
At this point it will be worth more in an everymans set. 58 is the new 64.
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Coin was graded a 64 in April.
Coin was graded a 63 in June.
Coin was graded a 62 in August.
I'll send it in October and let you know. It has become a matter of principle on this sucker!
Coin sells for $200 in 58. $1500 in 64. I have weak 66's that look the same.
@Wabbit2313 I've been seeing this trend for the past six months. Sorry about that... right now is not a good time to crack and pray.
Wow, that's terrible!!!
I thought that coin grading by PCGS was more consistent than baseball card grading by PSA, but I guess not.
Donato
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I was being facetious.
Ouch!! Then add in all the grading fees, shipping and time. Maybe let it cool off a bit. With that much of a swing in price it may be wise to put her away for 6-8 month's.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
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Getting burned is part of the game.
How about a good picture of the coin! Hard to judge the controversy from those pics!
Maybe if I have time. It really does not matter though, they liked it as a 64 in April.
Bet it has some high point "rub" or "friction" on the leg.
If they view it as a "little wear" one day, it grades 62......if they view it as "cabinet friction" another day, 64.
Bust Halves can have similar grading variations depending how the "high point stuff" is viewed on a given day by the graders.
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Send it to Joisy to get a gold bean!! Man, I'd be seriously P'd off about that. Your not joking at all about the tightening going on in Long Beach. I wonder who submitted it the first time around?
Denver was tough. Maybe we need to stop talking about loose grading.
Sell it to a dealer if you want it to come back as 64 or 65.
Lance.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
I cracked out this one and it went from 63 to 62 (both non PL).
1879-s rev of 78
I'm on a self imposed submission holiday
Time to hide the woman and children
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Imagine if the 65 upgraded
well, at least they got the FH designation right each time.
I expect many, including the OP, won't like what I'm going to say but I'll say it anyway ---several years ago at a F.U.N. Show luncheon the speaker was David Hall and he was taking questions. someone asked about this type of occurrence and HRH was quite clear in his response --- he strongly suggested that instead of cracking/submitting we should use the regrade option. if the OP had done that we would be discussing a coin that didn't cross but was still in an MS64FH holder.
also, considering the amount of handling this coin has undergone, there is every chance that slight friction or rub may have taken place.
...Rinse and Repeat. And just think about how many times this is done and the money the TPG makes. Consistency is in direct conflict with profitability.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
If cac told you how they saw the coin, ie "overgraded" right off the bat, people would not crack and resubmit. The rationale of why the coin downgraded escapes me. If the coin is a real BU with limited chatter and excellent eye appeal I would think it should grade close every time.
It is impossible to comment about this without close-up pictures of both sides of the piece.
Bill, what we all think is immaterial. PCGS "thought" it was a 64 in April, a 63 in June, and a 62 in August. This is not an accident. Things are tight! I am also on coin submission Holiday for a while.
I don't understand, they ( the graders ) must be seeing something.
Wow.... the 3 level downgrade in five months is surprising.... I guess we are in a 'grade deflation' period now...Cheers, RickO
Wow! That's crazy. Hopefully you can get it back into at least the 64 holder you had it in. Looks like a good looking coin.
So let me get this right...It would now get a Gold bean if it was submitted to CAC after being unable to get a bean at all if submitted a few grades back....Very Interesting!
It was never sent to CAC.
Grading is subjective. If it were objective, there mightn't be CAC. This mostly is due to subjecting our coins to them, in a nutshell. Get a green or gold sticker, after the downgrade. Sell for more or less. But do take the man's advice and have fun with your coins.
Oh, the humanity!
BHNC #203
Maybe, maybe not...
While the sting of something like this happening is really bad, and I feel for @Wabbit2313, the reality is that all we are paying for is an opinion by a TPG on any given day. It's like asking me how I feel today. Most days you will get the same answer, but on some days you might get a different answer even though I'm the same person.
By and large most of us will agree with a TPG assigned grade (minus a few outlier collectors who will always take an issue with a TPG grade), but if we don't agree it doesn't make us right or wrong, it's just that we don't agree and we can choose to buy or pass based on our own judgement. And sometimes a TPG grader will see it differently on a different day. It is what it is, it is not Gospel, it's an educated opinion on any given day.
And for the people that aren't adept at grading, TPG services will give you a decent consensus grade most of the time, so don't be swayed by the anomalies that some advanced collectors experience in grading.
I have noted a tightening of the grades of late from the few pieces I have purchased. None of the slabs have dates, but I have noticed on some of the "early thick slabs" with the "blue fade to white labels" that the standards were a bit loser.
But I'm sorry. I can't express an opinion as whether the lower grades your coin got are justified or not.
in the late spring, I bought a very expensive Classic Head $5 gold piece in an MS-61 holder that used to be in an AU-58 holder. The three grading points made a huge difference in the price. That coin was graded during the "lose period." If I cracked it out and sent it in today it could very well receive an AU-58 or even an AU-55, and it would be justified. I own the coin, but I know what it is.
Why did I buy it? It's an 1834 Crosslet 4 variety which is very hard to find in either AU or Unc., and the opportunities to purchase an example of this piece in high grade are few and far between. As Dr. Sheldon wrote, "Sometimes the collector bug bites hard," and trumps rationality.
Keep cracking, handling, and letting them handle it, eventually it will be a lowball poor 1. Might take hundreds of years, but you appear to be a patient and stubborn man.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Grading is simply an opinion. Opinions change?
Dave
I think standards waver is a better way to put it.
Grading Standing Liberty Quarters is a difficult thing. In my view, any piece that has a rub on the knee can’t grade any higher than MS-62, and I think that even that is overly generous. If the coin in question is rubbed there, that might be the reason for the big downgrade.
Get it CAC'ed and then it will be automatically considered 4 grades higher.
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That is very strange and frustrating.
I do not consider myself an expert grader, but 64 to 62 is something even I should be able to see. Now if it really is a rubbed knee, and that's the difference between a 62 and a 64, I don't think I would ever collect these in MS. And, whatever it is, rub on the knee should be something they looked for and saw all 3 times.
This is very good advice.
I would STRONGLY suggest you submit as regrade. The coin is cracked out anyway and the graders see it raw but no risk of downgrading. I don't think there is any reason not to do that. The regrade process should not be confused with the crossover process.
@keets said: "...also, considering the amount of handling this coin has undergone, there is every chance that slight friction or rub may have taken place."
This made me laugh! I was in a grading class around 1978-1980 with 20+ students. We were using "technical" grading standards. An Unc had no trace of wear. When the instructor reviewed the grades, the students who were on the front tables graded the coin Choice Unc (MS-65 back then). By the time the coin got to the last part of our group, they were grading it AU-58 due to a slight amount of friction on the high points!
@Dave99B said: "Grading is simply an opinion. Opinions change?"
That is the biggest problem with "commercial" grading. It can fluctuate a little due to many factors. You all know them right?
@BillJones said: "I think standards waver is a better way to put it. "
YES!
"Grading Standing Liberty Quarters is a difficult thing. In my view, any piece that has a rub on the knee can’t grade any higher than MS-62, and I think that even that is overly generous. If the coin in question is rubbed there, that might be the reason for the big downgrade."
In a grading class, **once students learn the difference between friction rub and "stacking rub," ** any loss of luster due to wear on the knee and down the leg = AU! Nevertheless, if it has blazing luster and no marks you will find these coins graded as high as MS-65. Because they are worth it.
Interesting post Wabbit. Some days it is not about the coin, it is about the grader........
Some are missing that it is NOT a big downgrade from years ago. It is a systematic downgrade since April. It went to 63 first, on the way to 62. I used this as one example. There are others, even from those beloved Rattlers. Be careful out there!
Why not try a another grading service? Get into an NGC 63 or 64 slab and a different service may upgrade it to a 64 or 65 just to show NGC can't grade.
The bright side is that sooner or later (if you take care that it does not get mishandled) it will get back into an MS-64 holder when conditions are "right."
What I cannot understand is why would you embarrass our host with this post? I'll guarantee that each of those three grades is correct and can be defended by any of you who know how to grade.
Nothing to be embarrassed about, there is a grade tightening (deflation) going on. (If you could read, you would notice that is the title here.) Go back to your other threads and stir the pot there. You really need more to do in life.
Look on the bright side, if you gave it to EAC it would come back with a list of defects and a notation of PO-1.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson