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JGnumismatics
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JG Numismatics
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8
Comments
The eyes in the fourth picture freaked me out.
your coin appears purt' near perfect so I guess it comes down to hairlines in the fields which as a rule don' t show up well in photos. So a definite "maybe" on the upgrade? And I guess I don't understand, probably being a novice, how that PR69 received that grade with that zit on the cheek. Maybe it's "mint made"but still...
Appears to be a tic or two under the chin. If so, I don't see an upgrade.
The track record of 19th century MS/PF NGC type coins crossing is fairly slim....even with a sticker on it. All it takes is a single hairline not readily seen through the plastic and you're back to a 67. PCGS doesn't usually take that risk. I think the eye appeal and/or toning on the coin is the major player. And in this case, based on your photos I'd only give the coin "neutral" to "average" eye appeal.
The PF69 is a black/white "monster" DCAM....and in a different league than this NGC 68. Too bad for that little patch of fur on the jaw for the PF69. Shaving cut?
Now that's as clean as it gets, imo. Send it in with a minimum cross. Its worth the shot. With Very little down side.
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I'm not sure how reliable you expect opinions to be of the grade of a PR68 Morgan dollar from web pictures. Anything above 65 you really need to see in hand.
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That's a beautiful looking coin, whether it crosses or not.
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That is a very nice Morgan... you could send it in raw....depends on how much you have in it already....probably safest route is minimum grade.... Cheers, RickO
Nice
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I don't see than 1885 Morgan Dollar in PR-68 upgrading to PR-69. It got some cloudiness in the fields, and once you get these lofty grade levels, every minor thing counts. A PR-69 graded coin from this era needs to be able to walk or float on water.
As for crossing or getting gold or green bean, I wouldn’t count on it. PCGS seems to be very conservative when it comes to crossovers from what I’ve seen. As for the CAC endorsement, I’m not sure about cloudiness on the reverse. To me a Gem Proof should have full mirrors on both sides with no “thin film interference.”
As for the 1885 in the PR-69, that is a “plutonium slab” so far as I’m concerned. With that that mark on the cheek, no matter what caused it, it’s not a PR-69. Breaking that one out of the holder for any reason would be like handling plutonium one of the most lethal substances on the planet. Your financial health would be in severe peril if that coin were ever able to roam free again.
Don't get me wrong. You have an outstanding coin which beats the devil out of the PR-64 that is in my collection, but when you get to these grade levels, things get really tight. "Super critical" is catch phrase for these coins.
I think it will cross but not upgrade. Awesome grade at 68 and a lovely coin!
So what are the other 4 fatty's? You don't see coins like that come around every day.
Its in a very sturdy, highly regarded tomb. Leave it be.
Anyone that thinks it's possible to see the difference between 68 and 69 from an online image is dangerously ignorant about how coins are actually graded.
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This is true with respect to hairlines, but I have issues with the luster on the piece.
My thought matched BillJones, mirrors limit it. Worth a try at cac and or cross.
The PR69 has a glaze hit and not a strike punch. Still 69 as it doesn't mark the grade. Your coin does look better though as the photography is second to anything. I'd encourage you to crack and resubmit and then go for CaC gold. On any given day it is worth it.
That's a beauty for sure!
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Is 68 not good enough? Why would you want to resubmit it?
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The 69 has a planchet flaw. Not a hit. Still - a problem coin that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Obviously, someone felt differently...even if just the potted palm in the back of the room. Lol
What a coin!!!
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Agree with TDN re the planchet flaw, and that does not affect the grade. I've seen an 04 S Half in PC 5 with a roller mark (from the mint), and that doesn't affect the grade, either. If something happened when the coin was made, it doesn't affect the grade. Another example are adjustment marks on Early Dollars.
Agree with TDN re the PF 69 $. Wouldn't go near it. I think someone bought some expensive plastic.
A bean just means that JA is interested in buying the coin because he thinks he could sell it (quickly).
I have long since given up on getting what for me is an expensive cross of an NGC coin to a PC holder at the same grade. Either leave it alone or crack it out. In this case, I choose the former.
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The cheek on that gal is gawghussss. The coin is in a deeper part of the pool than I'd explore even with SCUBA gear.........
That said, I doubt you'd be successful with a crossover or upgrade. The existence of an uglier coin at a higher grade doesn't mean much - unless you submit them together and hope they make the same mistake twice. This one should be evaluated on its own merits and distinguishing between gorgeous (68) and outrageously stunning (69) is impossible from photos.
My thoughts are very much in line with what Bill and roadrunner said. If it's going on the market, I'd certainly send it to CAC. Other than shipping and having it away for a couple weeks, there isn't much downside there.
I disagree. What about a coin, which is not well struck, that is the same as was when it left the dies? Such coins don't get up in the hierarchy of grades because it short on sharpness and details. They usually get MS-67 and higher grades. (There are exceptions to everything, especially with gradeflation in play.)
The chuck out of the face of Ms. Liberty on that Proof dollar is a big deal. If I were shopping for a PR-69 Morgan Dollar, and I had that piece sent to me, I would not be a happy buyer. That problem is mint caused, and it kills the coins for me. There is no way that piece should have gotten a PR-69 grade. It’s a coin for a collector who is more interested in registry points than anything else, and those guys are out there.
Bad-a$$ coin, that is for sure.
I am stunned into silence... That advice is sought and even offered as to upgrading a coin such as this .... An 1885 proof Morgan that was graded 68 by NGC 25-30 years ago based on images and without an in hand review.
Really?
Seems a significant amount of numismatic common sense has been lost...
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This post was mostly for fun and partially as a joke....where coin is pr68 and in an old NGC holder......I have strong doubt it would upgrade but wanted to hear people's thoughts with old holder. I agree with cac statements and thought coin was nice to share with fellow forum members. I really didn't expect a real thought out answer explaining whether or not mine would upgrade to near perfect from my lousy iPhone photos. Thanks to all that contributed, will update...
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Now that's a phenomenal coin!
It would upgrade my collection
Bill, I don't think it should be in a PF 69 holder, which is why I wouldn't go near it, but I don't make the rules in the grading room. Back in the day, Scott Travers said the best possible grade on a type coin is MS 67. I agree with him, but again, I'm not in the grading room.
I did see a 1911 PF Liberty Nickel in an NGC holder, and thought it was several points overgraded. But that's just me.
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How many hairlines are allowed for a pr70'ish grade? Subtract a grade and you still have a winner.
Even IF it makes PCGS PR69 with that haziness on the reverse, most collectors with that kind of money to spend will want to see the caca bean because there's so much skepticism about the "new" grading and pronged holders. It seems unlikely to get the bean, as others have noted.
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