Are You Seeing Dealers Offering Lower Prices In This "Down" Market?

stman · February 16, 2016 9:29AM

I'm just not seeing it on some of the dealers sites I check. I do know for a fact some will offer less on your coins, yet still charge the same as before. Then they say no nice coins out there, or they can't find any. No dealer bash here just an observation in my real world.

What say you?

jcping · February 16, 2016 9:34AM

Dealers' retail sites, usually, they run two years behind reality.
Dealers' auction site, bloody now

CommemKing · February 16, 2016 9:34AM

Nope. Still low balling when buying and selling high. I think dealers are doing well right now.

gsa1fan · February 16, 2016 9:35AM

Safe prices for them so far, nothing to insulting. Know your market and coins as in any "times" Good Stuff sells

Shortgapbob · February 16, 2016 9:36AM

We are continually adjusting our prices and buying material at current market levels to offer at the the levels today that are lower in some areas than they were 2-4 years ago.

Velocity is pretty good right now if your pricing is realistic.

jcping · February 16, 2016 9:37AM

Another thought, if PCGS price guide remains high, what's incentive for dealers to lower their asking prices

ShadyDave · February 16, 2016 9:42AM

I have been "asking questions" on the few dealer sites I browse and if I find anything I like I have been "offering" ~10% lower than their posted price where I see fit. I also do this on eBay and most sellers (75%) over the past 3 months have been willing to accept or counter my REASONABLE offer.

joebb21 · February 16, 2016 9:57AM

Originally posted by: Shortgapbob
We are continually adjusting our prices and buying material at current market levels to offer at the the levels today that are lower in some areas than they were 2-4 years ago.

Velocity is pretty good right now if your pricing is realistic.

Agreed- for those dealers who have adjusted to the knew levels and buy and sell within them-they are doing ok. Those that are holding out and dont want to lose on coins are in trouble.

CircOnly · February 16, 2016 9:57AM

I've seen a couple dealers steadfast with their pricing, and I have seen at least one drop their prices in the area that I collect. I am sure the dealer that dropped their prices dropped their buy prices as well. I am happy, I bought a coin from them that was probably cheaper by about $80 than it was 3 years ago. ~$200 coin.

mercurydimeguy · February 16, 2016 9:59AM

Not at all, in fact they are charging more???

Maybe since they are selling less they want to charge more?

I am surprised to be honest, but then again the kind of coins I look for are not readily available most of the time.

jdimmick · February 16, 2016 10:00AM

I have noticed buying prices being quoted by dealers are backing up considerably on a majority of stuff. They comment how the market is, and whether or not they will be able to get a bite at current levels if they offer me X.
Seem to be less eager to offer strong, sometimes even fair as of late. Also , several want to take or offer consignment services instead on an outright purchase offer.

Its market, I been dealing with the same folks for 8+ years, so trust me I know.

Bochiman · February 16, 2016 10:19AM

I haven't offered to sell anything to a dealer, so can't comment on that side of the house.

On the buying...I have NOT noticed lower prices. What I HAVE noticed is that some dealers will decline a (what I consider) fair offer price but then have that piece sit on their website for MONTHS.

These dealers want their margin no matter what. 20% (or whatever) even if the carrying costs go on for months.

A few other dealers have been more reasonable and I have purchased a coin or two (they made above what they paid, and I didn't feel I got my butt ripped on the deal).

cladking · February 16, 2016 10:25AM

Most dealers don't lower their prices much in down markets. They end up wholesaling more coins and making money in other areas than retail.

CircOnly · February 16, 2016 10:55AM

One other thing I noticed, is some dealers have not adjusted their ask prices, but their buy prices have plummeted.

ms70 · February 16, 2016 10:56AM

The other day I made a pretty low ebay offer on a PCGS coin and was pretty surprised it got accepted right off the bat.

stman · February 16, 2016 11:06AM

Originally posted by: cladking

Most dealers don't lower their prices much in down markets. They end up wholesaling more coins and making money in other areas than retail.

So am I hearing they really don't want to give us a coin at market...... and would rather wholesale?

I know in general it's easier for most dealers to deal within themselves. Heck, it's easier for me to sell to a dealer than the BST...... and for more money as well.

Must be the same ones that press those sticky Corrugated Safety Mailers together that we can hardly peel apart. I think they do it for spite so we can't reuse them. Heh

pennyannie · February 16, 2016 11:12AM

I asked a local dealer what he would pay on bags of 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. I was quoted 600 bucks per bag, I ask for clairification he was quoting on 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. He said he was. I said thanks and turned toward the door. He acted surprised I was not jumping on it. I did not say anything other than thanks as I walked out the door.

TopographicOceans · February 16, 2016 11:21AM

A down market doesn't change what a dealer paid for a coin.

If they don't need the cash, why not hold on to it until better times return?

bestday · February 16, 2016 11:33AM

Originally posted by: CommemKing
Nope. Still low balling when buying and selling high. I think dealers are doing well right now.

Right on the money ... saw my dealer friend low ball a raw GSA .. a nearly mark free 85CC.. bad mouthed 2 areas toning areas on obverse saying it was a 63 .. LOL clean cheek obverse !!!

brg5658 · February 16, 2016 11:43AM

Originally posted by: pennyannie

I asked a local dealer what he would pay on bags of 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. I was quoted 600 bucks per bag, I ask for clairification he was quoting on 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. He said he was. I said thanks and turned toward the door. He acted surprised I was not jumping on it. I did not say anything other than thanks as I walked out the door.

I don't think I'd be returning to that local dealer...ever.

ebaybuyer · February 16, 2016 12:10PM

6x face is a bit light, then again I had a few people offer me 5x face for silver proof sets on the BST, this was as recently as last fall

Cougar1978 · February 16, 2016 12:36PM

If a dealer has income from other sources there is no incentive to lower prices, taking a loss. Or if forced to sell for cash flow some may prune inventory and blow it out in an ebay auction for cash flow / repositioning. Keeper coins, I will sit on them for life if I can not sell them for a profit now. I have retailed conis quickly which I thought I would be holding a long time and vice versa. If I have a nice slabbed AU Morgan Dollar in an auction say at 18.95 opening bid (and no bids say a day before auction close) I may just pull it from the auction and throw it back in the store at retail if no action and other items I do not care as much about will sell.

A horrible market you just have to wait it out. A friend, we will call him Jim setting up at gun shows (tough to get retail at coin shows) told me about Dealer A competing with him bc his prices were lower usually close to bid. Jim was at retail or cost + and simply could not compete with dealer A the other coin dealer setting up at the gun shows. Did Jim fold up his tent or lower his prices - no. He waited dealer A out until he has sold out and then Jim's business picked up and he was getting good retail money. I have had shows where retail picked up when some of them left on Saturday night and I had all day Sunday to retail plus buy deals. If I have coin where I am sure its the only one in the room I am either going to make money on it or else take it home.

stman · February 16, 2016 1:26PM

Keeper coins, I will sit on them for life if I can not sell them for a profit now.

Enjoy! To be clear the intent of my post was not to ask why dealers won't take a loss on coins. I was mainly getting at what I see a fair amount of time is....... they buy at lower prices now but still charge the same prices when the market was better.

I couldn't care less, but it gets old hearing them say they can't find any coins when they're not willing to really pay for them.Yet charge older high retail + prices. Or go by an auction from way back. BTW, Ebay had nothing to do with this either.

Gazes · February 16, 2016 3:21PM

If dealers will only buy for a lot less and keep the same sell price ---wouldn't the answer be to buy at auction where the prices should reflect the actual market ?

gsa1fan · February 16, 2016 4:42PM

Originally posted by: Gazes
If dealers will only buy for a lot less and keep the same sell price ---wouldn't the answer be to buy at auction where the prices should reflect the actual market ?

Should be but now I hear it is a common practice for auction house bidding up the coin.
I suspected~shilling~ but was not aware it was common knowledge to most . 17.5% juice is not enough

VanHalen · February 16, 2016 9:21PM

No but I've been getting a heck of a lot more e-mails this winter.

ricko · February 16, 2016 10:14PM

No lower prices....market has not gone down far enough or for long enough. Cheers, RickO

Unknown · February 16, 2016 10:21PM

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TwoSides2aCoin · February 16, 2016 11:04PM

I typically deal with negotiators. They are few and far between. C'est la vie.

BillJones · February 16, 2016 11:32PM

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans
A down market doesn't change what a dealer paid for a coin.

If they don't need the cash, why not hold on to it until better times return?

Because sometimes it's better to get your money out of loser and buy something productive that will give you a gross margin. My philosophy centered around inventory turnover. I sold coins for moderate mark-ups, then turned the money over to something else. It was win for the collector because he got the coin for closer to my cost than some other dealers, and I flipped my money over as much as four times a year.

Some dealers sit on stuff forever. They hold out for the absolutely highest price they can get and don't care if a coin sits in inventory for years. To me that's not a great way to do business. You run the risk of tuning off the customer when he pays the high price and realizes later that he's been had, and you have the same old stale inventory. Neither of these situations encourages people to come to your table at the shows.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 16, 2016 11:43PM

A down market causes economic woes. One of the very components which drives it.

stman · February 17, 2016 3:44AM

So if the coin is right and the price is fair, stop arguing and just buy it.

Not sure if you are talking to me personally. If you are you have taken me completely wrong. I usually have coins sent to me on approval. I either pass or play.But first I try and be pretty darn sure it's for me. So I might ask a question if I feel it's needed.

Ones I know usually discount the invoice upon arrival of the coin. So we're all not the same out there. It's all good though,

bestday · February 17, 2016 4:43AM

B&Ms are hurting .. I visited one today near Chicago ... dead quiet .. couple of years ago ,there were 5 or 6 employees in the store .. now just one...

PTVETTER · February 17, 2016 5:15AM

I think the $600 offer was too low but If you think it was worth $1200 you are equally wrong.

Just letting the figures speak for themselves.

a second question were these coin like new or well worn out. If the latter maybe $600. wasn't a bad offer

Bayard1908 · February 17, 2016 5:25AM

Originally posted by: PTVETTER

I think the $600 offer was too low but If you think it was worth $1200 you are equally wrong.

Just letting the figures speak for themselves.

a second question were these coin like new or well worn out. If the latter maybe $600. wasn't a bad offer

$600 is attempted theft, not a bad offer.

Justacommeman · February 17, 2016 5:26AM

Yes.

mark

PTVETTER · February 17, 2016 5:59AM

For those that need their eyes opened try this

Weight 50 slick barber coins the same value such as dimes, quarters, or halves record the weight.

Now weight 50 coins dated 1964 the same way, you can see the difference and therefore a different price.

keets · February 17, 2016 6:48AM

it's the same strategy the gas companies use --- when oil prices rise, the gasoline already in the system rises. when oil prices fall, the gasoline already in the system stays at the same price till it gets absorbed.

Broadstruck · February 17, 2016 7:01AM

No as I'm not seeing a down market in errors or exonumia.

I would love to buy Hard Times Tokens at pre 2008 levels, but it seems those days are gone.

thisnamztaken · February 17, 2016 3:50PM

As usual, a coin (or any collectible) is currently only worth as much as another person is willing to pay for it, unless one of the two parties is patient enough and can afford to play the waiting game.

gsa1fan · February 17, 2016 9:49PM

Originally posted by: thisnamztaken
As usual, a coin (or any collectible) is currently only worth as much as another person is willing to pay for it, unless one of the two parties is patient enough and can afford to play the waiting game.

My mentor taught me a very valuble lesson. "Son there are tons of coins out there. Let them come to you" ~ patience

rkfish · February 17, 2016 9:58PM

Originally posted by: pennyannie
I asked a local dealer what he would pay on bags of 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. I was quoted 600 bucks per bag, I ask for clairification he was quoting on 100 dollar face 90 percent silver. He said he was. I said thanks and turned toward the door. He acted surprised I was not jumping on it. I did not say anything other than thanks as I walked out the door.

I don't think I'd be returning to that local dealer...ever.

Me neither......as long as it was vg or better (and not cull material) we would currently pay $1050

291fifth · February 17, 2016 9:59PM

Very few US coins are rare or even scarce. Take your time and refuse to get drawn in by hype. If in doubt, keep your money in your wallet.

Gazes · February 18, 2016 9:09AM

So there is a coin in the legend auction in a series I collect (not a popular series). The coin is nice but not unique. Would be a nice addition (pcgs and cac). After prebidding the price is now higher than the last two auctions for this coin. I decided not to bid. If the market was average I probably would but knowing the market is weak I just can't justify bidding a higher price for thie same

Grade got for two auctions in the last 15 months. What I'm saying is that market conditions is impacting my bidding on the coin irrespective of the coin itself.

Elcontador · February 18, 2016 10:09AM

I bought a coin at Long Beach from a dealer who priced it right. Went onto Coinfacts and spoke with my Heritage rep about it. Coin was nice for the grade and priced slightly below recent auction archive pricing. I saw several others with similar specks, but passed, as I made a counter-offer on a more expensive coin (where the dealer would have to get back to me in 2-3 weeks) and wanted to make sure I had available funds.

Walkerfan · February 18, 2016 11:36AM

It depends on the dealer.

Some are getting it right, while others continue to sell high but are now buying, at even lower levels than before, which is unethical IMHO.

Intelligent collectors who are in tune with the market aren't getting fooled by these individuals.

The other thing to remember is that it depends upon the series and the dates, too.

Some of these issues are actually doing BETTER than before price-wise, while others have softened.

So it is a complex issue with a few things to keep in mind.

Pokermandude · February 18, 2016 1:10PM

Originally posted by: WalkerfanSome are getting it right, while others continue to sell high but are now buying, at even lower levels than before, which is unethical IMHO.

That's not a question of ethics, that's called a free market. If someone is willing to buy it at a certain price, then that is it's value.

bidask · February 18, 2016 2:53PM

I'm not seeing it cause I'm not looking.

Boosibri · February 18, 2016 5:42PM

People bent in finding fault with dealers in general seem to find it wherever they choose to look.

Justacommeman · February 18, 2016 7:06PM

Originally posted by: Boosibri

People bent in finding fault with dealers in general seem to find it wherever they choose to look.

Ain't that the truth. Want to grab coffee? I'm in your neiborhood

..... London

mark

keets · February 18, 2016 7:52PM

People bent in finding fault with dealers in general seem to find it wherever they choose to look.

that doesn't appear to be the case here as laid out by the OP. if I understand him correctly, some dealers are speaking out of both sides of their mouths: claiming that things are slow to justify buy prices and switching to all-is-well when selling. it isn't a matter of ethics as some think, just a bit disingenuous.

I believe in karma so it doesn't bother me.

Are You Seeing Dealers Offering Lower Prices In This "Down" Market?

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