CAC is a money making slot...
CommemKing
Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm sitting here with my complete set of Early Commemoratives. A few are CACed. I've been looking at and grading commems for years. The green beaners I have are only marginal for the grade at best. I'm still not buying into this money hole. Unfortunately CAC has weeded its way into the mainstream and you boys are eating it up! Don't give in new collectors. This fad will in some time die. It's all about making money. PCGS will due you enough good on its own. CAC blows! Mark my words I will never send a coin to be CACed! Who's with me!?
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I haven't used my CAC-submission privileges yet but when it comes time to sell I likely will...as long as the market still pays more for CAC'd coins.
Lance.
See the 1000 other threads on this subject.
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You are blowing against the wind. IF CAC is still around when you decide to sell your coins, you will leave money on the table if you don't try to get as many of them beaned as possible.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Why use CAC as a collector? Well the folks at CAC look at doctoring and originality. Alot of the coins they reject is because they feel there was too much human intervention on the surfaces. For any rejected coin, if you request it in advance, you can call JA and ask him why, hence, that is how I know where most rejections happen in my areas of collecting. I can't speak for anyone else, but I want to know about this. So submitting around 150 coins to CAC so far I have learned a heck of alot about coin surfaces and am now able to make better decisions when evaluating a coin for purchase. Small price to pay to get the knowledge. I used to be a big dissenter of the whole CAC thing until my submissions and what it taught me.
Best, SH
Maybe your eyes/grading skills aren't quite as good as you think? CAC deserves a lot of the recognition it gets and is definitely beneficial to both buyers and sellers. Buyers know they are getting a premium quality coin for the grade and the dealer gets additional cash through the CAC sticker. A win-win
I would tread lightly on this CK...your OP reads of defamation, and we have seen "others" go POOF.
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The OP doesn't seem to think that ones he has are PQ for the grade which begs the question; "why did he buy them?"
The OP has gone poof before so I guess he knows the path to reincarnation. He has not been able to shake the pebble free out of his shoe apparently.
In my experience the folks who rail against CAC the most actually could use their services the greatest. However, the OP is free to March to his own beat. All good.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The increase in value of all of the coins that been given a CAC bean far exceeds the fees that were earned by the company itself. So the title of the OP should be the submitter to CAC is a money making slot....
Well, nobody is forcing anybody to submit their coins to JA. If you don't want to...don't. It's that easy. After all, it is just another opinion.
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Unfortunately, unless his commemoratives are high grade, vividly toned, or both, chances are money will be left on the table when he sells regardless if they have beans or not. Such is the commemorative market.
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
Capped Bust Quarters Registry Set
Proof Walking Liberty Halves Registry Set
The very first CAC'd coin I bought has a gold sticker. Upon considerable reflection I determined that it has a lot of "human intervention" and that PCGS got it right with an EF-40 grade, and CAC got it wrong in suggesting that it is under graded. The piece is a Bechler gold dollar, it it has a fair number of brush marks on it. "AU net graded to EF-40" is the proper grade.
CAC is good, but not perfect, and the constant kowtowing to it has gotten to be too much.
Well... if they are only marginal for the grade at best, stickered or not, why did you buy them?
Latin American Collection
Each of my coins grades are agreed upon by multiple opinions from just two sources: Mine and the professional panel of graders at PCGS. If that's not enough I might as well quit.
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I am happy that others are happy with their coins and their choices. I'm a little confused as to why they are so angry that I am happy with my coins and my choices. I think folks need to open a fresh box of wine and just chill. Coins are supposed to be fun.
Yep. Hobbies aren't supposed to be stressful
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
CAC provides what collectors want, and they pay for ..peace of mind when buying coins that are accurately graded.
If someone paying $2,000- or more for a coin , a CA sticker worth the price
OP opinion worth less, than opinion of marketplace
I've started to see it this way, to understand why some are upset about other people's choices.....
There's a road where, years ago, the speed limit was 25mph. Now, due to advances and changes, the road has changed a bit, things are a bit safer, and the speed limit has been raised to 55mph.
So, you get on the road and want to go 55mph, but there are some old people out there that are still going 25mph and get really mad when they see anyone else going 55mph, because THEY KNOW BEST! They know that road. They are the experts. You are just someone who hopped on and read the sign and believed it is actually safe enough to go 55mph.
There will be accidents at 55mph, but there are also accidents at 25mph. Safe drivers are safe at 55 or 25mph. Same with CAC and non-CAC. People that have a good eye, and can grade, can find great non-CAC coins but can also have nice CAC coins.
So, I get what I like, CAC or no-CAC, but I stop listening to the little old grannies who have a corncob up their butt whenever CAC is mentioned in a thread as they never want their model-T to be updated and want to stay 25mph or less in life.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The opportunity to acquire a very specific variety of the Betcher gold dollar that I wanted, plus I looked at the piece with a less critical eye than I should have.
Unfortunately, the beans have imposed themselves on collecting and anyone who is looking at an expensive coin that is bean-less now wonders.... why no bean?
Commems and Early Type
That's a great coin Bill. I was referring to the OP in buying marginal commems then complaining about CAC which seems to me to be more of a self reflection on personal attention to quality in an available series vs. a thoughtful condemnation of CAC
Latin American Collection
Merely an opinion of an opinion.
However, for four figure coins and up, it seems to provide the buyer with a warm cuddly that the coin is PQ, and buyers have responded with their money. I don't normally sell those coins so I don't worry about CAC.
If it's money you are looking for when time to sell those four figure and up coins, then it's a must-go.
If the coins are for you to enjoy and you feel they were graded properly in the first place, I wouldn't worry about it.
Just my 2c.
I agree with this. I have also come to the conclusion that passion plays a big role. People overuse the word these days. At my work, everyone proclaims that they are 'passionate about x'. They aren't, but they think it makes them look motivated. When it comes to hobbies, though, the more passionate you are about the hobby in general, the more likely you will find yourself twisted by that passion. I know I was in the past with other hobbies. I found my self emotionally, intellectually and financially invested in an activity that I no longer enjoyed.
In hobbies, I have found that caring just a little bit less has been a blessing. It seem counter intuitive, but it has worked wonders. So when someone creates an impassioned post, I remind myself that they really must love the hobby a great deal to care so much. When I disagree with their position, I will add a post if I feel it might be worthwhile but I pause before hand to appreciate the feelings involved. If I just disagree and have nothing to add, I just move on to another thread.
I did chuckle at the timing of this thread because I just got my latest CAC submission back about an hour ago. Went 10 for 20 with one gold out of the bunch. Of the three coins I really wanted to get a sticker, two did but my favorite did not. Despite that, it remains my current favorite Walker and will stay in the set until I sell them all.
In the end OP will have more $$ to spend on coins by not using CAC and I will have shorter turn around times with CAC because many don't believe in them. Seems like we all win.
I can say I have never sent a coin to CAC and have never owned a CAC coin. That's because I collect modern mint errors and CAC doesn't sticker them. It's been interesting sitting on the sidelines all this time.
I'm in it for the coins NOT the stickers. I can totally get by without the CAC sticker but in cases of the big money coins I suppose a sticker may help someone that's hesitant pull the trigger.
Carry on
A gold CAC bean is a lot cheaper than a 1% reconsideration fee.
I have had positive experience overall with the CAC service- as a buyer, seller, and submitter.
I am old enough to be a "granny," but I don't drive a "model T" on the road or at a coin show. I disagree with the point of your post which is based on the assumption that CAC is the wave of the future and that anyone who doesn't hop on board is an anachronism. Those who don't sign on as acolytes of CAC company have some very good reasons for not drinking the Kool Aid. The company is not perfect; it makes mistakes; and this assumption that any coin that doesn't have a sticker has something wrong with it is invalid.
There are many coins that CAC has never seen, and there are many collectable coins that CAC has rejected for whatever reasons. CAC is no better than the best grading service, and it has taken on an assignment that far easier than the responsibilities a grading service assumes. All CAC has to do is say "Yes," "Yes!!!" and "No." That's a hell of lot easier than having to authenticate, attribute and grade a coin from scratch. Given the CAC function, their batting average should be closer to 1.000 not .900.
I have said many times that CAC gets it right over 90 percent of the time. CAC can be a useful tool, but it should not become the numismatic "Oracle of Delphi" that has veto power over every coin. They provide a service that you may or may not find useful. For me it has some influence, but I would never buy or bid upon a CAC approved coin without a really good picture at a minimum. The service is simply not that reliable.
You can talk about highways and how it's okay to drive 55 miles per hour a road that was once posted at 25. BUT if you drive 55 mph on that highway after an ice storm, it doesn't matter if you are driving a model T or my Caddy with all wheel drive, you stand a good chance of wrapping yourself around a tree, a signpost or a light pole.
Like it or not, several Dealers are throwing it back at you if your coin is not CAC'd. Lot of resistance to get good prices on higher dollar coins if not cac'd (see my other post)
MorganMan:
For every twenty-five collectors who think that they are expert graders, maybe two or three really are experts?
How will Coin Collectors Interpret Certified Coin Grades in the Future?
SpaceHayDuke:
These are educational remarks from SpaceHay. His grace may very well be 'down to earth.'
The Specter of Coin Doctoring and The Survival of Great Coins
Bill Jones:
Even Ted Williams struck out on occasion. When a collector seeks expensive coins, he should hire an expert to explain the positive and negative characteristics of each coin to him. Even so, there will always be some risk. Bochiman's post above reminds us that driving a car involves risk, yet many people do so often.
MannieGray:
I disagree. There are people who earn substantial portions of their incomes from coin doctoring and slipping coins by the grading services. In some cases, experts at CAC identify consequences of doctoring that others missed. I have seen many coins for which it is factually true that they have been doctored, not "merely an opinion."
Insightful10@gmail.com
Greg said this-
I disagree. There are people who earn substantial portions of their incomes from coin doctoring and slipping coins by the grading services. In some cases, experts at CAC identify consequences of doctoring that others missed. I have seen many coins for which it is factually true that they have been doctored, not "merely an opinion."
I agree in spades. It's one of the reasons I'm pro CAC
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
A total of 5-20 seconds each for the other sources....and unlimited by yourself. And in the vast majority of cases, there is probably not complete/unanimous agreement among those TPG graders. I learned long ago that their opinion + my opinion still leaves considerable room for error. You can put 10 of the best graders in the world together with unlimited time on a coin....and maybe get 60-80% agreement. How does that work with only 3 graders?
I think the world is upside down and flat.
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OP (respectfully) doesn't have a clue. You send in your own coins and write down whether you think they bean for their grade, then see what happens when they return. If you can grade, you'll quickly realize that the ones you think will bean, do bean. The ones you think won't, don't.
The cost is easily made up when you sell.
I agree that CAC is only an opinion of an opinion. I can take or leave coins that are CAC'ed. It all depends on weither I like the coin or not and if I need the coin or not. I will not pass on a coin because of a sticker or no sticker. It's if I like/want the coin or not. I have never sent coins to CAC and never will. I do believe that some here put way to much importance on the sticker and not the coin. To me coin collecting is collecting coins not stickers.
L
I've never known anybody to collect stickers. Coins with stickers associated yes. They are still are buying the coin. There is always a coin.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Use it for your advantage; I know dealers who just consider it another profitable gimmick and wouldn't want to play ball with them but they are just limiting themselves. I have known dealers who hated ebay and online stuff, next thing I know they are the biggest sellers in the state in numismatics on ebay! The reformed alcoholic can be the most vociferous.
You know exactly what I meant. Those who will not buy a coin without a sticker........are collecting stickers.
That makes less then zero sense. There is always a coin involved and it's usually very nice.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Mark you are a hoot. If you are trying to get me mad it won't work.
Based on your undertaking the difficult task of pursuing your dime set, I can understand your point.
But others have a different goal in the coins they purchase and find value in the CAC approval.
Not trying to get you mad or upset. Just make zero sense to me
Just be kind enough to point out a thread where someone posts a picture of just a sticker without a coin.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
As an analogy then, if some will not buy a coin without a sticker are collecting stickers, are those that buy only coins in one brand of TPG slab collecting slabs? Just sayin'
Best, SH
I'm going to pretend like you posted this one in my thread on gold beans that shouldn't be....thanks.
I'm just saying....why pass on a coin just because it does not have a sticker. For one thing it may have never been sent to CAC and if it was maybe it would sticker. If you like the coin buy it. I'm sure I have many Dimes in my collection that would sticker....some would even get Gold, but I will never send them in.
I don't know anybody who has 100% stickered coins.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No....not really. I will buy a coin in any holder or even raw if it is a coin I want or need. I will then get it in a PCGS holder so it will go in my sets. It's just another benefit that PCGS is my personnel choice of holder.
i am giving this thread a sticker just to trigger the cac-haters
I've found that people who don't get a high % of their coins stickered don't like CAC, and people who do get a high % of their coins stickered do like CAC. Not scientific but seems to be the about right...