What is happening at the Baltimore show?

Yorkshireman · November 5, 2015 10:46AM

Brian Cushing of Dick Osburn Rare Coins wrote in his show blog that the bourse was very slow.
He actually mentioned hearing the figurative crickets.

If you were there today, please describe your experience.

I am a coin show junkie!!

Broadstruck · November 5, 2015 11:01AM

I'm pretty sure this wild blast of warm weather is going to effect the show.

amwldcoin · November 5, 2015 11:33AM

May not be coming back! The coin show scene has really been depressed. I have cut 60% of the shows I used to do due to this. Ebay has taken over my business. The last 2 years my sales have been 2/3's ebay vrs. 1/3 shows. Factoring in the loss of volumne ebay is way,WAY cheaper venue wise to sell on vrs. shows. The shows I continued doing that sales were down last year was due to being able to buy some descent stuff from the public. That has also disappeared this year.

This is the 1st Baltimore show in the over 15 years I have attended that I did absolutely nothing the 1st day. I did have wonderful conversations and show and tell with many. I hope things pick up Friday and Saturday or I will write Baltimore off my show list.

I heard mixed reviews from other dealers but my feeling is all were having off sales.

bestday · November 5, 2015 11:50AM

Originally posted by: Broadstruck
I'm pretty sure this wild blast of warm weather is going to effect the show.

Don't kid yourself.. out of control crime in Baltimore .. would you carry valuable coins ????

FredF · November 5, 2015 11:53AM

The show is in a perfectly safe/fine part of the city. It's got the Orioles and Ravens stadiums, Inner Harbor, nice hotels, nice residential.

ambro51 · November 5, 2015 12:13PM

...too much work.

bidask · November 5, 2015 1:10PM

Well, was there at least a lot of wholesale going on among dealers ?

AnkurJ · November 5, 2015 1:23PM

With so much material available at auctions, shows will suffer. The market being slow doesn't help much either.

JBatDavidLawrence · November 5, 2015 1:38PM

We actually wrote a live update from the show this morning that I've tried to link below (I hope it works!)

We have been in Baltimore since Tuesday, participating in a pre-show trading room, and meeting with some of our dealer contacts. We found that Wednesday was a really productive day buying and selling. While we're always aiming to buy more than we sell at shows, we were pleasantly surprised by the amount of wholesale sales. Today (Thursday) we actually found ourselves showing coins quite frequently to dealers and collectors. In fact, it was much more productive than the last 2 Baltimore shows. We're certainly not at the level of market participation as we were in 2007, but there's definite improvement in our eyes. Friday will be far more telling as things typically slow down a bit before the weekend.

Coins We Love: Show Update

blu62vette · November 5, 2015 8:59PM

Originally posted by: bestday

Originally posted by: Broadstruck
I'm pretty sure this wild blast of warm weather is going to effect the show.

Don't kid yourself.. out of control crime in Baltimore .. would you carry valuable coins ????

This does not look to be a factor. The city has the same feel as the last time I was here from my dealer perspective.

Traffic seems slower. Thinking about it we did not open the cases much yesterday, but when we did people bought multiple coins. So few sales, but good ones. Mainly wholesale on the sales.

Coinosaurus · November 5, 2015 9:45PM

Gerry Fortin reported a bang up day here -- Gerry Fortin daily blog

Boosibri · November 5, 2015 9:48PM

Wow, Gerry did have a great day!

Yorkshireman · November 5, 2015 10:01PM

Originally posted by: Coinosaurus
Gerry Fortin reported a bang up day here -- Gerry Fortin daily blog

He did indeed have a great day!

ms70 · November 5, 2015 10:05PM

Originally posted by: Coinosaurus

Gerry Fortin reported a bang up day here -- Gerry Fortin daily blog

Are we sure he was at the same show? LOL..

ianrussell · November 5, 2015 10:29PM

It was definitely quieter yesterday than usual, but still business to be done - it gave me extra time to spend with people. I saw a couple of people I hadn't seen in a couple of years at shows.

Expecting it to be busier today.

- Ian

TwoSides2aCoin · November 5, 2015 11:28PM

I know if I were there, I'd be buying better material. A few of my local competitors are there doing just that. I won't name names and I don't even look at them as "competition" in this field. More like "friends in the inner circle"

Doing what coin geeks do.

ricko · November 6, 2015 1:19AM

Wow.... talk about mixed messages.... well, we will see what the weekend brings.

Cheers, RickO

JBatDavidLawrence · November 6, 2015 2:39AM

Interestingly, I've felt safer at this Baltimore show than I have in 20 years. There is better lighting in front of the convention center and far less people hanging around in the evenings. I've walked to my hotel at night a few times and commented on how nice the weather and how "safe" I have felt outside in the evenings.

Booger9989 · November 6, 2015 3:26AM

Originally posted by: bestday

Originally posted by: Broadstruck
I'm pretty sure this wild blast of warm weather is going to effect the show.

Don't kid yourself.. out of control crime in Baltimore .. would you carry valuable coins ????

Some people are just scared of the shadow they cast. I have been to Baltimore 3 times in the last 2 weeks and 2 of the times was late night in the harbor area. The wife and I even had a great walk in the warm weather at 1 am after dinner and a movie. Did not have one issue except for the guy who asked for some spare change but when I said no he kept on walking. Yes the crime rate is up BUT if you look it is not in the AREA of the show. Please understand that is someone is going to make you a victim it don't matter if its in Baltimore or Beverly hills, it will take place anywhere.

DDR · November 6, 2015 10:19AM

Show seemed fairly busy to me Friday morning. And I certainly felt safe walking over the couple of blocks from where I parked.

Justacommeman · November 6, 2015 10:22AM

Originally posted by: Booger9989

Originally posted by: bestday

Originally posted by: Broadstruck

I'm pretty sure this wild blast of warm weather is going to effect the show.

Don't kid yourself.. out of control crime in Baltimore .. would you carry valuable coins ????

Some people are just scared of the shadow they cast. I have been to Baltimore 3 times in the last 2 weeks and 2 of the times was late night in the harbor area. The wife and I even had a great walk in the warm weather at 1 am after dinner and a movie. Did not have one issue except for the guy who asked for some spare change but when I said no he kept on walking. Yes the crime rate is up BUT if you look it is not in the AREA of the show. Please understand that is someone is going to make you a victim it don't matter if its in Baltimore or Beverly hills, it will take place anywhere.

Boom! Knocked it out of the park.......mark

ScarsdaleCoin · November 6, 2015 10:37AM

Preview Message

Homeless are back and I find it uncomftable being pan handled in front of "safe" convention center. With that said there are some great coins out on the bourse to be bought. Many dealers are looking to make deals and I had a great run of quick buys and sales. Even with my new all the way out in left field table 257. If you are around please stop bye and see some great coins and some great candy free if you know the secret word. Good seeing so many forum members this time around.

RichieURich · November 6, 2015 11:31AM

Today we had the third-highest sales in the history of our company. Yesterday was busy too but not like today. Show has been great for us!

MidLifeCrisis · November 6, 2015 11:36AM

I'm not there, unfortunately...but I suspect it's business as usual. Some dealers will have great shows; some will not. Same for collectors.

And...same as it ever was.

Shortgapbob · November 6, 2015 12:49PM

The show and area around the convention center feels perfectly safe.

The market is selective at present, especially in certain areas, but there has been activity in the room the past two days. No records, but solid sales both wholesale and retail.

MidLifeCrisis · November 6, 2015 1:11PM

Originally posted by: Shortgapbob

The market is selective at present, especially in certain areas

When has this ever NOT been the case?

PerryHall · November 6, 2015 5:56PM

Originally posted by: ScarsdaleCoin

Preview Message

Homeless are back and I find it uncomftable being pan handled in front of "safe" convention center. With that said there are some great coins out on the bourse to be bought. Many dealers are looking to make deals and I had a great run of quick buys and sales. Even with my new all the way out in left field table 257. If you are around please stop bye and see some great coins and some great candy free if you know the secret word. Good seeing so many forum members this time around.

Okay. So, what's the secret word?

DontTellTheWife · November 7, 2015 12:20AM

First time in Baltimore for me. Felt very safe. Hotel only a couple of blocks away. Like any show , some guys are gonna do great, others, not so much. Some of the guys were reasonable , many others not so reasonable. Sure , there was some great stuff, but not nearly what I expected. And, I think they tend to forget the competition in the room.

TPRC · November 7, 2015 1:00AM

I was there most of the day Friday, and things looked pretty brisk. I didn't plan on spending, and just needed to see a few dealers and to drop off some coins for grading. I saw Andy Lustig, who looked to be very busy at David Perkin's table with the big dollar set (which looks a lot smaller now), and the dealers I spoke to generally reported good to excellent sales. I bought a bust half from Dave Kahn, and a couple of ancients from Andy Singer. I would have liked to spend more time and money, but ran out of both. I felt safe! Overall, it was a terrific day and pretty consistent with normal fall Baltimore shows.

I had not purchased a bust half in a while, and I have the variety, 1827 O-146, curl base 2, but the truth is I didn't want to pass this one up.

Frozenink · November 7, 2015 5:54AM

Here is my Baltimore show report. It was the worst that I have ever attended. I had a couple of hours on Thursday to hit the show. Since I had little time I only mad it through a third of the floor. I cleared Saturday afternoon for the show. I arrived at 1:30 and I was almost run over by the long line of dealers leaving. Some isles had no dealers set up. The show ran until 6pm but less than half of the dealers stayed past 3 when I left.

I was disappointed to have a pocket full of cash and not buy one coin at the show. I guess I will stick to the FUN shows.

Gary

Bigpoppas · November 7, 2015 8:54AM

Originally posted by: Frozenink
Here is my Baltimore show report. It was the worst that I have ever attended. I had a couple of hours on Thursday to hit the show. Since I had little time I only mad it through a third of the floor. I cleared Saturday afternoon for the show. I arrived at 1:30 and I was almost run over by the long line of dealers leaving. Some isles had no dealers set up. The show ran until 6pm but less than half of the dealers stayed past 3 when I left.

I was disappointed to have a pocket full of cash and not buy one coin at the show. I guess I will stick to the FUN shows.

Gary

Gary, I agree that it is unacceptable for dealers to leave a show early unless in the case of an emergency or travel arrangements that can't be avoided .
I especially think it is even a bigger problem if admission is charged to the attendee ..
This doesn't go for just coin shows, but any show ..
It's like a store posting hours on their door and just leaving 3 hours early because it was a slow day ..
Unacceptable !!

amwldcoin · November 7, 2015 11:45AM

Well, Happy to report Saturday turned it around for me! Had a good day today! Very unusual show sequence for me! I'll be back for the next show!

Usually my best day is Thursday,Friday is dead,and Saturday in the middle. This show was 0 Thursday, a little Friday, and made up lost ground on Saturday!

RichieURich · November 7, 2015 2:47PM

Originally posted by: DontTellTheWife
First time in Baltimore for me. Felt very safe. Hotel only a couple of blocks away. Like any show , some guys are gonna do great, others, not so much. Some of the guys were reasonable , many others not so reasonable. Sure , there was some great stuff, but not nearly what I expected. And, I think they tend to forget the competition in the room.

Welcome to the Forum, and what a great handle you chose!

Boosibri · November 7, 2015 4:09PM

Why would a dealer be obligated to stay through Saturday/Sunday when the cost of staying is greater than the profits generated. It is only logical to me that the show schedule changes if this is the reality. Some dealers stay and that works for them.

Bigpoppas · November 7, 2015 10:00PM

Originally posted by: Boosibri
Why would a dealer be obligated to stay through Saturday/Sunday when the cost of staying is greater than the profits generated. It is only logical to me that the show schedule changes if this is the reality. Some dealers stay and that works for them.

Yes..The advertised show hours should be changed if this is the norm . You can't have a collector driving even just 45 mins each way to a show that is advertised as 80 dealers only to find that under 10 remain on Sunday .. When dealers are standing around crying that there are no customers then you can consider this to be ONE of the many reasons .

Yorkshireman · November 7, 2015 10:45PM

Originally posted by: Bigpoppas

Originally posted by: Boosibri
Why would a dealer be obligated to stay through Saturday/Sunday when the cost of staying is greater than the profits generated. It is only logical to me that the show schedule changes if this is the reality. Some dealers stay and that works for them.

Yes..The advertised show hours should be changed if this is the norm . You can't have a collector driving even just 45 mins each way to a show that is advertised as 80 dealers only to find that under 10 remain on Sunday .. When dealers are standing around crying that there are no customers then you can consider this to be ONE of the many reasons .

While I am not a dealer and obviously neither are you, you have to put yourself in their place. They are business people. They are there to make a living and a profit not entertain you.

I am sorry you were disappointed. Next time try to go earlier. You would have a better selection. Maybe a coin you wanted would have been available. As regards to FUN, I am there when the doors open and have never been there at the close. I would wager that many dealers have already gone home from there also.

PerryHall · November 7, 2015 10:54PM

If most of the dealers leave on Saturday, why not rent the empty tables to small local dealers and collectors at a very steep discount on Sunday? Not every dealer can afford to pay $1000 for a table. Many collectors who have modest budgets will be attracted to such a show since the smaller dealers and collector dealers will tend to have more affordable coins. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the larger dealers stick around to cherry pick the small dealers and collectors. Just a thought here.

OPA · November 7, 2015 11:44PM

Originally posted by: PerryHall
If most of the dealers leave on Saturday, why not rent the empty tables to small local dealers and collectors at a very steep discount on Sunday? Not every dealer can afford to pay $1000 for a table. Many collectors who have modest budgets will be attracted to such a show since the smaller dealers and collector dealers will tend to have more affordable coins. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the larger dealers stick around to cherry pick the small dealers and collectors. Just a thought here.

And who is going to handle the security aspects and screening of the mom & pop small time "dealers"? I believe there is more involved in just plunking down 1 grand for the benefit of having a table. If not, I'll never attend another show again.

EastonCollection · November 8, 2015 1:10AM

The Baltimore show was fantastic and had a great time for the following reasons-
1- I met several friends that that I usually see once every 2 to 3 years and they were all there - totally unexpectedly - a good time had by all
2- I did lot viewing of the Pogue III - While I may or may not be able to acquire any of them - by viewing those coins is an education in itself. Studying coins at the top helps one understand what great coins look at in lower grades!
3- Purchased a rare die marriage Capped bust dime that has alluded me for several years at a very fair price. Purchased from a fellow collector - that wouldn't have happened if i wasn't at a show.
4- Purchased a capped bust quarter 1818 B-9 in Au55 with great toning and its CAC at a very fair price.
5- Viewed the Miller Bust dollar collection and the Gorman Capped bust dimes at David Perkins table and man oh man its a pleasure seeing all those wonderful coins all in one place. Good luck selling those coins and hope to get 1 or 2 of them in the near future.
6- Went to dinner Friday night with a dealer friend and had an endless amount of hard shell crabs - Baltimore has the best hard shell crabs in the country!
7- Acquired 2 vary very rare coins for my personal collection that has alluded my for over 15 years. Both of those coins are high rarity 7 - when do you go to a coin show and acquire 2 rarity 7 coins on the same day!
8- Spoke to several dealers about several coins that I was thinking about and they gave me their view points and that added alot of knowledge that I was missing.
9 -I missed out on a coin in a recent auction and I had terrible non buyers morse - saw that coin at a dealer's table and bought that coin at $25 more than the auction price realized.
10- Several coins that I bought at the show I showed then to some dealers that they asked me if it was for sale. I didn't sell but I could have made a couple of bucks.
11- Lastly, I read several posts on this message board why collectors they don't attend show anymore - I am puzzled why anyone wouldn't want to go to a show with all those great friends and knowledge all in 1 place?

ScarsdaleCoin · November 8, 2015 2:43AM

Gary, sorry you came late to the show on Sat, but the doors did open at 10am so that would give anyone who seriously wanted to buy at least 5 good hours to view probably 80-90% of the dealers... you also were there on Thur.....so you had several hours there to hunt....

Here is the logic..... and I for one would have gladly stayed later if customers were there but by 3pm the Baltimore bourse was pretty empty except for a few people who each time I asked if I could help them with anything replied no Im just looking not buying anything now...and Im not complaining for I had some nice sales on Sat....

but seriously and Im not putting you down at all for your comments.... just trying to let you see it from the other side of the table that most dealers have pretty long drives or flights and by leaving at 3pm they can do 2 hours in daylight and another 2-4 hours in the dark getting home by evening.... if they stayed til 5pm they would not arrive home til very late in the evening. Those flying have no choice...for example next month when I set up for the Houston show I have to leave early since I am on one of the latest flights back to NY and it still leaves late afternoon.

again dealers in general would be happy to stay if they were selling lots of coins but not interested in sticking around to just be a display for peoples enjoyment of just viewing interesting coins and spending the afternoon wondering around a bourse...

7Jaguars · November 8, 2015 3:19AM

I had an enjoyable and productive time of it Saturday - I was there from 1000AM until about 1245. There were quite a few empty tables on some rows even at just after 1000. DIdn't really matter to me as I had other business. I don't even buy coins anymore (hardly) but did have some very good book purchases and visited our hosts and NGC (the later packed up and left at 1100am sharp!

mheffner2 · November 8, 2015 4:05AM

I went this morning hoping to catch some of the show action and speak with auction houses & grading companies. JOKE WAS ON ME! There were 12 or so dealers, about as many browsers, no auction houses or grading companies and much to my 8 year old's disappointment, no Kids Corner (it had been abandoned). I'm strictly speaking as a casual collector, I know these shows are a different thing to dealers, and they would know better than to try and have a Coin Expo experience on a Sunday, but wow... what crap! A waste of a drive, parking and more so, time. Whitman should not promote this show as having Sunday hours... why bother? Do the couple of dealers that took their time and energy of showing up a favor and just let them get the heck home so they can not waste their time too. I'm sure the Convention Center would appreciate the extra day to change their light bulbs. I'm not the collector that is making any of these dealers wealthy, but if Whitman gives a couple dozen of visitors like me a bad experience, it's surely not helping anyone's cause. I'll be back, but it certainly won't be on a Sunday.

Sorry for the negativity, but I needed to sound off on this one.

Unknown · November 8, 2015 4:28AM

This content has been removed.

Shortgapbob · November 8, 2015 4:38AM

Originally posted by: MidLifeCrisis

Originally posted by: Shortgapbob
The market is selective at present, especially in certain areas

When has this ever NOT been the case?

Exactly. There is plenty of business to be done in this market, as in any market. It may not be as robust as 3-5 years ago, but there is business happening.

cc99999 · November 8, 2015 5:20AM

Well, I just got back from Baltimore.

Here are my initials thoughts:

http://www.coinweek.com/video-news/cool-coins-whitman-expo-november-2015-video-515/

epcjimi1 · November 8, 2015 7:27AM

Originally posted by: cc99999
Well, I just got back from Baltimore.

Here are my initials thoughts:

http://www.coinweek.com/video-news/cool-coins-whitman-expo-november-2015-video-515/

LLOLOL

It's a coinweek promo vid of dealers.

The HJB fingernails. I think a static zoom in - out of the coin on a surface would be better than what was depicted.

MHO

RichieURich · November 8, 2015 7:34AM

Baltimore used to require dealers to stay on Sunday. Most did not do that. We, however, did, and of the many, many Sundays, only one time did we ever have more sales dollars than our cost of staying an extra day. Sales dollars, not profits, so even that day was unprofitable. Since Sundays became optional, we stopped doing Sundays at Baltimore. We typically stayed open until around 3 pm, but usually sold nothing after about 1 pm. Now that I have moved to Florida, I have to catch a flight, or stay over another night. So we packed up at 1 pm. I arrived home at 11:30 pm, so even if I could have gotten a later flight, add 10+ hours, and that is when I arrive home. I would prefer to arrive home earlier than 3 am or so, so I don't stay until the bitter end on Saturday. If I had, I doubt that I would have done any more sales after 1 pm, based on prior experience. For shows that I must fly to attend, I will continue to select my flight based on how long I think I should attend the show, what flights are available, and the resultant profitability of the business.

ms70 · November 8, 2015 8:40AM

Originally posted by: mheffner2 Whitman should not promote this show as having Sunday hours... why bother?

Then the same thing will happen on Saturday.

jdimmick · November 8, 2015 9:05AM

I went on sat this time , because my wife wanted to come. Wasn't a problem for me, I was able to get done what I wanted to get done. Yeah some of the dealers had packed up earlier, but who cares, most of the dealers I buy from have web sites and will send me a coin if I want to see it any how. I don't blame them , most of the business at these type of shows is done pre show, thurs and fri. Kind of similar to me at our local shows which are sat and sun, by the time sun after about 1 , nothing happens, I like packing up and getting on with things.

As far as how the show was, I was able to sell 9 out of the 10 coins I brought this time. But I buy knowing about what I can get, so I wasn't overly optimistic and had stuff priced fair where it will move, wasn't a problem getting rid of them. Some were marginal quality to decent. I only brought the 4-5k and up stuff to sell, the others I run an ebay. I learned that a while back from a collection of stuff I bought, I ran around spending hours of time trying to show this dealer that dealer . Most like first shot , so after about the third showing, dealers are less opt to want to do business because stuff is picked over.

I confidentially talked to a few dealers who have been in business a long time, and who I respect a great deal, and they told me the market is quite different even from a year ago.

The best part of the show for me was getting to be second in line after show opening at the PCGS table, as I had three big submissions to get turned in.

mheffner2 · November 8, 2015 9:22AM

I'd agree. Just venting in my post... I'd love for it to be kicking on Sunday, and if it was in the past I'm sure the motivation to set-up would be there. If I had to make a business decision to stay or leave, I'd leave if the traffic wasn't there.

amwldcoin · November 8, 2015 10:50AM

Originally posted by: RichieURich

Baltimore used to require dealers to stay on Sunday. Most did not do that. We, however, did, and of the many, many Sundays, only one time did we ever have more sales dollars than our cost of staying an extra day. Sales dollars, not profits, so even that day was unprofitable. Since Sundays became optional, we stopped doing Sundays at Baltimore. We typically stayed open until around 3 pm, but usually sold nothing after about 1 pm. Now that I have moved to Florida, I have to catch a flight, or stay over another night. So we packed up at 1 pm. I arrived home at 11:30 pm, so even if I could have gotten a later flight, add 10+ hours, and that is when I arrive home. I would prefer to arrive home earlier than 3 am or so, so I don't stay until the bitter end on Saturday. If I had, I doubt that I would have done any more sales after 1 pm, based on prior experience. For shows that I must fly to attend, I will continue to select my flight based on how long I think I should attend the show, what flights are available, and the resultant profitability of the business.

While I also don't stay Sundays anymore. Ya never know! I sold an 81 and 82 Proof Trade Dollars there on Sunday 10 or so years ago!

I did stay for a Sunday last year and it was a wash.

What is happening at the Baltimore show?

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