Made purchase on BST, but never received merchandise.

donzme · February 10, 2017 7:24PM

It's been 40+ days since the seller cashed my cashier's check (verified by my bank). Seller gave me a tracking number that says, "order processed: ready for ups" (a label was created, but ups never received possession of a package for shipment.) I contacted the seller through private message and email eight times, but received no response. In fact, he hasn't even logged into this forum since Jan. 6. I have the seller's name and (out of state) address, but no phone number. What specific steps should I take next?

Barndog · February 10, 2017 7:31PM

you will get lots of advice of how to track seller down and get your money back. I'd advise that you should start to face the reality that you were scammed and won't see a dime back or the merchandise. Post the thread and seller name and maybe someone will have more specific and better advice for you.

MorganMan94 · February 10, 2017 7:33PM

Is it metalsaver1970? I saw a thread posted about him awhile back.. I don't know what I would do other than Google Map his address and name or try to find him on Facebook or something.. Not much you can do but I wish you the best!

PerryHall · February 10, 2017 7:38PM

I wonder if he died. Many forum members are fairly old and not in the best of health.

UtahCoin · February 10, 2017 7:50PM

How about a city and state?

Walkerfan · February 10, 2017 7:59PM

What is his name? You'd be doing a public service by informing us.

BruceS · February 10, 2017 8:02PM

Yes, user name would help. Was he a long time member? Another case for using PP.

Coin Finder · February 10, 2017 8:18PM

Please let us know. It will help you and all of us. Sometimes these are just misunderstandings, or like someone said earlier..people pass away. It has happened on these boards more than once...

ChrisRx · February 10, 2017 8:46PM

The "user" is metalsaver1970 with a most likely made up name of "Ed johnson" and he had plenty of excuses. He is plenty alive. He claimed to have injured his leg and somehow that makes it so he can't "get to the post office." He also hasn't emailed me since early January.

His "email" is edward70johnson@outlook.com

He is a scammer

I was fortunate enough to pay through paypal and got my $ back. Others have used other methods such as Google wallet.

Do yourself a favor and report it to https://ic3.gov/default.aspx

ChrisRx · February 10, 2017 8:53PM

P.s.

He also gave me a "tracking #" it was part of the scam making you think it's "on its way, just be patient."

In addition to reporting his crime to the link I provided, you should also contact your bank to get more info on who the clown was that cashed it so you can track him down.

logger7 · February 10, 2017 8:58PM

I have never had any luck with IC3 reporting, doesn't hurt reporting it though. Look at all enforcement options, even grouping together with other scammed people. File a report with your local police; postal inspectors; if in state small claims court; do everything you can to make the scammer radioactive and easily "found" through google searches.

ChrisRx · February 10, 2017 9:03PM

PM sent to OP.

PTVETTER · February 10, 2017 9:04PM

There is something to say about doing business with a B&M shop.
the internet has some advantages, but there is nothing like the old time relationship that can only be done in person.

OPA · February 10, 2017 9:08PM

Reg PP is your best friend. My guess the % of transactions gone bad over the years on the BST might even equal or exceed eBay's %.

MilesWaits · February 10, 2017 9:12PM

@OPA said:
Reg PP is your best friend. My guess the % of transactions gone bad over the years on the BST might even equal or exceed eBay's %.

So, folks have commented on "his extremely low prices" and he joined the forum November 16 and he didn't take PayPal or CC's...
Gosh, how many more clues were necessary?

ChrisRx · February 10, 2017 9:46PM

Miles,

I was concerned of course and he said he would "open an account" with PayPal. I also asked to be invoiced (sent him a link on how to do just that.) He claims paypal "froze" the funds (probably the only truth he told because I did get my $ back.)

I think I was the only one that paid via paypal unfortunately. But I still want to see justice and will help when and where I can.

Bochiman · February 10, 2017 10:58PM

If it was metalsaver1970 that burned the OP, I feel for him.
I recall the first thread about that....and, if memory serves me right, he came back recently with another thread...I can't find it right now, but it was another bst thread.

I love a bargain, but I am cautious by nature and steer away from the types of deals that someone like that puts out there.
In that case, I would have done either PP (and paid the % or split it, if I really wanted it) or paid it once the goods were received.

vpr · February 11, 2017 4:09AM

Sorry to hear, OP! I also paid him about $1000 via Paypal. Filed a dispute and got my money back. His excuse was that Paypal was holding onto the money, so he couldn't ship out the coin (for nearly a month). To be fair though, he had been in contact with me during this time. He said he couldn't ship because of the PP hold, and even said he would see if he could get PP to expedite the dispute. Maybe, he was trying to gain my trust?

I was going to do a larger $12K transaction with "Ed". The prices were a little too good, but nothing too crazy. He would have still done slightly better than selling to a dealer. He didn't want to take Paypal and didn't want to ship first either, although he had no feedback on this forum and I have several references.

I asked where he was located so we could potentially do the transaction in person. He claimed to be in Ohio and I'm in Illinois, so I offered to drive out there to do the deal. When he started making ridiculous excuses as to why he can't meet me in person (too busy volunteering), I figured it's probably best to not send him any money via a method other than Paypal regular.

ricko · February 11, 2017 7:16AM

Seems the warning signs were there in many cases.... however, it is good to get this out and visible here on the forum so that people are aware of the con.... of course, he could soon be back under another name....
I hate to see this, since I have done many, flawless and excellent transactions on the BST..... Cheers, RickO

roadrunner · February 11, 2017 9:09AM

@logger7 said:
I have never had any luck with IC3 reporting, doesn't hurt reporting it though. Look at all enforcement options, even grouping together with other scammed people. File a report with your local police; postal inspectors; if in state small claims court; do everything you can to make the scammer radioactive and easily "found" through google searches.

No luck with IC3 here either for a $2000 scam. And I even had their name, phone number, bank accounts, copy of cash/signed check by perp, google satellite shot of their house, etc. IC3 jurisdiction for Atlanta wouldn't do a thing. The local police couldn't even knock on their door. What a farce. I think they'd rather keep the scammer's money in their state/jurisdiction than sending it back where it's now a "drain" on their economy...lol.

Tried all those others too including BBB, state consumer protection, Attorney General, police at both jurisdictions, etc. The "authorities" want the big fish and/or organized crime with numerous scams for sums at least over $25,000-$50,000 in total. A shout out to Doug Davis who does more than most of these other entities combined.

logger7 · February 11, 2017 9:16AM

You could try a collection agency before or after you get a judgment. 25% plus an initial fee to do a skip trace or credit rating lien is standard.

Coinlearner · February 11, 2017 9:22AM

If this keeps happening,we may loose our privilege to BST on this site. Perhaps a message stuck on top of the board warning newcomers of the danger of being scammed and to do their own due diligence. The "old-timers" can usually spot a deal too good to be true but not so for newer members. .

SamByrd · February 11, 2017 9:58AM

there is a common denominator to the scammers.

I for sure would like a post at the top of the BST as mentioned by the previous poster.We simply have to use due diligence and have to get references if the seller is unknown. I have had many hundreds of buys here and never had a problem. I insist on regular paypal those are my terms I set as a buyer. Sellers can set there terms but as a buyer I do not need to accept them too many coins out there to buy.

I will not do ppg and will not send a check or money order to anyone I dont know period. That aspect effects almost all the scammers based on the post I have read almost all are ppg transactions and are not covered by the newest TOS of Paypal.

It is better to pass and buy another day elsewhere. If the seller wont take reg paypal it is a big red flag and I walk.

ChrisRx · February 11, 2017 9:59AM

Banding together and the total $ scammed adds up.

Band together on the IC3 reporting will raise more red flags.

I also agree another alt is in the works and if I feel that might be the case, then shipping the product first must be the new normal protocol for these forums (if you have no history)

If you're not in the famed "circle of trust" then you ship the product first

ms70 · February 11, 2017 10:10AM

Will PCGS delete that account right away or is there a procedure a victim has to take to make that happen?

PerryHall · February 11, 2017 10:25AM

I follow a few simple rules to reduce my chances of getting scammed:
Buy only from active participants here who post on a fairly regular basis.
Buy only from forum members with a high post count and have been here a fairly long time.
For high value items, get references and check them.
If a deal is too good to be true, pass on the deal because it probably is.
Get good pics of the merchandise being sold.
When you get the sellers contact information, also get their phone number.
Listen to your gut feelings---they're usually right.
These simple common sense rules will greatly put the odds in your favor of having a successful transaction.

Outhaul · February 11, 2017 10:30AM

I PMd him about a BS&T post and never got a reply.

Good luck.

Cheers

Bob

mbogoman · February 11, 2017 12:00PM

@PerryHall said:
I follow a few simple rules to reduce my chances of getting scammed:
Buy only from active participants here who post on a fairly regular basis.
Buy only from forum members with a high post count and have been here a fairly long time.
For high value items, get references and check them.
If a deal is too good to be true, pass on the deal because it probably is.
Get good pics of the merchandise being sold.
When you get the sellers contact information, also get their phone number.
Listen to your gut feelings---they're usually right.
These simple common sense rules will greatly put the odds in your favor of having a successful transaction.

This. It should be a template for all to follow.

logger7 · February 11, 2017 12:10PM

The guy's con followed a pattern; say you have easily sold items at or below metal/currency value, offered "to collectors". Ask questions that throw off the scent, ie, I have a large bullion collection and want to get good money, what are the best forms of payment? Have a standard or slightly goofy avatar and name. Come off as Mr. Joe Collector, a nice understanding guy.

Personally I would like some type of deadbeat sharing program so that 100% honest collectors or small dealers could locate the deadbeats within driving distance and knock on their doors and see what in the Sam Hill is going on. I heard about how it was handled in the good ole days, I'm not suggesting that. But definitely use all legal remedies.

donzme · February 11, 2017 4:23PM

Thanks everyone for your support and responses. I've made peace with my situation.

Thanks ChrisRx, for reaching out to me.

Thanks roadrunner, for all the different suggestions.

The seller is indeed, metalsaver1970. He's doing business as Ed's Coins out of Jackson, Ohio.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because he might be: hospitalized, incarcerated, out of the country, etc. But the fact is that I didn't receive the merchandise I paid for, and the seller is non-responsive. I've been very patient, but now I'm ready to contact law enforcement, IC3, and a collection agency.

To our hosts: will you set up some type of good guys/bad guys list or employ a feedback/ratings system like iTrader to protect honest folks?

MsMorrisine · February 11, 2017 4:28PM

@donzme said:
Thanks everyone for your support and responses. I've made peace with my situation.

Thanks ChrisRx, for reaching out to me.

Thanks roadrunner, for all the different suggestions.

The seller is indeed, metalsaver1970. He's doing business as Ed's Coins out of Jackson, Ohio.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because he might be: hospitalized, incarcerated, out of the country, etc. But the fact is that I didn't receive the merchandise I paid for, and the seller is non-responsive. I've been very patient, but now I'm ready to contact law enforcement, IC3, and a collection agency.

To our hosts: will you set up some type of good guys/bad guys list or employ a feedback/ratings system like iTrader to protect honest folks?

References
Heed red flags

MsMorrisine · February 11, 2017 4:30PM

On a related note - is it acceptable to ask on the BST for people to vouch for another?
. - same Q for the coin forums?

LanceNewmanOCC · February 11, 2017 4:56PM

@MsMorrisine said:
On a related note - is it acceptable to ask on the BST for people to vouch for another?
. - same Q for the coin forums?

i've asked for references and others have asked about me. fwiw.

vouching is a staple to entrepreneurship. imo.

not sure i'd do it publicly right out of the gate unless i sensed a problem or there became a problem that was not fixable by direct communication.

unless i've missed why you were asking. i'm a bit taken aback you'd ask if it is acceptable to ask?
.

AUandAG · February 11, 2017 5:10PM

I ask for references and have been asked before. Happy to provide and understand the "never done business with this guy" syndrome.

bob

Natchez14 · February 11, 2017 7:09PM

I was also scammed by metalsaver1970 "Ed Johnson". I paid through Google Wallet, which was set up with the same email as his PayPal account.
He sent me two tracking #'s, one from UPS and then a USPS a few days later, after he had his tragic foot accident.

logger7 · February 11, 2017 7:43PM

There are usually a string of problems that plague the scammers used as excuses for why they can't fulfill their part of the contracts. My scammer with a bounced check made various excuses and insisted that in many years my case was his only failure. He said he had a concussion, then it was the IRS that had hit him and his wife hard, and he claimed to be a disabled veteran and good Christian. He said if I would just wait for him to pay, call off the police, he would have the funds in a few weeks. After endless broken promises and bounced checks my local police were able to issue a warrant for his arrest though he lives in WA state and it wasn't more than a few hundred dollars. Legal force is the only thing these people understand.

Natchez14 · February 11, 2017 8:00PM

I just received an email from Ed, and he assures me I will have a refund in hand within a week.
I will update next weekend.

MsMorrisine · February 11, 2017 8:40PM

Because I'm talking about asking out in the open with a new topic/thread.

PM is never an issue.

MsMorrisine · February 11, 2017 8:45PM

@Natchez14 said:
I just received an email from Ed, and he assures me I will have a refund in hand within a week.
I will update next weekend.

This is not the first metalsaver1970 thread and there is a reason for that

vpr · February 11, 2017 9:09PM

Does anyone have Ed's address? Perhaps someone here paid with a check?

TopographicOceans · February 11, 2017 9:10PM

IC3 is a data collecting agency.
The Federal Government won't investigate until there are multiple victim reports totaling at least $25,000.

Since the seller didn't direct you to mail the money, there is no mail fraud and the postal inspectors won't investigate.
It is wire fraud, and the FBI will investigate once the IC3 threshold has been reached.

There is plenty of fraud going on out there which keeps them busy.

donzme · February 12, 2017 4:22PM

The seller finally contacted me by email. I asked for a refund, via pre-paid, certified bank check or postal money order. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome.

silverman68 · February 12, 2017 5:32PM

PCGS should do everyone here a favor and only allow Paypal sale items. Being scammed once is way to much.

logger7 · February 12, 2017 5:46PM

I'd follow through with filing a complaint with your police on the fraud. It never hurts to make a record of a scam. I wouldn't listen to empty promises to compensate you for money that has been scammed out of you.

ShadyDave · February 12, 2017 5:52PM

There should be a way to leave feedback for others after a transaction. On the coins and silverbugs section of Reddit, we have places specifically to leave feedback for people who buy and sell precious metals and coins. That helps with scammers and seeing how many transactions a person has successfully done and when the last time they had a transaction.

We should try to figure out a way to do that.

derryb · February 12, 2017 10:21PM

It's good to out problem BST sellers at the first whiff of a problem. It halts further scams or at least puts them on hold until the smoke can clear. OP's seller is definitely a problem seller.

derryb · February 12, 2017 10:24PM

@MsMorrisine said:
On a related note - is it acceptable to ask on the BST for people to vouch for another?
. - same Q for the coin forums?

Keep in mind that "references" is not the same as "vouching for." References apply only to the specific experience another party had on a specific transaction.

DpvReno · February 13, 2017 3:04PM

If you do a quick search on Google, there are threads on Reddit and BullionSaver as well regarding MetalSaver1970 and the non-exisistant coins.

logger7 · February 13, 2017 3:14PM

I don't buy the "trust your gut" line, though I have heard it a lot. Trust your judgment, logic, with reasonable safeguards that paypal allows. I would always think of what's the end game if you trust someone who doesn't deliver? Our word is about all we have in business, once trust is lost I don't have a lot of understanding for unverifiable excuses.

bigzestee · February 13, 2017 4:32PM

A good feedback system would help a lot.Situations like this makes it hard for new members to gain trust around here.Forcing paypal wouldn't fix the scammer problem and would harm some sellers here.I've seen a lot of sellers that don't accept it.They do put restrictions on new accounts where they do hold certain amounts.I sold an item somewhere else and was allowed to only have the first $100.Putting new members on a send first for x amount of time might help and should weed out scammers.Looking at Google it appears what's there was posted by a member here.Does anyone know if he's a member anywhere else? It's odd there's nothing more on the guy unless he's new.Anyone know anything about this supposed injury? To the OP and the others sorry it happened to you all.Hopefully you are able to get back what was taken.

Bochiman · February 13, 2017 8:11PM

Sounds like people want a marketplace where transactions can be given feedback.

Hmmm......wonder if such a place already exists? Oh, yeah, it does. EBAY

I hate to see the scammers here, and I hate to see people get scammed.
However, many of us have done A LOT of transactions, in varying amounts, over the years, and it has worked out.

PCGS puts the BST forum there as a nicety...not a necessity. They do not monitor/control the BST so there is no liability for them in that way. It sounds like some members, mostly "newer", want PCGS to rule over the BST and create rules and procedures......
If one doesn't like the way it is, one doesn't have to participate...that seems simple to me. Ebay is always available and there is a feedback system already in place.

I know this sounds harsh, but the same stuff comes up once a year or so...sometimes from the same people whining that they want PCGS to change how the BST works.

Made purchase on BST, but never received merchandise.

Comments

Leave a Comment