Would you step down your coin a grade to get it a CAC sticker.
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Reading about the 1794 dollars in another thread and it looks like 4 of the 5 that TDN listed had CAC stickers. A fortunate event that these Eighteenth Century coins landed in the right plastic that afforded them a sticker. Let us say that you had a valuable dollar graded MS 64 by PCGS that JA denied a sticker to. Would you try to get it reholdered as an MS63 so that JA would give it consideration for a sticker.
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That's ridiculous.
When hell freezes over and donkeys and pigs fly. No coin dealer, or even a numismatic expert, whom I hold in high regard, will dictate which coins I place in my collection.
no way
BHNC #203
I can see some who sell coins doing this... though, IMO, it is a bad move....But profit rules the motives of some. Definitely not something I would do. Cheers, RickO
There are many "sweet" grades in which the next grade downward did not drop the coin price all that much . Many $20 Libs as well as the 1955 DDO 1c in the various AU grades are in this category. When PCGS was a bit too tough in crossing an old ANACS 1955 DDO c from MS-60 to AU-58 I rejoiced as I knew I would be up for a possible gold sticker. I was right and ended up with a gold stickered AU-58 PCGS vs the old ANACS in MS-60.
Let the naysayers chime in!!
Absolutely not
Never
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
I'm with Oreville, there are many coins where this would be acceptable simply because the change in value is minimal or zero. In fact, in his example the value likely increased. Bottom line, it's the same coin regardless of the assigned grade or sticker.
give me a slabbed1794 dollar and see what I do with it....this is a test
Absolutely. If I thought it would allow me to get more minutes money when selling. No misplaced ego when it comes to maximizing value.
I'm an apparently an outlier but I see some coins which are overgraded and overly penalized by the market. There is profit to be made in down-crossing and CAC'ing coins in certain series and from NGC grade to PCGS grade -1 CAC.
The key capability is in understanding which coins will CAC at the next grade down and which coins will never CAC.
Latin American Collection
No way. Elevator goes to top here. Who would consider such an absurdity? Your kidding right?
I go by TPG grade on holder in pricing my inventory. I play crack out game to win not lose or tie. Some guys sticker just an opinion which reflects his particular taste in coins, mine is one that matters. My goal is buy low / sell high not bleed out money for unnecessary overhead expense.
Am not payer for sticker game, you need sell it somebody else.
I've downcrossed to CAC green two or three times. In all three cases the coins had no bean prior to the cross. I've got a coin now in P55 that previously CAC'd at P45, and I'm considering it for a crackout as it's massively overgraded IMO.
If the specific situation warrants it as mentioned above, sure why not. It's a business decision, leave the emotion out of it
Not for a PCGS coin as invariably it is typically worth more money unstickered at a higher grade. Now downgrading an unstickered NGC coin to get a PCGS stickered one a grade lower....that will improve liquidity and maybe even make you a little bit of money....depending on the coin.
would do it in a heartbeat on the right coin. Here is an example of one I remember and would love to own it. The ex: Gardner 1823/2 quarter sold in the sale as an NGC 61 , the current owner had it down crossed to PCGS 58+ and cac gold stickered ,
This belongs in the CAC forum: https://tinyurl.com/y6wvxwrv
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
SSDD. TDN had it right so long ago. Some just need answers.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Can't argue with that. Trying though to find out how important the sticker really is. Seems that money talks (no surprise) and beyond the added perception of value, the sticker is little more than BS.
Been there - done that. I downgraded the NGC64 to Pcgs 63+ CAC. That was the right grade in my mind
For the CAC lemmings, they'd probably happily pay 2x the higher graded coin for the one graded lower with a shiny green 2 cent sticker affixed.
Insanity abounds.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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In a heartbeat,
for a gold sticker.
I would not do this.
no.
Depends.
What is the MATTER with you. Are you DENSE?
The sticker doesn't confirm GRADE. It confirms other stuff. LOTS of other stuff. LOTS, I tellya.
You silly goose.
Cuckoo, cuckoo haha....
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
NO and No way
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Your opinion may matter to you but I'd guess that few else in the business would pay for it, not the same for "some guy" making a market in CAC stickered coins. Sounds abrasive and I don't mean it that way but not sure how else to say it.
Latin American Collection
Personally, at this time as a collector, no. However, if I had the right coin and I was ready to sell I can see oreville's point
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Hey, I think I just figured out the best way to enjoy this thread! Now, if the popcorn could only be green and gold....
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
I suppose if you are into financial suicide, that would be a good strategy.
I will say this. When I was a dealer and got back a grossly over graded coin, mostly from NGC, I made sure to sell it to a dealer at a discounted price that reflected the true value of the piece. None of my retail customers would end up with it.
Spending more money on postage and insurance to get a coin downgraded is not in my DNA. The unwarranted body bags and the pieces that under graded were enough to discourage that. I try to be a good person, but I am not a saint. Being honest and making money in this business is hard enough. And for the record, I’ve also never met a dealer who was saint. Good and honest, yes. Self-sacrificing, no.
i did this with a charlotte piece and turned a profit...for exactly the reason you state. later, i spent the money on cheap thrills and bellyaches! (a manchester reference for ya, bb)
the financial suicide comment directed toward you...was that meant to be irony?
That question is absolutely ridiculous.
I would not do that, but then I buy the coin and not the flip or the sticker.
Donato
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At the rate this market is going, a CAC 63 will go 64 all day. Take your grader choice. MHO.
Not for a average collector priced coin, but on a 7 figure coin I guess it makes sense to have all the bells & whistles on the slab.
And yet somehow, over graded NGC pieces make their way to PCGS grade -1 CAC everyday and sell for more as a result. It might not fit your narrative, but that doesn't make it untrue.
Latin American Collection
Boosibri hit the nail on the head
I can't understand what you are talking about. NGC coins that don't cross in the same grade have nothing to do with PCGS. If they do cross in the same grade, and deserve it, what is the problem? Your statement is totally confusing.
@billjones, Im not sure what you are disagreeing with in my statement? The market and savvy dealers behind it are digesting overgraded but original NGC coins into PCGS CAC correctly graded coins and making a decent profit at it.
Latin American Collection
Question: Would you step down your coin a grade to get it a CAC sticker?
Scenario: I have a half eagle in N50 that I find to be quite nice but really a C coin at that grade. I decide to step it down to a PCGS 45 at which level it is a B+ or A-. The latter combination for that coin is significantly more marketable/liquid and will likely sell for a higher price.
Latin American Collection
I don't so.
would PCGS grade reduction be covered ?
Thank you for clarifying your position. CAC did not exist when I was a dealer. There was no upside to going for downgrades, only additional costs of doing business.
Intense marketing is ruining this hobby. In the last fifteen years or so, I have seen more attention focusing on marketing and less than the coin itself.
The TPGs express an opinion on a coin at a snapshot in time. Said coin is assigned a grade and encapsulated. Such opinion can change over time.
CAC decides whether or not it is willing to purchase a particular coin in a particular grade, at a snapshot in time. Such opinion can also change over time.
Whatever these opinions are, and how they change over time, it's still the same coin (unless it has changed over time due to previous doctoring, or the effects of the environment in which it was stored for an extended period, like a Wayte Raymond album).
I
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I am saddened that such a question can be entertained and debated on a global basis without any consideration for the actual coin. There are simply no global one size fits all approaches as this question. Not all coins are created equal at the same grade level. Some are better than others... The coin should speak volumes over any sticker or even the TPG. Grades and stickers are opinions and not set in stone. Coins can be resubmitted for grading to whomever...so why is the TPG and/or the sticker the focal point of these discussions and not the Coin?
Revisiting and relitigating TPG and stickers without the slightest interest or reference to what is actually the focal point of what it is that is collected is beyond my understanding...
Incredibly short sided as well as irresponsible. Have fun with this pointless and counterproductive thread.
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The OP originally did state that if you started with a PCGS coin that wasn't stickered, would you downgrade it to get a sticker? That happens FAR less often than starting with an NGC coin and down grading into PCGS plastic + CAC. 2 totally different situations.
This
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