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The Michael F. Hayes Barber Megathread

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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sedulous said:
    My biggest fear is if the registry -58 craze becomes out of proportion and people take low end uncs into a slightly grazed -58 state. To have the registry goals violate the conservation laws and progressively reduce unc populations scares me.

    Most low end uncs that acquire rub will not grade 58! Overall 58's average between 63 and 64 money and many 63's with rub probably wouldn't 58! I have seen a few 58's that are baggy but don't seem to have any wear.

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey, by the way, there is an '09 50c AU58 for sale at www.hjbltd.com... since we are on the topic. Asking price is slightly north of $500.

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lenny,
    I don't remember seeing the 00-O half before. Looks very nice. Would love to see it in person sometime.
    Tom
    $300 well spent on the 09 half. The Heritage sale coin is the first "crazy" price i have seen in awhile. The Sunshine collection garnered some very strong sales. But other than that it seems Barber halves have cooled in the recent sales period. My feeling, most collectors (myself included) would struggle what actually qualifies a 58 coin as a plus coin. My preference, I will take the original problem free surfaces every time. They are the true rarities.
    Darrell
    Great point on the population reports being exaggerated.
    Jim

  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:

    @sedulous said:
    My biggest fear is if the registry -58 craze becomes out of proportion and people take low end uncs into a slightly grazed -58 state. To have the registry goals violate the conservation laws and progressively reduce unc populations scares me.

    Most low end uncs that acquire rub will not grade 58! Overall 58's average between 63 and 64 money and many 63's with rub probably wouldn't 58! I have seen a few 58's that are baggy but don't seem to have any wear.

    Darrell-

    I've cracked out 5 or 6 Barber Halves from PCGS 61/ 62 holders and sent them in raw. I saw a little rub on each of them. All but one came back in a 58 holder; that coin went from a 62 to a 63 so I was still happy. I know that none of them will ever get a "+" grade, however.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:

    @paesan said:
    I'm sending all my 58 halves in for plus grades and I'll sell all that do if it means that kind of premium. Then I'll go and get me a 94-S dime.

    I'll cry if that 1900-O +'s. I was torn between that one and the one I have!

    Don't worry, Darrell- Lenny's '00 O Half will never "+". The reason I know is that "I" think it should be in a "+" holder; that seems to be the kiss of death.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jeff
    You do have the magic touch with PCGS. 61's +62's as a rule are in said holders because they are either baggy or a bit washed out. That's not to say some 58's have been pushed up to a 61 or 62. I guarantee you if you took all the 61's and 62's out there,cracked them and rubbed em a bit.....over 75% would not grade 58!(And I think I'm being generous with the amount that would 58!)

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    Tom,The fact that it has a Gold Bean tells me it would probably go MS and not garner a + grade. It certainly looks MS in your pictures. I feel several of my 58's I have tried to get a + on are being held back because PCGS now sees them as MS coins. My avatar is a great example of that IMHO! With a total population of 59 + grades(a few which may not exist now) Barber Half's are indeed tough to make in 58+. I just hope PCGS doesn't loosen up on there + standards.

    Edit to add a story. I know a dealer who was trying to make a + grade for me! :smiley: The coin was submit 4 or 5 times and kept bouncing back and forth between AU58 and MS63! He gave up when he came across another that did get a 58+.

    Yes, I agree. In fact, when I picked up this coin my first thought was "I don't see any actual wear" even though it was graded AU58. There is some darker patina on the high points, but the fields are devoid of luster breaks and the coin, in-hand, kind of states "I'm MS with thick skin". CAC also agreed that they thought it was actually an MS coin, as well. I have no expectations that it would either go AU58+ upon resubmission or that it would ever be worth anywhere near the $3k+ that the other coin sold for.

    I posted because I was stunned at the sales price of the AU58+.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm still scratching my head over that 1909 PCGS AU58+. Wow!

    Below is another 1909 that I own and I paid about $1,000 less for it than what the AU58+ went for. My coin is a PCGS MS65 in an OGH with a Green CAC sticker and has booming luster. Again, this is $1,000 less than the AU58+! Can you all tell my mind is having a hard time wrapping itself around that auction result?

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Paying stupid money for a Plus Grade really takes the joy out of collecting.
    Reason being, in this sliding market, paying a top premium for a common
    date - just because it has a plus - really bothers me. I have yet to decide if
    it's worth my while to send in my 58's ( about the only Halves I'm keeping )
    for a Plus Designation.

    Here's the newest Half - a la CRO:



    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • UltraHighReliefUltraHighRelief Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2016 1:05PM

    Since today is post your 1909 half dollar day, here are a few that I have handled in the last few years.

    Both are PCGS AU-58 CAC


  • IMO, it sure appears the "+" designation is quickly becoming a gimmick.

    I was once told of another barber coin that gained a significant resale price only after getting a "+" designation. An excellent point someone once said sticks with me: a 58+ is still a circulated coin. It is simple, pure and true. It is as though the label is trumping the coin which is too bad. Jim's comment regarding the coin, instead of the holder, also resonates with me. I don't know what movie this quote came from, but man I'm saying to myself now: "This Tom Foolery doesn't hold any water with me!"

    Jim - Yes I will be in CR this weekend both Saturday and Sunday. Going to the coin show sounds great. I'll be in touch.

    Milo

    *****

    What?!?! No Barber quarters in the mail today!?!? ... "heavy sigh" ...
  • Labelman87Labelman87 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭✭

    All: The images and discussions concerning AU 58 and AU 58+ Halfs is very enlightening. As I have stated in the past - 75 years ago you went from XF to Unc (see old catalogs or ask MFH :) ); about 40 years ago it was AU to BU; now we have 8 distinct grades in AU to MS60. ...You had best like what you buy as 8 AU grades give many a headache, and, it would be interesting to break out any AU+ 10 times (be it 50, 53, 55, or 58) and see what comes back over the 10 times!

    Craig


  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ... it is as though the label is trumping the coin which is too bad.

    I agree with Swede, we are losing the true art and pleasure of what coin collecting pursuit is all about replaced by holder submissions and re-submissions. Mike said it right. I enjoy the beauty of Barbers and the joy of collecting them not one-upping each other.

    • T

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • Labelman87Labelman87 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭✭

    See the hugh difference in the 64 and 64+. ...LOL I own them as they look great in hand, not that the O is a plus.
    ...Sorry for the vent!

    Craig


  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tom, I have several coins in my set I had to pay more than 65 money for! :o

    David! That 1st 09 is sweet. Looks like a good candidate to me!

    I'm at a loss for words for the rest of you guys comments! :s

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I appreciate the candor and ability to share opinions concerning the hobby. Not all views are the same and the discussions are beneficial. No offense intended. I have loved seeing each of your pursuits and expect some of you have been collecting for so long you desire nothing but the best. Here's wishing to your success!

    I recently found what I believe to be one of the more purer circulated specimens I have been able to add to my set... check out this '05-P quarter in VF. Love the surface quality:

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Craig, Goodness! Love the '01-O quarter for the mellow-golden flashy luster and the '95-O for the neat amber color tone interspersed throughout among the devices. Wow.

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's beautiful!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The first 58 09 half above is stunning. Congrats to the owner.
    Milo: Glad to have you along. Nice smaller show, about 40-50 tables normally. Weather permitting we hope to see Vern also.
    The discussion my post began last night has been enlightening. Fun to see the various collectors views of what is important to them. Certainly proof a coin is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it. The only person that needs to be satisfied with the purchase is the buyer. Now back to the hunt.
    Jim

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2016 9:09PM

    In addition to the '05-P quarter, I picked up Jeff's '94-O. Jeff, I finally got to open the package today and noticed there was more color on the coin than what I got out of the pic... that is a good thing! I ended up showing it to another collector friend of mine today and he commented on the stong strike and quality seen in the piece. Very pleased! Thanks so much.

    • T

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Milo, Good Will Hunting? on "tomfoolery"

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • paesanpaesan Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for all the compliments on the 1900-O half. My old friend Scott was nice enough to offer it to me when he decided to part with collecting.

    More coins, less government.
  • paesanpaesan Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What happened to the signature lines that used to be on our posts?

    More coins, less government.
  • barberkeysbarberkeys Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of nice '09-P halves posted. So what made that $3700 '09-P a plus grade? Our hosts say "Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade. Subjective, subjective, subjective.

    Tim - What a beautiful, original '05 qtr.

    Paesan - Signature lines? Maybe a short-term glitch.

    Pics for this AM, candidate for a plus? PC58:


    Vern
    l
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
  • barberkeysbarberkeys Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just did a quick count, as of today the PCGS pop for 58+'s is as follows:

    Barber dimes - 5
    Barber qtrs - 17
    Barber halves - 59.

    It will be interesting to see how fast that count increases, with the '09-P half auction result.

    Vern
    l
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pasaen,Mine is there, at least all I have ever had.

    Verne,Did you look at the PCGS picture of that 1909? I have an idea that coin is a blend between the 2 and is a wonderful coin with subtle colorful toning and nice luster.

  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep Vern, that looks like a plus to me as well. It's now doomed.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think Paesan my be referring to the terms under out avatar, like "Collector"," Name Your Title", etc. They're no more. We're now all equals. One big happy family.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sedulous said:
    In addition to the '05-P quarter, I picked up Jeff's '94-O. Jeff, I finally got to open the package today and noticed there was more color on the coin than what I got out of the pic... that is a good thing! I ended up showing it to another collector friend of mine today and he commented on the stong strike and quality seen in the piece. Very pleased! Thanks so much.

    • T

    When I take photos to sell coins I back down the color a bit. I've found that different monitors display differently and I want to reduce the chances of getting a return. As Darrell always says it's far better for the coin in hand to look better than the photo when selling on the internet.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jeff, Well you certainly do a great job, I think your pictures are fabulous and the actual coin just as nice. Thanks again!

    • T

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • barberkeysbarberkeys Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Darrell - Yes, I looked at the PCGS Tru-View picture of the '09-P. It showed a lot more life than the HA pics. But still, why it's a plus as opposed to others is a mystery.

    Also, if "Plus Grades" exhibit exceptional eye appeal for the grade and constitute the top 30% of the coins in the grade, then there ought to be about 14 '09-P's in 58+. As Ricky Ricardo says "Lucy (PCGS), you got some 'splanin' to do."

    Pics for this AM, another 58 plus candidate, formerly in Doug's #1 set:


    Vern
    l
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beautiful rainbow colors on that one Verm. I can hear MFH drooling from Tampa.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Verne...That is not a True-View picture! Secure Plus pictures are more akin to the crap pictures NGC takes.

    If PCGS's definition of a + grade is the top 30% I feel screwed and insulted by PCGS! I would wager 90% of the 58's in my set would fall in the top 10%. Of course I am biased but really...top 30%! Many of my coins have been replaced several times for more eye appealing coins!

  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2016 11:15AM

    @JeffMTampa said:
    Beautiful rainbow colors on that one Verm. I can hear MFH drooling from Tampa.

    LOL...I certainly was drooling !!

    Guess, I'll have to live with what I've got:

    photo 1907-O Quarter PCGS 58 CAC_zpsapquuyzl.jpg

    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I for one would be interested in understanding how they determine a Plus grade versus all the other 58's. Does this mean that they choose based on looking at older pictures then decide from that to give a coin a plus grade?

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • paesanpaesan Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Below my posts would appear the phrase "more coins, less government." Now it doesn't show.

    More coins, less government.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @paesan said:
    Below my posts would appear the phrase "more coins, less government." Now it doesn't show.

    I see it Lenny!

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see it, too, though I doubt the second half of the statement is likely to occur no matter who controls whatever level of government. :#

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • LogPotatoLogPotato Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭✭

    @paesan said:
    Below my posts would appear the phrase "more coins, less government." Now it doesn't show.

    Maybe it's because you are on your mobile device? Signatures don't show on my phone, but do on my PC.

  • mrkbrown87mrkbrown87 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    @LogPotato said:

    @paesan said:
    Below my posts would appear the phrase "more coins, less government." Now it doesn't show.

    Maybe it's because you are on your mobile device? Signatures don't show on my phone, but do on my PC.

    I don't see signature on my phone either.

    I have been looking for a + graded coin and found a common dates quarter in 55 as I'm sure most have seen it. They are asking 58 or above money for it. I just couldn't justify within myself for a 55+ with average eye appeal.

    Doug- jeepers that's a beautiful quarter.
    Vern- way to capture the candy that baby is dripping

    Mark Brown

    Hoard the keys
  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LogPotato said:

    @paesan said:
    Below my posts would appear the phrase "more coins, less government." Now it doesn't show.

    Maybe it's because you are on your mobile device? Signatures don't show on my phone, but do on my PC.

    Justin, Same situation on my end. Below-the-Post quote does not show on my Smart Phone but does show on the PC.

    I have been looking for a + graded coin

    Mark, I keep looking for a + graded common date coin worth $3700 in MY collection but I can't see it (wink)

    All, a re-ask for your insight... how does our hosts choose a + grade in comparison to other specimens? They obviously can't have all the other graded specimens in front of them at the same time... do they have to rely on the pictures they took from past specimens to visually compare? what do you think their method is?

    • T

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • barberkeysbarberkeys Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Darrell - I didn't realize that Secure Plus and Tru-View pictures weren't done by the same guy(s), with the same set-up. Learn something new every day. As far as our host's definition of plus grades (being the top 30%), there's no way they can be following that. I can't imagine why they'd put that on their web site.

    Tim - IMO, they determine plus grades they same way they determine all grades, based on the experience and likes/dislikes of the grader who happens to look at that submission. (More than one grader if the submission happens to be expensive).

    Pics for this AM, recently graded from Dan's collection, both PC53:




    Vern
    l
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
  • JeffMTampaJeffMTampa Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just received my grades from my latest PCGS submission and received a "+" grade!!! :):D<3

    Unfortunately it was for a '39 D Mercury Dime I ran across in a stash a couple of months back. It graded MS 66+ FB. Yawn.

    I love them Barber Halves.....
  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hopes! then the let down... ughh. Mercs too? well diversified!

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • DrPeteDrPete Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭

    Hey, I just got promoted to "veteran" on this thread. Anybody know what that means?

    Dr. Pete
  • mrkbrown87mrkbrown87 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭

    Dr.Pete maybe because you have been a part of the thread for a long time and it's ur first visit in a while or something. Welcome sir

    Mark Brown

    Hoard the keys
  • DrPeteDrPete Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭

    That may be right. I am still interested in Barber coins, but collecting them is on hold at the moment. I've been having fun buying some gold coins, and have a small run of St. Gaudens and Liberty $20's. No plan to complete either.

    Dr. Pete
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DrPete said:
    That may be right. I am still interested in Barber coins, but collecting them is on hold at the moment. I've been having fun buying some gold coins, and have a small run of St. Gaudens and Liberty $20's. No plan to complete either.

    Better not snooze too long on dem Barbers! There are plenty out there but the really nice ones seem to be in short supply!

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One year ago in late November, I noticed an auction of a three coin 1896 Barber quarter set. The 1896-S in the set, from what I can see, is not one of the coins originating from the San Francisco Mint in 1896 but it sure looks good sitting in this holder and is a bit deceiving. I downloaded the images for my personal reference and thought I would present them here for discussion:

    Here is another close-up image. If you go to the BCCS site (http://www.barbercoins.org/BQ1896S.shtml) on authenticating the 1896-S, what gave it away to me were the relationship of the denticles to the date on the obverse...

    Can you see it as fake? What other things do you notice?

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

  • seduloussedulous Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doug, the 1907-O is phenomenal! with the rainbow colors on the obverse - thanks Vern for sharing the picture. Also Dan's collection of the '95 and '97-S dimes have some very nice tone to the specimens!

    Dr. Pete, Those large gold double eagles are a beauty to behold side-by-side I bet. If the economy continues to show improvement into 2017 and metals prices retreat some more, there might even be some good buys in the future. Over the past couple of days, I re-read Kagin's old book from the 1980's "Personal Guide to Rare Coin Investments" and market volatility in relation to the ups and downs in the economy.

    • T

    A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.

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