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It seems the small coins tone more than large coins

This is one of more colorful coins and is it me or do the smaller coins pick up the best color?

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    BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭
    Besides lousy pics I can't seem to get posts correct since that above was 4 paragraphs long and several other pics in it


    [URL=http://s306.photobucket.com/user/bigal2749/media/012dc108-941f-46d2-a579-af788c587332_zpsspqsiy1u.jpg.html]image[/URL]
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    mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭✭
    Smaller surface area...
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BIGAL2749

    is it me or do the smaller coins pick up the best color?




    Generally, I think Morgans pick up the best color, but that's just me. There are other good candidates but those tend to have fewer coins with spectacular color.
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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Zoins

    Originally posted by: BIGAL2749

    is it me or do the smaller coins pick up the best color?




    Generally, I think Morgans pick up the best color, but that's just me. There are other good candidates but those tend to have fewer coins with spectacular color.




    Morgans and capped bust halves.

    Both vault reserve types held in bags and not circulated for decades.





    Small coins most likely stuck in drawers unnoticed for decades also.



    Leaving the "trade" coins exposed to the common oaf buying things. image
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    TomBTomB Posts: 23,232 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My opinion is that quite a bit of this dynamic has to do with how coins are stored.



    If we assume that different denominations were stored in similar albums or holders that restrict airflow to a certain extent then we can use the size measurements of coins to determine the volume of the column of ambient air that sits on top of either side of a coin within its holder or album slot. This volume might be divided by the exposed surface area of the coin (ignoring raised design elements, which should be similar for similar designs) to give a ratio of the volume air to surface area coin where the toning reaction might take place. Doing this yields a greater volume of air for half-dimes, a lesser amount for dimes, still less for quarters and even less for half dollars.



    Additionally, coins might have contaminants leach out of the sides of the holder and migrate toward the center of the coin, which would feed the toning process. A smaller coin might have this happen more readily than a larger coin, likely using the same reasoning as above.



    This isn't perfect by any means, but it can give an idea as to why smaller coins tend to tone more deeply than larger coins.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check out the brain on Tom
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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Small coins most likely stuck in drawers unnoticed for decades also.




    My mind was in another place when I read this portion. image

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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure 220 years also had a lot to do with it. I would guess a silver dollar would get colour in that amount of time too. And only 15 seconds to dip it all off.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Zoins
    Originally posted by: BIGAL2749

    is it me or do the smaller coins pick up the best color?




    Generally, I think Morgans pick up the best color, but that's just me. There are other good candidates but those tend to have fewer coins with spectacular color.


    A lot of Morgan Dollars have gotten help with their toning over the years. The "help" has quite often not come directly from Mother Nature. There is a financial incentive for this activity.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: LanLord
    I'm sure 220 years also had a lot to do with it. I would guess a silver dollar would get colour in that amount of time too. And only 15 seconds to dip it all off.


    As well as dipping without the proper rinse, and the fact that dipping exposes "virgin metal" which is more likely to tone than metal that is protected by patina.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice 16 star obverse 1797 half dime!
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i just want to say, i like that coin...
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When it comes to originally wrapped/contained US proof and mint sets (1859-1958) it would seem that the silver coins often tone the same way. I'd say it's a tie.



    The amount of toning and how attractive it is comes down to



    1. A clean and pure surface, either day one from the mint or just dipped.

    2. Placing the coin(s) in a pro-toning environment.



    Not all coins come from the US mint as reactive as the next. The acid rinse on the Peace Dollars made them far less susceptible to toning attractively than say Walkers, Mercs, and SLQ's of the same era. Sometimes the holders help the bigger coins. Consider the early NGC slabs with the highly reactive label insert. The smaller coins in those holders would be further away from the sulfur-laden toning source than a large coin. Based on the large numbers of monster toned proof Barber halves, Morgan dollars, and Franklin halves coming out of US proof/mint sets....there doesn't appear to be an obvious advantage to being smaller. It's easier to accidentally fingerprint or thumb the entire surface of a half dime vs. seated dollar. So in that respect toning might be easier to come by on "handled" specimens of smaller coins.



    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's just been historically more tempting to dip large coins than small ones. For Seated coins, % Dipped Dollars > % Dipped halves > % Dipped quarters > % Dipped Dimes > % Dipped Half Dimes.



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    TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    There is less surface area, so it would require less contaminants in order to tone.
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    AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,375 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm happy about that image

    image
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
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    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blast white silver and red copper on coins over 100 YO can certainly have Questionable Color designation. TPG's will always provide an expert opionion. But their opinion is not always correct, it is just an opinion. And is not an expert opinion better than a biased dealer's advice?



    OINK
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    LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    Meh. A few more decades and there will be no such thing as 'expert opinions.' All the expert dealers will have passed on - may they RIP - and the only dealers left will be kids who grew up in a world of slabs and Wikipedia. Talking about my son's generation. He loves to read but most kids don't. Nobody dealing will have been alive during the golden era of numismatics. Think about it ... I'm being serious ... the time when 'modern coinage' is the only thing living dealers and collectors can remember isn't far away. The stories of yesteryear, and the practical knowledge about dips and errors and toning and history will fade quickly.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TomB...your background (educational field) is showing.... and an excellent presentation...

    Cheers, RickO

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