I have heard of down grades much worse than this. I knew a dealer who had an 1878 Morgan dollar that was graded PR-64. He cracked it and sent it in looking for an upgrade. It came back MS-64, P-L. He cracked it again and got back the PR-64. He was happy to sell the coin at that point.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If you believe in the market cycles thingy, it's good that standards are tightening, it means we are at an inflection point and the whole market can rise. Of course, it's not much fun if YOUR coins are on the line for the inflection.
@Wabbit2313 said: "Nothing to be embarrassed about, there is a grade tightening (deflation) going on. (If you could read, you would notice that is the title here.) "
Actually, the title of the thread is Talk about grade tightening!
While I do sympathize with your experience (as others have), I had an honest question: Why would you possibly embarrass our host with this post? Do you send in so many coins that you know this situation is due to grade deflation? I have heard the market is slowing down but I have not seen it where I work or any change in grades like what happened to you until your post.
Rather than "stir the pot" I tend to take the side of the TPGS much of the time. So while I believe each of those three grades is correct and can be defended by any TPGS, that kind of a grade drop seems extreme to me.
BTW, this kind of abusive comment from you should not be tolerated: "Go back to your other threads and stir the pot there. You really need more to do in life." We don't know each other and I wish you only happy collecting and hopefully getting your coin in a higher grade slab.
PS In my limited experience SLQ, Ike dollars, $10 Indians, and incuse gold are the hardest coins to hold a line on.
@mercurydimeguy said: @Wabbit2313 I've been seeing this trend for the past six months. Sorry about that... right now is not a good time to crack and pray.
Man, from 64FH to 62FH from April to August??? That's a tough one to swallow!! Though, as you say, at least it got the FH designation all 3 times (I know, small consolation)!!
I've had specifically EXTREMELY good luck with crack-outs, especially POST-April. Cracked out several coins grade by NGC and ANACS (old small white holder, blue label and yellow label), and every one came back at LEAST same-grade. 6 of 11crackouts upgraded (5 of those 6 went up 1 numerical grade, but especially a 1911-D $10 Eagle, went from 40 to 45 (looked undergraded at first glance) with 5 coming back same grade. Sent in 10 for crossover (again, NGC and ANACS-all kinds of ANACS holders...old small white holder, blue label and yellow label), 7 of 10 crossed same-grade, with 3 upgrades, all by one numerical grade. No moderns (depending on your definition of 'modern'), with nothing 'newer' than the '11-D $10 Eagle. I guess I should find a big ol' piece of wood to knock on!
A good candidate for a coin that probably should be a 63 and got a lucky upgrade to 64 for someone. Then back to the same old 63. And then a 62 on the low end swing. I've had NGC swing 2 points on the same MS type coins but never PCGS. On an 1882 PL seated half I once owned, NGC graded it MS65 first time out. That was unfortunate for me since I bought it out of auction raw for solid/strong 66 money. The next time in a month later, it graded MS67. Curiously, the coin was catalogued as a Gem Proof....lol. That didn't fool anyone.
Another time I bought what I felt was an ok raw MS64 seated quarter out of auction where Eric Streiner was the under-bidder. I got a MS62 grade on that which was insane. I was getting out of the market at that time anyways (1990) and just shipped it off to auction raw to take my lumps. It sold for MS62/63 money. A year later I see the coin on the bourse floor in an NGC MS64 holder....lol. Chalk it up to the "market."
Often when you see a huge variation like this, the coin has a problem and is being silently netgraded and the graders cannot agree on how punitive to be.
Comments
I have heard of down grades much worse than this. I knew a dealer who had an 1878 Morgan dollar that was graded PR-64. He cracked it and sent it in looking for an upgrade. It came back MS-64, P-L. He cracked it again and got back the PR-64. He was happy to sell the coin at that point.
I have sent 3 different SLQs more than once. None have received the same grade the subsequent time it was graded. (all sent in raw)
One went from cleaned to questionable color to MS64.
The most recent one went from MS62 to MS63FH.
If you believe in the market cycles thingy, it's good that standards are tightening, it means we are at an inflection point and the whole market can rise. Of course, it's not much fun if YOUR coins are on the line for the inflection.
They are tight these days, in my experience as well.
Youch.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Could it be another sign of a weak market?
Auction houses can use low estimates to imply a healthy or stable market so can TPGs be attempting to market grade down to support published prices.
If the old 63s are now selling for 62 money, down grading the old 63 down to 62s would show us a healthy market.
I really don't think the services are conspirating or intentionally doing this but can it influence the graders decision?
Grades seemed to go up in the last booming market.
Yikes! Sorry to hear....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
@Wabbit2313 said: "Nothing to be embarrassed about, there is a grade tightening (deflation) going on. (If you could read, you would notice that is the title here.) "
Actually, the title of the thread is Talk about grade tightening!
While I do sympathize with your experience (as others have), I had an honest question: Why would you possibly embarrass our host with this post? Do you send in so many coins that you know this situation is due to grade deflation? I have heard the market is slowing down but I have not seen it where I work or any change in grades like what happened to you until your post.
Rather than "stir the pot" I tend to take the side of the TPGS much of the time. So while I believe each of those three grades is correct and can be defended by any TPGS, that kind of a grade drop seems extreme to me.
BTW, this kind of abusive comment from you should not be tolerated: "Go back to your other threads and stir the pot there. You really need more to do in life." We don't know each other and I wish you only happy collecting and hopefully getting your coin in a higher grade slab.
PS In my limited experience SLQ, Ike dollars, $10 Indians, and incuse gold are the hardest coins to hold a line on.
Do you send in so many coins that you know this situation is due to grade deflation?
Yes, and now DB-TROLLER can disagree with this comment like he has all the others.
Man, from 64FH to 62FH from April to August??? That's a tough one to swallow!! Though, as you say, at least it got the FH designation all 3 times (I know, small consolation)!!
I've had specifically EXTREMELY good luck with crack-outs, especially POST-April. Cracked out several coins grade by NGC and ANACS (old small white holder, blue label and yellow label), and every one came back at LEAST same-grade. 6 of 11crackouts upgraded (5 of those 6 went up 1 numerical grade, but especially a 1911-D $10 Eagle, went from 40 to 45 (looked undergraded at first glance) with 5 coming back same grade. Sent in 10 for crossover (again, NGC and ANACS-all kinds of ANACS holders...old small white holder, blue label and yellow label), 7 of 10 crossed same-grade, with 3 upgrades, all by one numerical grade. No moderns (depending on your definition of 'modern'), with nothing 'newer' than the '11-D $10 Eagle. I guess I should find a big ol' piece of wood to knock on!
A good candidate for a coin that probably should be a 63 and got a lucky upgrade to 64 for someone. Then back to the same old 63. And then a 62 on the low end swing. I've had NGC swing 2 points on the same MS type coins but never PCGS. On an 1882 PL seated half I once owned, NGC graded it MS65 first time out. That was unfortunate for me since I bought it out of auction raw for solid/strong 66 money. The next time in a month later, it graded MS67. Curiously, the coin was catalogued as a Gem Proof....lol. That didn't fool anyone.
Another time I bought what I felt was an ok raw MS64 seated quarter out of auction where Eric Streiner was the under-bidder. I got a MS62 grade on that which was insane. I was getting out of the market at that time anyways (1990) and just shipped it off to auction raw to take my lumps. It sold for MS62/63 money. A year later I see the coin on the bourse floor in an NGC MS64 holder....lol. Chalk it up to the "market."
THE MARKET IS NOT SLOWING DOWN!! I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT!!
Often when you see a huge variation like this, the coin has a problem and is being silently netgraded and the graders cannot agree on how punitive to be.
If you want consistent, accurate grading you would need to send to NGC.
Some people put together grading sets and have to buy multiple coins.
You have good start with only one coin. Look at the money you have saved!
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
.
nice knowing you LOL