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Guess the grade- 1911 $2 1/2 Indian

jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

OK guys (and gals), test your skills with this one. These are known for being hard to grade, so good luck!

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    DoubleJCoinsDoubleJCoins Posts: 78 ✭✭✭

    I don't know gold that well, but I'll say 62

    Feel Free to Check out my eBay Listings
    stores.ebay.com/DoubleJCoins?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hint: Not a MS62

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    58 shot 62

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    clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 5,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    58

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU-58, shot MS-61 since you have told us that it is not an MS-62. The coin could trend higher, but that scratch in back of the Indian's nose is distractiing.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another question: What grade do you think this would green cac at, and what grade do you think it would have a shot at a gold?

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All guesses have been too high so far.. looking good for a gold CAC :)

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    56Cu35Ag9Mn56Cu35Ag9Mn Posts: 1 ✭

    AU-55

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 7,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU55?

    Collector, occasional seller

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still too high

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    TwobitcollectorTwobitcollector Posts: 4,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU50 Details

    Positive BST Transactions with:
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    coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan,JWP,dantheman984,olah_in_MA,USMC_6115
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It straight graded (not sure if ngc holdered detailed coins back then?)

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    BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    could be 50 now maybe 45 then?

    eBay ID-bruceshort978
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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 2:31PM

    AU 55 or AU58 from these pictures, lighting etc..

    It does has some luster in it... any signs of dippped color?

    I have seen more bad looking coins in MS60,61 holders.

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still too high :o

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    RexfordRexford Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Somewhere between PR01 and AU53

    Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
    https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 3:26PM

    Wow... I'm stumped. Its an incused design, so I typically grade these by looking at how much wear and dings are on the flats. My first impression was either 55 or 58...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    cant be lower than au58

    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    tommy44tommy44 Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    47 1/2

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭

    XF45 if someone was lucky back then.

    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most undergraded coin I've owned:

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    NumivenNumiven Posts: 382 ✭✭✭

    I will buy it $50 over price guide...

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:
    Wow... I'm stumped. Its an incused design, so I typically grade these by looking at how much wear and dings are on the flats. My first impression was either 55 or 58...

    I grade by looking at the Eagle's shoulder details, and Indian's headress strap. This one shows little to no wear in my eyes. Here is a VF30 in coinfacts to compare:

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    coinhackcoinhack Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    All guesses have been too high so far.. looking good for a gold CAC :)

    Agree. In fact, if it was 2 full grades (VF30 to AU50) I would think it could still go gold.

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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭

    looks like a solid 30 to me.

    just kidding.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 14,156 ✭✭✭✭✭

    58 - 62 ???
    :smile:

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    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That coin is AU55+. I tend to think mechanical ERROR . . . . . .

    Drunner

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So this would pretty much have to gold cac, right?

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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 8:59PM

    @jwitten said:
    So this would pretty much have to gold cac, right?

    there's only one way to find out!

    it's possible ngc net graded the coin for some reason i can't see (is it heavily abraided?)...but it certainly looks severely under-graded whether it "gold stickers" or not. i agree it looks AU or better in those photos.

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @steveben said:

    @jwitten said:
    So this would pretty much have to gold cac, right?

    there's only one way to find out!

    it's possible ngc net graded the coin for some reason i can't see (is it heavily abraided?)...but it certainly looks severely under-graded whether it "gold stickers" or not. i agree it looks AU or better in those photos.

    The scratch looks worse at some angles, so I'm wondering if that brought it down. I still can't see it going that low though. If anything, Cac might say it shouldn't straight grade with the scratch. But there is no way it is even CLOSE to VF30.

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    BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That has to be the worst GTG we have seen in a long time. Usually the board gets It to within a few point either way. It has to be an error in labeling or a real bad photo. Crack that sucker, asap.

    eBay ID-bruceshort978
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2017 9:51PM

    @BruceS said:
    That has to be the worst GTG we have seen in a long time. Usually the board gets It to within a few point either way. It has to be an error in labeling or a real bad photo. Crack that sucker, asap.

    I actually bought it for the holder, and was shocked when I saw how nice the coin was (the seller pics were bad). I would rather have a gold cac on an old ngc fatty than this coin in a modern MS62 holder, honestly.

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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a 58 coin that got heavily bonked for the scratch, or a mechanical error.
    If the scratch were that distracting, it should have been bagged and not graded.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow.... that grade defies reality... must have been a mechanical error... Certainly a much better coin than 30. Cheers, RickO

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is one of the very early NGC "white holders" when the grades were ultra conservative. The NGC "black holder" coins were uniformally under graded from the few I've seen. Think of it as something like PCGS "rattle holder" era.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2

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    GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    never would guess it was VF 30. Wow

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    BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2018 5:37PM

    That has to be the stupidest grader ever. Incuse is tough, but not THAT tough. Thank God it's in a no-line fattie and both coin and holder are eminently collectable :)

    My "real" grade guess was AU53.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Update: I sent the coin to CAC. Any guesses? lol

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    GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    gold sticker

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If not for the scrapes and slight wear I'd have guessed MS68. VF30 surprises me and all of those around me.

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    RayboRaybo Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:
    Update: I sent the coin to CAC. Any guesses? lol

    Double gold sticker?

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    REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    plutonium sticker. CAC should just refund your money with a note: "Really? As if you need a sticker!"

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    Josh32Josh32 Posts: 138 ✭✭✭

    My first guess would be AU55.

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2018 6:40PM

    Paleface grade, bad medicine, wampum lookum heap better to me.

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    Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some one got it wrong and if you bought it for that grade you did not get it wrong... Nice for the grade I don't want to hear it.



    Hoard the keys.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for posting, but I wish you had not given any hints. Your coin is an excellent example of "Gradeflation."

    If I were CAC, I would not put any sticker on it as it is obviously under graded by today's standards.

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, sure is better than a 30. Im rooting for some drama with a green sticker but who knows! (Just kidding)

    Latin American Collection

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    HighReliefHighRelief Posts: 3,728 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good example of why we say grading a coin is just someone's somewhat opinion. I would give is a solid AU53, that is my opinion and I am hoping to see you receive a gold bean on it.

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